2021 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[mhd24]

9 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

Darrisaw falls to us at 19 a lot in mocks.  I think there is a shot he does but I'd bet against it.

 

I have to rewatch Cosmi.  It's been a long time.  I notice the mock drafters have concerns about his ability to anchor as a pass blocker. 

 

From what I recall the two most hyped people here about Tevin Jenkins are me and @stevemcqueen1 unless I am forgetting someone.  Mcqueen was on him first.   I was concerned about his length but coming it at 33.5 I could deal with that.  He plays with such a mean streak -- so much fun to watch as a run blocker.  He had a killer quote the other day about the style he plays with but I couldn't put it here because there were a bunch of expletives in the quote. 

 

Casserly just did a quick snippet on Jenkins:

 

 

[KDawg]

12 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

The 40 time for Zaven for me is dissapointing.  I said about him and Jamin since their narrative is driven to a good extent by their athleticism, their pro days I think will be more relevant than some.

 

Zaven overall had a good pro day.   But the hype about how fast he runs for his size might be overplayed.  Some said in the past he has Urlacher's size but can run faster.    Maybe game speed is a different story.  But judging purely on 40 time, Urlacher ironically was faster than Collins. 

A big part of Zaven’s “on-field” speed is his reaction time. Davis is faster but reacts much slower. 
 

If you want a guy to get sideline to sideline super fast Davis is a better fit. If you want a guy to diagnose and get in position fast it’s Collins. Both have merits. 
 

Put watching their stuff I think Davis plays much slower than Collins. 

[HigSkin]

35 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

I'm seeing Najee and Etienne go in the first in most mocks.  coming to grips with the fact we're not going to get them.

 

 

It's okay.  We'll have our chances day 3 with a guy like this!

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

29 minutes ago, mhd24 said:

 

Casserly just did a quick snippet on Jenkins:

 

 

 

Casserly wasn't a hot drafter but had some hits at O line.  I was listening to him on Keim's podcast today, he's not a fan of Trask and sees him like I do as a backup.  I was surprised to hear that from Casserly because in the past he seems to favor the old school type QBs and I thought had an inflated view of some pocket passers I didn't like myself.

 

Back to Jenkins, he's athletic.  Strong and fast enough.  The type of tackle that is old school in the style he plays like the Hogs.  Impose your will, bull doze defenders.   Potential elite run blocker and anchors well enough in pass protect. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Warhead36]

Dang Collins #s are a bit disappointing considering how superhuman everyone else seems to be at their pro days(which are essentially rigged in the player's favor to begin with).

[Est.1974]

5 minutes ago, KDawg said:

A big part of Zaven’s “on-field” speed is his reaction time. Davis is faster but reacts much slower. 
 

If you want a guy to get sideline to sideline super fast Davis is a better fit. If you want a guy to diagnose and get in position fast it’s Collins. Both have merits. 
 

Put watching their stuff I think Davis plays much slower than Collins. 

I think it’s the other way, Collins doesn’t necessarily diagnoses things quick at all. The most significant difference which is hard to quantify the real value of, is lack of experience for Davis.

 

Said for a while, Collins looks like an OLB/Edge type prospect. Not seeing the exact fit personally.

[mhd24]

5 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Casserly wasn't a hot drafter but had some hits at O line.  I was listening to him on Keim's podcast today, he's not a fan of Trask and sees him like I do as a backup.  I was surprised to hear that from Casserly because in the past he seems to favor the old school type QBs and I thought had an inflated view of some pocket passers I didn't like myself.

 

Back to Jenkins, he's athletic.  Strong and fast enough.  The type of tackle that is old school in the style he plays like the Hogs.  Impose your will, bull doze defenders.   Potential elite run blocker and anchors well enough in pass protect. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I could see us drafting Jenkins.  Tony Pauline thinks Jenkins can easily play LT.  

[Skinsinparadise]

14 minutes ago, KDawg said:

A big part of Zaven’s “on-field” speed is his reaction time. Davis is faster but reacts much slower. 
 

