2021 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[KDawg]

6 hours ago, mistertim said:

Hm. So there are "mild concerns" about Fields and "entitlement and work ethic"?

 

I'm not going to jump on that really, but it's still a bit worrying.

 

That hit me harder than I'd like to admit. Gonna have to keep an eye on that one. 

[OVCChairman]

45 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

That hit me harder than I'd like to admit. Gonna have to keep an eye on that one. 

 

 

I want to say he had a sense of entitlement on QB1 but its been a while since I saw it... i am gonna go back and watch

[KDawg]

Just now, OVCChairman said:

 

 

I want to say he had a sense of entitlement on QB1 but its been a while since I saw it... i am gonna go back and watch

If that’s what they’re referring to I don’t think it’s a huge deal. If it’s more or expanded or whatever it’s something different.

[OVCChairman]

1 hour ago, KDawg said:

If that’s what they’re referring to I don’t think it’s a huge deal. If it’s more or expanded or whatever it’s something different.

 

 

I agree, in QB1 he's a high school kid... a lot can change, so I can't imagine that's the ONLY situation they're 'reporting' on. 

[PartyPosse]

I assume the team will do due diligence regarding this.

[OVCChairman]

9 minutes ago, PartyPosse said:

I assume the team will do due diligence regarding this.

 

 

Yeah if there is one thing that Rivera has done since the day he walked in the door, it was getting guys in the building that fit.  

[Burgundy Yoda]

14 hours ago, Anselmheifer said:

Where do you guys think Zach Wilson falls in terms of QB talent of the previous 5-6 years? Meaning, if you had to rank 2016-2021, where would he rank? I'd love to see him against some better competition in the CFB playoff, but doubt it will happen.

It's hard for me to judge exactly where to rank him because he's turned a corner similar to how Burrow did last year. So his best film by far is his recent play. 

 

He's not Lawrence but he's better than every other QB in this class imo. He's not quite as good as Joe Burrow and Tua, but I think he's a better prospect than Herbert. He's not Murray but he's better than every other QB from the 2019 class. I like him better than every 2018 QB prospect. In 2017, I definitely like Watson better, I thought for sure he was a top 3 pick and was shocked when he fell. I like him more than both Wentz and Goff from 2016. 

 

His ball placement in the pocket looks special. His ball placement on the run IS special. He's perfect for the modern NFL and has some serious swag to him on the field. The dude reminds me of Mahomes, his arm isn't as strong but the way he plays the game is eerily similar. Very good at off-key plays, just like Pat and can make something out of nothing. Has that "magic" to him imo. 

Edited November 19, 2020 by Burgundy Yoda

[Burgundy Yoda]

14 hours ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

I havn't watched Fields a lot, but the impression I get, is that he compares to Russell Wilson.

Would that be an accurate comparison ?

I see more Dak Prescott in his game. 

Edited November 19, 2020 by Burgundy Yoda

[KDawg]

I posted about him last year but I really, really like this receiver... I think he’s be available in the mid rounds and I think he has every tool to succeed...

 

 

He’s not Jamar Chase. But I think he’d be a perfect fit on this roster. 

[Skinsinparadise]

10 hours ago, OVCChairman said:

 

 

I agree, in QB1 he's a high school kid... a lot can change, so I can't imagine that's the ONLY situation they're 'reporting' on. 

Bucky Brooks talked about it in a podcast with Jeremiah.  He more or less said what he heard was that in Georgia they felt that he didn't push himself to unseat Fromm and Fromm outworked him.   And I gather the implication there is Fields saw himself as the more talented QB and didn't push himself the way he should and lost out to a less talented QB.

 

If so, the narrative seems to be he learned his lesson from that and worked harder at Ohio State.  But will see if another narrative emerges. 

Edited November 19, 2020 by Skinsinparadise

[mistertim]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Bucky Brooks talked about it in a podcast with Jeremiah.  He more or less said what he heard was that in Georgia they felt that he didn't push himself to unseat Fromm and Fromm outworked him.   And I gather the implication there is Fields saw himself as the more talented QB and didn't push himself the way he should and lost out to a less talented QB.

