Rookie QB or Veteran QB for "Next Season"??? (I didn't bump this, but I ended up being wrong anyway....)

[mistertim]

15 minutes ago, CapsSkins said:

 

😂😂 bud just admit you're wrong. Everyone knows he's not the 3rd string guy.

 

Er...the Raiders don't seem to know this.

 

https://www.raiders.com/team/depth-chart

[mistertim]

14 minutes ago, TheShredder said:

Allen doesn't beat out Heinicke in a fair competition from what's on tape.  Mariota isn't a franchise QB and doesn't get trade value because TEN overdrafted him 5 years ago.  Likely a 4th rounder tops to bring in competition, however LV could cut him to free up $10.7M in cap.  You wouldn't trade for him IMO.

 

I wouldn't give up any more for Mariota than we did for Allen. A 5th max. And I still wouldn't be all that enthusiastic about it because we already have multiple mediocre QBs on the team. Adding another one doesn't have a multiplier effect of how good they are or anything.

[TheShredder]

With the defense success, I just don't get how you take a step forward using a 1st round pick at the bottom 3rd of the round and reasonably expect that to help the WFT.  That's a waste of a pick where you can have a much higher success rate utilizing it to fill another void.  If they'd draft a LT, LBer, or WR they check off boxes far more often than not. 

[Est.1974]

Chiefs now got Henne in the game. No idea if he closes the game out for KC, but it may not end well. So, all debate about the #1 QB berth aside for us, Heinicke and Allen must be retained for next season. Depth, and more depth. 

[seantaylor=god]

I know it would be dumb for the Texans to trade him, but there is a whole lot of reporting now that he will not play for them. 
 

If I was Watson I’d be trying to get to SF, Miami, Colts, or another good team.

If Houston wants high draft picks, we can’t really compete. But maybe we could do a combo of picks and players? We have a surplus of DT talent that we can’t afford to keep in 2 years. What about a trade of this years 1st (19), next years first, and Jonathan Allen? 

[FootballZombie]

Step 1 of D Wat requesting a trade looks imminent.

 

Now we need to get our GM situation completed yesterday and figure out what we are willing to give for him.

 

It would have to start with 2 1sts and likely includes a D-lineman. I'd also throw in a 3rd and their choice of any QB on our roster.

 

I'd go up to 3 1st, but you'll lose some sweeteners.

 

 

I know they need to move Watt as well due to cap constraints, but any deal that tries to include him and Wattson is madden territory.

[kingdaddy]

6 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

I know, but I noted in my replies that Tannehill is a complete outlier in that regard. Assuming it will happen again is fool's gold because it really hasn't in almost any other circumstance (Jim Plunkett notwithstanding). Generally if you go out and get a proven mediocre NFL QB you're going to get...mediocre production out of them. 

Agreed, sorry I didnt see your earlier comments. Hey, does Doug Williams count in your debate???

We salvaged his career and helped him go to historic heights?

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

 

 

[evmiii]

D. Watson isn’t going anywhere.  They will hire a coach he wants and they will press on.

[kingdaddy]

Brees looks like crap against TB compared to how Heinicke had his way with them. If your RR you gotta really look at this game and consider how good TH was, especially with such limited experience and preparation. TH has something and we need to look hard at him.

[Skinsinparadise]

4 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

Brees looks like crap against TB compared to how Heinicke had his way with them. If your RR you gotta really look at this game and consider how good TH was, especially with such limited experience and preparation. TH has something and we need to look hard at him.

From what I’ve heard the main concern about Heinicke is size/frame and ability to withstand the punishment of an NFL season.

[FootballZombie]

3 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

Brees looks like crap against TB compared to how Heinicke had his way with them. If your RR you gotta really look at this game and consider how good TH was, especially with such limited experience and preparation. TH has something and we need to look hard at him.

 

Not really comparable.

 

Brees is playing a division opponent... for the third time this year. Pretty sure they are some of the most well prepared players on the planet at this point. 

 

Nothing from this game should effect how you evaluate Taylor.

[Koolblue13]

Who cares if Heinicke is fragile. Allen is fragile too. Draft a QB that's mobile and like those two and smart and sit him. He'll get a little play time. If our QB 1&2 get hurt and miss time and go back and forth so what. We went to the playoffs and almost won with our QB4.

[FootballZombie]

22 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Who cares if Heinicke is fragile.