If you want a guy to get sideline to sideline super fast Davis is a better fit. If you want a guy to diagnose and get in position fast it’s Collins. Both have merits. 
 

Put watching their stuff I think Davis plays much slower than Collins. 

 

Sure.  I've mentioned what Davis needs to work on is being quicker to diagnose.  Yeah I am pretty much on the same page.  Jamin is the side line to side line guy -- especially because he's an animal as far as open field tackling IMO. 

 

But disagree that Davis plays much slower than Collins.   But I don't care enough to debate it in part because I don't think either one will be there at our 2nd round pick -- and I want a LT in the first round above a LB.   

[KDawg]

5 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Sure.  I've mentioned what Davis needs to work on is being quicker to diagnose.  Yeah I am pretty much on the same page.  Jamin is the side line to side line guy -- especially because he's an animal as far as open field tackling IMO. 

 

But disagree that Davis plays much slower than Collins.   But I don't care enough to debate it in part because I don't think either one will be there at our 2nd round pick -- and I want a LT in the first round above a LB.   

I wasn't attempting to engage in a debate in the least. I was explaining why the numbers shouldn't disappoint you. Collins was never going to be a 4.5 dude.

 

Who you prefer of the two of them makes a literal no difference to me.

[Burgundy Yoda]

I was definitely expecting in the high 4.5s from Zaven Collins, he looks like a faster player than Bostic (who ran a 4.59). He's even taller than projected too at 6'5". I'd like to see what his agility times were, might give some more indication on his athleticism. 

 

I'm not sure if Zaven has quick reaction times, but I do think Zaven has really good closing speed. His pro-day numbers are looking pretty close to Zach Cunninghams numbers. 

[clskinsfan]

1 hour ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

I'm seeing Najee and Etienne go in the first in most mocks.  coming to grips with the fact we're not going to get them.

 

To me, Pitts is somewhere between Darren Waller and Calvin Johnson.  He is a unique player, but I don't think he's the best non QB in the class.  I would have Sewell and Chase above him.  IMO Sewell and Chase Young and Burrow were the best players in CFB in 2019, and he was only 18/19 years old.  I think he has Hall of Fame upside and believe he is an Orlando Pace caliber of prospect that could go #1 in a year without good QB prospects.  And Chase is still the top skill player for me.  He was dominant as a true sophomore against a slate of early round corners.  Not a single one could match up with him.  I think he is a more gifted version of DeAndre Hopkins.  He's super translatable since he can win with route running, power, toughness, and speed.  Valid to point out what a unique challenge it is to cover Pitts, but I'm not sure how you cover Chase.  I don't think there will be any corners to check him one on one once he hits his prime.

How about Terrace Marshall's 40 time too.  Just getting very strong baby Metcalf vibes from him.  What a panoply of weapons Burrow had in 2019.  I want us to get him, Rondale, or Bateman at 51.

I was down on Metcalf because I thought he was too tight to be a NFL WR. Similar things have been said about Marshall as well.  I was wrong as hell. And I learned my lesson. I love Marshall.

[Skinsinparadise]

1 minute ago, KDawg said:

I wasn't attempting to engage in a debate in the least. I was explaining why the numbers shouldn't disappoint you. Collins was never going to be a 4.5 dude.

 

Who you prefer of the two of them makes a literal no difference to me.

 

In short I see him as a raw prospect with big potential.  Much of that potential is size/speed combination.  My favorite comparison to Collins was Edwards.  T. Edwards though ran in the low 4.5s.  I can take that.  Linebackers who run in the high 4.6's, I've got some concerns about these days when it comes to chasing passing catching running backs in the flat, etc.  And then when I add to the pile that I don't love his open field tackling, it makes me pause. 

 

Surprised he only had 19 reps on the bench.  Urlacher who some compare him to had 27 and Urlacher was also faster.  A skinny dude like Jamin had 24.    Other 230 pound fast guys like Devin White had 22. 

