2021 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[DWinzit]

27 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

The only reason they didn't have competition last year was he didn't let it occur. 

Whether they bring in a rookie or not, I don't see then not starting Fitz

17 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

In other words, If we draft a T he will be a G.

If not, he is a T 

[Skinsinparadise]

26 minutes ago, HigSkin said:

 

 

Yea, a little steep on the comparison but checking out QB School cuts what strikes me is 1) how much better he got game to game and 2) he throws in to a lot of tight coverage

 

 

1. Touch: Mills has a great touch on the ball, meaning he can make all the finesse throws. He can loft it perfectly over the defender, and he can place it perfectly to the sideline over the top, the only issue is his consistency. If Davis can fix his consistency issues, he can and will be an effective passer in the NFL.
2. Arm Strength: Davis Mills has a surprisingly strong arm. When stepping up in the pocket, he can deliver a laser over the middle. Outside of the pocket, he can fling the ball with a flick of his wrist. Physical traits will never be an issue for this former five star quarterback. He has all the tools to be great, but the question is can he put it all together?
3. Athletic (Enough): Davis Mills can and should be identified as a pocket passer, but he can execute a few quarterback runs. He is surprisingly fast at times, and athletic enough to shake off a defender or two and deliver a strike. Davis should not be asked to be a Patrick Mahomes or a Josh Allen, but has similar athleticism to Matthew Stafford.

Cons

1. Ball Placement: As great of an arm as Mills has, his ball placement can be shaky. On pressured throws, or throws in general, he tends to put the ball too high or too low for the receiver, either resulting a drop or loss of YAC. Mills has the ability to place it well, as you can see him do it on tape, but the issue is consistency with those throws.
2. Consistency: This is the biggest issue for Davis Mills, and what really pushes him out of the top 5 quarterback conversation. Davis has all the talent and mechanics in the world, but his consistency is just not there. In one quarter he can look like the next All-Pro, but in the very next quarter he can look un-draft able. Davis needs to fins some consistency to last in the NFL, as a starter or as a backup.
3. Decision Making: This is once again a topic that is dependent on consistency. At times, Mills makes decisive throws that seem to be the right throws, but at other times he can make boneheaded decisions that severely hurt his team. This is an issue that can be cleaned up by a good QB coach, along side sitting for an extended period of time. If Davis can halt these consistency issues, he has a shot to become great.

 

I have to watch him more.  I agree with most of this but not all from what I saw so thus far.  But I do like O'Sullivan, I watch his cut ups from time to time on QBs. 

 

As for touch, I've commented on this.  Of the QBs I watched, he has the best touch on his throws.  He throws a very catchable ball.   He varies his speeds well.  for me that was his best trait.

 

I disagree  on the arm strength.  To me it looks decent, maybe slightly above average, but it didn't hit me to be a rocket.  Having said that, whenever I say I saw so and so QB throw in a live game -- a big part of what I am trying to say is nothing beats seeing arm strength/velocity than a live game.  It beats TV.   So I haven't seen Mills that way.  It's one of the benefits in the mix for teams to go to pro days.

 

His decision making and consistency is what turns me off.   Can he work his way through that?  Maybe.

 

I disagree that his athleticism is similar to Stafford from the context of dextrity in the pocket.  Stafford can really move around in the pocket via footwork that I don't see from Mills.  But I'd agree as for raw speed.  Mills looks faster than Stafford when taking off. 

 

 

 

[JamesMadisonSkins]

I would take Field > Lance, but would absolutely love both. And I think we have the flexibility to take Lance and sit him for at least one year.

 

If either one has fallen past Carolina, which I can't see ... I would trade up for them in a heartbeat. I would similarly ttrade up for Sewell if he fell about that far as well. I don't anticipate both being there though. Otherwise I'm trying to trade off #19 if Darrisaw isn't there ... but I don't know who could be there to make it worth trading up for for another team.

[Going Commando]

Fields is getting Lamar Jacksoned.  Jackson was a polarizing prospect too, but he's proven that QBs like him can be stars and lead contenders.  Fields would elevate San Francisco so much.  It's the perfect situation for him and he's a great prospect for them, they would be crazy to pass on him.

[JamesMadisonSkins]

4 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

Fields is getting Lamar Jacksoned.  Jackson was a polarizing prospect too, but he's proven that QBs like him can be stars and lead contenders.  Fields would elevate San Francisco so much.  It's the perfect situation for him and he's a great prospect for them, they would be crazy to pass on him.

