2021 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[Koolblue13]

5 minutes ago, KDawg said:

"He holds the ball a little after his first read".

That is completely true.

[Anselmheifer]

6 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

Pre-Draft overthinking syndrome. It's classic around this time of year.

 

Same with all the Fields stuff. It's crazy.

 

Again, Russini this morning ACTUALLY SAID... "He holds the ball a little after his first read".

 

Maybe that's not what she meant... But that comes across as very agenda driven drivel.  What's he supposed to do after his first read? Drop the ball? If she meant simply, "he holds the ball a bit long after he progresses through his reads" I'd understand the sentiment even though that's true of basically every QB prospect ever. 

 

Sewell is very likely overall #1 in my opinion. The fact that he didn't play this year has made people forget. Slater is excellent, though.

I agree with all of this. 
 

And Sewell should be taken super high. Some team is going to be really lucky to take him at 5 or 6. If he has any substantial fall, I’d move up.

[Panninho]

If either Mills or Mond are the QB on day 2 guy (that Keim keeps taking about) that our front office likes, it seems that we will have to be ready to invest our 2nd round pick.

 

 

[HigSkin]

23 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I have to watch him more.  My initial impression is decent arm strength but not great, decent accuracy but some odd misses and bad decisions -- his mobility is OK.   Nothing jumps at me about him.  I'd take him over Trask and some of the other 2nd tier QBs but I am not excited about him.    I watched a few of his interviews, comes off boring without much personality but also comes off smart which I'd expect him to be coming from Stanford.

 

I'd go Mond over him because of greater upside but I don't love him either.

 

All true and agree with all you say.  I think a lot of folks were on him after his pro day.  He's seems polished and definitely has the prototypical size.  I've seen his comparison to Matt Stafford so there's that.  LOL  

[Skinsinparadise]

With Jamin Davis, the work he has to do IMO as I said the other day is diagnosing plays more quickly where he's not relying so much on his recovery speed but I think that can come in time.    He tackles with ferocity and can really move both forward and back.

 

I read somewhere they put him on Pitts on occasion and did ok against him.  I found one of those plays.  You can see Pitts having a leg up initially and Davis closing in on him. 

 

 

[KDawg]

Davis can close on Pitts easily there because of ball flight time and angle. That doesn't necessarily mean he can keep pace with him.

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

Need to see video, but looks like the fault their lies with Trask.  He's probably late on that throw.

[Burgundy Yoda]

3 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

Our pass defense may have been a bit overrated because of playing some mediocre passers, I'll grant that. But I don't think our run defense was necessarily much better than its ranking. Those QBs who ran against us ran for a bunch of yards against many other opponents as well. And perhaps Payne and Allen just work well together, because individually neither of them is elite. They had the most stops but they didn't grade out as great against the run according to the same source as above. Payne was good and was ranked 18th out of interior DL vs the run. Allen was pretty meh and was in the 50s. Neither is elite.

 

I'm not saying I don't care about coverage for a LB. I do and I want a guy who can cover, as we've been pretty substandard when it comes to defending shallow routes where LBs are covering. Tom Brady basically said it himself and that's how they attacked us. But overall our run defense wasn't great and we need a guy who can also go downhill and fill gaps in the run game. Hopefully we'll be able to pick a guy at 19 who fits both of those things and is a true 3 down backer.

Yeah, that's possible when it comes to both Payne and Allen, either they work well together or maybe they got stops but a lot of them are 3+ yards down the field. I can see that potentially being why they graded out as average. Allen in the 50s seems crazy to me, they're essentially saying he's terrible at it. I don't have access to the advanced PFF stats, just their grades and the regular stats like tackles, sacks, and ints. 

 

I'd love for us to draft an elite off-ball LBer, I cant even remember the last time we drafted one that was getting All-Pro votes. I've been on board with us getting a 2nd CB that excels in man-coverage too to go with WJIII, that Bucs game opened my eyes. 

