A New Start! (the Reboot) The Front Office, Ownership, & Coaching Staff Thread

[bh32]

I just don't understand why everyone is up in arms over who was hired first..Are you guys just so paranoid that you think every move they make is gonna fail because it has in the past? Just let everything fall in place and see what happens.

[Thinking Skins]

@thesubmittedonei don't know how much we've discussed this particular topic. I've had some discussions with you about gms but I think it was wizards related.

 

Anyway, i get what you're saying but for so many years the problem for me and much of the fan base was the lack of a GM here. We had Vinny as whatever his role was and i remember that 2008 press conference where he said he was basically the gm, and i was on one hand like then why not call yourself the gm but on the other hand he did say he had final input and these were his decisions (something he later said wasn't true and the 2008 draft was Dan, particularly round 2).

 

But I'm getting away from my point. People can quarrel on what it's called or who has power or these things. There was actually a Carolina guy on Galdi's show Tuesday saying Hurney thinks coaches should have final say because they're the ones who have to set the culture, but kinda dismissed it because it shouldn't come up too often. I think I've evolved on this because in the 90s with Norv and Charley i thought Charley should win. But if Norv knows QBs and can tell how bad Heath was and wanted no parts, Casserly shouldn't be the one to say invent an offense for him. Ultimately, neither guy was that good and I never found out who picked Heath. 

 

Back to the structure question though. I've said many times that i think a coach should get a minimum of 3 years and a gm should get a minimum of 3 coaches,i.e 9 years. Part of this is just the reason you name, coaches think short term and gms are supposed to think long term. But there isn't always a dominance because of who hired whom. In fact it's really hard to understand how front offices are structured because it's not just a simple inequality. It may be a thing where scouts handle regions and conferences and are more knowledgeable but don't have the ability to say grade 10 players based on their mistakes and say which ones are good vs bad or how coachable a player is or these nonmeasurable qualities. But coaches can't watch 500 or so players when only 20 are going to show up on the 90 man roster. So there's some balance. 

 

But i agree with you about Snyder. That's the elephant in the room and i really feel like the guy we need is AJ Smith or somebody who just hates Snyder and doesn't care about including him in the process. In fact i want a gm to exclude him and get fired for it but it may lead us to don't wins first. I really wish Kyle Smith had said no to drafting Haskins and just been fired because this 2 years too late stuff doesn't help and it gives room for people to say "well, that was then but now he's changed". 

 

But in the end I have to remind myself that this is just a game for me. No matter how bad this team is, i can't let it make me a bad father, son, or husband or person. So I've just increased my outlets to get away when they go crazy again. That's why I run during games and listen to audio books more in the off-season. 

 

 

[madden lot]

Shh shh everyone, @-JB- is sleeping!

[TSO]

1 hour ago, Thinking Skins said:

But in the end I have to remind myself that this is just a game for me. No matter how bad this team is, i can't let it make me a bad father, son, or husband or person. So I've just increased my outlets to get away when they go crazy again. That's why I run during games and listen to audio books more in the off-season. 

I’ll get into the other parts of your post another time as I feel there’s some nuance there regarding my positions you’re missing (and that’s ok, it’s a lot to take in and I totally expect that because it’s just not what we as fans are accustomed to), but I wanted to focus on this part here. 
 

Not that you care, or anyone else does, but I’m proud of you for this. I’ve come to the same realization in that we can’t get lost in this stuff, it’s just not worth it, and we’ve got to prioritize our lives better. That’s why I barely post anymore. The other part of my lack of posting is I know I come off as overly negative and I sincerely don’t want to or intend to, but it’s just what happens when you really dive deep and understand the core of the issues with Dan and what he’s done here organizationally relative to the rest of the league. 
 

I will, however, say this before I go into the other points you made in your post at a later time. This is STILL the best organizational structure, with the best group of “football people”, we’ve had under Dan. My points aren’t made to poop on it entirely, though I know it comes across like that, it’s more about just the disappointing nature of it not being optimal and that calling it the best during Dan’s tenure is actually not saying a whole lot considering just how awful it’s been. 

 

(btw, I’m pretty sure it wasn’t me who discussed anything with you about the Wizards, I don’t think I ever talked about them here, lol)

Edited January 21, 2021 by thesubmittedone

[joeken24]

Do you think Ron has had a conversation with Kyle? I would think Kyle would be gone by now. 

Edited January 21, 2021 by joeken24

[FrFan]

4 hours ago, Thinking Skins said:

But in the end I have to remind myself that this is just a game for me. No matter how bad this team is, i can't let it make me a bad father, son, or husband or person. So I've just increased my outlets to get away when they go crazy again. That's why I run during games and listen to audio books more in the off-season.

