2021 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[Skinsinparadise]

15 minutes ago, Rdskns2000 said:

What's the QB prospects for Rounds 2-4?   I prefer to spend that first pick on o-line and if we are to take a QB, take it Round 2 or later.   I am still of the belief Ron wants to veteran next year to be our starter and yes,  Cam Newton is possibility.  Maybe we trade for Matt Stafford?    Sign an aged Phillip Rivers?

 

I just feel Ron wants  to be establish at the QB position before letting a young QB take the long term reigns.

 

No way to know what Rivera wants.  If I had to guess based on his comments and history, I'd say he'd be more inclined to go for one in the draft than a FA.   But that's just a guess based on this...

 

A.  Rivera had Cam from the start in Carolina.  He's no dummy and am sure knows his success was somewhat driven by having good-consistent QB play for a good duration.

 

B.  He loves to tout that this is a young team that is growing together.  Seems to fit to have a QB like that, too versus a veteran at the tail end of their career.

 

C.  His recent comments about wondering whether the franchise Qb is on this roster now.  Sounds to me like a coach searching for that type of guy versus a bandaid. 

 

D.  If they end up with a top 5 pick, they might be in a unique position to get a top QB.  You can't bank on just being in the top 5 every year and continually having chances at this.  Yeah you can trade the farm to trade up or hope to get lucky by taking the 4th-5th most highly regarded QB, etc -- but we've played that game before and it hasn't worked out, yet. 

 

E.  The FA crop at the moment at Qb doesn't look hot unless Dallas lets Dak go.  Stafford is mentioned by some but he's not a FA and for the Lions to let go of him they'd have to eat a ton of cap room.  I am ok with Cam but he doesn't like he's his old self thus far. 

 

I go back to Clinton Portis' comments not that long ago when asked about why this team can't get over the hump.  His take was more or less because they've been bad but not bad enough to have a top pick to get that elite player especially at QB.  

 

Getting the QB later hasn't really worked for this franchise.   We've had in different eras under Dan -- killer O lines, great receivers, great running games, good defenses.  We've figured those things out at different times.  If there is theme to this team's failures under Dan is their struggles to find that QB.  Vinny Cerrato is a buffoon but when he was asked why can't this team win under Dan -- his answer:  QB.  We can never figure out QB. I agree with him.   They have failed spectacularly at that spot. 

 

With a high 2nd round pick, high 3rd rounder, likely mid 3rd rounder, high 4th rounder, etc and plenty of cap room -- we can build up the O line and land a Qb at the same time.  It's not A versus B IMO.  If they have a good off season they can do both. 

 

 

[Est.1974]

Assuming we cut ties with Alex Smith, that’ll leave an 11mil dead cap hit. Based on Rivers getting a 1 year 25mil deal, I can’t see us massively investing cap money into a high priced free agent QB as well.
 

Drafting one whilst retaining Allen as an ERFA seems to me like the #1 outcome right now. I’d even say Cam remains an option on a short term affordable deal.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[KDawg]

Fields. I can’t say it enough. I just don’t think we’re going to get the chance to draft him

[Skinsinparadise]

11 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

Assuming we cut ties with Alex Smith, that’ll leave an 11mil dead cap hit. Based on Rivers getting a 1 year 25mil deal, I can’t see us massively investing cap money into a high priced free agent QB as well.
 

Drafting one whilst retaining Allen as an ERFA seems to me like the #1 outcome right now. I’d even say Cam remains an option on a short term affordable deal.

 

To me its impossible to know. all about context.  Where do they pick in the draft?  How do they evaluate the QBs that might land in their spot?  What do they think of next years class?  What do they think of the current FA's?

 

I haven't watched all of Cam's games this season but the ones I have -- he struck me at best average.  I am more of a Stafford guy than most but are the Lions ready to cut bait and swallow a big time cap hit?  Rivers seems to be having mosty a "meh" season.  Dak I'd roll the dice on maybe but wonder about that injury and am doubting Dallas lets him go. 