 

If so, the narrative seems to be he learned his lesson from that and worked harder at Ohio State.  But will see if another narrative emerges. 

 

If all that is true the question then is whether he truly did cultivate new habits and change his mentality or if it's not truly a long term thing. I'm generally inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt on that, and I'm quite sure that Rivera and company would be very diligent before drafting him. But I can't say that it doesn't worry me a little bit.

 

People can absolutely change their mindset and habits but it takes time, attention to detail, and willingness to grind when you don't want to...and that's not always something that young guys who have always been superstars due to their pure talent can do.

[Fresh8686]

For those interested 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, mistertim said:

 

If all that is true the question then is whether he truly did cultivate new habits and change his mentality or if it's not truly a long term thing. I'm generally inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt on that, and I'm quite sure that Rivera and company would be very diligent before drafting him. But I can't say that it doesn't worry me a little bit.

 

People can absolutely change their mindset and habits but it takes time, attention to detail, and willingness to grind when you don't want to...and that's not always something that young guys who have always been superstars due to their pure talent can do.

 

I agree. 

 

I just noticed there is a narrative that he turned over a new leaf at Ohio State and his off season coach thinks the dude is a maniac as for his work habits, he's become a Vegan among other things, obssessed with diet.  Also the same Qb coach who also works with Haskins flat out in a podcast more or less said Fields is a better player than Haskins.  He didn't say it outright like that but more or less said Fields is in another strata.  I bring Haskins into this because of concerns about his work habits, etc.  But for me the stuff on Haskins is more damning because it lasted over years with multiple narratives and I don't see Haskins as this mega talented Qb to begin with.  I could see Haskins failing even with good work habits because IMO he's a flawed QB.   Fields on the other hand is a freak. 

Edited November 19, 2020 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

PFF rankings today -- they have Lawrence first, and these are the ones after him

 

https://www.pff.com/news/college-football-ranking-all-127-fbs-quarterback-situations-ahead-of-cfb-week-12

 

1. JUSTIN FIELDS, OHIO STATE

   If any other quarterback in college football not named Trevor Lawrence were performing at the level Fields is right now, the world would be melting. For Fields, it’s the norm. The Buckeye has put up a 93.9 passing grade through his first three starts. There have been just two quarterbacks in the PFF College era to earn higher passing grades through their first three starts of a season: Trevor Lawrence and Zach Wilson, both in 2020. It’s the year of the quarterback.

   Fields has thrown just five uncatchable passes in those three games, which gives him the lowest uncatchable pass rate in the country. For perspective, Fields has thrown as many deep (20-plus air yards) passing touchdowns. In his first full season as a starting quarterback at the collegiate level in 2019, Fields put up one of the 10 best seasons we have ever recorded in the PFF College era. This season may be a shortened one, but he is on track to do that again.

   Oct 24, 2020; Provo, UT, USA; BYU quarterback Zach Wilson (1) looks down field in the first half during an NCAA college football game against Texas State Saturday, Oct. 24, 2020, in Provo, Utah. Mandatory Credit: Rick Bowmer/Pool Photo-USA TODAY NETWORK

2. ZACH WILSON, BYU

   It seemed highly unlikely that there would ever be a quarterback to have as meteoric a rise from one season to the next like Joe Burrow did in 2019. Yet, we have one of those insane breakout years just a season later with BYU’s Wilson.

   Wilson dazzled as a true freshman back in 2018. He received a 78.8 passing grade and looked like he could develop into one of the top non-Power 5 quarterbacks in the country. But in 2019, injuries derailed his season a bit and hindered his downfield accuracy — causing his passing grade to dip to 72.5. Even with him healthy this year, not a soul expected Wilson to challenge Burrow’s 2019 as the best quarterback season we have had since PFF College’s inception in 2014. Wilson has a 94.4 passing grade through eight starts, leading all FBS quarterbacks. Whether he is inside or outside of structure, Wilson is making plays.