This is it 🖖

Carolina Panthers: A Look Back at the Marty Hurney Era

Did Washington Make Correct Decision Hiring Marty Hurney?

 

 

 

 

Edited January 21, 2021 by FrFan

[goskins10]

 

Nice breakdown for the double hire of Mayhew and Hurney.  Local fan but Rico does a decent job breaking things down.

 

Personally, not impressed with Hurney but Ron seems to like him. I am very much intrigued by the Martin Mayhew hire. Will be interesting to see how this all plays out. So far Ron is pushing the right buttons. I think he deserves some room to make whatever moves he sees to get us to the next level. 

 

 

[Thinking Skins]

 

[dckey]

Question for the more informed posters?   Could we keep Kyle Smith as well as adding Hurney and Mayhew?  This seems like a better front office to me, with Hurney as the GM, doing all of the other responsibilities of a GM except player personnel.  Which would give Ron someone he trust in that regard.  Then by adding Mayhew with Kyle Smith to complete the roster rebuild with Kyle focusing on the draft and Mayhew focusing on trades and FA.  

[Thinking Skins]

7 hours ago, thesubmittedone said:

(btw, I’m pretty sure it wasn’t me who discussed anything with you about the Wizards, I don’t think I ever talked about them here, lol)

Sorry about that. I just had the time to check and it was actually @stevemcqueen1 and others. 

[FrFan]

Second-round busts scar Mayhew's draft record

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

2 hours ago, dckey said:

Question for the more informed posters?   Could we keep Kyle Smith as well as adding Hurney and Mayhew?  This seems like a better front office to me, with Hurney as the GM, doing all of the other responsibilities of a GM except player personnel.  Which would give Ron someone he trust in that regard.  Then by adding Mayhew with Kyle Smith to complete the roster rebuild with Kyle focusing on the draft and Mayhew focusing on trades and FA.  

That's a whole lot of head butting.  You also have to add Ron into the mix, basically all 3 of those guys work for Ron vs. the owner, as it would be in most places.  The Mayhew hire all but confirmed that Kyle Smith is a goner.  I don't see how you can have a 4 man brain trust, 3 of which report to the head coach, and not have problems.

[Rocky21]

The guys at Riggo's Rag grade the Hurney hiring as a......D.

 

https://riggosrag.com/2021/01/19/washington-football-team-grading-the-marty-hurney-hire/

[boston skins fan]

12 minutes ago, Rocky21 said:

The guys at Riggo's Rag grade the Hurney hiring as a......D.

 

https://riggosrag.com/2021/01/19/washington-football-team-grading-the-marty-hurney-hire/

 

If Hurney stays in his lane and is just the facilitator and allows Rodgers to handle the contracts and cap and Smith/Mayhew handle the players then hell be fine.  

 

The isssue is will he stay in his lane

[JSSkinz]

As far as I can tell except for our owner we've pretty much removed all the dummies from the executive portion of this team so I have to look at the fact Kyle Smith has been here 11 years and has supposedly run the last 3 drafts and then notice that no other teams are offering him an interview in an offseason that has a lot of opportunity for FO types.

 

There's something there that is giving everyone pause when it comes to handing the keys to the castle over to Kyle Smith so I trust that Rons not an idiot and not looking to sabotage the franchise when he made these decisions.

[veteranskinsfan]

Just heard on the radio that Martin Mayhew missed on picking Rams star Aaron Darnold in the draft.  Ugh....

But the Lions reporter said that he was ok as a General Manager.

[Chump Bailey]

12 minutes ago, JSSkinz said:

As far as I can tell except for our owner we've pretty much removed all the dummies from the executive portion of this team so I have to look at the fact Kyle Smith has been here 11 years and has supposedly run the last 3 drafts and then notice that no other teams are offering him an interview in an offseason that has a lot of opportunity for FO types.

 

There's something there that is giving everyone pause when it comes to handing the keys to the castle over to Kyle Smith so I trust that Rons not an idiot and not looking to sabotage the franchise when he made these decisions.

 

Food for thought. I'd not thought about that. IMHO the last 3 drafts were good and if Kyle's fingerprints are mostly the reason why, I'm all for keeping the structure as is. He appears to be a good talent evaluator better than Mayhew and Hurney. The whole too many chef's in the kitchen thing is starting to rear its head unless Hurney is just going to handle the contract side of things mostly.

Edited January 21, 2021 by Chump Bailey

[KDawg]

I am listening to Sheehan from yesterday... I am hit and miss on his show but I find him to be reliable and smart. 
 

Hearing the story that Richardson was going to fire Rivera after a 1-5 start in Carolina but Hurney told Richardson, “we hired the right guy. If you have to fire someone, fire me. Trust me.”

