2021 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[Thinking Skins]

I don't know where to put this or even if its related to our team, but I've been wondering about the whole scouting and developing of a QB. There are a number of low round QBs I could have looked up but my mind was focused this morning on Tony Romo and what made him special from a standpoint that Peyton and Parcells signed him and developed him. Anyways here is a nice article that speaks to some of the things that were being said about him and hopefully we will say about our next QB. 

 

https://abcnews.go.com/Sports/star-made/story?id=43129260

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

5 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

I don't know where to put this or even if its related to our team, but I've been wondering about the whole scouting and developing of a QB. There are a number of low round QBs I could have looked up but my mind was focused this morning on Tony Romo and what made him special from a standpoint that Peyton and Parcells signed him and developed him. Anyways here is a nice article that speaks to some of the things that were being said about him and hopefully we will say about our next QB. 

 

https://abcnews.go.com/Sports/star-made/story?id=43129260

 

 

 

Interesting that Shanny was interested in Romo, too.   Shanny (Gibbs and Arians have said the same) has said work ethic is absolutely key.  Looks like Romo had that. 

 

Sean Payton: "Tony was a willing worker. If you have work laid out, he'd do it."

 Clint Stoerner: "He loved studying protections and loved studying the run. He knew everybody's assignment in the run game. Who does that? Obviously the great ones do."

[KDawg]

My guess RE: Scherff...

 

The franchise tag is going to be his best friend in a year where the cap drops dramatically and likely no real projection for the next season. A long term deal hurts him money wise, I would think.

 

Scherff is going to get tagged I think. 

[Est.1974]

5 minutes ago, KDawg said:

My guess RE: Scherff...

 

The franchise tag is going to be his best friend in a year where the cap drops dramatically and likely no real projection for the next season. A long term deal hurts him money wise, I would think.

 

Scherff is going to get tagged I think. 

Due to the mechanics behind the calculation of franchise tag values (in that it takes into account the league salary cap limit) , as next year that may decrease to 175mil those values may decrease by some 12-15% apparently in comparison to the 2020 calculations.

 

So you may well be right as tagging him is going to come in at a much lower value than previously expected.

[KDawg]

6 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

Due to the mechanics behind the calculation of franchise tag values (in that it takes into account the league salary cap limit) , as next year that may decrease to 175mil those values may decrease by some 12-15% apparently in comparison to the 2020 calculations.

 

So you may well be right as tagging him is going to come in at a much lower value than previously expected.

And like I said, I think it will still be to his benefit to get tagged.

[Est.1974]

1 minute ago, KDawg said:

And like I said, I think it will still be to his benefit to get tagged.

True, lower cap means he likely has fewer options also. Although there are still a few teams who will have significant cap space and can throw cash at him. 

[KDawg]

4 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

True, lower cap means he likely has fewer options also. Although there are still a few teams who will have significant cap space and can throw cash at him. 

Any team that throws that much cash at a guard in a year with a lowered cap is terribly mismanaged. 
 

I’m hoping he’s buying into the Rivera way...

[Thinking Skins]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Interesting that Shanny was interested in Romo, too.   Shanny (Gibbs and Arians have said the same) has said work ethic is absolutely key.  Looks like Romo had that. 

 

Sean Payton: "Tony was a willing worker. If you have work laid out, he'd do it."

 Clint Stoerner: "He loved studying protections and loved studying the run. He knew everybody's assignment in the run game. Who does that? Obviously the great ones do."

Yeah because his mechanics were appareantly off by a lot. That said, Quincy Carter Darren Woodson supposedly told him (I guess his rookie year) that he was the best QB in camp. Not saying much but its something. 

 

But how do you measure this from afar? I guess Payton had knowledge from similar colleges, and there was some background on Romo being a HS prospect. And there's the stuff on the combine extra work he did. But how often do those things happen? I know Allen was a great HS prospect but what else did he do that made him stand out?

Edited November 18, 2020 by Thinking Skins

[mistertim]

Hm. So there are "mild concerns" about Fields and "entitlement and work ethic"?

 

I'm not going to jump on that really, but it's still a bit worrying.

[The Consigliere]

21 hours ago, OVCChairman said:

 

 

what if Etienne is staring us in the face at 35 (if draft position doesn't change)

We have Gibson. I would consider that, as an asset to trade really, as he's a monster, but yeah, that really messed with the BAFP that doesn't play C, RB, ILB philosophy. Etienne looks like basically another Kamara. If he's there at 35 you probably take him, but damn is that ever a problem when we have needs everywhere. FTR I don't see him lasting that long, I think somebody pulls the trigger in the like 7-25 zone. I suspect the Harris goes more in the 20-50 zone because he probably doesn't test as well. 

