A New Start! (the Reboot) The Front Office, Ownership, & Coaching Staff Thread

[tshile]

Snyder has created an organization where it is impossible to succeed.  
 

correct me if I’m wrong but I believe in his entire tenure the 4 years of Gibbs were the best. There were flaws and they weren’t elite but our beloved HOF coach who did it with 3 different QB’s and being a master of halftime adjustments, did the best and it was OK. Z

 

There are, at any given time, only 32 NFL head coach jobs in the entire world. 
 

It is not Ron’s fault this team is a dumpster fire. And it’s not his fault by virtue of taking the job. Anyone and everyone would do that unless they somehow had a better option that multi millions a year for a job only 31 people in the world can have.

 

I wasn’t happy they hired him. I wasn’t impressed. But I’ve seen why he’s so well respected - I get why he never has a team implode (unless it happens here) - I understand that he gets people to work hard for him cause they buy in on what he’s doing. 
 

I do not think he’s a great coach. But in an odd way he’s doing a great job for the **** hand he was dealt. None of this is his fault. Even the DEA investigation is silly cause I’m sure if Ron knew he was doing that he sure as **** wouldn’t have brought him here. I mean that one is bogus. And nothing else is his fault. 
 

I accepted a while ago that it was totally unfair to destroy a person cause it didn’t work out when they were here. It never works out for anyone that ever comes here. 

[Zim489]

I think the absolution of Ron of all fault is absolutely wild. He could have done just about anything he wanted. 

[Riggo#44]

2 minutes ago, Zim489 said:

I think the absolution of Ron of all fault is absolutely wild. He could have done just about anything he wanted. 

Could he? You're ignoring the rumors and reports that a. Snyder closed the purse strings after the Wentz acquisition and b. Wentz was a standard Snyder move.

[Andre The Giant]

 

[Zim489]

1 hour ago, Riggo#44 said:

Could he? You're ignoring the rumors and reports that a. Snyder closed the purse strings after the Wentz acquisition and b. Wentz was a standard Snyder move.

I don’t believe the Wentz portion of that report or it’s greatly exaggerated. No owner is clamoring for Carson Wentz. The Owner wanted the qb is such an easy card to play by the football staff especially when said staff is completely reeling. 

[Riggo#44]

Just now, Zim489 said:

I don’t believe the Wentz portion of that report or it’s greatly exaggerated. No owner is clamoring for Carson Wentz. The Owner wanted the qb is such an easy card to play by the football staff especially when said staff is completely reeling. 

Because that's so against Snyder's MO...and since when does Dan do anything intelligent?

[tshile]

1 hour ago, Zim489 said:

I think the absolution of Ron of all fault is absolutely wild. He could have done just about anything he wanted. 

Think of it less as

ron didn’t do anything wrong

 

and more as

it didn’t really matter what he did, it would fail one way or the other

[SkinsFTW]

1 hour ago, Zim489 said:

I don’t believe the Wentz portion of that report or it’s greatly exaggerated. No owner is clamoring for Carson Wentz. 

 

No owner was clamoring for Jeff George either, well except for one. 

[88Comrade2000]

Even if Dan played a role in Carson coming here; Ron went along with it.

This team is Ron’s and he built nothing. We aren’t any better in 3 years and probably are worse.

 

Ron was seduced by having the power. He made his bed and has to live with it.

 

Here’s the state of the Nfc East; which could have 3 teams in the playoffs.

 

Philly 6-0, NY 5-1, Dallas 4-2

 

Philly is only 3 wins from 9. NY is 4. Dallas is 5.  Frankly, all 3 should have at least 9 wins when all is said and done. The road to the SuperBowl in the nfc , likely goes thru Philly.   Frankly, going 0-6 is a possibility for us; in the division.

 

We are stuck with the misery of Ron. Then likely stuck with the next guy before any potential ownership change. 
 

The new owner will have to rebuild the fanbase. After the initial joy, fanbase will go back to what it us; until they prove they can win consistently. If the losing continues under the next guy, they won’t be rebuilding that fanbase.  Also, depending when that new guy is approved; they maybe stuck with incumbent coach for the year. So, their rebuild really couldn’t start until

year 2.

 

 

[BrentMeisterGeneral]

11 hours ago, CapsSkins said:

Everyone agrees Snyder sucks but let's not use him as an excuse to remove all accountability from Rivera. The vast majority of this **** show is Ron's fault.

 

Preach CS, the amount of people willing to let Ron slide because his boss is Dan Snyder is alarming

[Darrell Green Fan]

14 hours ago, FLSkinz83 said:

 

Let me repeat, if you have something that will get rid of him, then do it.   But if all you have is stuff that won't move the needle, I'm not interested.   All that stuff does is hurt the franchise.

