2021 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[Skinsinparadise]

4 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

And I don't see Lance as being on the same level as LJ...he doesn't have 4.3 speed and doesn't have the quicks of Jackson to make people miss.

 

Not sure if he's on par with Jackson.  But to me he's in that same flavor right now because he ran a lot -- running was a big part of Lance's game in college, over 1100 yards the season before.  I don't know what his speed is.  He's a long strider, so he seems to take a little time as for his get off but once he finds daylight he can hit those homerun type long runs.  He's a ballsy runner.  He likes running at times straight up the A gap like he's a running back.  He breaks tackles and can be elusive in open space.  Especially in the red zone, he likes to use his legs.  He relies on them from what I've seen more than Fields does. 

[Fresh8686]

I wonder if Ron would see another Cam Newton in Trey Lance? The way he breaks tackles and pushes the pile is impressive. 

 

I prefer Zach Wilson though and would choose him over Trey. He’s produced way more in high difficulty situations with better ball placement, better variance in platform and velocity of throws, and more confidence in his reads and quick trigger decision making. Trey has this hitch before he throws at times and his windup is much longer than Zach’s. You can see the baseball ball background in Zach’s style of play and that translates quite well to the NFL. 

 

Who are people hoping to get in the 2nd Round? Brevin Jordan? Or maybe Olave, Amon-Ra, or Devonta Smith if we should be so lucky? 

 

Or maybe we sign a WR in free agency and go LT, LB, or FS with that pick?

 

 

[Est.1974]

2 hours ago, Fresh8686 said:

I wonder if Ron would see another Cam Newton in Trey Lance? The way he breaks tackles and pushes the pile is impressive. 

Yes, very possible. And he likely has the chance to have both on the roster next year if he wanted....

 

Say QB in the first, I think we have to target TE and LB day 2. That extra third rounder and high fourth rounder give us great options. 
 

Should be able make solid ground with a 1,2,3,3,4

[tmandoug1]

18 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

Yes, very possible. And he likely has the chance to have both on the roster next year if he wanted....

 

Say QB in the first, I think we have to target TE and LB day 2. That extra third rounder and high fourth rounder give us great options. 
 

Should be able make solid ground with a 1,2,3,3,4

Maybe an Oline pick before the 6th?

[KDawg]

2 hours ago, Fresh8686 said:

I wonder if Ron would see another Cam Newton in Trey Lance? The way he breaks tackles and pushes the pile is impressive. 

 

I prefer Zach Wilson though and would choose him over Trey. He’s produced way more in high difficulty situations with better ball placement, better variance in platform and velocity of throws, and more confidence in his reads and quick trigger decision making. Trey has this hitch before he throws at times and his windup is much longer than Zach’s. You can see the baseball ball background in Zach’s style of play and that translates quite well to the NFL. 

 

Who are people hoping to get in the 2nd Round? Brevin Jordan? Or maybe Olave, Amon-Ra, or Devonta Smith if we should be so lucky? 

 

Or maybe we sign a WR in free agency and go LT, LB, or FS with that pick?

 

 

Depends on FA. 
 

There are LBs, Guards, Tackles, Safeties, Receivers, Tight Ends, RBs that I have interest in that may be there.

[Est.1974]

27 minutes ago, tmandoug1 said:

Maybe an Oline pick before the 6th?

you’d hope so, but the OL group has kind of lifted itself from poor to serviceable at the minute..

 

our TE and LB situation is disgustingly bad.

[The Sisko]

19 hours ago, The Consigliere said:

The best story is still him having the shocking insight to commission Richard Thaler to do a deep dive on NFL Draft analytics to help fix our approach (which had been a grand mal disaster from the last days of Beathard in the late eighties, through the Cerrato disaster that was the nineties and into the aughts) which had been a complete and total disaster for basically nearly two decades. Thaler then brings him the report, and Snyder than totally ignores it, and Thaler and does the opposite, over and over again for the rest of the decade (the data said we should trade down when possible, and try like mad to accumulate as many picks as possible as nothing seemed to yield extra hits on draft picks other than sheer quantity of picks). Since then analytics people have dug up insights beyond just lotsa picks (some positions yield better wins above replacement as compared to others to use a baseball team, when it comes to allocate draft capital, cap space, and hit rates on day 1 of drafts (QB, WR, Edge, CB, and I think DT, not sure though). But yeah, the Thaler story was the cherry on top of my redskins misery.