[RichmondRedskin88]

17 minutes ago, mistertim said:

Hm. So there are "mild concerns" about Fields and "entitlement and work ethic"?

 

I'm not going to jump on that really, but it's still a bit worrying.

Maybe it’s a OSU QB thing?  That would explain them struggling in the NFL.  You can act that way in college where it’s all about stars under your name but NFL gives you nothing. You really have to earn it. All I know is DC can’t deal with another QB like that.  Between Griffin thinking he was secure,Kirk thinking he was a legend that should be paid like Brady, and Haskins now thinking he doesn’t have to work we can’t have another entitled dude. 

4 hours ago, Riggo#44 said:

 

I ran the simulation 4 times. The Jags took Sewell three of them. Jags gonna jag!

They ain’t that stupid.  Hell that’s like Jets stupid but even they know who they have to draft. 

[The Consigliere]

20 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

I wouldn't worry about teams that don't need QB. Yeah they could trade down but typically teams that high in the draft aren't going to trade out of premium talent. For example if the Bengals get the 3rd pick and are picking ahead of us, they're almost a lock to take someone like Sewell to sure up the LT spot.

 

We just really need to somehow leapfrog the Jags but I just don't see it. On top of that, I actually think we'll win at least one or two more games ourselves.

 

My guess is we end up drafting 4th.

I agree outside of the top two slots. Once you get to three, if it's Cincy or Miami, I imagine they'd just sit tight and take their guy for sure. Especially Cincy, considering they're giving Burrow the David Carr/Andrew Luck treatement w/that dog pile quality OL. 

[Malapropismic Depository]

Yay, Lawrence returns Saturday

[The Consigliere]

6 minutes ago, RichmondRedskin88 said:

Maybe it’s a OSU QB thing?  That would explain them struggling in the NFL.  You can act that way in college where it’s all about stars under your name but NFL gives you nothing. You really have to earn it. All I know is DC can’t deal with another QB like that.  Between Griffin thinking he was secure,Kirk thinking he was a legend that should be paid like Brady, and Haskins now thinking he doesn’t have to work we can’t have another entitled dude. 

They ain’t that stupid.  Hell that’s like Jets stupid but even they know who they have to draft. 

 

He was a Georgia QB though. Maybe it's a "superstar his whole life" thing. Or maybe it's not true. Who knows. 

 

As for the Jags, yeah, literally zero chance of that. They were tanking for Lawrence and then accidentally won a few games, they weren't taking for some OL help. Keep wondering w/Minchew, is he that star prospect pitcher that has to become a reliever because he gets found out everytime he runs through the order once? Some QB's are like that (see FitzMagic), where they can put together some games, but once teams have enough tape, they get totally squelched. Minchew looked good early in '19 and early in '20 and looked bad later on both years too. I just can't tell what he is. It's not helped by the team deliberately tanking, him not having an adequate OL and using an undrafted free agent RB (who is playing well) and having no TE either. So I'm just not sure, but I'd love to acquire a guy like him for a day 3 pick, could end up accidentally landing a starter caliber QB for peanuts. They aint getting rosen compensation if they try to flip him. Only Darnold strikes me as that kind of guy, and w/Darnold already done w/3 years of his rookie deal, he'll probably come cheap too. 

[Skinsinparadise]

3 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

Yeah because his mechanics were appareantly off by a lot. That said, Quincy Carter supposedly told him (I guess his rookie year) that he was the best QB in camp. Not saying much but its something. 

 

But how do you measure this from afar? I guess Payton had knowledge from similar colleges, and there was some background on Romo being a HS prospect. And there's the stuff on the combine extra work he did. But how often do those things happen? I know Allen was a great HS prospect but what else did he do that made him stand out?

 

Tough to measure from afar.  But I read that scouts go nuts as to how deep they research top prospects.  They interview a ton of people if they could about a prospect.  

34 minutes ago, mistertim said:

Hm. So there are "mild concerns" about Fields and "entitlement and work ethic"?

 

I'm not going to jump on that really, but it's still a bit worrying.

 

Bucky Brooks mentioned something similar -- said it was Georgia specific saying some in Georgia didn't think he was pushing himself enough.  But supposedly he's been more than fine in that department at Ohio State, so will see.  But yeah I'll keep that concern in my back pocket if we have a shot to draft him and other things of that kind pop up. 