 

There's a ton of smoke on Jones at #3 and it doesn't really make sense for SF to smokescreen out of that pick or anything ...

 

But at the end of the day I would still put $$ on it being Fields at #3 ... maybe Lance. Jones would be just such a surprise, especially with all the picks that were sacrificed.

 

IF ... IF ... SF goes Jones ... that would really throw the draft through a loop.

[Burgundy Yoda]

 

Not sure if this has been posted yet. I don't think there's any chance Mond is there in the 3rd, if we want Mond or Mills we will have to take them in the 2nd, even potentially trade up for them. 

[Going Commando]

I'm good with the talk of guys like Mills and Mond going in the second, because I think it means we're going to get Trask in the fourth.

 

That guy is a big-bodied, big-handed workhorse who can hang tough and handle pressure, bounce back from mistakes, navigate pocket mud, and drop dimes better than the other third tier QBs demonstrated.  And I don't think he's done getting better either, he made such a massive leap from 2019 to 2020 that it shows he's a late bloomer who is in the midst of his growth period.  He's a better version of one of my previous late round favorites, Big Hands Minshew.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

 

 

25 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

Fields is getting Lamar Jacksoned.  Jackson was a polarizing prospect too, but he's proven that QBs like him can be stars and lead contenders.  Fields would elevate San Francisco so much.  It's the perfect situation for him and he's a great prospect for them, they would be crazy to pass on him.

 

Yeah Fields is really being beat up.  Wonder if its smoke screen or all this turns him into a faller.

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, RWJ said:

Something to consider.  Mills has had multiple knee injuries.  I don't know if they required surgery.  I can do further investigation on that but he did blow away NFL teams at his Pro Day.  I am always gun shy on QBs or players for that matter than have had injuries such as this and taking them other than maybe 3rd/4th rounds.  Just something to think about. 

You mean Mills?

 

Yeah lol I do that from time to time.  The Giants years ago drafted a dude called Davis Webb.  So on occasion I screw up the name but that Davis QB.

[KDawg]

The Fields stuff is fascinating. It’s not based on film or workouts in shorts, that’s for sure.

[seantaylor=god]

I hope we are communicating with teams to lay the framework for a possible trade up. If Carolina and Denver passes on him we could try and trade with Minnesota to get in front of the Patriots.

[JamesMadisonSkins]

Even if the Fields stuff is somewhat true and teams aren't high on him ... I don't really see any way that it benefits us. I have run through many custom-mock drafts to see how things play out ... and we'd essentially need:

 

1. Jets to trade pick to Carolina and pass on going QB to biuld around Darnold

2. 49ers to pick Mac Jones

3. Garappolo traded to New England

4. Atlanta taking Pitts or trading #4 pick to Denver

 

If that all follows suit, then ...

 

1. JAX- Lawrence

2. CAR - Wilson

3. SF - Jones

4. ATL - Pitts

5. CIN - Sewell

6. MIA - Chase

7. DET - Waddle

8. NYJ - Slater

9. DEN - Fields/Lance

10. DAL - Surtain

11. NYG - Parsons

12. PHI - Smith

13. LAC - Darrisaw

14. MIN - AVT

15. NE - JOK

16. ARI - Farley

17. OAK - ?

18. MIA - Phillips?

19. WAS - Lance/Fields

 

Now there's close to a 0% chance any of this actually happens. And even in this scenario, I think it would be hard for Giants/Philly/Minnesota/NE/Oakland to all pass on Fields or Lance even without a strong "need" at QB.

 

BUT, I guess what this scenario COULD do is open up the opportunity to trade up with LAC at #13 if Lance/Fields is still there, and only have to part with maybe our 3rds.

 

Again, that is a scenario that really only presents itself if the first 4 things happen. Otherwise I don't see any of the Top 5 QBs making it out of the Top 10.

[Koolblue13]

Yes, Collins is our guy!

[Warhead36]

Even if he's a faller Fields won't fall to 19. At best he falls to like 9 ish and Denver takes him. If he falls past 9, there is no way New England lets him go.

[JoggingGod]

4 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Even if he's a faller Fields won't fall to 19. At best he falls to like 9 ish and Denver takes him. If he falls past 9, there is no way New England lets him go.

That's why you trade up then

[JamesMadisonSkins]

4 minutes ago, JoggingGod said:

That's why you trade up then

 

In theory. But Dallas, NYG and Philly won't trade with us to let us get Fields.