   Not only is he one of the handful of elite quarterbacks in college football, but according to PFF Lead Draft Analyst Mike Renner, he has taken that QB3 spot in next April’s draft previously held by Trey Lance.

3. MAC JONES, ALABAMA

   Right after Wilson, perhaps the most surprising breakout belongs to Jones. He performed fairly well when replacing Tua Tagovailoa in 2019 following his gruesome hip injury, but he was far from the level we routinely would see from the now Miami Dolphin. Jones had a 79.5 passing grade, which is good, but the fact that he had a higher grade when pressured as opposed to when working from a clean pocket was a bit of a concern. He, however, has shown that shouldn’t have been a concern, as he has an incredible 93.8 PFF grade through six starts. Dare I say Jones has been better than the 2020 fifth overall pick?

   In each of those six starts, Jones has earned a grade above 82.0 — something Tagovailoa only did three times in nine starts in 2019. Rarely does Jones make a mistake with the ball or toss up an errant throw. Only Fields has a better negatively graded throw rate this year than him.

4. KYLE TRASK, FLORIDA

   Trask has looked like a completely different player in the last couple of weeks that skyrocketed his ranking.

   Florida fielded a juggernaut of an offense in their first four games of 2020, but a lot of Trask’s production was schemed and came courtesy of the supporting cast, playcalling and structure of the offense overall. Trask still didn’t have to make difficult reads and throws over the middle of the field against Georgia in Week 10, but the difficulty level within his throws was far higher. He had hands down the most impressive performance of his career, featuring five big-time throws, one turnover-worthy play and a career-high 91.3 passing grade.

   Trask then managed to have an even better game against Arkansas on Saturday. He earned a new career-high passing grade at 92.8, with six big-time throws and only a couple of turnover-worthy throws on the night. His ball placement really could not have been better against the Razorbacks. He routinely took advantage of his receiver’s leverage and put the ball right where it needed to be.

Another PFF guy on Wilson

 

https://www.pff.com/news/college-football-2021-nfl-mock-draft-trevor-lawrence-is-still-the-jets-pick-at-no-1-overall-justin-fields-to-the-giants-at-no-2

3. JACKSONVILLE JAGUARS – QB ZACH WILSON, BYU

He’s the highest-graded passer in college football. He can win from the pocket as well as on the move. He’s got a quick release and can sling it from any platform. And he doesn't miss. Get used to it — Wilson is an elite quarterback prospect.

[Skinsinparadise]

Breer

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/2020/11/19/why-cardinals-risked-it-for-kliff-kingsbury-kyler-murray-surprise-first-round-qbs-2021-draft

The rise of the 2021 Quarterback Class.

I had a veteran evaluator brings this up to me on Wednesday—Florida’s Kyle Trask’s 2020 season is starting to resemble Joe Burrow’s 2019, and Alabama’s Mac Jones has the Tide offense pacing like Tua Tagovailoa had it rolling last year. Which, of course, sent me to the numbers to see how they matched up.

Burrow, 2019 (15 games): 402-527 (76.3%), 5,671 yards, 60 TDs, 6 INTs
Trask, 2020 (projected over 15 games): 370-528 (70.1%), 5,427 yards, 70 TDs, 8 INTs

Tagovailoa, 2019 (9 games): 180-252 (71.4%), 2,840 yards, 33 TDs, 3 INTs
Jones, 2019 (projected over 9 games): 209-266 (78.5%), 3,294 yards, 24 TDs, 3 INTs

Statistically, really, the comps aren’t far off-base. Also, it’s fair to say that Florida’s offense isn’t quite as loaded as LSU’s was last year, and fair to point out that Jones doesn’t have Jerry Jeudy and Henry Ruggs this year (though Alabama’s skill talent is still very, very good). Which leads you to this question: Are these guys as good?

The short answer: No, they aren’t. I asked one NFC exec on Wednesday if those two are anywhere close to Clemson’s Trevor Lawrence or Ohio State’s Justin Fields, and got a one-word answer: “No.” But could they sneak in the first round? “It’s possible, for sure.”

