2021 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[PartyPosse]

38 minutes ago, mistertim said:

As far as I'm aware there really isn't any actual science or evidence behind veganism and athletic performance, though there is for certain types of macronutrients but that's totally different. But other guys do it and they're successful so people follow suit. As @Skinsinparadisenoted, some of it may just be about discipline more than the actual diet.

Everyone's body reacts differently to diet and i tend to trust high profile athletes to know what works best for them. 

[mistertim]

30 minutes ago, PartyPosse said:

Everyone's body reacts differently to diet and i tend to trust high profile athletes to know what works best for them. 

 

I don't, necessarily. Plenty of professional athletes use seriously dubious products and/or believe in seriously dubious stuff that has little to no scientific basis. I personally think it's mostly a "follow the leader" sort of thing. That being said, as long as they're getting the macros they need and can still perform at a high level, then how they get that nutrition isn't especially relevant.   *shrug*

[PartyPosse]

1 hour ago, mistertim said:

 

I don't, necessarily. Plenty of professional athletes use seriously dubious products and/or believe in seriously dubious stuff that has little to no scientific basis. I personally think it's mostly a "follow the leader" sort of thing. That being said, as long as they're getting the macros they need and can still perform at a high level, then how they get that nutrition isn't especially relevant.   *shrug*

I think products and “get ripped quick” schemes are entirely different than proper nutrition. 

[Burgundy Yoda]

That 49ers 3rd rounder is turning out better than I expected. They have 2 more wins left on their schedule and they'll end up at 6-10 this year. So that pick will be at least 10 spots better than I thought it was going to be. 

[Playaction2Sanders]

If we go QB. I want Zach Wilson. Watch the QB school's take on him. Kid looks a combo of Aaron Rodgers, Favre and Mahomes all in one. LOOK AT SOME OF THESE THROWS.. These are throws you never saw Haskins making and your sitting there watching this like.. Haskins was a 1st rounder?? If you watch Sullivan's take on the game that got Haskins benched, he talks about how he saw NO ANTICIPATION THROWS in Haskins tape.. Its the complete opposite with WIlson..

 

His mistakes I feel can be corrected in the league.. If not I want Penei, sure up the Oline. trade back, get some picks, address lb, guard, secondary, if you can, TE, WR depth and get a bellcow back..

 

 

 

Edited November 20, 2020 by Playaction2Sanders

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

Reading back through his report, it’s easy to see that a lot of his concerns have come to fruition early on in his career. Haskins' biggest flaws during his brief stint as a starter came from his inability to adjust to the speed of the game—albeit he wasn’t provided much leeway and then his lack of lower body twitch didn’t allow him to create new opportunities with escaping the rush. 

 

Whenever Justin Fields' names is brought up, Haskins is a name that someone randomly mentions no matter how positive or negative the discussion may be, so let’s dive into why Fields is different than not only Haskins, but also his Buckeye predecessors. 

First, it's important to understand the various degrees of the Ohio State offense. The Buckeyes offense is constantly labeled as one that’s quarterback-friendly as coaches have been able to scheme specific players wide open. That still is the case, but under Haskins, the offense altered to suit his skill set a bit more in the short to intermediate areas of the field.

 

What’s noticeable is that the coaches staff knew that they had a quarterback that faced some challenges with throwing the ball down the field. Instead, they enabled him to attack the underneath areas and wanted the natural ability of their playmakers to take over after that. With players like Terry McLaurin and Parris Campbell on the perimeter, this was a wise approach to match the strengths of their quarterback with the YAC ability of their wideouts.

 

A staple of the offense was the “mesh” concept. Mesh is a traditional passing concept of the Air Raid offense that makes life much easier on the quarterback because it eliminates a lot of thinking as far as coverage reads and puts more stress on receivers to read coverage on the run.

 

 

..The game that really stands out where the Buckeyes offense heavily relied on this concept was against Indiana. The group became so polished at mesh that they designed it out of various formations and began to add even more small wrinkles to it for the quarterback. 

 

...Now, transitioning to the 2020 edition of the Ohio State offense, the mesh concept has been completely eliminated due to Fields’ skill set being much more diverse than Haskins'. What’s evident is that there’s more progression based routes as well as allowing No. 1 to scan the field from side-to-side in full-field fashion. A lot of factors go into this, as the trust that the staff has with Fields seems to be a bit better and he has the mobility to make plays work even though the play call may not be correct.