 

I guarantee you that ESPN could have done a story on most owners and found dirt.    

 

You have an amazing ability to have bad takes on a consistent basis.  

[Skinsinparadise]

7 hours ago, SkinsFTW said:

 

No owner was clamoring for Jeff George either, well except for one. 

 

Good point.  Dan has had some strange man crushes on QBs.  The fact that the dude barely says a word but one of his only times he spoke this year he goes "we finally have a QB" adds to my suspicion.  If Dan is associated with a personnel move and its proven false -- this would be the first time.  I'd say listening to the reporters who wrote this story at a minimum more than one source told them Dan drove the deal, these dudes, the key writer won a Pulitzer Prize weren't flying crap against the wall.  Maybe those sources were lying to them but that woud be the first -- though its certainly possible that Dan finally after 23 years gets vindicated on a personnel story.

 

Those who hate Rivera, I've noticed hate the Wentz-Dan story the most -- I gather they want to add to the Ron has been a very very very bad boy narrative.  But on my end I don't absolve Ron, his finger prints are on this for sure too -- heck even if he didn't do it the fact that he wants to double down on the move publicly is good enough for me to saddle him with Wentz, too no matter what. 

 

As for Wentz wasn't a splash who was left that would make a splash at that juncture, Trubisky?  Context matters. 

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/redskins/daniel-snyder-washington-redskins-owner-still-struggles-to-find-formula-for-success/2014/01/04/5d86bfa4-74a4-11e3-bc6b-712d770c3715_story.html

 

In 2007, he had his heart set on drafting quarterback Brady Quinn out of Notre Dame. “It took a week or so to convince him that we shouldn’t do that,” one former staffer said.

 

 

One constant theme of Snyder’s ownership from the beginning has been complaints from staff about the owner’s involvement with players and the relationships he cultivates with them. Even as he ceded a significant amount of authority to Shanahan these past four years, Snyder, like many NFL owners, will never be entirely absent from big decisions, others warn.

 

“New coaches come in excited because they think they have the support of an owner who wants to win. But they soon find out Snyder is all about making a big splash,” one former assistant coach said.

Two of his more celebrated coaching hires were Shanahan and Schottenheimer. Both were given control of team personnel, something Snyder is said to have regretted in the case of Schottenheimer, who was fired after just one season.

 

“At the end of the year, Dan told me he wasn’t having any fun. He wanted control back,” one former employee said. “That, I think, was at the heart of the thing. It’s like working for a plumbing company and always looking over your shoulder and hearing, ‘Don’t do that with the elbow joint.’ Unless you’re a plumber, don’t tell the plumber how to do his job.”

 

“It’s hard to say that anyone can restrain him when he wants to do something,” said one former Snyder employee, who’d worked at Snyder Communications, of the Redskins owner. “You cannot stop impulsive people from doing what they want to do.”

Edited October 17, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[BringMetheHeadofBruceAllen]

14 hours ago, FLSkinz83 said:

 

Let me repeat, if you have something that will get rid of him, then do it.   But if all you have is stuff that won't move the needle, I'm not interested.   All that stuff does is hurt the franchise.

 

I guarantee you that ESPN could have done a story on most owners and found dirt.    

 

I wold argue that Snyder has done more to hurt this franchise than all of the other factors combined over the years, because he's the only constant. Everyone who comes here fails and has their reputation ruined. I think if Snyder was gone then people would no longer hold this franchise in such low esteem, because everyone recognizes that all of this incompetence and failure was Snyder's fault...he's the one in charge.

 

True that ESPN could have done a story on most owners and found dirt. Billionaires are not angels and only became billionaires by being utterly ruthless, inhumane, and greedy. I don't think anyone doubts that The Four Letter could have found dirt on any or all of them. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if other NFL owners start coming under more scrutiny as a result of this...which I'm sure will be a topic at the owners' meeting on Tuesday!

 

But the fact remains that ESPN did NOT go after any of the other owners, and that's because there haven't been 40+ sex pest complaints in addition to all the other drama. And this is just for ONE TEAM. Think about the sheer number of scandals this team is involved in...they would be enough for the entire NFL normally, but for all of them to occur with one team? It's no wonder ESPN would investigate. Where there's smoke, there's fire...

 

(BTW, 'sex pest' is the term used in the UK for sexual harassers...I think it more accurately describes their nefarious actions)

Edited October 17, 2022 by BringMetheHeadofBruceAllen

[DCF]

The thing about Snyder calling to grab Wentz, is I think both Ron and journalists have a way to claim they're correct on this. Snyder could have told Ron he really likes Wentz, and then Ron watches a bunch of tape, does his due diligence and decides to select Wentz with the owners input in mind. Which wouldn't sound so bad on other teams, but this owner suggesting any player to his coach STILL, deserves all the scrutiny. So then Ron tells us all he was the one that watched film and made the call, which isn't a lie, it's just leaving out Dans input, and how aggressive or not aggressive he was with his "suggestion".