“They’re not ‘wow’ players,” said the first evaluator, who raised the comps to me in the first place. “But they’re good decision-makers, they’re accurate, and you can put it this way—Trask is doing some stuff that Burrow wasn’t, and Bama’s more explosive than they were with Jeudy and Ruggs. These guys are good players.”

As for what it means draft-wise, it gives depth to a group that we’ve known was going to be really strong at the top. Lawrence is a generational prospect. Fields would probably go first overall in plenty of drafts, and only won’t in this one because of Lawrence. North Dakota State’s Trey Lance is a top-half-of-the-first-round talent, and BYU’s Zach Wilson burst on to the scene this year and is in the first-round discussion as well.

Having Trask and Jones in the mix gives you six guys who teams could view as starters. I’m not ready to call either a first-round guy (it seems to me that Jones has a better shot than Trask, who’s a little stiff as an athlete). But that it’s even a discussion point is good news for where all this is headed over the next six months.

It also should give some hope to teams like Chicago, Indianapolis, New England, and Pittsburgh, who’ll be in the market for young quarterbacks but won’t be in position to get a Lawrence or a Fields. Because it certainly looks possible now that they’ll have some guys to choose from after the dust on the top guys settles.

 

[Fresh8686]

I doubt he lasts till the 2nd round but...

 

 

[mistertim]

I still say that Lance made a really poor decision in declaring for the draft and ending his season early. Other QBs are out there killing it and IMO he's going to be pushed back more and more as the season unfolds. 

 

Someone will no doubt take a chance on him but guys like Lawrence, Fields, Wilson, Trask, and Jones having stellar seasons (though IMO the first 3 are a fair amount above the last 2) combined with Lance's really low sample size and coming from a small school are all going to hurt his stock. 

[philibusters]

10 minutes ago, mistertim said:

I still say that Lance made a really poor decision in declaring for the draft and ending his season early. Other QBs are out there killing it and IMO he's going to be pushed back more and more as the season unfolds. 

 

Someone will no doubt take a chance on him but guys like Lawrence, Fields, Wilson, Trask, and Jones having stellar seasons (though IMO the first 3 are a fair amount above the last 2) combined with Lance's really low sample size and coming from a small school are all going to hurt his stock. 

 

I think his team only had one game.  I don't think it was entirely voluntarily.

[mistertim]

4 minutes ago, philibusters said:

 

I think his team only had one game.  I don't think it was entirely voluntarily.

 

Yeah that's true, it looks like the plan is for them to start back up in Feb. Thanks for the correction.

 

I can sorta see him shutting it down for the year now since Feb and March are generally when guys are training a bunch for the combine and pro days. 

 

That being said, I still think it's going to hurt his stock in the draft with other QBs playing really well. This also looks to be a potentially excellent QB class. His best bet might have been to go back to school for 2021. If he had a really good season he'd likely be up at the top of the draft boards for the 2022 draft and without the worries of him being a one year wonder.

[Dark Acre]

Vegan?  Why do athletes,especially those who play a collision sport, go vegan?  According to science (specifically, paleontology) the big leap in human development millions of years ago ("encased in a block of ice"*), was when our ancestors began eating large quantities of meat, which resulted in the substantial growth of our brains, unique in the animal kingdom.  If he's worried about quality, he can easily get grass-fed, free-range/roam (whatever it's called) meats from different animals, particularly bison, which is relatively low in fat and high in protein, + important fatty acids necessary for your brain health.  I am sofa king jonesing for a steak now.

 

Seriously, though, I'd want to know why any player has gone vegan before I draft him.  If he's doing it in a faddish way or hasn't researched the pros and cons, it'd be a concern.  I have nothing against vegans, per se, (unless they're providing the pizza) it's just that it screams virtue signalling to me by athletes.