[Skinsinparadise]

https://www.elevenwarriors.com/ohio-state-football/2020/05/114220/quarterback-trainer-quincy-avery-works-with-justin-fields-on-staying-consistent-in-months-away-from-ohio-state

 

During an interview on The Paul Finebaum Show on Thursday, Avery described Fields as “the most talented quarterback that I’ve ever come in contact with,” which is saying a lot considering that Avery has also worked with several quarterbacks who are already in the NFL, including Deshaun Watson and Dwayne Haskins. Asked about that comment by Eleven Warriors on Friday, Avery clarified it a bit, but nonetheless made it clear he views Fields as a special talent.

“When I said that, you’re doing an interview and you’re kind of talking quick, but what I really meant is like, at this point in their career, Justin is as talented as anybody that I’ve worked with,” Avery said. “And I think that people at Ohio State have seen that. He has the ability to do all these different things with his arm. And then if things break down, he also has the capability to run a 4.4(-second 40-yard dash) and make something electric happen with his legs. That’s really what I’m talking about is he can make all the throws, and I think people see that, but he also has the added dimension of being absolutely electric with his legs.”

Beyond his physical ability, Fields has also impressed Avery with his work ethic.

“He works as hard as any other college guy that I’ve seen,” Avery said. “Any time he’s back in town, it’s a quick text like ‘Yo, what’s going on, when are we getting throwing?’ And as soon as that happens, we get right to work. But he’s nonstop. I didn’t know that he was doing all this other work the whole time he’s been here. He’s doing strength and conditioning, running, he’s also throwing with Ron Veal. He’s nonstop working in terms of his offseason, which I think is very impressive.”

 

Soon, Fields will return to Columbus; according to a report by 247Sports’ Bill Kurelic on Friday, he’s already on his way back. Initially, he’ll only be able to work out on a voluntary basis with his teammates, as workouts directed by Ohio State’s coaches will remain prohibited through the end of June. Eventually, though, Fields will be back on the field with Ryan Day and quarterbacks coach Corey Dennis, trying to make up for lost time after the Buckeyes’ final 12 spring practices were canceled.

Fortunately for Ohio State, the work Fields put in with Avery and others over the past couple of months should go a long way in ensuring he’s as prepared to play as ever in 2020. And Avery is confident Dennis, who Avery said he expects to be a “rockstar” as Ohio State’s new quarterbacks coach, and Day will continue to maximize Fields' ability.

Edited November 18, 2020 by Skinsinparadise

[Commander Chaaarmnder]

11 minutes ago, The Consigliere said:

 

“As for the Jags, yeah, literally zero chance of that. They were tanking for Lawrence and then accidentally won a few games”

Or they accidentally won their only game week 1.  And they probably won’t accidentally win against the Steelers this week.

Edited November 18, 2020 by chaaarmndr

[Malapropismic Depository]

Even if we spend an early pick on a QB, I wouldn't mind spending a late pick on Ian Book

[max21]

14 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

https://www.elevenwarriors.com/ohio-state-football/2020/05/114220/quarterback-trainer-quincy-avery-works-with-justin-fields-on-staying-consistent-in-months-away-from-ohio-state

 

During an interview on The Paul Finebaum Show on Thursday, Avery described Fields as “the most talented quarterback that I’ve ever come in contact with,” which is saying a lot considering that Avery has also worked with several quarterbacks who are already in the NFL, including Deshaun Watson and Dwayne Haskins. Asked about that comment by Eleven Warriors on Friday, Avery clarified it a bit, but nonetheless made it clear he views Fields as a special talent.

“When I said that, you’re doing an interview and you’re kind of talking quick, but what I really meant is like, at this point in their career, Justin is as talented as anybody that I’ve worked with,” Avery said. “And I think that people at Ohio State have seen that. He has the ability to do all these different things with his arm. And then if things break down, he also has the capability to run a 4.4(-second 40-yard dash) and make something electric happen with his legs. That’s really what I’m talking about is he can make all the throws, and I think people see that, but he also has the added dimension of being absolutely electric with his legs.”

Beyond his physical ability, Fields has also impressed Avery with his work ethic.

“He works as hard as any other college guy that I’ve seen,” Avery said. “Any time he’s back in town, it’s a quick text like ‘Yo, what’s going on, when are we getting throwing?’ And as soon as that happens, we get right to work. But he’s nonstop. I didn’t know that he was doing all this other work the whole time he’s been here. He’s doing strength and conditioning, running, he’s also throwing with Ron Veal. He’s nonstop working in terms of his offseason, which I think is very impressive.”