[Burgundy Yoda]

There's a breakdown of that play and Jamin sticks his hand out and blocks Pitts's vision. It looks like it could have potentially made him lose sight of the ball, I thought it was a pretty good play in coverage vs Pitts. There's just no way to continually win against a guy like Pitts, he's going to get his. 

[Koolblue13]

Our run defense is bad because LBers and the SS can't fill a freaking hole, not because of our line. 

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

46 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

Sewell is very likely overall #1 in my opinion. The fact that he didn't play this year has made people forget. Slater is excellent, though.

Not when the same could be said about Slater.  Neither played in 2020.

 

For the record, still haven't watched Sewell.  I love Slater as a prospect but he's not squeaky clean himself.

 

[KDawg]

Just now, Alcoholic Zebra said:

Not when the same could be said about Slater.  Neither played in 2020.

 

The convo on Sewell is more stale. People have been talking him up for years. Slater is the new kid on the block. New and shiny vs. old and shiny

2 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Our run defense is bad because LBers and the SS can't fill a freaking hole, not because of our line. 

Quoted for emphasis. No one wants to believe me when I’ve been saying this for 3 years. And a handful of others like yourself. It’s about the DL somehow at all times.

[Koolblue13]

5 minutes ago, KDawg said:

The convo on Sewell is more stale. People have been talking him up for years. Slater is the new kid on the block. New and shiny vs. old and shiny

Quoted for emphasis. No one wants to believe me when I’ve been saying this for 3 years. And a handful of others like yourself. It’s about the DL somehow at all times.

Sweat, Payne and Allen are probably the best combo in the league. Young too impressively. RBs end up with only one gap to get through and there is never anyone there for us. It's insane how obvious it is. 

 

We need a big bully behind our line.

[Skinsinparadise]

5 minutes ago, HigSkin said:

 

All true and agree with all you say.  I think a lot of folks were on him after his pro day.  He's seems polished and definitely has the prototypical size.  I've seen his comparison to Matt Stafford so there's that.  LOL  

 

Stafford wow that's nuts IMO.  Stafford has a rifle.  Davis doesn't.  Stafford IMO showcased more off platform throws and mobility.   Davis on occasion makes a nice off platform throw, maybe he can develop that part of his game?

[Skinsinparadise]

36 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Davis can close on Pitts easily there because of ball flight time and angle. That doesn't necessarily mean he can keep pace with him.

 

Watching Davis play, I think his low 4.4 speed timed yesterday was as legit as Pitts timed speed yesterday was or close enough.  Would i bet on him or anyone covering Pitts, nope.  It would be hard to find a bigger fan of Pitts here.  He was the first guy I touted before the college season. 

[Fresh8686]

Some Sleepers according to Dane Brugler. There are some interesting prospects and a couple guys on here we've mentioned in this thread. There is also a Cole Holcomb reference for a guy I've had my eye on from Iowa.

 

Quote

However, I think all 10 prospects on this list have a legitimate case to be selected on Day 3 of the NFL Draft and carve out sustainable professional careers.

10. Jalen Camp, WR, Georgia Tech (6-foot-2, 226 pounds)

Although his receiving resume is rather unimpressive (48 career catches), Camp is a remarkable athlete coming off his most productive season at the college level. His freaky traits earned him a spot on Bruce Feldman’s offseason Freaks List, and he backed that up with a head-turning pro day performance. He ran a 4.45 40-yard dash and 4.14 in the short shuttle, jumped 39.5 inches in the vertical and added 29 bench press reps.

However, the main reason Camp has a chance to stick on an NFL roster is his ability to shine on all four special-teams coverages. He has not only the physical profile but also the mentality to make plays on special teams. Georgia Tech head coach Geoff Collins: “He values playing special teams at a very high level and he does it unselfishly.”

9. Chris Garrett, edge, Concordia-St. Paul (6-foot-3, 245 pounds)

For an NFL team looking to take a chance on a productive late-round pass rusher, Garrett could be the guy. In 28 college games, he posted 48.5 tackles for loss, 36.5 sacks and 15 forced fumbles – and his senior season was canceled because of the pandemic, so he didn’t have the chance to add to those already impressive numbers.