I’ve long wondered after that debacle about the degree to which we use analytics across the entirety of management of the team. I suspect not much at all due to Snyder’s “super genius” and that’s part of why I’ve transitioned from a rabid fan to a casual observer. One of the things I always loved about our teams under Gibbs and Beathard was the well-oiled efficiency of everything. We were “Just do your job” before Bellicheat and Co. I look at teams like the Steelers and Ravens and it truly makes me jealous, mostly because we already had that formula in-house and we let it slip away. I don’t think there were analytics back then. It was just Gibbs’/Beathard’s superior knowledge, experience and work ethic that I think substituted for it. It’s just unfortunate that the Squire didn’t live a bit longer and structure his estate better, but that’s all water under the bridge.

 

Anywho, I’ll admit I fell into your group of fans that just wanted Chase. The prospect of a killer DL possibly transforming our defense along with the injury risk with Tua were at the top of my mind last year. Now, I’m having some buyer’s remorse. That said, I don’t think you can overestimate the degree to which the RG Knee era played a part in the decisionmaking, even though it pre-dates the current regime. As L. Jackson has shown, at least so far, a running QB that can pass a bit and more importantly, is smart enough to play in such a way to keep himself healthy can be deadly in this league. I just hope we don’t make a late season run that will drop us too far in the draft to have a shot at another QB. 

[The Sisko]

Dupe post

[Going Commando]

Ty Fryfogle's two TDs were super impressive plays.  Very good concentration and body control  Good functional power to play through all sorts of contact before and after the catch.  Great balance.  Good size.  This kid is good and it looks like he might be having a breakout season.

[mistertim]

20 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Not sure if he's on par with Jackson.  But to me he's in that same flavor right now because he ran a lot -- running was a big part of Lance's game in college, over 1100 yards the season before.  I don't know what his speed is.  He's a long strider, so he seems to take a little time as for his get off but once he finds daylight he can hit those homerun type long runs.  He's a ballsy runner.  He likes running at times straight up the A gap like he's a running back.  He breaks tackles and can be elusive in open space.  Especially in the red zone, he likes to use his legs.  He relies on them from what I've seen more than Fields does. 

 

Yeah I get that teams could see him in the same mold. The success of Jackson I think has swung the league a bit back towards being open to QBs who run a lot. It seems to go in cycles. It came into fashion with guys like RG3 and Kaep (I don't see Wilson as a running QB, just a guy who's great at extending plays like Rodgers). Then when those guys failed, it went out of style again, now that Jackson has had a ton of success it's swinging back a bit. 

 

In watching his games I also noted the same thing about his running. He hits A gaps and tries to bulldoze guys a lot. On one hand I love watching that stuff in general; it's always fun to see guys play like that. On the other hand I wouldn't want my QB doing that crap, especially in the NFL. If you want to run up the gut, get a RB. That's just begging for a potential injury. Sure, he can get away with trying to bulldoze guys in college because he's in a weak conference playing against talent that's far inferior to himself. He's going to get his ass handed to him in the NFL with that mess.

 

I'm just not very enamored of Lance I guess. He's super fun to watch and has some nice attributes. But his sample size is so small, coming from a small school where he might as well have been playing against high school teams many times. I think he could potentially be a good fit with an organization that's 1) Willing to be very patient with him and let him develop and 2) Willing to completely tailor their playbook to his strengths. Not just a little...fully. 

 

IMO this is absolutely not that team. 

 

 

 

 

On another note, I found out that Zach Wilson is being mentored a bunch by a Redskins legend...

 

Patrick Kinahan: Zach Wilson’s training with John Beck in California growing in stature

 

"Ok Zach. Remember...step, step, step, hitch, plant...look off that safety...then panic and throw it directly to the defensive lineman 1 yard away from you for a TD"

 

"Um...is that really what is supposed to happen, sir?"

 

"I AM JOHN ****ING BECK. YOU DARE TO QUESTION ME, MORTAL?"

[CRobi21]

Book a pretty impressive dual threat QB from ND..

 

This USC QBs throwing motion reminds me so much of Andrew luck.