 

The first area where Fields is different from Haskins is his mobility. As stated in the scouting report earlier, one of Haskins' glaring flaws was his inability to consistently escape pressure. Now, he wasn’t a statue in the pocket by any stretch of the imagination, but he wasn't an ultimate creator that would be able to always make multiple defenders miss in short areas prior to exploring new throwing avenues following that point. 

 

That last point is where Fields' game is exceptional. He’s outstanding with being able to avoid the first defender while keeping his eyes down the field in order to readjust his sightline to throw to new appearing targets. Mobility for young quarterbacks entering the NFL has basically now become a requirement due to the discrepancy in athleticism and talent levels overall between offensive and defensive lineman. Quarterbacks are now required to be at least average athletes that can get themselves out of harm's way.

 

Staying on course with the 2020 Buckeyes offense, a concept that they are repeatedly running that is a progression based read is “Y-Cross.” The concept has become a staple of the team's offense because it is one that Fields has seen cleanly this season and it also has been one of their most effective down the field plays.

 

...Through three games so far this season, these are the types of downfield and multi-step progression based concepts that Fields has been asked to perform. A bit different from a season ago of where he had more “object reads”–ones where he’s reading mostly a single object or defender similar to run-pass options. This season, those types of reads have been mixed in with more full-field reads, which haven’t been popular in years past in the Ohio State offense. 

 

From 2003 through this present season, Ohio State has had an interesting mixture of quarterbacks. With Smith, Pryor, and Miller, it was more of the athletic type who the team fit the scheme around their athletic ability while Barrett, Jones, and Haskins were more natural throwers of the ball, but ball placement, accuracy, and manufactured touches were a key attribute behind their production. Fields is the best of both worlds as he has above-average athleticism and easily surpasses the athletic threshold needed for quarterbacks to thrive outside of structure—but he also has the passing ability to run a diverse passing scheme.  

 

An old scouting theory is to “scout the individual player, not the helmet logo.” That line of thinking and theory will be put to the test with Fields in a similar fashion as it was with Patrick Mahomes and Texas Tech quarterbacks. That’s not to say that that is the projected career outcome, but just an example of how the theory can be applied to a player who’s one of the best in the league.

C

ontext and a singular line of thinking will be needed when evaluating Fields as the "Ohio State quarterbacks never succeed in the NFL" narrative will become an opinion that’s echoed everywhere. Based on Fields’ game film from this season, he’s completely different from anything that we’ve seen come out of Columbus in the past.

Edited November 20, 2020 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

The PFF Redskins guy pushing Lance on twitter.  I am not an anti-Lance guy.  He's just too confusing for me to feel confident that I have him figured out.  

 

Not that am 100% confident that i have the others figured out but i am more confident than I am in them versus Lance.  Lance is very raw.  But I don't argue that the dude looks like a freak athlete with a rocket arm and has plenty of upside.  I'd be ok with him from the vantage point that i'd presume there is a specific plan for how to use and develop him.  Zach Wilson to me is much more polished.  And at the moment i am certainly more in camp Wilson than Lance.

 

 

 

Edited November 20, 2020 by Skinsinparadise

[Est.1974]

Interesting comment on Burrow. 
 

I think we are taking a QB in the first. But I don’t think we will reach if picking at #3. I think we get our QB picking between 5-10, either by landing in that spot by record, or trading back. 
 

I also think that if we pick outside of the top 2 with Lawrence and Fields gone, Lance will be our guy.

[Fresh8686]

The Wilson and Lance dichotomy is so intriguing to me and I can't wait to fully run them through my evaluation system. I have Zach Wilson firmly ahead of Trey Lance right now in my evaluations, but I need to look deeper into ZW's ability to stay injury free and isolate the plays where his creativity is pressured or limited. Then for Trey, I have to find and isolate his high difficulty throws. I need to see if he can consistently make them and just doesn't need to show it off that much or if he is dependent on single read, easy window throws, that if aren't there lead to him taking off with his legs. 

Both get away with things in college that they will have to move on from, but what are those things and how well positioned is each player to elevate from those training wheel type situations? Lance has more to learn, but also more natural ability to rely on while Zach is the opposite in certain ways.