 

*Godzilla reference

Edited November 19, 2020 by GothSkinsFan

[KDawg]

15 minutes ago, GothSkinsFan said:

Vegan?  Why do athletes,especially those who play a collision sport, go vegan?  According to science (specifically, paleontology) the big leap in human development millions of years ago ("encased in a block of ice"*), was when our ancestors began eating large quantities of meat, which resulted in the substantial growth of our brains, unique in the animal kingdom.  If he's worried about quality, he can easily get grass-fed, free-range/roam (whatever it's called) meats from different animals, particularly bison, which is relatively low in fat and high in protein, + important fatty acids necessary for your brain health.  I am sofa king jonesing for a steak now.

 

Seriously, though, I'd want to know why any player has gone vegan before I draft him.  If he's doing it in a faddish way or hasn't researched the pros and cons, it'd be a concern.  I have nothing against vegans, per se, (unless they're providing the pizza) it's just that it screams virtue signalling to me by athletes.

 

*Godzilla reference

I eat a lot of meat and my brain hasn’t grown. I want my money back.

[philibusters]

45 minutes ago, GothSkinsFan said:

Vegan?  Why do athletes,especially those who play a collision sport, go vegan?  According to science (specifically, paleontology) the big leap in human development millions of years ago ("encased in a block of ice"*), was when our ancestors began eating large quantities of meat, which resulted in the substantial growth of our brains, unique in the animal kingdom.  If he's worried about quality, he can easily get grass-fed, free-range/roam (whatever it's called) meats from different animals, particularly bison, which is relatively low in fat and high in protein, + important fatty acids necessary for your brain health.  I am sofa king jonesing for a steak now.

 

Seriously, though, I'd want to know why any player has gone vegan before I draft him.  If he's doing it in a faddish way or hasn't researched the pros and cons, it'd be a concern.  I have nothing against vegans, per se, (unless they're providing the pizza) it's just that it screams virtue signalling to me by athletes.

 

*Godzilla reference

 

I am a vegetarian (which slightly different than vegan).  I do it for moral reasons.  People have all types of different reasons.   I doubt there are a lot of vegans on the Ohio St football team so its probably not standard virtue signaling because the vast majority of people in his social circle are not vegans.  Usually virtue signaling would happen later when maybe 15% of the team had become vegans, but before like 50% become vegans, but the timing is not right for virtue signaling.  Basically there has to be some consensus that something is a virtue before you can do the standard virtue signaling of our day.

 

That said, I don't agree with the idea that the fact that he went vegan is evidence that he changed his work ethic for UGA to Ohio St.  I don't see that as related. 

[Skinsinparadise]

t’s a new season and a new diet for Justin Fields. 

The junior quarterback has turned to an all-vegan diet in an attempt to become leaner and take better care of his body, he said. Fields said that the diet started out as a family activity, but it has transitioned to an everyday thing for him.

“My dad wanted to do it because he was kinda heavy, so I just tried it with him and then it kinda turned into a family thing. First it started off as a 28-day challenge, it was really a cleanse,” Fields said Friday in a Zoom call. “I just liked how I felt after that and I just kept going on from there. I’m doing it now and I feel great, my body feels great and I feel faster and stronger.” 

 

The new diet has created what Fields described as a “competition” in his family, as his dad was the first to try veganism out. His stepmother and sister joined afterward, prompting Fields to join in on the family diet. 

While Fields has brought the new diet with him to Columbus, he was met with some doubt by strength and conditioning coach Mickey Marotti. However, Fields said he proved to him that he could follow the diet while also still improving his play. 

“Coach Mick was skeptical about it at first and so was our nutritionist,” Fields said. “I think I proved to them that I can do that and actually be able to perform even better than I was before. So I think after them seeing that with their own eyes and then they started to believe that, ‘Maybe this is working for him.’” 

Although Marotti had his initial doubts, offensive coordinator Kevin Wilson said that Fields has improved in multiple facets of his game since making the switch to veganism. 

“I think he just did it to be leaner, take care of himself, and be stronger and faster, and he looks that way. He’s a stronger and faster player,” Wilson said Sept. 25 on a zoom call.