 

Don't get me wrong, he has a good pro day considering his vertical-horizontal numbers were good.  And I bet his RAS score registers sky high considering how much they value size in their formula.   But for me personally his athleticism was a factor more than most players.  And I wanted to see more speed.  Don't hate those metrics by any stretch.  I think they are good.  and I'd bet RAS rates it as great.  But it didn't have the freakish numbers that I was hoping for. 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

41 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Dang Collins #s are a bit disappointing considering how superhuman everyone else seems to be at their pro days(which are essentially rigged in the player's favor to begin with).

 

lol, that's the other part of it, I can see some of these 40 times as being slightly inflated.  4.67 could mean 4.7.  for me the limits on a MLB for today's NFL would be in the high 4.6s just as Collins registered. 

 

If he benched pressed something crazy like Tevin Jenkins did I could take it easier.   But he benched less than a bunch of 230 pound LBs I looked up.  So if he's super stronger its not manifesting in the bench press. 

 

I know athleticism and metrics on pro day aren't the be all and end all.  But for me there were some players, Collins among them, that it was important to see. 

 

And again his vertical/horitzontal numbers were really good.  Not Jamin Davis level good but plenty good enough.  So overall he had a good pro day.  But for me I didn't see the super strength/super speed reputation in play. 

[clskinsfan]

Damn. I need to watch more tape on Jenkins. I only watched one game. Not enough time to do multiple games with all of these guys. 

NFLN showing pro day tape of Collins right now. He looks so fluid and smooth in his movement. I would love to know his 10 yard split. He looks so sudden to me. 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

 

everyday its someone new

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

Jenkins’ has continued to elevate his draft stock throughout his collegiate career, and his strong pro day showing is the cherry on top.

He measured at 6-foot-6 and 317 pounds at the pro day. His arm length had been a question mark for his ability to play tackle at a high level, but at 33 ½ inches, that shouldn’t be a problem in the NFL.

He ran the 40-yard dash in 5.01 seconds, and benched 225 pounds 36 times. His mix of size, explosiveness and physicality could push him into the first round. 

Cowboys head coach Mike Gundy emphasized Jenkins’ potential as a prospect. 

“I would be shocked if he’s there in the second round now,” Gundy said. “He’s just scratched the surface for what he can do.”

 

https://steelersnow.com/oklahoma-state-ot-teven-jenkins-plays-with-a-mean-streak/

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

On 3/5/2021 at 9:19 PM, Alcoholic Zebra said:

 

If his athletic testing is legit, I'd roll with Teven Jenkins at #19 and try him out at LT first.  I like his moxie more than Darrisaw/Slater.  Nobody moves like Slater, but he's not exactly a bulldog out there.  For the record, I'd also like Slater at #19, but he's not falling that far.

 

About a month ago I said I was comfortable with Teven Jenkins at #19.  The athletic testing came back well.  Darrisaw vs Teven Jenkins is now (imo) all about info we don't have.  How comfortable the team is with medicals and intangibles.

 

-------------------------

 

Tylan Wallace's athletic numbers are as expected.  He's a better Ryan Grant that can high point the ball.  But there's a ceiling there.  Decent WR3 for any team.  We've got McLaurin/Samuel as two legit options.  Tylan Wallace doesn't have the size you want to match the others pure speed, but he should be a solid addition to the WR group this team has.

[JamesMadisonSkins]

In a "perfect world" I think I would find a way to convert our 1/2/3/3/4 into 2/2/2/2/3

 

The Draft Network is pretty fair/realistic with trades, so I did my best to maneuver around and was able to get 43, 48, 51, 60 and 85/104. I mean it literally took 4 trades moving both up and down, but it was fun to do. Got Leatherwood, Mond, Friermuth, Cox, Smith (OG OSU) and Sermon through Round 4.