 

So we have to hope they don't trade with another team that wants a falling Fields (Chicago, New England, any of the Pittsburgh/New Orleans/etc. group).

 

If 1-2-3 goes Lawrence - Wilson - Jones and Carolina takes Fields/Lance then you have to hope Denver passes ... or the NFC East doesn't trade out for someone coming in. I don't see Fields making it to #13, but if he does, then you make the move with LAC or MIN to leapfrog NE. Unless, of course, NE has traded for Garoppolo.

[HigSkin]

1 hour ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

I'm good with the talk of guys like Mills and Mond going in the second, because I think it means we're going to get Trask in the fourth.

 

That guy is a big-bodied, big-handed workhorse who can hang tough and handle pressure, bounce back from mistakes, navigate pocket mud, and drop dimes better than the other third tier QBs demonstrated.  And I don't think he's done getting better either, he made such a massive leap from 2019 to 2020 that it shows he's a late bloomer who is in the midst of his growth period.  He's a better version of one of my previous late round favorites, Big Hands Minshew.

 

You'd like this listen from Sheehan.  He's a fan of Trask.  He thinks we could ride with Fitz this year and next not worrying about having to start a guy unless they're specifically targeting but thinks they're looking round 3-7 if at all.

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

2 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

Davis's speed is legit.  He beat Elijah Moore to the edge too, remember that play?  The one where I commented that Rondale would have gotten that edge...

 

 

 

lol, I didn't recall it.  but you got me to find that game and I watched most of it just now in a condensed version, I still missed that play though racing through it but I looked.  What a crazy game that was.  Extra point being the difference. 

 

Mingo is going to be another good Old Miss Wr.   Yebolah who I know you like too has to be the most slept on TE in this draft IMO.  I don't know if he's the best among that 2nd tier group but IMO he belongs in that conversation as much just a step behind.  And I think I like him over Long. 

 

I could see Davis range though in that game including them using him in the slot.  I looked up his stats, he had 119 reps in the slot.  Zaven Collins who is touted for his coverage skills had for comparison just 24 reps out of the slot.

 

Davis IMO fits today's game type of LB well.  A dude who can help stop wheel routes and screens and who isn't in big trouble if they have to cover a RB lining up wide or an extra receiver in the slot in spread formations, etc.   He's not an old school thumper like a Ray Lewis type.  But he tackles well in space.  

 

I think he has potential too as a blitzer.  I know some here say they don't care if our linebackers can rush or not.  But for me, I think it adds to the chaos you are trying to bring to disrupt an offense.   When Holcomb sneaks up close to the line of scrimmage where he's threatening a double A blitz or whatever, I doubt it evokes fear in the offensive line.  But if you got Chase coming from the weak side and on the strong side lets say you got Montez Sweat stacked with Jamin Davis right behind him -- I think it would add to offenses worrying about picking their poison.  Davis seems very comfortable chasing the passer.  And i like that as gravy to the mix of his tools. 

 

I also like players who play with contagious type fire and he has that from what I've observed.  Is he my top pick at 19?  Nope.  But I like him.  For me its hopefully Darrisaw at 19.

51 minutes ago, HigSkin said:

 

You'd like this listen from Sheehan.  He's a fan of Trask.  He thinks we could ride with Fitz this year and next not worrying about having to start a guy unless they're specifically targeting but thinks they're looking round 3-7 if at all.

 

 

I've listened to a lot of Sheehan on the topic.  His best guess is they don't take anyone.  Keim though thinks they do if one of their targets is there.

[Going Commando]

2 hours ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

 

There's a ton of smoke on Jones at #3 and it doesn't really make sense for SF to smokescreen out of that pick or anything ...

 

But at the end of the day I would still put $$ on it being Fields at #3 ... maybe Lance. Jones would be just such a surprise, especially with all the picks that were sacrificed.

 

IF ... IF ... SF goes Jones ... that would really throw the draft through a loop.

 

The reason they might smokescreen is because they don't want the Jets to pick Fields at #2.