[Darrell Green Fan]

Not sure who had the idea but I have zero doubt RR was on board with the acquisition of Wentz.  Given his other options (Mitch T etc) he probably thought he was the best option.  And while it is totally true that nobody has success under Snyder this is the team he built, these are the coaches he selected so this is mostly on him.  

[Skinsinparadise]

10 minutes ago, DCF said:

The thing about Snyder calling to grab Wentz, is I think both Ron and journalists have a way to claim they're correct on this. Snyder could have told Ron he really likes Wentz, and then Ron watches a bunch of tape, does his due diligence and decides to select Wentz with the owners input in mind. Which wouldn't sound so bad on other teams, but this owner suggesting any player to his coach STILL, deserves all the scrutiny. So then Ron tells us all he was the one that watched film and made the call, which isn't a lie, it's just leaving out Dans input, and how aggressive or not aggressive he was with his "suggestion".

 

Agree. What do we know based on past stories

 

A.  Dan obsessed with Qbs.  Thinks that's the resason why they haven't won.  Cerrato talked about it not long ago saying that's what he and Dan thought.

 

B.  Dan's spot that he interferes historically is QB.  Jeff George.  Fell in love with RG3, though Shanny was with him.   Ramsey acccording to a story was him.  According to Keim he would tell anyone who listened that Haskins was the best player in college football.  McNabb was driven by hiim. 

 

C.  the dude is Gretta Garbo yet in his first public statement in eons he says "we finaly have a QB."

 

D.  A pulitzer prize writer who had 30 plus sources and wrote a story against one of the law suit happy people in the country wrote that Dan did.

 

So that's a lot to ignore.  I would say at a minimum Dan was more than just a dude that signed off on the deal, I'd put money that he was beyond jazzed about it -- his public statement on this alone proves that point.  So I gather he was somewhat involved.  Did he drive this?  The writers said yes.  I don't know but I suspect his involvement was more than just Atta Boy Ron!

Edited October 17, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[DCF]

20 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Good point.  Dan has had some strange man crushes on QBs.  The fact that the dude barely says a word but one of his on;y times he spoke this year he goes "why finally have a QB" adds to my suspicion.  If Dan is associated with a personnel move and its proven false -- this would be the first time.  I'd say listening to the reporters who wrote this story at a minimum more than one source told them Dan drove the deal.  Maybe those sources were lying but that woud be the first -- though its certainly possible that Dan finally after 23 years gets vindicated on a personnel story.

 

Those who hate Rivera, hate the Wentz-Dan story I gather they want to add to the Ron is been a very very very bad by narrative.  But on my end I don't absolve /Ron, his finger printers are on this for sure -- heck if he didn't do it the fact that he wants to double down on the move publicly is good enough for me to saddle him with Wentz, too no matter what. 

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/redskins/daniel-snyder-washington-redskins-owner-still-struggles-to-find-formula-for-success/2014/01/04/5d86bfa4-74a4-11e3-bc6b-712d770c3715_story.html

 

In 2007, he had his heart set on drafting quarterback Brady Quinn out of Notre Dame. “It took a week or so to convince him that we shouldn’t do that,” one former staffer said.

Agree with this, and think everyone is trying to make this black and white, like either it was Dan that made the call, or it was Ron. I can easily see a situation where Dan kept providing Ron with his input and suggestions on Wentz, which possibly became more frequent as other qbs left the table. Then Ron (being the expert player evaluator he is), did some research and chose  a qb he thought was both capable and is what the owner wanted. 

 

I believe they both had a hand in this that made each of them feel as though they made the real call. My real question is would Ron have given up those picks for Wentz, had he never heard a word from Snyder about it? 

 

With his earned reputation I really don't think Dan now comes at his coaches with straight up demands, at least not right away. I think he repeatedly lets his opinion and suggestions be known to the head coach, they have meetings and talk a lot about what he wants, and it gets louder and louder until something happens. With the evidence we have I suspect it was something closer to that. Ron did his research and still feels like it was his call. Dan did his pushing and feels like it was his.

Edited October 17, 2022 by DCF

[Skinsinparadise]

13 minutes ago, DCF said:

Agree with this, and think everyone is trying to make this black and white, like either it was Dan that made the call, or it was Ron. I can easily see a situation where Dan kept providing Ron with his input and suggestions on Wentz, which possibly became more frequent as other qbs left the table. Then Ron (being the expert player evaluator he is), did some research and chose  a qb he thought was both capable and is what the owner wanted. 