Garrett made the strip-sack an art. He has the play quickness to infiltrate the pocket, but instead of looking to steamroll the quarterback, he finds the football and punches it loose to create turnovers. His 15 forced fumbles are a Division II record, and his 1.3 sacks per game rank No. 3 all-time in Division II history.

8. Sam Cooper, OG, Merrimack (6-foot-2, 305 pounds)

Another intriguing “small school” prospect, Cooper was born in Nigeria and picked up football in high school after moving to the United States. He has endured several tragedies in his life, with the death of his brother to cancer in 2006 and the murder of his father in Nigeria in 2009. Their memories are what drive Cooper to be the best football player possible when he steps onto the field.

Cooper is not only an inspiring story but also a really talented player, dominating at the FCS level. He blocks with a wide base, bent knees and tight hands to connect and control defenders. With 33 1/8-inch arms, Cooper put together a strong pro day: He posted solid numbers in the 40-yard dash (5.15), vertical (29.5 inches), 3-cone (7.69) and bench press (35).

7. Shemar Jean-Charles, CB, Appalachian State (5-foot-10, 180 pounds)

After two seasons as a subpackage corner, Jean-Charles became a starter as a junior and logged 27 passes defended over 26 games the last two years. He had only one interception in 2020, but he led the FBS in passes defended (17) as a senior.

Jean-Charles plays with confidence and route anticipation, which allows his instincts and preparation to kick in and lead him to plays. He isn’t an elite size/speed/strength athlete, which will ding up on most boards around the league. But Jean-Charles is a “right place, right time” type of player, and his balance in coverage allows him to disrupt passing lanes.

6. Kene Nwangwu, RB, Iowa State (6-foot-0, 210 pounds)

Stuck in the shadows of David Montgomery and Breece Hall at Iowa State, Nwangwu was productive when he was given carries, averaging 5.2 per rush attempt in his career. On special teams, he set the school record for kickoff return average (26.85) on 92 career returns and ranks No. 3 all-time in Big 12 history with 2,470 kick-return yards.

Nwangwu was a state champion in track in high school, with a 10.54 time in the 100 meters and 6-foot, 10-inch high jump. And those numbers translated to his pro day. At 210 pounds, Nwangwu impressed in the 40-yard dash (4.31), 10-yard split (1.45), vertical (38-inches), 3-cone (6.83) and bench press (22 reps). A premier athlete and special-teams stud? It shouldn’t shock anyone if he hears his name called on draft weekend.

5. Avery Williams, CB, Boise State (5-foot-8, 196 pounds)

I don’t ever remember seeing a special-teams resume quite like what Williams put together in four seasons at Boise State. He was responsible for nine touchdowns on special teams, including five punt returns, three kick returns and one blocked punt. Williams also had five blocks on special teams (three punts, one field goal and one extra point) and a forced fumble on kickoff coverage.

On defense, he doesn’t have ideal size, length or explosive traits, but he is a resilient nickel prospect, and special-teams coordinators around the NFL will be pounding the table to work with him.

4. Darius Hodge, edge, Marshall (6-foot-1, 248 pounds)

Hodge had several Power 5 programs after him out of high school, but academic issues put him on a different course. He landed at Marshall, where he led the team in tackles for loss and sacks each of the last two seasons and set the school record for sacks in a game (4.5).

Although he doesn’t have ideal height, Hodge’s arms measured 34 3/8, which are longer than most 6-foot-4 pass rushers. His low stature and natural flexibility allow him to contort his frame, which makes him an elusive, squirmy target for blockers. He also has a knack for blocking punts with seven as a senior in high school and two at Marshall. Hodge needs to add more discipline to his game, but he refuses to stay blocked and his length and athletic twitch are intriguing foundational traits.

3. Larnel Coleman, OT, Massachusetts (6-foot-6, 307 pounds)

A basketball-first athlete most of his life, Coleman was a tight end and defensive end in high school and moved to offensive tackle at UMass. After starting at right tackle as a sophomore, he moved to the left side the last two seasons when he was also a team captain.