 

Just couldn't pull the trigger on anyone at 19, and lost my shirt (trade value wise) for a 2+3 before working back around to come up for a couple more 2's

[Skinsinparadise]

The back half of Warren Sharp's mock

 

https://www.sharpfootballanalysis.com/analysis/2021-nfl-mock-draft-4-rm/

 

Pick #15 New England Patriots – Jeremiah Owusu-Koramoah, LB, Notre Dame

Previous pick: Ja’Marr Chase, WR

New England’s free agent spending spree has made them a tough team to predict. With most of their holes more or less filled, there’s a good chance Belichick tries to trade down. Whether it’s here or a few spots later, Owusu-Koramoah’s elite range is likely to entice Belichick. 

Pick #16 Arizona Cardinals – Jaylen Waddle, WR, Alabama

Previous pick: Waddle

According to Sports Info Solutions, 74% of Waddle’s targets were in the slot over the last two years, making him an ideal receiver to pair with DeAndre Hopkins and A.J. Green. 

Pick #17 Las Vegas Raiders – Teven Jenkins, OT, Oklahoma State

Previous pick: Sam Cosmi, OT

Brandon Parker is currently the Raiders’ most experienced right tackle on the roster. However, in Week 17 without Trent Brown in the lineup, the Raiders elected to start Sam Young (currently a free agent) rather than Parker. So it’s unlikely they now view Parker as a viable starter in 2021. 

Pick #18 Miami Dolphins – Azeez Ojulari, EDGE, Georgia

Previous pick: Gregory Rousseau, EDGE

The addition of Will Fuller lessens Miami’s need for a receiver. However, they have yet to add a pass-rusher to replace the production of Shaq Lawson and Kyle Van Noy.

Pick #19 Washington Football Team – Rashod Bateman, WR, Minnesota

Previous pick: Zaven Collins, LB

Curtis Samuel and Adam Humphries are nice additions but they’re likely to operate in the slot and probably won’t stretch the field often. Rashod Bateman would give Washington another deep threat to pair with Terry McLaurin. 

Pick #20 Chicago Bears – Jaycee Horn, CB, South Carolina

Previous pick: Mac Jones, QB

In every version to date, I’ve had the Bears taking Mac Jones. However, the 49ers move up to No. 3 dramatically decreases the odds Jones falls. The Bears will almost certainly need to trade into the top 10 for a quarterback, or settle for another position here. 

Pick #21 Indianapolis Colts – Sam Cosmi, OT, Texas

Previous pick: Liam Eichenberg, OT

Sam Tevi and Julie’n Davenport have been signed to compete for the left tackle job, but it’s tough to imagine the Colts are excited about them attempting to protect Carson Wentz in 2021. 

Pick #22 Tennessee Titans – Greg Newsome II, CB, Nonwestern

Previous pick: Teven Jenkins, OT

Tennessee has been holding virtual meetings with a long list of cornerback prospects, including Greg Newsome. It appears as though they’re hoping to upgrade the position through the draft. 

Pick #23 New York Jets – Micah Parsons, LB, Penn State

Previous pick: Jeremiah Owusu-Koramoah, LB

As long as owner Woody Johnson signs off on Parsons, despite accusations of bullying and sexual harassment, he could excel in Robert Saleh’s defense. 

Pick #24 Pittsburgh Steelers – Landon Dickerson, IOL, Alabama

Previous pick: Eric Stokes, CB

Maurkice Pouncey’s retirement opened up a glaring hole at center. Landon Dickerson is recovering from a torn ACL but is expected to be ready for training camp. 

Pick #25 Jacksonville Jaguars – Trevon Moehrig, S, TCU

Previous pick: Christian Barmore, DT

Trevon Moehrig is a traditional free safety with elite range in the deep secondary. He would likely offer Jacksonville a significant upgrade over Andrew Wingard or Jarrod Wilson, who appear to be their best options for that role on the current roster. 