 

 

The nutritional staff at the Woody Hayes Athletic Center has helped him along the way. Fields said that he wasn’t sure he would be able to stick with the diet without the help of the team’s cooks, who provide him with specially cooked vegan meals. 

Fields said he eats breakfast at home before practice and is then provided a vegan lunch at the WHAC, as well as a carryout dinner that he takes home. 

With the new diet, Fields said he has received a fair amount of flack from his teammates. However, he said he doesn’t mind missing out on certain meals because the diet has made his body feel better. 

“Some guys on the team always mess with me like, ‘How do you not eat steak?’ or something like that,” Fields said. “I feel good with what I’m eating, so I think the diet I’m on right now, as long as it’s helping me out, I don’t mind skipping a steak.” 

Despite the criticism, the diet has begun to spread around the team.

 

 

“I think I’m getting a lot of other guys to try it with me,” Fields said. “The more people that are trying it are saying that it’s not as bad as they thought it was.” 

Fields said that junior linebacker Teradja Mitchell has tried some vegan items and that head coach Ryan Day expressed interest in trying the diet out. 

Although Fields has turned away from eating meat, he says he doesn’t really have a craving for it since becoming vegan.

However, Fields said that he misses chicken tenders and macaroni and cheese the most out of any food he’s had to give up.

“[I] really just miss kids meals to be honest, I feel like I wasn’t a fancy guy,” Fields said. 

Despite just starting the diet, Fields said that he plans on doing it for the rest of his playing career.

Fields said that he hasn’t found a favorite option yet, but that he’s excited to keep trying new meals. 

“There’s way too many options to narrow it down and I don’t think I’ve experienced all of the vegan options,” Fields said. “But all the things I’ve tried so far have been great.”  

https://www.thelantern.com/2020/10/football-justin-fields-turns-to-vegan-diet-results-in-improved-game/#:~:text=It's a new season and,an everyday thing for him.

3 minutes ago, philibusters said:

 

That said, I don't agree with the idea that the fact that he went vegan is evidence that he changed his work ethic for UGA to Ohio St.  I don't see that as related. 

 

I didn't say that's the evidence for it, I just threw it in the soup as for him being disciplined.  But yeah don't worry the prime argument about him working harder has zero to do with him being a vegan. 

Edited November 19, 2020 by Skinsinparadise

[mistertim]

2 hours ago, GothSkinsFan said:

Vegan?  Why do athletes,especially those who play a collision sport, go vegan?  According to science (specifically, paleontology) the big leap in human development millions of years ago ("encased in a block of ice"*), was when our ancestors began eating large quantities of meat, which resulted in the substantial growth of our brains, unique in the animal kingdom.  If he's worried about quality, he can easily get grass-fed, free-range/roam (whatever it's called) meats from different animals, particularly bison, which is relatively low in fat and high in protein, + important fatty acids necessary for your brain health.  I am sofa king jonesing for a steak now.

 

Seriously, though, I'd want to know why any player has gone vegan before I draft him.  If he's doing it in a faddish way or hasn't researched the pros and cons, it'd be a concern.  I have nothing against vegans, per se, (unless they're providing the pizza) it's just that it screams virtue signalling to me by athletes.

 

*Godzilla reference

 

Yeah, to me the vegan thing is the football equivalent of broscience in the gym. "This dude told me I should eat 10 times a day and he's ripped. So obviously he's right and I need to eat 10 times a day to get ripped."

 

As far as I'm aware there really isn't any actual science or evidence behind veganism and athletic performance, though there is for certain types of macronutrients but that's totally different. But other guys do it and they're successful so people follow suit. As @Skinsinparadisenoted, some of it may just be about discipline more than the actual diet.

 

Him being vegan is pretty much meaningless to me from a diet perspective but if it helps him to keep disciplined in other areas and in general then that's great. Whatever works for him.

[KDawg]

Also, I've liked Vera-Tucker for a while. Dude can ball.