Coleman has length for days and lasts on an island due to his quickness and body flexibility. He is still very raw in areas and needs to learn how to weaponize his long arms and improve his timing to control defenders. But his issues are mostly coachable, and he is an ideal developmental tackle for a patient coaching staff because of his size, athleticism and character.

2. Nick Niemann, LB, Iowa (6-foot-3, 234 pounds)

Iowa is known for producing overachieving linebackers who end up surpassing expectations in the NFL (Ben Niemann, Christian Kirksey, Anthony Hitchens, Josey Jewell). And Niemann (Ben’s younger brother) could be next.

Niemann led the Hawkeyes in tackles as a senior, and he posted remarkable numbers at his pro day. He clocked 4.48 in the 40-yard dash and 6.67 in the 3-cone drill. In several ways, Niemann is reminiscent of linebacker Cole Holcomb, who was borderline draftable until his pro day, which elevated him to the fifth round of the 2019 NFL Draft. I don’t know if Niemann will end up like Holcomb, who has 25 starts the past two seasons for the Washington Football Team, but numbers like that have the attention of NFL teams.

1. Jacob Harris, WR/TE, UCF (6-foot-5, 230 pounds)

A candidate to be the first scouting combine snub drafted in April, Harris is one of the more intriguing skill players in this year’s class. He grew up with dreams of playing professional soccer and committed to play collegiate soccer at Florida Gulf Coast. But Harris gave football a chance as a high school senior (with zero previous experience), and something clicked. He left Florida Gulf Coast after one week and spent one season at Western Kentucky as a walk-on. Harris walked on again at UCF and steadily developed into one of the team’s go-to threats, with eight touchdown grabs as a senior.

Harris plays with controlled burst and long strides to challenge defensive backs, and he flashes the potential to run the full tight end route tree. He is an older prospect — he’ll be 24 on draft weekend — and still young in football years, so there will be obvious growing pains in the NFL. But Harris is an ideal developmental tight end because of his size, athleticism and special-teams mentality (10 career tackles in college).

 

 

[RWJ]

2 hours ago, HigSkin said:

 

Mike Renner from PFF the other day on The Junkies said the same thing about Mills.  He doesn't believe he makes it out of the 2nd either so there's some building concensus there.

 

 

Something to consider.  Mills has had multiple knee injuries.  I don't know if they required surgery.  I can do further investigation on that but he did blow away NFL teams at his Pro Day.  I am always gun shy on QBs or players for that matter than have had injuries such as this and taking them other than maybe 3rd/4th rounds.  Just something to think about. 

17 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Stafford wow that's nuts IMO.  Stafford has a rifle.  Davis doesn't.  Stafford IMO showcased more off platform throws and mobility.   Davis on occasion makes a nice off platform throw, maybe he can develop that part of his game?

You mean Mills?

[Going Commando]

5 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Watching Davis play, I think his low 4.4 speed timed yesterday was as legit as Pitts timed speed yesterday was or close enough.  Would i bet on him or anyone covering Pitts, nope.  It would be hard to find a bigger fan of Pitts here.  He was the first guy I touted before the college season. 

 

Davis's speed is legit.  He beat Elijah Moore to the edge too, remember that play?  The one where I commented that Rondale would have gotten that edge...

 

I don't thunk Davis goes first round though.  I am a big fan of his too, and posted about how he was one of the upside plays at LBer that I liked best, but he's only really played big snaps in 10 games in his four years at UK.  That is not a lot of track record to go on.  When you combine that with the precedent that LBers usually get drafted later than draftniks expect, I think he goes in the second round.  He's a fascinating piece of clay but IMO Zaven and Owusu-Koromoah are clearly better than him right now.  Better bets, and they should go off the board first. I just can't see four LBers going round one.

 

I'm worried that Davis has run and jumped his way out of the range I would feel comfortable taking him.  Back to McGrone for me.  Looks like he didn't run the 40 at his Pro Day.  I think he has low 4.5 speed, so I'm kind of glad he didn't run in case he put up some kind of splashy number like Paye or Nico.

