2021 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[DWinzit]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Watched Petr Werner.  I'd be cool with him in the third, he's  IMO a polished linebacker.  

If Werner is gone by our pick in the 3rd, who is next up? I think you miss on him, there is a drop off

[DWinzit]

14 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I think I found a late TE diamond in the rough player I like.   Briley Moore, Kansas State.  

 

I can only find different highlight films for him, based on that small sample, the dude can seperate, break tackles, catch the ball.   Looks like he plays with fire.   I looked up his stats with PFF.  He has one of the highest run blocking scores among their TE grades, one of the lowest drop %, and one of the highest receiving grades.  They project him in the 5th round.   Downside I can see is that unlike some of the TEs I have watched he doesn't have the long legs/long arms working for him.  He's a bit squatty looking on both fronts. 

 

You add big time athleticism and I am intrigued. 

 

 

 

Thanks, I look forward to checking him out! 

I know you like Yeboah, whats your thoughts on my guy McKitty?

[clskinsfan]

Been watching some more film of Mond since there has been some chatter about us liking him. His TE Jalen Wydermyer is something special. Too bad he couldnt come out this year. He will be highly coveted in next years draft though. And I still am not extremely impressed with Mond. He makes some wow throws followed by complete misreads. 

[RWJ]

1 hour ago, clskinsfan said:

Been watching some more film of Mond since there has been some chatter about us liking him. His TE Jalen Wydermyer is something special. Too bad he couldnt come out this year. He will be highly coveted in next years draft though. And I still am not extremely impressed with Mond. He makes some wow throws followed by complete misreads. 

Really believe that instead of Mond, whom I like Trask might be the target in the 2nd having ties with Zampese.  A guess, clsk.

[skinny21]

1 hour ago, RWJ said:

Really believe that instead of Mond, whom I like Trask might be the target in the 2nd having ties with Zampese.  A guess, clsk.

I don’t mind Trask as much as some on here (my viewing sample size is quite small though - barely watched any game tape this year).  But I’m not sure he really fits RR and Turner IMO as mobility seems a pretty important to them, considering Cam, Allen, Heinicke (and I think Montez, but not sure).  Valid point about Zampese, but even if he really likes Trask, RR and Turner have to be convinced that he’s a scheme/philosophical fit and worth taking over the other available prospects.  His growth from 2019 to 2020 has to be an enticing point in his favor...

I would not be happy if we drafted Trask in the 2nd.

[Est.1974]

I think we simply have to take a DB before have we exited day 2. So many exciting prospects.

[Burgundy Yoda]

Kind of weird seeing a GM running drills, but Zaven is a very large person. Dude is certainly a physical specimen. 

 

 

[DWinzit]

7 hours ago, clskinsfan said:

Been watching some more film of Mond since there has been some chatter about us liking him. His TE Jalen Wydermyer is something special. Too bad he couldnt come out this year. He will be highly coveted in next years draft though. And I still am not extremely impressed with Mond. He makes some wow throws followed by complete misreads. 

Your summary of Mond is what mine has been after watching all or parts of 4 games this year. The inconsistency is maddening, that's why I am not a fan of taking him before the 3rd.

 

I believe Wydermyer is projected as a 2nd to 3rd rounder. He lines up all over the place and is 6'5" 260 I believe. Looks really good.

[Anselmheifer]

I don't think Jaycee Horn is talked about enough here. I have him over Surtain and he didn't disappoint at his Pro day. He ran a 4.39 40 with a 41 inch vert and 11"1" broad jump. I think he's going top 15. I'd rather have a top OT, but if Horn falls to us, he would be mighty tempting. 

 

 

How are you guys feeling about Teven Jenkens at 19, if Darrisaw is gone? I'm not sure about putting him at LT, but you could put him at RT and move Moses over. Moses did well at LT last season. 

[DWinzit]

@Skinsinparadise, I was able to watch Briley Moore's films and looks quiet impressive for a late rounder. I like that he wants to run over defenders, blocks and he has good hands and movement. I watched a long interview with him which led me to health concerns moving forward. He had knee surgery, had a pretty major shoulder injury and experienced partial paralysis after a special teams hit. He sounds tough, even if he wears a man bun (j/k)

[Skinsinparadise]

10 hours ago, RWJ said:

 

RR is honest and sways both ways when asked about if we draft a QB or build around what we have.  To me, Fitz is our starter and the mentor the THE guy we draft at QB THIS year.  Yes, this year.  Whoever it be and whatever round.  I believe they have their eye on someone they can mold and Fitz is starter and mentor both this year and IMO more than likely next year.