 

Fields is who I think they traded up for, and the reason why everything is so confusing is because I think they screwed up and made the trade too early.  Would have made more sense to wait until draft day to make the trade, in order to make sure the player they want was actually on the board.  No one was going to beat that god father offer they made to Miami.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

Some of McShay's picks

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/draft2021/insider/story/_/id/31165378/nfl-mock-draft-2021-todd-mcshay-predictions-all-64-picks-rounds-1-2-plus-where-seven-qbs-land

 

11. New England Patriots (via mock trade with NYG)

Justin Fields, QB, Ohio State

Even after the Niners' move up the board, it doesn't appear Jimmy Garoppolo is in the cards this season for the Patriots. And while they brought back Cam Newton, the veteran is only signed for a year at $3.5 million guaranteed. The Pats haven't spent a first-round pick on a QB since 1993 (Drew Bledsoe), but now is the time. Fields is accurate downfield and can develop into a top-tier starter for a team searching for stability at the position in the post-Tom Brady era.

 

15. New York Giants (via mock trade with NE)

Jeremiah Owusu-Koramoah, ILB, Notre Dame

I wouldn't be surprised to see the Giants look at USC guard Alijah Vera-Tucker, but they just took three linemen in the first five rounds last year, including Andrew Thomas at No. 4 overall. And while the defense was stellar last season, getting defensive coordinator Patrick Graham a versatile, rangy, fast, instinctive linebacker like Owusu-Koramoah will help keep it that way.

 

19. Washington Football Team

Christian Darrisaw, OT, Virginia Tech

The signing of Curtis Samuel means Washington likely won't take Florida receiver Kadarius Toney, who has a similar skill set, and there really isn't another receiver in this range. Other big-need areas don't have any value here either, including quarterback, linebacker and tight end. I think it's slightly early for Darrisaw -- a smooth and powerful zone blocker -- but he is certainly one of the top tackles, and Washington would be able to beat the OT rush that likely begins toward the end of Round 1.

 

23. New York Jets (via SEA)

Travis Etienne, RB, Clemson

With Wilson being the pick at No. 2, New York now has to help him out. I liked the Jets bringing in Corey Davis and Keelan Cole Sr., but this is another potential spot for Terrace Marshall Jr. or perhaps Ole Miss' Elijah Moore. And don't rule out an offensive tackle like Teven Jenkins (Oklahoma State). I'm going with Etienne, though. He has breakaway speed and can catch passes out of the backfield. The Jets need a true game-changer at running back, and he's exactly that, scoring 78 touchdowns from scrimmage over his time at Clemson.

 

24. Pittsburgh Steelers

Najee Harris, RB, Alabama

Teven Jenkins is tempting here. He's a mauler on the offensive line, and the Steelers must rebuild that unit from the ground up. Ultimately, I went in a different direction because the lineman class is deep -- I have more than a dozen in this mock -- and running back is just as much of a concern. Harris is a powerful back who is nearly impossible to stop between the tackles. The Steelers' 3.6 yards per carry ranked dead last in the NFL last season, and it doesn't appear that James Conner is returning, currently leaving the rushing to an unproven group of Benny Snell Jr., Anthony McFarland Jr., Kalen Ballage and Jaylen Samuels. Let's get an impact running back.

 

27. Baltimore Ravens

Terrace Marshall Jr., WR, LSU

The Ravens were the only team in the NFL with fewer than 2,000 passing yards when targeting wide receivers last season -- they were well short of even the second-worst team at 1,729 yards -- and their current solve is adding Sammy Watkins, who hasn't played 16 games since his 2014 rookie season and hasn't broken 700 yards since 2015. So while a pass-rusher could be in play with Matthew Judon and Yannick Ngakoue departing Baltimore, this one is a no-brainer for me. Marshall has 6-foot-4 size, is explosive downfield and caught 10 TDs last season for LSU.

 

28. New Orleans Saints

Elijah Moore, WR, Ole Miss

The cap-strapped Saints roster took a hit in March, with multiple impact players heading elsewhere for more money or, in the case of Drew Brees, retiring. Will it be Jameis Winston or Taysom Hill at quarterback -- or both? Regardless, New Orleans has to have more weapons in the pass game, especially with Emmanuel Sanders and Jared Cook not coming back. Moore operates mainly out of the slot, and he has the hands and burst to pick up big chunks of yardage. He was second in the nation to DeVonta Smith in catches and yards last season.

---

29. Green Bay Packers

Jamin Davis, ILB, Kentucky

Davis could replace Christian Kirksey, who signed with the Texans. He is an off-the-ball linebacker who can impact multiple facets of the defense, and he's a very good tackler in space. As for the WR-sized elephant in the room, Louisville's Tutu Atwell and Minnesota's Rashod Bateman are worth a look, but this class is deep, and Davis' game could be perfect for the Green Bay defense.