 

Baron Browning tore it up, as expected.  But I'm not seeing a lot of buzz here.  Perhaps Fields stole the show from him.  But I also kind of feel like I killed his stock here.  I think it's manifest that he has a lousy football IQ and lousy instincts.  But he's such an incredible athlete and I feel like, if anyone can teach him, it's this coaching staff.  The highs are pretty high with him because of how traitsy he is.  Probably going to be way overdrafted, but if he makes it to day three, then he starts getting interesting.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[RWJ]

6 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Your 10 million dollar QB starts unless he gets injured.  JMO.  

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[HigSkin]

30 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Stafford wow that's nuts IMO.  Stafford has a rifle.  Davis doesn't.  Stafford IMO showcased more off platform throws and mobility.   Davis on occasion makes a nice off platform throw, maybe he can develop that part of his game?

 

 

Yea, a little steep on the comparison but checking out QB School cuts what strikes me is 1) how much better he got game to game and 2) he throws in to a lot of tight coverage

 

 

 

https://thesportswave.net/2021/02/26/davis-mills-scouting-report/

 

Pros

1. Prototypical QB Size: Davis Mills is the size that most people make their quarterback in career mode. Standing at 6’4″ and 225 lbs, Davis Mills meets all the requirements physically to be an NFL quarterback. His size will favor with teams who experience cold and windy weather, and even if he is not a top talent in the league, he can be a backup in the league for a long time.
2. Mechanics: Davis Mills has some of the best mechanics I have seen in this draft pool. His lower body is spaced perfectly, and he really leans into the throw adding an extra bit of velocity. His upper body mechanics are great as well, as his release is smooth, well placed, and wide enough, but not too wide. There will be little mechanical issues to fix for Mills, inside the pocket and outside of it.
3. Touch: Mills has a great touch on the ball, meaning he can make all the finesse throws. He can loft it perfectly over the defender, and he can place it perfectly to the sideline over the top, the only issue is his consistency. If Davis can fix his consistency issues, he can and will be an effective passer in the NFL.
4. Arm Strength: Davis Mills has a surprisingly strong arm. When stepping up in the pocket, he can deliver a laser over the middle. Outside of the pocket, he can fling the ball with a flick of his wrist. Physical traits will never be an issue for this former five star quarterback. He has all the tools to be great, but the question is can he put it all together?
5. Athletic (Enough): Davis Mills can and should be identified as a pocket passer, but he can execute a few quarterback runs. He is surprisingly fast at times, and athletic enough to shake off a defender or two and deliver a strike. Davis should not be asked to be a Patrick Mahomes or a Josh Allen, but has similar athleticism to Matthew Stafford.

Cons

1. Ball Placement: As great of an arm as Mills has, his ball placement can be shaky. On pressured throws, or throws in general, he tends to put the ball too high or too low for the receiver, either resulting a drop or loss of YAC. Mills has the ability to place it well, as you can see him do it on tape, but the issue is consistency with those throws.
2. Consistency: This is the biggest issue for Davis Mills, and what really pushes him out of the top 5 quarterback conversation. Davis has all the talent and mechanics in the world, but his consistency is just not there. In one quarter he can look like the next All-Pro, but in the very next quarter he can look un-draft able. Davis needs to fins some consistency to last in the NFL, as a starter or as a backup.
3. Decision Making: This is once again a topic that is dependent on consistency. At times, Mills makes decisive throws that seem to be the right throws, but at other times he can make boneheaded decisions that severely hurt his team. This is an issue that can be cleaned up by a good QB coach, along side sitting for an extended period of time. If Davis can halt these consistency issues, he has a shot to become great.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

Times flies, I recall the Payne versus Vea debate here like it was yesterday 😀

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

O'Sullivan defending Fields.  Fields is being beat up by some of the talking heads.  I was listening to Kiper/McShay podcast today and they are hearing SF goes either Lance or Jones at #3 but not Fields.

 

 I know Fields has some critics here but personally I am a fan.  I don't think I'd trade the store though to get him but i would be willing to be aggressive at giving it a shot.