 

Riivera basically said they'd like a QB ASAP but if they don't get one and build a team and then get the QB, that's fine too.

 

Keim basically is saying they have an eye on someone but he gives the vibe that they like and don't love whomever that Qb is because they have assigned a certain value on that QB and if he's not there at their pick so be it.  I presume third round.  Seems like Keim/Finlay think its Trask.  Standig thinks its Mills.  But whomever that is they make it clear they won't move mountains to get that dude so I gather they see that dude as a flier.  

51 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

@Skinsinparadise, I was able to watch Briley Moore's films and looks quiet impressive for a late rounder. I like that he wants to run over defenders, blocks and he has good hands and movement. I watched a long interview with him which led me to health concerns moving forward. He had knee surgery, had a pretty major shoulder injury and experienced partial paralysis after a special teams hit. He sounds tough, even if he wears a man bun (j/k)

 

He seems top have potential to be well rounded TE.  He seems to seperate/catch well.  I couldn't find footage of him blocking but PFF grades him really high on that front.  And he's an above athelte too judging by his pro day. 

[HigSkin]

8 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Riivera basically said they'd like a QB ASAP but if they don't get one and build a team and then get the QB, that's fine too.

 

Keim basically is saying they have an eye on someone but he gives the vibe that they like and don't love whomever that Qb is because they have assigned a certain value on that QB and if he's not there at their pick so be it.  I presume third round.  Seems like Keim/Finlay think its Trask.  Standig thinks its Mills.  But whomever that is they make it clear they won't move mountains to get that dude so I gather they see that dude as a flier.  

 

 

Not saying Riddick is the end all be all of QB evaluators because he's not but.....LOL

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

9 hours ago, DWinzit said:

Thanks, I look forward to checking him out! 

I know you like Yeboah, whats your thoughts on my guy McKitty?

 

I couldn't find any McKitty games to judge aside from the Senior Bowl.  As for the Senior Bowl, it looked like he could seperate and can run if you give him some daylight.  Couldn't see enough to judge his blocking. 

 

Here's PFF's take on him.  He looked more athletic to me than their take on him.   I far from always agree with PFF -- for example, they don't care much for Yebolah but I think he has some potential in that third tier of TEs  after Freiermuth, Jordan, Tremble. 

 

 

[DWinzit]

Wow, PFF is harsh on McKitty.  It is true he doesn't have top end speed. I don't think he makes it out of the 4th and could easily see him go in the 3rd based on what I have seen and the way athletic TE's have been drafting a round earlier than expected. (although with NE out of the running maybe that doesn't happen this year.

[Skinsinparadise]

11 minutes ago, HigSkin said:

 

Not saying Riddick is the end all be all of QB evaluators because he's not but.....LOL

 

 

Riddick also selling Darnold among others.  Having said that not sure there is such a thing as the end all of be all of QB evaluators.  If there were, they'd make a fortune.  Chris Simms although is quirky in some of his takes on qBs over the years but I'll give him that he's been vindicated on a bunch of them.

 

For Simms, Davis was his next favorite after the first tier.  He didn't think much of Trask.  I get the Davis over Trask drill.  Davis IMO has more tools.  Personally I am not in love with any of the next tier QBs and would skip them all.  But if they roll the dice on one (if its the third or later) I'd be cool with whomever it is. 

3 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

Wow, PFF is harsh on McKitty.  It is true he doesn't have top end speed. I don't think he makes it out of the 4th and could easily see him go in the 3rd based on what I have seen and the way athletic TE's have been drafting a round earlier than expected. (although with NE out of the running maybe that doesn't happen this year.

 

They are even tougher on Yebolah.  Not that I am that into Yebolah but in the mid rounds as a flier what the heck?

 

I am surprised PFF likes Tremble who is defintiely one of my guys.  I figured PFF would slam him as they often do with players who haven't shown production yet.  But they like him.  