Pick #26 Cleveland Browns – Caleb Farley, CB, Virginia Tech

Previous pick: Rashod Bateman, WR

Greedy Williams, who missed the entire 2020 season due to a shoulder injury, is expected to start opposite Denzel Ward. However, with so few other holes to fill, Cleveland could gamble on Caleb Farley, who is likely to fall due to his recent back surgery. 

Pick #27 Baltimore Ravens – Jayson Oweh, EDGE, Penn State

Previous pick: Azeez Ojulari, EDGE

Baltimore allowed Yannick Ngakoue and Matt Judon to walk and have yet to sign anyone to fill their shoes. With most impact free agents now gone, it’s become clear they’ll add a pass-rusher early in the draft.  

Pick #28 New Orleans Saints – Terrace Marshall Jr., WR, LSU

Previous pick: Micah Parsons, LB

Drew Brees kept the offense humming despite a decline in talent at the receiver position in recent years, but they probably can’t expect Taysom Hill and/or Jameis Winston to get the job done without infusing some young talent into the mix. 

Pick #29 Green Bay Packers – Elijah Moore, WR, Ole Miss

Previous pick: Greg Newsome, CB

Aaron Rodgers averaged 9.2 yards per attempt when targeting Davante Adams and 7.8 when targeting anyone else. Elijah Moore would add another big-play threat to the offense. 

Pick #30 Buffalo Bills – Alijah Vera-Tucker, OL, USC

Previous pick: Caleb Farley, CB

GM Brandon Beane has discussed a desire to improve the run game, and hinted that the path to achieve that goal was improving the blocking. Alijah Vera-Tucker played both guard and tackle at USC but would likely shift inside if he landed in Buffalo. 

Pick #31 Kansas City Chiefs – Levi Onwuzurike, DL, Washington

Previous pick: Creed Humphrey, OL

The Chiefs have already signed four players on the offensive line, so maybe the plan is to address that area in free agency use the draft to plug other holes. Tanoh Kpassagnon’s starting spot on the defensive line is still vacant and could be filled by the versatile Levi Onwuzurike. 

Pick #32 Tampa Bay Buccaneers – Christian Barmore, DT, Alabama

Previous pick: Najee Harris, RB

After re-signing virtually all of their free agents, Tampa doesn’t have a glaring hole to fill and can take a best-available-player approach. Christian Barmore would be a natural long-term replacement for Ndamukong Suh, who was only re-signed to a one-year contract.

[illone]

Thats an interesting mock draft. 
 

bateman over parsons, horn, and farley?

 

thats gotta be april fools gold. 

[Skinsinparadise]

36 minutes ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

 

About a month ago I said I was comfortable with Teven Jenkins at #19.  The athletic testing came back well.  Darrisaw vs Teven Jenkins is now (imo) all about info we don't have.  How comfortable the team is with medicals and intangibles.

 

-------------------------

 

Tylan Wallace's athletic numbers are as expected.  He's a better Ryan Grant that can high point the ball.  But there's a ceiling there.  Decent WR3 for any team.  We've got McLaurin/Samuel as two legit options.  Tylan Wallace doesn't have the size you want to match the others pure speed, but he should be a solid addition to the WR group this team has.

 

As for Tylan Wallace, a better Ryan Grant?  That comes off hedging.   Do you mean he's Ryan Grant or maybe a hair better at best?  If I recall you compared him to Grant before?  By Grant I presume you mean he's just a guy who will be at best a 4th-5th type of WR.

 

Wallace's pro day was mixed but not awful. His speed numbers were good including a great 10 time. But had poor explosion numbers.  RAS numbers are funky because they really factor size big time.  So to them 5"11 and just under 200 pounds is a big negative.  Tremble had good metrics across the board but was downgraded signficantly by their metrics because they apparently hate that he's 240 and change pounds.

 

If Grant is the comparison they would have to have similar strengths as well.  I don't recall Grant's college career involved him being a monster contested catch guy with hands of glue.  But I didn't really track Grant's career in college.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Jenkins intangibles seem to check out well.  