 

the head coach who puts the game plan together

the GM who has to carry an extra position player to make up for his fragility

the guy signing the checks

the fans who come to see their favorite players

The DC of the opposing team who no longer has to game plan against your #1 option

 

 

Regardless of what a player can or can not do, the single greatest ability for any player in any sport is availability. Cant help your team from a hospital bed. A guy who is constantly injured is a guy who gameplans himself, and there is no place for that at the top of an NFL roster. He would just be a cap drain and a wasted roster spot. It is the same story for mobile QBs that don't protect themselves during a game. eventually you will get hurt, and if you get hurt, you are not helping anyone.

 

We have seen that first hand with less than durable players, RG3 being the biggest example. Him and the LEGENDARY comb of course.

 

Edit: I know jack squat about Taylor's previous injuries, so I don't know if they are flukey or a result of him being reckless, the above was an "in general statement"

Edited January 18, 2021 by FootballZombie

[kingdaddy]

22 minutes ago, FootballZombie said:

 

Not really comparable.

 

Brees is playing a division opponent... for the third time this year. Pretty sure they are some of the most well prepared players on the planet at this point. 

 

Nothing from this game should effect how you evaluate Taylor.

Point noted..but Henicke has wheels and throws the ball downfield. Brees is not much more than a statue/game manager compared to what Heinicke looked like.

[Koolblue13]

1 minute ago, FootballZombie said:

 

the head coach who puts the game plan together

the GM who has to carry an extra position player to make up for his fragility

the guy signing the checks

the fans who come to see their favorite players

The DC of the opposing team who no longer has to game plan against your #1 option

 

 

Regardless of what a player can or can not do, the single greatest ability for any player in any sport is availability. Cant help your team from a hospital bed. A guy who is constantly injured is a guy who gameplans himself, and there is no place for that at the top of an NFL roster. He would just be a cap drain and a wasted roster spot. It is the same story for mobile QBs that don't protect themselves during a game. eventually you will get hurt, and if you get hurt, you are not helping anyone.

 

We have seen that first hand with less than durable players, RG3 being the biggest example. Him and the LEGENDARY comb of course.

I agree with all of that. My point is we'd have other similar options and a rookie will see limited protected time with Heinicke and Allen in front of him.

Just now, kingdaddy said:

Point noted..but Henicke has wheels and throws the ball downfield. Brees is not much more than a statue/game manager compared to what Heinicke looked like.

Wait, are you saying that Heinicke can make more happen than Brees? I just want to make sure, because that's what it sounds like.

[Skinsinparadise]

45 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Who cares if Heinicke is fragile. Allen is fragile too. Draft a QB that's mobile and like those two and smart and sit him. He'll get a little play time. If our QB 1&2 get hurt and miss time and go back and forth so what. We went to the playoffs and almost won with our QB4.

It sounds like they might care that he’s fragile. I wouldn’t care if it was  just random fans like us concerned. 

[Koolblue13]

3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

It sounds like they might care that he’s fragile. I wouldn’t care if it was  just random fans like us concerned. 

Yeah, I'm being overly simplimatic because it's really late and this has been a long day of QB talk. Chiefs won without Mahommes

[KDawg]

To be fair: we don’t know if he’s fragile. We assume it based on his size and the fact he banged his shoulder up in the Tampa game. His other major injury was when he required surgery because he sliced his leg open breaking into his own home because he was locked out when he was in Minnesota. 
 

His size should bring the concern of him being an injury risk. But he hasn’t been in the league long enough to know. 
 

He did have an elbow injury with Carolina.

 

His other injury was a concussion.

 

So evidence DOES point to have having some injury concerns. But we don’t know for sure yet.

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

5 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Yeah, I'm being overly simplimatic because it's really late and this has been a long day of QB talk. Chiefs won without Mahommes

 
lol Mahomes though left with a lead. I’ve seen plenty of Chad Henne who is a punchline in South Florida for his inept play. The dude isn’t the answer for any team but he did fine for one day.  😃

[Koolblue13]

10 minutes ago, KDawg said:

To be fair: we don’t know if he’s fragile. We assume it based on his size and the fact he banged his shoulder up in the Tampa game. His other major injury was when he required surgery because he sliced his leg open breaking into his own home because he was locked out when he was in Minnesota. 
 