 

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

10 hours ago, DWinzit said:

If Werner is gone by our pick in the 3rd, who is next up? I think you miss on him, there is a drop off

 

I'll have a better answer as to my take on that next week.  I am starting to go through more LBs and safeties.  I am behind where i was at this point last year because I've spent so much time watching and rewatching QBs.  I am far from a QB guru to say the least.  But I'll just say I've never watched so many QBs before a draft.    So I know enough to at least have an opinion on most of them.

 

I am getting there at LT, WR, TE.  But got a long way to go on safety/CB/LB.

 

Off the top of my head right now, maybe Dylan Moses, Cameron McGrone?  Browning?  But I have to dig into them.  

 

 

[Warhead36]

2 hours ago, Anselmheifer said:

I don't think Jaycee Horn is talked about enough here. I have him over Surtain and he didn't disappoint at his Pro day. He ran a 4.39 40 with a 41 inch vert and 11"1" broad jump. I think he's going top 15. I'd rather have a top OT, but if Horn falls to us, he would be mighty tempting. 

 

 

If Horn falls to 19 we should run to the podium. Imagine having potentially three lockdown CBs behind our pass rush. A nightmare for opposing QBs.

[RWJ]

1 hour ago, HigSkin said:

 

Not saying Riddick is the end all be all of QB evaluators because he's not but.....LOL

 

 

Someone posted on ES that MIlls blew up his Pro Day and it was outstanding.  I am going to look for film to see if I can find it.  

[Skinsinparadise]

Ledyard who is probably my favorite draft anaylist with a detailed take on Zaven.  I agree with most of it, some i don't.  i thought about Zaven some more.  I wouldn't hate it if they took him at 19 but he wouldn't be my top pick. 

 

 

 

Is Collins A Bucs Fit In Round 1?

I think Zaven Collins will be a good pro, probably in the mold of a player like Anthony Barr for Minnesota. Big and athletic in a way that makes it seem like they should be dominant, but not quite instinctive or physical enough to be that caliber of a player. Fans will talk about their versatility forever, but neither are able to play multiple positions despite common misconceptions about them. Still, Barr has been a good starter for a long time in the NFL, and Collins has that kind of natural ability too. He may always frustrate fans to a degree, and consistency could be elusive, but linebackers with 3-down ability like Collins tend to hang on to starting spots for a long time.

At the same time, I’m not sure Tampa Bay will be a fit for Collins. Bruce Arians’ recent comments about how much the Bucs value physicality and speed when scouting defensive prospects are ringing in my ears, and I just don’t see those things in droves with Collins. I’ve already detailed how physicality is an issue on the Tulsa linebacker’s tape, but even his speed and explosiveness are just solid for the position, even if they are great for his size. At some point the added weight does nothing for you, and you just want 4.5 speed at linebacker, even if it comes in a 235-pound package, rather than nearly 4.7 speed at 260.

[RWJ]

Just watched this video on Mills.  I think he sees the field well, doesn't stare down WRs, make throws look easy flicks the ball with ease and ball placement looks good.  Might I stress this video.  He can run too.  Mind you he's had two knee surgeries so his medicals coming up soon for all teams will need to check out but if we spend our 1st 3rd on him I think he could be the steal of the draft, if he falls that far.  He is climbing draft boards.  Dan Jeremiah raved and said he "crushed his Pro Day" in the rain.  

 

Davis Mills 2020 Highlights (Stanford QB #15) - YouTube

 

Really liking what I am seeing from Mills.  

4 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Ledyard who is probably my favorite draft anaylist with a detailed take on Zaven.  I agree with most of it, some i don't.  i thought about Zaven some more.  I wouldn't hate it if they took him at 19 but he wouldn't be my top pick. 

 

 

 

Is Collins A Bucs Fit In Round 1?

I think Zaven Collins will be a good pro, probably in the mold of a player like Anthony Barr for Minnesota. Big and athletic in a way that makes it seem like they should be dominant, but not quite instinctive or physical enough to be that caliber of a player. Fans will talk about their versatility forever, but neither are able to play multiple positions despite common misconceptions about them. Still, Barr has been a good starter for a long time in the NFL, and Collins has that kind of natural ability too. He may always frustrate fans to a degree, and consistency could be elusive, but linebackers with 3-down ability like Collins tend to hang on to starting spots for a long time.