 

https://www.si.com/college/oklahomastate/football/teven-jenkins-of-oklahoma-state-on-who-has-helped-him-and-how-he-feels

 

STILLWATER -- This is the second story of the week here on Pokes Report where offensive tackle Teven Jenkins is being featured prominently. He deserves it. NFL scouts would tell you he deserved it that is if they could come out on the road and do their jobs. Pro Football Focus, the analytics group that watches almost all football, mentions Jenkins nearly every week. Head coach Mike Gundy had his longest quotes of the season during his Zoom call with the media on Monday and the topic was Teven Jenkins. 

"'You know Teven, can you name the one person in this weight room that's worth $40 million?' He looks at me like I'm trying to give him a haircut or something," Gundy said on Monday recounting a conversation from this summer. Heck, maybe it was last summer. "And he says,' No.' And I said, 'You, if you decide to work really hard. If you decide to just say you know what, I'm gonna do it. You're that guy.' That's the kind of talent that he has. If he just gets his mind focused on that's what I want to do. That's the level the level that he can get to."

Gundy said watching Jenkins in the weight room is a show and Jenkins doesn't even know he is the star of that show.

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"He's uncharacteristically strong. I watched him in a weight room this summer, I think he hit 225 like 35 times and they weren't even counting. I mean he was just doing it," Gundy said. "He has tremendous feet. He's got good leverage, he's highly intelligent and his work ethic is getting better this year."

 

 

[Warhead36]

That mock is terrible there is no way we pass on Parsons for a 4th WR.

[RWJ]

4 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

He'd be my pick if he falls to 19 and its slam dunk for me.   LT is such a premium spot. 

 

But even though he falls to 19 often in mocks, I think 50-50 at best he's still there.  I think my next two targets after would be:  Jenkins or Cosmi.  I think you might be able to trade down (if you can find a trader partner) and get either one.  Otherwise I am a big fan of J. Davis, Collins, Koramoah.  Collins has his pro day today I am fascinated to see his pro day numbers.  

 

I was just listening to Cosell rave about J. Davis (not that I always agree with him) and that's his fav LB in this class. 

 

On another note, Sheehan apparently doubling down on his man crush on Kyle Trask.  He likes Trask over Jones.  I find that ironic considering he also touts to death the Shanahans being offensive gurus and he thinks Jones is their target at #3.  He thinks Trask is too good to fall to pick #51, and teams will have to trade up to get him.

 

Sheehan had a SEC reporter on his show who watched many of these guys in person, he loves J. Davis, loves Elijah Moore and thinks he's up there with Waddle.  Said that he knows Elijah's intangibles are through the roof, really hard worker, etc.

 

I heard on Standig's podcast him double down that he heard they like Davis Mills.

Interesting times ahead, SIP.  Answers will come due. 

[Skinsinparadise]

I like most of this draft, aside from Franks, and them skipping TE

 

 

8 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

That mock is terrible there is no way we pass on Parsons for a 4th WR.

 

We don't know if Parson's is even on their board.  I was listening to a draft podcast recently and one of the guests said they talked to some at Penn State and was told that Parson's immaturity might be behind him but they would have some concerns about his committment to the sport in the pros after gets a nice payday.

 

I haven't really dived into the stories about Parsons but considering some of the misses on guys like Guice, Cravens, etc I wonder if they'd pause on Parsons.  Heck even with Haskins who according to most is a good dude but there were some work ethic red flags about him before the draft.  I wonder if there is any hesitation for this FO to take someone with personality red flags. 

[clskinsfan]

Yes. SIP. Give me one of the tackles in the first and Cox in the second and I am happy. 

 

Just watched another game of Jenkins vs. Texas. Jenkins manhandled Ossai for most of the game. Although Ossai did end up with 3 sacks and a game ender against Jenkins as well. I am intrigued by Jenkins nastiness. He will straight up plow you into the ground.