 

If the top 4 QBs in this draft (at least according to draft geeks) come out.  In theory this might end up being a draft similar in theory to 2018 where there were 4 QBs coming out with some hype.  But better than that.  None of those 4 had hype similar to Lawrence and Fields.    If we are in range to take one of the top 4 QBs and Kyle Smith is hyped about that, in Rivera's shoes I'd roll the dice. 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

23 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Fields. I can’t say it enough. I just don’t think we’re going to get the chance to draft him

 

I am with you on Fields.  At this juncture more or less last season, I was so taken by Chase Young that it hurt for me to think about it much because I was resigned that he wouldn't end up here because I figured we'd win more games and heck we just don't typically have that kind of luck in the draft.

 

Arguably, we've never had luck in the draft as to QBs during Dan's era.  We aren't bad at the right time to position ourselves to get the killer prospect types.  

 

For this season, like with Chase last year, it pains me at this point to even watch Fields because heck I can even envision him more likely playing against us in the division versus playing here.  But you never know.  I think the next 3 games are big time as for draft position.  We are going head to head with teams that aren't that hot.   After those 3 games, I doubt we win another. 

[method man]

29 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I am with you on Fields.  At this juncture more or less last season, I was so taken by Chase Young that it hurt for me to think about it much because I was resigned that he wouldn't end up here because I figured we'd win more games and heck we just don't typically have that kind of luck in the draft.

 

Arguably, we've never had luck in the draft as to QBs during Dan's era.  We aren't bad at the right time to position ourselves to get the killer prospect types.  

 

For this season, like with Chase last year, it pains me at this point to even watch Fields because heck I can even envision him more likely playing against us in the division versus playing here.  But you never know.  I think the next 3 games are big time as for draft position.  We are going head to head with teams that aren't that hot.   After those 3 games, I doubt we win another. 

 

The issue is that it's been reported Dan has been involved in every 1st round QB pick we've made, dating back from Ramsey. He is obviously an idiot who doesn't know how to judge QB talent. The Dan move would be to stump for Lance. I feel fairly safe if we end up with TL, Fields or Wilson

 

The other Dan move would be to trade 3 1st round picks to move up to take Fields, which would be foolish

[Est.1974]

Is the Ohio State LT #75 highly regarded? not the quickest of feet but like the way he engages his opponent and take them out of the play. Good down field aggression as well. 
 

Mid round prospect?

[Skinsinparadise]

Just watched 3 games of Trey Lance.  I'll compare him some to Justin Fields since I've seen others do it because both can run.  Fields to me is a much more polished passer and has better ball placement.  Lance IMO is the better runner and has the stronger arm.  IMO Fields > Lance.  Fields I think will be a star in the NFL.  As for Lance, he might be a star but I pause more about him.  Lance strikes me as a boom-bust prospect.  Big time talent but also really raw.  I'd go for the ride if they like him.    Off the top of my head, I'd pick Wilson over Lance with the caveat that i'd have no issue if Rivera/Turner prefers Lance because of having some specific plan for him.  To my eyes that plan would be something similar to the Ravens with Jackson.

 

Lance to me feels closer to a Lamar Jackson type of project where he is very dependant on his running skills.  So i'd gather they'd have a similar plan to what the Ravens did with Jackson.   Fields uses his running skills as gravy.  Lance uses it as a key component to his game and depends on it more as crutch.

 

Pros

The dude can run.  

As a runner he has nifty moves in the open field, he isn't just a straight line runner like RG3, he can break tackles and dodge defenders. 

He has some thick legs and can likely withstand some punishment as to avoiding injury.

Nice deep ball, puts enough air under his deep ball for the receiver to get under it to make the catch

Flick of the wrist effortless arm strength -- reminds me of RG3 on that front

He has a quick release when he's decisive

He avoids turnovers by waiting for open receivers and relies more on safer type throws from that context -- which is both good and bad for different reasons. 

 

Cons

Stares big time at receivers to really ridiculous levels.  He's just about always staring right at his intended target. 