At the same time, I’m not sure Tampa Bay will be a fit for Collins. Bruce Arians’ recent comments about how much the Bucs value physicality and speed when scouting defensive prospects are ringing in my ears, and I just don’t see those things in droves with Collins. I’ve already detailed how physicality is an issue on the Tulsa linebacker’s tape, but even his speed and explosiveness are just solid for the position, even if they are great for his size. At some point the added weight does nothing for you, and you just want 4.5 speed at linebacker, even if it comes in a 235-pound package, rather than nearly 4.7 speed at 260.

At this time and still a month away roughly, who would you select at #19 with them realistically being there?

[Skinsinparadise]

15 minutes ago, RWJ said:

Someone posted on ES that MIlls blew up his Pro Day and it was outstanding.  I am going to look for film to see if I can find it.  

 

He was good as pretty much everyone is on their Pro Days what made his unique was it was raining

 

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

11 minutes ago, RWJ said:

Just watched this video on Mills.  I think he sees the field well, doesn't stare down WRs, make throws look easy flicks the ball with ease and ball placement looks good.  Might I stress this video.  He can run too.  Mind you he's had two knee surgeries so his medicals coming up soon for all teams will need to check out but if we spend our 1st 3rd on him I think he could be the steal of the draft, if he falls that far.  He is climbing draft boards.  Dan Jeremiah raved and said he "crushed his Pro Day" in the rain.  

 

Davis Mills 2020 Highlights (Stanford QB #15) - YouTube

 

Really liking what I am seeing from Mills.  

At this time and still a month away roughly, who would you select at #19 with them realistically being there?

 

lol, seems like you want to fall hard for one of the second day QBs, if so, don't let me or anyone else spoil it for you.  For me none of them i love.  But I've seen enough of Mills and Trask that i know i like Mills over him because of superior traits.    QBs are really hard to guess.  So no one really has a definitive opinion on any of them. 

 

I've seen the 4.6 for Mills and also the 4.82.  Big difference as to speed.  He doesn't look to me 4.6 fast when i watch him but looks faster than 4.82 -- maybe split the difference?  4.7.

 

As for who I want at 19.  Darrisaw.  My 2nd choice is Tevin Jenkins. 

[mhd24]

9 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

lol, seems like you want to fall hard for one of the second day QBs, if so, don't let me or anyone else spoil it for you.  For me none of them i love.  But I've seen enough of Mills and Trask that i know i like Mills over him because of superior traits.    QBs are really hard to guess.  So no one really has a definitive opinion on any of them. 

 

I've seen the 4.6 for Mills and also the 4.82.  Big difference as to speed.  He doesn't look to me 4.6 fast when i watch him but looks faster than 4.82 -- maybe split the difference?  4.7.

 

As for who I want at 19.  Darrisaw.  My 2nd choice is Tevin Jenkins. 

 

 

My rankings (realistically who would be at 19):

1). Da'Vonta Smith (I think there is a chance one of Smith/Waddle falls)

2). Jaylon Waddle (ditto)

3). Najee (I know we probably won't take a RB but we all know he's elite)

4). Darrisow

5). Jammin Davis

6). AVT (even if he's a guard (Kim says strong possibility Scherff won't sign a longterm deal this off-season))

7). Jenkins

8). JOK

 

 

 

 

[JamesMadisonSkins]

14 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

As for who I want at 19.  Darrisaw.  My 2nd choice is Tevin Jenkins. 

 

I think I have been talked in to Jenkins being a good pick at #19. I would prefer Darrisaw, and if Sewell falls at all I would consider trading up for him as being an elite allpro caliber talent at LT.

 

I have also talked myself into a mid-round IOL as well to potentially replace Scherff. OT in R1 and IOL in R3 would really make this OL deep and the future bright even without SCherff.

[Est.1974]

Important decisions for me are 1- do they bring Kerrigan back and 2 - is Boston a viable option at FS

 

We have to get a LB and TE, the roster is seriously lacking at those spots.

 

However, we could actually draft high at the premier positions, LT, CB and Edge. Think of the long term benefits to doing that......