[Skinsinparadise]

2 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

 

I'm just not very enamored of Lance I guess. He's super fun to watch and has some nice attributes. But his sample size is so small, coming from a small school where he might as well have been playing against high school teams many times. I think he could potentially be a good fit with an organization that's 1) Willing to be very patient with him and let him develop and 2) Willing to completely tailor their playbook to his strengths. Not just a little...fully. 

 

 

I got some concerns about Lance myself, I gave my own fairly longish report on him recently.  I wouldn't hate it if they took him though because I'd presume they got a plan for him.

 

On another note, the broadcasters tonight are totally sucking up to Kyle Trask and saying the NFL should heavily consider the dude.  To my eyes, the dude looks like a Kellen Moore, Colt McCoy type, a player tailor made for college but doesn't have the arm strength to make it in the NFL.    But i don't know.  He certainly is efficient.    But i don't see any special attribute from him but I can't argue against the idea that by hook or crook he keeps making plays. 

 

https://247sports.com/Article/Urban-Meyer-on-Florida-We-found-a-legit-threat-to-Alabama-154732072/

“Kyle Trask this past weekend against Georgia, it was abuse,” Pollack said Wednesday on College Football Live. “He should be arrested for it, it was assault. With Kyle Trask it’s the poise, the composure, it’s the strength in the pocket to shrug people off and continue to play. He’s learned so much from taking over a year ago to now, to proving to the point where I think teams are gonna look at him in the NFL and think ‘I (could) build around this guy and maybe build a future.’ That’s how much he’s improved.”

 

 

 

 

 

 

[mistertim]

26 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

On another note, the broadcasters tonight are totally sucking up to Kyle Trask and saying the NFL should heavily consider the dude.  To my eyes, the dude looks like a Kellen Moore, Colt McCoy type, a player tailor made for college but doesn't have the arm strength to make it in the NFL.    But i don't know.  He certainly is efficient.    But i don't see any special attribute from him but I can't argue against the idea that by hook or crook he keeps making plays. 

 

 

Yeah I think Trask has some decent intangibles and is efficient but whenever I watch him a few big things pretty much immediately stick out to me: 

 

1) Lack of arm talent (as you noted). I don't think he's Pennington but he doesn't get a lot of mustard on his intermediate throws and his deep balls seem to float a lot.

2) His footwork is really crappy. Very clunky and slow as molasses. Sometimes it seems like he has cement shoes on or something.

3) When pressured he tries to make lots of throws off his back foot while back pedaling. He gets away with it sometimes in college, but he just doesn't have the arm strength to get away with it in the NFL. 

 

He's a guy I'd probably be ok with maybe as a 2nd or 3rd rounder. I just don't see him as a 1st round talent. 

[Going Commando]

5 hours ago, CRobi21 said:

This USC QBs throwing motion reminds me so much of Andrew luck.

 

I can see it too now that you mention it.  He doesn't look as big and strong as Luck was, but it is a bit eerie how similar they play.

[Skinsinparadise]

9 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

Yeah I think Trask has some decent intangibles and is efficient but whenever I watch him a few big things pretty much immediately stick out to me: 

 

He's a guy I'd probably be ok with maybe as a 2nd or 3rd rounder. I just don't see him as a 1st round talent. 

 

Ditto for me.  I keep hearing some tout him, I've watched him plenty, not sure if I am missing it but right now Trask wouldn't be a target for me.  If I had to go with the 2nd tier types (after the top 4 QBs), Mac Jones right now would be my top target.  

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[philibusters]

I think Trask has good anticipation, but its hard to get excited about him.  He doesn't have the arm or wheels that you desire.  I think in the right system he could be a serviceable starter.  In terms of his realistic ceiling, I would say a Nick Foles comes to mind.  

 

With Lawrence, Fields, and Wilson I feel like their ceiling is potentially pro-bowl level.  Same with Lance, but Lance's floor seems so much lower that I don't have much interest in him.

 

He is not eligible for this year's draft but the Terp fan in me wants to ask people what they think of Taulia as a NFL prospect.

[DazedSkinsfan]

6 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Ditto for me.  I keep hearing some tout him, I've watched him plenty, not sure if I am missing it but right now Trask wouldn't be a target for me.  If I had to go with the 2nd tier types (after the top 4 QBs), Mac Jones right now would be my top target.  

I've seen plenty of Mac Jones this season and admit I'm not football savvy enough to understand what puts him in the 2nd tier level.  I look at his numbers and its impressive and comparable to Burrow from last year.  Is it arm strength or another mechanics issue that causes him to fall?