Doesn't seem to go through progressions much, mostly a one read QB.

Doesn't throw with anticipation typically with the exception of the deep ball

Doesn't have great touch in the short passing game

When the pocket breaks down, his instinct is to take off and run versus keeping his eyes downfield so he could still throw the ball

In the pros, he won't be able to get away with running up the A gap which he seemed to like to do in college.  He will eventually get hurt if he plays like that

 

 

 

 

 

[Thinking Skins]

Is there any report on who the hardest working qb in this year's class is? What about leadership, who's the best leader? And who's the most coachable? As this turns into a dull of a season, I'm trying to figure out how I'm going to rank this year's QBs. I wonder how the wonderlick scores will be. 

[Warhead36]

We aren't the type of franchise that can have success with Lance. We need someone who can elevate a program, like what RG3 was in 2012. Lance needs to be nurtured and developed.

[Riggo#44]

3 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

We aren't the type of franchise that can have success with Lance. We need someone who can elevate a program, like what RG3 was in 2012. Lance needs to be nurtured and developed.

 

A. Please stop bringing up what RGIII did in 2012. It's beyond irrelevant now. That's not just to you, that's to everyone here.

B. Why not? Because Haskins flamed out? We've never drafted a QB that lives, breathes, and ****s football. Maybe we should try that--from what I've seen, both Lance and Wilson are those types. Chiefs went 50 years before Mahomes, w/ some really lean years, Rams were a joke before Warner, Packers won the first 2 SBs and then not again until Favre and Rodgers, Steelers went 26 years between SB wins, with a cadre of really mediocre QBs, before Rothliesberger, Patriots were the WFT before Bledsoe/Brady, same with Seattle for the most part before Wilson (a couple of good years with Holmgren). Point is, all it takes is one--and there is no secret recipe to developing a QB. They just need to have talent and work harder than anyone else.

[Riggo#44]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Cons

Stares big time at receivers to really ridiculous levels.  He's just about always staring right at his intended target. 

Doesn't seem to go through progressions much, mostly a one read QB.

Doesn't throw with anticipation typically with the exception of the deep ball

Doesn't have great touch in the short passing game

When the pocket breaks down, his instinct is to take off and run versus keeping his eyes downfield so he could still throw the ball

In the pros, he won't be able to get away with running up the A gap which he seemed to like to do in college.  He will eventually get hurt if he plays like that

 

I am intrigued by Lance, but these are the worst kind of cons...

[Skinsinparadise]

12 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said:

 

I am intrigued by Lance, but these are the worst kind of cons...

 

Lance to me comes off as a strong armed-fast QB but very unpolished.  He relies a lot on his legs.   I could be wrong but i think you go Lamar Jackson style with him at the beginning.  

 

Justin Fields IMO comes off a mile more polished and pro ready. 

[Riggo#44]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Lance to me comes off as a strong armed-fast QB but very unpolished.  He relies a lot on his legs.   I could be wrong but i think you go Lamar Jackson style with him at the beginning.  

 

Justin Fields IMO comes off a mile more polished and pro ready. 

 

Fully agree, Lance needs to sit the 1st year. I would be perfectly content with him sitting behind Kyle Allen (or whomever) for all of next year. But if he hits...

 

[Anselmheifer]

Lance really makes me nervous. I don’t want a one read QB that stares down his receivers but can run. 
 

I’d much rather trade up and get fields or Lawrence, or stay out and take a top 5 talent at another position. 
 

People complain terribly about how much it cost to trade up for RGIII. But we were really hamstrung by a salary cap penalty in the years following that selection and even with that salary cap penalty, we looked like huge winners in that trade until the injury. 
 

Fields has convinced me. His ball placement and touch are great. He’s accurate all over the field. He’s very mobile. I wouldn’t mind a big trade up to get our QB of the future.

[Warhead36]

If you're convinced Fields or whoever else is the guy you trade up to get him. You don't mess around when it comes to QBs. The Chiefs traded up for Mahomes. The Texans traded up for Watson. The Ravens traded up for Jackson. The Bills traded up for Allen.