His size should bring the concern of him being an injury risk. But he hasn’t been in the league long enough to know. 
 

He did have an elbow injury with Carolina.

 

His other injury was a concussion.

 

So evidence DOES point to have having some injury concerns. But we don’t know for sure yet.

 

 

I use to have to break into my basement window as a kid all the time. I'm no athlete and not one injury. <but the elbow, and the concussion, he get's injured a lot. 

 

Maybe being a priority in an offense he can add some bulk, but he is an injury about to happen.

3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 
lol Mahomes though left with a lead. I’ve seen plenty of Chad Henne who is a punchline in South Florida for his inept play. The dude isn’t the answer for any team but he did fine for one day.  😃

Fair enough lol

[Skinsinparadise]

9 minutes ago, KDawg said:

To be fair: we don’t know if he’s fragile.

 

 

 

I'd be inclined to run with it all being a fluke if I didn't hear one of the beat guys (I think it was Finlay if I recall but not 100% sure) say the people he talked to with the team are worried about the dude's durability.  What us clowns think of his durability is irrelevant.  They are the ones who have him in the building -- especially Rivera and Turner who have had multiple tours of duty with him.  I am one of the suckers who buys he can be the real goods based on a 1.25 game sample.   But hearing that the people within the club have concerns about his ability to stay healthy got my attention. 

 

That's part of the reason why I asked you a week or so ago, can the dude bulk up to avoid this being a pattern?  

 

 

https://www.charlotteobserver.com/sports/nfl/carolina-panthers/article231479928.html

“Getting hurt” probably doesn’t do Heinicke’s injury justice — he tore every ligament in his (non-throwing) left elbow and partially tore his triceps.

Heinicke still remembers.

He remembers the hit, hearing a pop in his elbow and then the radiating pain.

He remembers returning to the field several possessions later, sporting a black elbow brace, and finishing the game injured.

He remembers the aftermath, and struggling to do “the little things,” as he described it. Things like sleeping, showering, getting dressed.

  

On another note, I watched the Alex Smith 60 Minutes segment, he didn't come off like a dude who will retire.  I guess will see. 

 

 

 

[KDawg]

3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I'd be inclined to run with it all being a fluke if I didn't hear one of the beat guys (I think it was Finlay if I recall but not 100% sure) say the people he talked to with the team are worried about the dude's durability.  What us clowns think of his durability is irrelevant.  They are the ones who have him in the building -- especially Rivera and Turner who have had multiple tours of duty with him.  I am one of the suckers who buys he can be the real goods based on a 1.25 game sample.   But hearing that the people within the club have concerns about his ability to stay healthy got my attention. 

 

That's part of the reason why I asked you a week or so ago, can the dude bulk up to avoid this being a pattern?  

 

 

https://www.charlotteobserver.com/sports/nfl/carolina-panthers/article231479928.html

“Getting hurt” probably doesn’t do Heinicke’s injury justice — he tore every ligament in his (non-throwing) left elbow and partially tore his triceps.

Heinicke still remembers.

He remembers the hit, hearing a pop in his elbow and then the radiating pain.

He remembers returning to the field several possessions later, sporting a black elbow brace, and finishing the game injured.

He remembers the aftermath, and struggling to do “the little things,” as he described it. Things like sleeping, showering, getting dressed.

  

To be fair again, though, their history with him was a significant elbow injury that was substantial and now an ac joint sprain. So if I were in building I’d think the same. But it’s not solid it’s the case.

 

Having said all of that... evidence points to it being an accurate concern. 

[Skinsinparadise]

Just now, KDawg said:

To be fair again, though, their history with him was a significant elbow injury that was substantial and now an ac joint sprain. So if I were in building I’d think the same. But it’s not solid it’s the case.

 

Having said all of that... evidence points to it being an accurate concern. 

 

I've worked out plenty in my life but am far from a body builder.  In his shoes, I'd try to figure out something in the weight room, assuming there is something that can be done. 

[PartyPosse]

1 hour ago, kingdaddy said:

Brees looks like crap against TB compared to how Heinicke had his way with them. If your RR you gotta really look at this game and consider how good TH was, especially with such limited experience and preparation. TH has something and we need to look hard at him.

Brees has been QBing since the Eisenhower administration and has 12 broken ribs.

 

So sure, I guess Taylor has a brighter future than the 43 year old broken man.