[Berggy9598]

16 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

Yeah I think Trask has some decent intangibles and is efficient but whenever I watch him a few big things pretty much immediately stick out to me: 

 

1) Lack of arm talent (as you noted). I don't think he's Pennington but he doesn't get a lot of mustard on his intermediate throws and his deep balls seem to float a lot.

2) His footwork is really crappy. Very clunky and slow as molasses. Sometimes it seems like he has cement shoes on or something.

3) When pressured he tries to make lots of throws off his back foot while back pedaling. He gets away with it sometimes in college, but he just doesn't have the arm strength to get away with it in the NFL. 

 

He's a guy I'd probably be ok with maybe as a 2nd or 3rd rounder. I just don't see him as a 1st round talent. 

I'm sorry but your second point is simply factually incorrect. His dropbacks are extremely efficient and coordinated first off, which is a big reason he sets up so quickly. His feet are in constant motion in the pocket and is rarely caught flat footed on a throw even when there's pressure He resets with little to no wasted motion when he has to make subtle movements in the pocket. For a taller QB this is important because it's easier for his base to go, which would have an adverse effect on accuracy. It is precisely because of how well he moves his feet in the pocket that allows him to keep his base when he has to reset, and consequently a big reason he is so accurate. His feet are plenty quick for a taller QB prospect, but their coordination in the pocket is one of his strongest attributes. 

[mistertim]

Just now, Berggy9598 said:

I'm sorry but your second point is simply factually incorrect. His dropbacks are extremely efficient and coordinated first off, which is a big reason he sets up so quickly. His feet are in constant motion in the pocket and is rarely caught flat footed on a throw even when there's pressure He resets with little to no wasted motion when he has to make subtle movements in the pocket. For a taller QB this is important because it's easier for his base to go, which would have an adverse effect on accuracy. It is precisely because of how well he moves his feet in the pocket that allows him to keep his base when he has to reset, and consequently a big reason he is so accurate. His feet are plenty quick for a taller QB prospect, but their coordination in the pocket is one of his strongest attributes. 

 

Just completely disagree here. I watch his feet then I watch the feet of other top QB prospects and they're noticeably slower. I'm not saying he trips over his own feet every time he drops back or something, but his footwork is just so ponderous. It's not horrible from a technical standpoint usually, but it really looks to me like someone taped weights onto his cleats before the game.

 

Again, I don't think he's necessarily a bad QB prospect, but I certainly wouldn't take him in the 1st round. I see him as a guy you take a 2nd or 3rd round flyer on with the hope that he can improve his fundamentals. 

[Malapropismic Depository]

No need to overthink this.

It doesn't matter WHAT positions we draft in each round.

We need help at EVERY position.

[Est.1974]

It’s hard to imagine us picking outside the top 10. Simply have to take a QB.

[Warhead36]

1 hour ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

It’s hard to imagine us picking outside the top 10. Simply have to take a QB.

The Jags just took a lead in the 4th quarter against the Pack. We might just have a shot at the #2 pick.

[Skinsinparadise]

3 hours ago, DazedSkinsfan said:

I've seen plenty of Mac Jones this season and admit I'm not football savvy enough to understand what puts him in the 2nd tier level.  I look at his numbers and its impressive and comparable to Burrow from last year.  Is it arm strength or another mechanics issue that causes him to fall?

 

Let me start with you never know when it comes to college QBs.   And I am not pretending to be an expert or have a definitive opinion on any of these.  I am just guessing. 

 

IMO, Mac Jones simply doesn't have the attributes that the top 4 QBs do in this draft.  Lawrence has everything -- arm strength, mobility, accuracy.  Fields has mega mobility, good enough arm strength and is accurate.  Zach Wilson is an escape artist in the pocket who can throw the ball off platform, has good accuracy, etc.  Lance to me is the hardest to figure out of the top tier guys but he has elite traits so if he puts it together he could be special IMO, I don't think Mac has elite traits. 

 

Mac Jones to me is a pure pocket passer.  Good deep ball.  Good arm strength but not great.   IMO his touch is so so.   He's not a throw off platform make things happen when the pocket breaks down kind of guy.  He's my favorite of the 2nd tier types but it wouldn't surprise me if he ends up being a dude who is a competent NFL QB but is nothing special,.