 

32. Tampa Bay Buccaneers

Zaven Collins, OLB, Tulsa

It's best available player for a team that is returning all of its starters from a Super Bowl-winning roster. Collins is a 3-4 OLB who could replace Jason Pierre-Paul if the Bucs don't bring him back in 2022. He sneaks in to close Round 1, marking Tulsa's only first-round pick in the common draft era (since 1967).

[Anselmheifer]

12 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

lol, I didn't recall it.  but you got me to find that game and I watched most of it just now in a condensed version, I still missed that play though racing through it but I looked.  What a crazy game that was.  Extra point being the difference. 

 

Mingo is going to be another good Old Miss Wr.   Yebolah who I know you like too has to be the most slept on TE in this draft IMO.  I don't know if he's the best among that 2nd tier group but IMO he belongs in that conversation as much just a step behind.  And I think I like him over Long. 

 

I could see Davis range though in that game including them using him in the slot.  I looked up his stats, he had 119 reps in the slot.  Zaven Collins who is touted for his coverage skills had for comparison just 24 reps out of the slot.

 

Davis IMO fits today's game type of LB well.  A dude who can help stop wheel routes and screens and who isn't in big trouble if they have to cover a RB lining up wide or an extra receiver in the slot in spread formations, etc.   He's not an old school thumper like a Ray Lewis type.  But he tackles well in space.  

 

I think he has potential too as a blitzer.  I know some here say they don't care if our linebackers can rush or not.  But for me, I think it adds to the chaos you are trying to bring to disrupt an offense.   When Holcomb sneaks up close to the line of scrimmage where he's threatening a double A blitz or whatever, I doubt it evokes fear in the offensive line.  But if you got Chase coming from the weak side and on the strong side lets say you got Montez Sweat stacked with Jamin Davis right behind him -- I think it would add to offenses worrying about picking their poison.  Davis seems very comfortable chasing the passer.  And i like that as gravy to the mix of his tools. 

 

I also like players who play with contagious type fire and he has that from what I've observed.  Is he my top pick at 19?  Nope.  But I like him.  For me its hopefully Darrisaw at 19.

 

Youre getting me more hyped re Jamin Davis. 
 

I also agree about adding a blitzer. It makes us less predictable. It might help compensate for losing Kerrigan. It helps add chaos and is going to draw help away from the rest of the DL. 
 

I wonder how many snaps JOK played in the slot. That’s a guy that could really positively affect our coverage. I heard on a podcast that he didn’t run the 40 at his pro day because he wanted to show he could bulk up but was worried about posting a less optimal time at that weight. I think that if Darius Leonard can play at 215, so can JOK. 
 

What I like about Jamin is that he improves both our run defense and our coverage. 

[Skinsinparadise]

4 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

Youre getting me more hyped re Jamin Davis. 
 

I also agree about adding a blitzer. It makes us less predictable. It might help compensate for losing Kerrigan. It helps add chaos and is going to draw help away from the rest of the DL. 
 

I wonder how many snaps JOK played in the slot. That’s a guy that could really positively affect our coverage. I heard on a podcast that he didn’t run the 40 at his pro day because he wanted to show he could bulk up but was worried about posting a less optimal time at that weight. I think that if Darius Leonard can play at 215, so can JOK. 
 

What I like about Jamin is that he improves both our run defense and our coverage. 

 

Agree about Jamin.

 

As for JOK if I recall he played 300 plus in the slot -- by far the most among LBs.  He's IMO a borderline elite player in the slot.

 

When I read this quote from Mullen below my first thought raced to JOK.    Pitts is unstoppable.    You'd need IMO either an elite type slot player or an elite corner with size to have a prayer to even slow him down. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

After Darrisaw, it might be Jenkins for me followed by Cosmi.  Jenkins would be fun.  Him and Scherff run blocking...

 

 

 

 

 

[Anselmheifer]

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

When I read this quote from Mullen below my first thought raced to JOK.    Pitts is unstoppable.    You'd need IMO either an elite type slot player or an elite corner with size to have a prayer to even slow him down. 

 

I think the best way to allow down Pitts is with an elite pass rush. And you put William Jackson III on him. I just hope he doesn’t wind up in the NFCE. 
 

I think JOK a has ELITE short area speed but I don’t know that he has elite deep speed to run with Pitts down the field. And JOK and Jamin both have very good length for LB’s, but almost nobody has the length to defend Pitts. JOK and  Jamin both have arms longer than 33”. That’s better than most of the OT class. 
 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]