 

And he did.

 

Two things stick out: Hurney has supreme integrity and I love that ****. 
 

Second: This is also a loyalty hire (which does NOT make it a bad hire)

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

23 minutes ago, JSSkinz said:

There's something there that is giving everyone pause when it comes to handing the keys to the castle over to Kyle Smith so I trust that Rons not an idiot and not looking to sabotage the franchise when he made these decisions.

I don’t think Ron is an idiot nor do I think he’s trying to sabotage the franchise.  I’m sure in his mind he’s doing what’s best.  To kind of take this back to what TSO was saying, why would he choose to give up any power or not select guys he’s comfortable with?  Ultimately it ties back to the structure that puts Ron in charge of all this to begin with.  It’s what prevents any coveted GM candidate from coming here, as those guys know they will get the control elsewhere.  

[Riggo#44]

1 hour ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

That's a whole lot of head butting.  You also have to add Ron into the mix, basically all 3 of those guys work for Ron vs. the owner, as it would be in most places.  The Mayhew hire all but confirmed that Kyle Smith is a goner.  I don't see how you can have a 4 man brain trust, 3 of which report to the head coach, and not have problems.

A couple of counterpoints:

1. I think the headbutting is the scarring of the Bruce Allen era--where he butted heads with anyone that threatened his power and any voice in Dan's ear: Shannahan, McCloughan, LaFemina, etc. It's possible, but less likely with this structure.

2. Hurney has been classed as a facilitator, Mayhew and Smith look like the evaluators. I think Rivera would establish clear roles and responsibilities.

3. No indication other than Russell's assumption that Smith is gone. Maybe, but he didn't receive a single interview for anything. I'll believe he's gone when he is. I still believe that Rivera let him know what his role is moving forward.

4. In most organizations, yes you'd want everyone reporting to the owner. But...do you want that in this organization? Really?

[Riggo#44]

2 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

It’s what prevents any coveted GM candidate from coming here, as those guys know they will get the control elsewhere.

 

So, something I've been wondering and no one has addressed--why do we need a major FO overhaul? Our FO has been killing it the last couple of years. Our drafts have been spectacular, and, other than clear Allen moves (Smith trade, Collins contract, Norman contract), name a bad deal we've signed?

 

Bringing in a hot commodity like Cowden would require significant changes and he'd probably want his people, wouldn't he?

[Andre The Giant]

We've all worked in organizations where talented people don't fit the workplace culture.  Sometimes people fit an existing culture, there's a leadership change, and those same people don't fit the new culture.

 

Reading between the media tea leaves (from Chris Russell and others), it seems that Rivera and Kyle Smith aren't a cultural fit.  Kyle may be talented, but he doesn't fit the way Ron likes things done.

 

When Ron got to Washington, I think he was stunned by how sparse the Front Office was.  He also didn't like the way things were done culturally.  So, he's bringing in guys that better fit his vision.

 

We've all seen in Washington what happens when there's organization discord and infighting (Shanny vs. Dan / Bruce, Scot vs. Bruce, Jay/Kyle vs. Doug/Dan, etc.).  The results aren't good.  Ron is the man in charge, and had a strong first year on the field.  As disappointing as it may be to potentially lose Kyle, I think it's more important that all parts of the organization are on the same page.  It's not like he's hiring his kids.  Hurney and Mayhew are both respected league veterans.  Plus, his coaching staff hires have been strong.

 

 

[Warhead36]

I think its within the realm of possibility that we vastly overrate Kyle Smith’s standing in the league. He is NOT the FO version of Sean McVay who got scooped up as a Head Coach after barely a couple years as OC. 

[KDawg]

Smith is a month younger than me and in a NFL front office. Therefore I am jealous of him. 
 

PS: Coach Rivera, I am available for interview. I can start the new position in about 12 minutes.

[Riggo#44]

4 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

I think its within the realm of possibility that we vastly overrate Kyle Smith’s standing in the league. He is NOT the FO version of Sean McVay who got scooped up as a Head Coach after barely a couple years as OC. 

This is entirely possible too. I am a fan of Kyle Smith, based on the results of the past couple of off-seasons, but it's not solely his work. We thought highly of Morocco Brown, Scott Campbell, and Alex Santos in previous regimes. Brown is currently the Colts Director of College Scouting, and never really ascended past what he was here. He has gotten looks and interviews for GM roles, but nothing more. Campbell was easily replaced by Smith, and Santos...yeesh...was a total dirt bag.

5 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Smith is a month younger than me and in a NFL front office. Therefore I am jealous of him. 
 

PS: Coach Rivera, I am available for interview. I can start the new position in about 12 minutes.

 

I can vouch! Just read the Draft Thread!