 

Soon, Fields will return to Columbus; according to a report by 247Sports’ Bill Kurelic on Friday, he’s already on his way back. Initially, he’ll only be able to work out on a voluntary basis with his teammates, as workouts directed by Ohio State’s coaches will remain prohibited through the end of June. Eventually, though, Fields will be back on the field with Ryan Day and quarterbacks coach Corey Dennis, trying to make up for lost time after the Buckeyes’ final 12 spring practices were canceled.

Fortunately for Ohio State, the work Fields put in with Avery and others over the past couple of months should go a long way in ensuring he’s as prepared to play as ever in 2020. And Avery is confident Dennis, who Avery said he expects to be a “rockstar” as Ohio State’s new quarterbacks coach, and Day will continue to maximize Fields' ability.

I hope we get this dude, please god 

[Malapropismic Depository]

I havn't watched Fields a lot, but the impression I get, is that he compares to Russell Wilson.

Would that be an accurate comparison ?

[Anselmheifer]

Where do you guys think Zach Wilson falls in terms of QB talent of the previous 5-6 years? Meaning, if you had to rank 2016-2021, where would he rank? I'd love to see him against some better competition in the CFB playoff, but doubt it will happen.

[Skinsinparadise]

I just watched some Jamie Newman.  I'd go for Newman right now or Ridder if i am picking deeper in the draft.  I'd roll the dice on mobility.    for some reason Ridder struck me a little more dynamic both as a passer and runner than Newman.  But that could have been a function of which games I watched.  They are both in the same flavor

 

Pros:

Good arm though isn't great

Stands tall in the pocket

Mobile -- fearless runner

Good deep ball

Nice size for a QB

Didn't play this year so you might get him at a discount, you got some mystery about him which is both good and bad but perhaps good if you want to get him at a lower spot in the draft

 

Cons

Tested by a real defense against Clemson and he didn't look too hot

Shot gun QB

Don't love his touch on short throws in the flat

His throws seem mostly one speed

Fast but he isn't crazy fast so he's no Kyler Murray, Fields, etc. 

Mostly one read but not always

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Anselmheifer]

 

 

This ball placement is sick. The idea of Zach Wilson is growing on me. Such a soft, catchable, well placed ball. McLaurin could be an all pro with Zach Wilson dropping him deep balls. 

[Skinsinparadise]

4 hours ago, Anselmheifer said:

 

 

This ball placement is sick. The idea of Zach Wilson is growing on me. Such a soft, catchable, well placed ball. McLaurin could be an all pro with Zach Wilson dropping him deep balls. 

 

My only reservations on Wilson are level of competition and injuries.    Comparing him for example with Haskins.  There were a few reasons why I thought Haskins had high bust potential before that draft: 

 

A.  ball placement concern -- especially for out routes, deep balls, ball in the flat when by the numbers.  Zach's accuracy is sick everywhere.  He's not IMO like Haskins who basically had a sweet spot and struggled elsewhere. 

 

B.  Throwing on the move and off platform.  Haskins struggled with this.  You flush Haskins out of the pocket and he would struggle.  Zach thrives on throwing on the move and making plays off script.

 

C.  General mobility and in turn ability to deal with pressure especially up the middle.   Haskins struggled with it.  I think this is the one area he slightly improved on in the pros but still wasn't hot.   Zach deals with a muddled pocket just fine.

 

 

Those plays below IMO is so today's NFL, make a play on the move by design or when things break down.  The one key thing that makes me pause about Wilson is I'd like to see what happens when he plays a real fierce defense with a number of NFL caliber players.  That to me is the mystery about him.  My feeling is he has that "it" factor and will do fine in that setting but that's just a gut feeling.   Like you, I'd love to see him in a bowl game with a serious opponent and see how he'd fare

 

Edited November 19, 2020 by Skinsinparadise

[JoggingGod]

4 hours ago, Anselmheifer said:

Where do you guys think Zach Wilson falls in terms of QB talent of the previous 5-6 years? Meaning, if you had to rank 2016-2021, where would he rank? I'd love to see him against some better competition in the CFB playoff, but doubt it will happen.

Out of the first rounders, he's better than Lynch, Trubisky, debatably Allen, Rosen, Jones, Haskins, and Lance as a prospect.