[KDawg]

7 minutes ago, Fresh8686 said:

The Wilson and Lance dichotomy is so intriguing to me and I can't wait to fully run them through my evaluation system. I have Zach Wilson firmly ahead of Trey Lance right now in my evaluations, but I need to look deeper into ZW's ability to stay injury free and isolate the plays where his creativity is pressured or limited. Then for Trey, I have to find and isolate his high difficulty throws. I need to see if he can consistently make them and just doesn't need to show it off that much or if he is dependent on single read, easy window throws, that if aren't there lead to him taking off with his legs. 

Both get away with things in college that they will have to move on from, but what are those things and how well positioned is each player to elevate from those training wheel type situations? Lance has more to learn, but also more natural ability to rely on while Zach is the opposite in certain ways.

Sometimes when it comes down to it, a guy that has a decent understanding of things but has some stuff to learn may wind up better in the NFL. They are a blank slate.

 

Of course, there still needs to be prerequisite knowledge in place.

 

I don’t think that’s the case RE: Wilson/Lance, but../

[Skinsinparadise]

Joey T touting Zach Wilson right now on 106.7

[PartyPosse]

58 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

Interesting comment on Burrow. 
 

I think we are taking a QB in the first. But I don’t think we will reach if picking at #3. I think we get our QB picking between 5-10, either by landing in that spot by record, or trading back. 
 

I also think that if we pick outside of the top 2 with Lawrence and Fields gone, Lance will be our guy.

If we're three and Fields and TL are gone we have to take Sewell. I have faith a QB will be there at 35.

[Fresh8686]

12 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Sometimes when it comes down to it, a guy that has a decent understanding of things but has some stuff to learn may wind up better in the NFL. They are a blank slate.

 

Of course, there still needs to be prerequisite knowledge in place.

 

I don’t think that’s the case RE: Wilson/Lance, but../

 

I feel you. I'm not sure yet until I do my real evaluations and dig through each necessary variable and use those to project growth at higher speeds and complexities. Each player will have to learn to do something different from what they were getting away with doing in college. And they will have to learn that in a tougher environment. The hardest thing to evaluate in my opinion is how well guys can learn those new things in the NFL pressure cooker and that is even more the case with QB's. It takes fortitude to not fall back into old patterns, but also it takes winning the trust of your team/coach to be given the time and opportunity to learn, by showing a consistent upward trend.

[Going Commando]

5 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

So they knew on draft day that they didn't want Haskins and yet they didn't draft Tua.  Kyle Smith must have had a third round grade on him.

[Riggo#44]

4 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

So they knew on draft day that they didn't want Haskins and yet they didn't draft Tua.  Kyle Smith must have had a third round grade on him.

I think he just wants to humiliate Haskins as much as possible. Rivera is behind it too. Haskins is thier Shelley Levene.

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

6 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

So they knew on draft day that they didn't want Haskins and yet they didn't draft Tua.  Kyle Smith must have had a third round grade on him.

 

As you know, Tua's injury history didn't make him a slam dunk pick.  But i was along with @KDawg and @volsmet on board with taking Tua if they were comfortable with his health.

 

I recall you complementing Kyle on this same thread before but i am picking up some sarcasm here directed towards him 😀.  

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

As you know, Tua's injury history didn't make him a slam dunk pick.  But i was along with @KDawg and @volsmet on board with taking Tua if they were comfortable with his health.

 

I recall you complementing Kyle on this same thread before but i am picking up some sarcasm here directed towards him 😀.  

I feel like it’s part “we should have drafted him” and part dig. Like a half and half situation. 

Because Kyle didn’t have a high grade on the Hask 
 

[Skinsinparadise]

2 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said:

I think he just wants to humiliate Haskins as much as possible. Rivera is behind it too. Haskins is thier Shelley Levene

 

Feels a little that way to me, too.  Typically you don't admit that you would take another young QB in the draft when you got a young QB in the roster.  Rivera seems to have a bit of a passive aggressive thing cooking with Haskins.

 

I don't blame Rivera for not buying into Haskins.  I don't buy into him either.  And from what beat guys have said Rivera is far from alone in that building as to not being Haskins guys.  But at the same time, I'd rather this sort of drama doesn't last into next season.  I hope they cut bait soon in the off season and end it.  

 

[Going Commando]

5 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said:

I think he just wants to humiliate Haskins as much as possible. Rivera is behind it too. Haskins is thier Shelley Levene.

 

Why you or anyone else continues to carry water for this regime even though they've managed to **** up quarterback 15 different ways in the short time they've been here is beyond me.  Every time Ron gives us a peak into their decision making process it just makes them look even more clueless and full of ****.