 

I believe they both had a hand in this that made each of them feel as though they made the real call. My real question is would Ron have given up those picks for Wentz, had he never heard a word from Snyder about it? 

 

Yeah that's sort of my guess too.  I do believe Ron was involved.   I also believe Dan was involved.  As for overpaying for a toy that he's excited to get -- that fits Dan's history to a tee.  I guess this was like a Lennon-Mccartney operation so to speak with both having their stamp on this. 

 

I know it bugs those who hate Rivera and want this to be described as 100% Ron.   But I don't think it matters if the point is taking shots at Ron -- Ron's public statements alone are damning as for Wentz.  so for those who want to level their angst at Ron, they have enough to do it, still.

 

The whole Ron-Wentz component could still take another turn.  It wouldn't shock me if they start winning a little.  The Ron losing at the beginning of the season and then things pick up has been part of his coaching narrative -- it can happen here, too again.  Wentz also might play better when he's back.  I am not saying I predict it happens but to me its not some wild pie in the sky theory.

 

@Zim489for example you said all off seaon that Ron isn't good enough to win but not bad enough to lose. So you are stuck in purgatory. Now do you see him as a loser or do you think the streak to mediocrity can still happen? 

 

For me I think Ron is a good guy, he's been a decent, yes winning coach in his career, he won more games than lost in Carolina, 4 playoff appearances, twice coach of the year.  Some here act like he's the new Zorn.  I don't think he is.  He's made mistakes but I don't think all of a sudden he's a moron.  I mention @Zim489 because now I want what he wants which is a collapse season, not just for the draft but more so to put pressure on Dan. 

 

Part of me wishes right now Rivera is as stupid as some here think he is -- but I do think @Zim489 original idea about Rivera is correct which is he tends to bring enough to find that mediocre season.  He thinks that's his ceiling,, considering his career, its clearly not his ceiling.  But maybe it is here. Even Gibbs was below 500 for Dan. 

 

It doesn't feel that they climb back now.  But it also didn't feel that way in Ron's other 2 seasons but then all of a sudden they started winning.  I don't want that to happen this time again.

Edited October 17, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[BrentMeisterGeneral]

4 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

Not sure who had the idea but I have zero doubt RR was on board with the acquisition of Wentz.  Given his other options (Mitch T etc) he probably thought he was the best option.  And while it is totally true that nobody has success under Snyder this is the team he built, these are the coaches he selected so this is mostly on him.  

 

100% and for clarity these were also RR's choices:

 

- Scott Turner

- Jack Del Rio

- A hefty portion of Carolina's coaching staff

- The entire O Line bar Chase Roullier (the good one)

- 1st Round Pick, Jamie Davis

- 3rd Round Pick, Dyami Brown

- Kyle Allen (5th Round pick, trade)

- William Jackson III becoming one of the highest earners

- Dax Milne as punt returner

- David Mayo and John Bostic as MLB's

- Rushing Curtis Samuel back several times leading to an aggravation of an injury

 

There's loads more, but Carson Wentz is the $28m cherry on top of the disastrous cake he's been baking for over 2 years

 

We are so far from contending potentially even further than before he came in, less Elite players and no hope of attracting any, what a mess

 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

I’d imagine every owner without a QB engages with the top brass on how they are going to fix that.  Owner involvement on the QB position is not an issue isolated to Snyder.  Getting the QB position wrong and overpaying to do so is a hallmark Snyder move though.

[Skintime]

Nevermind

Edited October 17, 2022 by Skintime

[dyst]

Anytime its between “Dan did something stupid” vs “I doubt Dan would be that stupid”, it’s usually always the first one 

[DCF]

30 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I’d imagine every owner without a QB engages with the top brass on how they are going to fix that.  Owner involvement on the QB position is not an issue isolated to Snyder.  Getting the QB position wrong and overpaying to do so is a hallmark Snyder move though.

I believe this happens on a general sense with varying degrees of interest/involvement by the owner. Everything we know about Dan from the past suggests he involves himself heavily with quarterback decisions. He knows that hasn't worked out in the past, and knows he has a public reputation for it, and so he should be at the end of the spectrum where he just nods his head when the coach tells him anything, and then evaluate his performance overall after 2-4 years. That appears to still not be who he is though, and so it's impossible to pinpoint exactly who shares the most blame in this awful trade, but we know they both do for sure (Dan and Ron).

[Chris 44]

1999  v  2022    Granted none of us are getting any younger but I seriously think the dude may have issues.

Edited October 17, 2022 by Chris 44

[Spaceman Spiff]

Good morning to everyone except Dan Snyder.