[mhd24]

6 hours ago, KDawg said:

Fields. I can’t say it enough. I just don’t think we’re going to get the chance to draft him

Need the Jags to start winning.  Its looks bad on that front.

Just now, Warhead36 said:

If you're convinced Fields or whoever else is the guy you trade up to get him. You don't mess around when it comes to QBs. The Chiefs traded up for Mahomes. The Texans traded up for Watson. The Ravens traded up for Jackson. The Bills traded up for Allen.

 

Jets are drafting Lawrence.  Jags are drafting Fields.  Unless Chargers/Bengals/Dolphins (via Texans) get there (they all have their QB of the future), Fields is locked in there.  

[Anselmheifer]

39 minutes ago, mhd24 said:

Need the Jags to start winning.  Its looks bad on that front.

 

Jets are drafting Lawrence.  Jags are drafting Fields.  Unless Chargers/Bengals/Dolphins (via Texans) get there (they all have their QB of the future), Fields is locked in there.  

If this happens, And we have the option, I might take Sewell above the rest of the field. Draft a TE/WR in the 2nd. Sign a WR, TE, LB in FA. Draft a QB next year or sign a vet. I still think this is a team that could make a deep run if we do the above and sign Dak. Still don’t see how the cowboys afford him 

[Burgundy Yoda]

I would be happy with Lawrence, Fields, or Wilson. Trey Lance looks risky to me, I dont want a huge project again at QB. We want a guy who is developmentally sound and one that lives in the film room. 

 

I need to watch more of Zach Wilson but don't judge him too much by his team and the competition, from the little I've seen there were a lot of excellent thrown balls in tight coverage. 

[Burgundy Yoda]

I'm going to catch so much flak for this, but Zach Wilson reminds me of Pat Mahomes. His arm isn't quite as live, but I'm watching him now and he's good, really really good. When I watch the way how he moves around in the pocket, and how he has that pinpoint accuracy even on the move, he has a lot of similarities to Pat. The eye test tells me he's better than Fields. 

[RichmondRedskin88]

1 hour ago, Anselmheifer said:

If this happens, And we have the option, I might take Sewell above the rest of the field. Draft a TE/WR in the 2nd. Sign a WR, TE, LB in FA. Draft a QB next year or sign a vet. I still think this is a team that could make a deep run if we do the above and sign Dak. Still don’t see how the cowboys afford him 

Doesn’t work like that. The next few years don’t have as many good QB prospects after this year unfortunately.

[max21]

9 minutes ago, Burgundy Yoda said:

I'm going to catch so much flak for this, but Zach Wilson reminds me of Pat Mahomes. His arm isn't quite as live, but I'm watching him now and he's good, really really good. The eye test tells me he's better than Fields.

Ehh maybe I need to watch more Wilson. Fields is such an effortless thrower and has all the intangibles to be a franchise QB. His accuracy has been great, make plays out of the pocket, and is a great runner. He’s been an absolute stud from what I’ve watched 

[Burgundy Yoda]

12 minutes ago, max21 said:

Ehh maybe I need to watch more Wilson. Fields is such an effortless thrower and has all the intangibles to be a franchise QB. His accuracy has been great, make plays out of the pocket, and is a great runner. He’s been an absolute stud from what I’ve watched 

I'm not saying Fields isn't good, hes a good player for sure but the question is how good? I would absolutely take him before Lance, no questions asked but im not sure I would take him top 5. His completion percentage is off the charts but once again these Ohio State WRs are running wide open all game and he seemingly has all day to throw. Its extremely hard to evaluate Ohio State QBs because not only are their teams superior in talent, they also run an extremely friendly QB system. 

 

I was impressed with Wilson's ball placement with tight coverage on his receivers. It looks like he's challenged more in games, throwing against tighter coverage, under more pressure, etc. Id still like to watch more of both though and see Fields against tougher competition. 

[Skinsinparadise]