6 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Feels a little that way to me, too.  Typically you don't admit that you would take another young QB in the draft when you got a young QB in the roster.  Rivera seems to have a bit of a passive aggressive thing cooking with Haskins.

 

I don't blame Rivera for not buying into Haskins.  I don't buy into him either.  And from what beat guys have said Rivera is far from alone in that building as to not being Haskins guys.  But at the same time, I'd rather this sort of drama doesn't last into next season.  I hope they cut bait soon in the off season and end it. 

 

That poster was being sarcastic too.  He was taunting me, and his little rah rah cheerleader act for Rivera and company is the extent of the insight he can provide to quarterback discussions.

[Skinsinparadise]

17 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

Why you or anyone else continues to carry water for this regime even though they've managed to **** up quarterback 15 different ways in the short time they've been here is beyond me.  Every time Ron gives us a peak into their decision making process it just makes them look even more clueless and full of ****.

 

That poster was being sarcastic too.  He was taunting me, and his little rah rah cheerleader act for Rivera and company is the extent of the insight he can provide to quarterback discussions.

 

OK, got it, not sure about the post you are referring to. 

 

For me I like Rivera and Kyle Smith and it has nothing to do with taunting anyone.  Forgetting them specifically, I think you got to give every adminstration time to find their footing.  I don't think a new regime is stuck with any player they inherit even if its a player I love.   And I recall you complementing Rivera and Kyle in the past in seperate posts. 

 

I get the frustration when they don't agree on a player.  But that's bound to happen.    I can't think of a regime where I agreed with them on everything.    I've been wrong on some of the players I've disagreed with the regime in charge about and I've been right.    I do think Rivera's leadership skills and pedigree are better than what we are accustomed to here. He has won coach of the year twice.   I also think Kyle has been a better at drafting than Scott Campbell and the other dudes we've had in the recent past.  Our weakness IMO aren't those two people but our clown owner. 

Edited November 20, 2020 by Skinsinparadise

[Est.1974]

1 hour ago, PartyPosse said:

If we're three and Fields and TL are gone we have to take Sewell. I have faith a QB will be there at 35.

We need a QB, LT and LB first 3 picks. I don’t disagree, but that’s what we need to walk away after day 2 of the draft from, plus that extra pick from SF to course.

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Joey T touting Zach Wilson right now on 106.7

JT loves Wilson already. That’ll be his position until draft day, rightly or wrongly.

[KDawg]

9 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

OK, got it, not sure about the post you are referring to. 

 

For me I like Rivera and Kyle Smith and it has nothing to do with taunting anyone.  Forgetting them specifically, I think you got to give every adminstration time to find their footing.  I don't think a new regime is stuck with any player they inherit even if its a player I love.   And I recall you complementing Rivera and Kyle in the past in seperate posts. 

 

I get the frustration when they don't agree on a player.  But that's bound to happen.    I can't think of a regime where I agreed with them on everything.    I've been wrong on some of the players I've disagreed with the regime in charge about and I've been right.    I do think Rivera's leadership skills and pedigree are better than what we are accustomed to here. He has won coach of the year twice.   I also think Kyle has been a better at drafting than Scott Campbell and the other dudes we've had in the recent past.  Our weakness IMO aren't those two people but our clown owner. 

Who is ultimately the reason we have Haskins to begin with. 
 

I don’t believe it’s fair to lay Haskins at the feet of Rivera and Smith, who didn’t want him but gave him a shot as a first round quarterback. 
 

Could they make mistakes at QB? Yes. They could. 
 

But Haskins isn’t on them. 

[Est.1974]

32 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

As you know, Tua's injury history didn't make him a slam dunk pick.  But i was along with @KDawg and @volsmet on board with taking Tua if they were comfortable with his health.

 

So was I. I’d have gone Tua.

[Est.1974]

28 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

Why you or anyone else continues to carry water for this regime even though they've managed to **** up quarterback 15 different ways in the short time they've been here is beyond me.  Every time Ron gives us a peak into their decision making process it just makes them look even more clueless and full of ****.

 

That poster was being sarcastic too.  He was taunting me, and his little rah rah cheerleader act for Rivera and company is the extent of the insight he can provide to quarterback discussions.

With all due respect, you take things too personally. Historically you chip out of draft conversations as soon as the team picks a prospect you don’t endorse. 
 

We all know jack **** in reality, so just kinda step back and be less emotionally attached would be my advice.