2021 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[Going Commando]

QB is the only position worth trading up for since we have two edge rushers. I would be more inclined to trade back than up, there is a massive amount of day 2 quality this year.

 

Some thoughts: there will be at least a couple of leftover tier 1 or tier 2 players at 19.  As SIP posted, Smitty has a chance to drop because of his size.  Small WRs drop on draft day, it's one of the most consistent trends in drafting over the years.  WRs in general drop on draft day, it is rare for them to go top ten, no matter how productive they were.  Chase is going to have to run 4.4s to go top ten (which I think he can).  Waddle is going to be there at 19 IMO.

 

RBs like Najee (Bell and Henry) have gone in the second round in recent drafts, and RBs in general tend to fall.  Najee is going to be there at 19 IMO.  I think Etienne falls to the second like Nick Chubb and Jonathan Taylor did too, which makes moving back to give us ammo to maneuver between day one and day two appealing for us.

 

LBers also tend to fall too.  I think there is absolutely no way Owusu-Koromoah goes before 19, and in fact I think he might fall to the second because of his size.  If Collins doesn't run fast, then he could drop too.  Parsons could certainly end up in the teens too, particularly if he doesn't run that well.

 

The guard only and center only prospects almost always fall.  That's quite a few good players this year.

 

The combine is going to change the way the DL class is getting viewed too.  Paye and Oweh and Basham are going to blow people away in the testing.  Jaelen Phillips was the top ranked recruit in that ridiculous 2017 HS class that also included Najee and Chase Young and Okudah and Jerry Jeudy and Higgins and Jedrick Wills, etc.  He could shoot up boards with a crazy good combine.  Hamilcar Rashed and Ossai and Ojulari all look explosive and have top 40 potential.  Barmore got 8 sacks and is built almost as big and burly as Chris Jones, he's going to 15 probably.  Tufele and Marvin Wilson could also test really well and go earlier than expected.  Tyler Shelvin isna genuine freak of nature.  And people might eventually figure out how good Jaylen Twyman is and start making the Aaron Donald connection with him.  Same could be true for Patrick Jones or Rashad Weaver.  This DL class is far better than draftniks are currently giving it credit for.  As it stands now, some of these guys are going to be BPA for us in the second and third rounds.  We might not get a better chance to add such quality into our pipeline and replace Allen/Io/Payne/Settle or Anderson/Kerrigan for cheap than this bizarrely undervalued DL class.  So I absolutely don't want to trade up and lose our day two picks, especially for a non-QB.  I want to add day two picks, if anything.

[KDawg]

I’m more inclined to trade back than up as well.

 

Basham is a stud. I think he’s special. 
 

I think a BPA approach is important. We’re going to lose Kerrigan. 
 

Adding DL should not be off limits. But we should definitely hedge our bets and not overshoot on a DL with other prospects available.

 

I don’t think Najee is there at 19. At worst I think Miami takes him at 18. People keep saying they have Gaskins... but they’ll have him with Harris. Add Chase or Smith and they’re going to be a real problem. 
 

I’m definitely in the BPA camp though. Our RB room could benefit from a Chris Carson type, but that pretty much takes Najee off the table. And that makes me sad. But reality is we need to be able to at least be comfortable in as many spots as possible heading into the draft.

 

That’s why I’m so against blowing our cap space on one or two guys and want value. I don’t think we’re in a position to spend big on one guy yet. We need to be methodical and smart with our cap space to fill the cracks and allow us to truly go BPA.

 

Right now there’s no chance I draft a Quincy Roche, Basham, Barmore, Phillips, Paye, (I haven’t delved too deep into DL yet but any good prospect) given our holes. Even using weighted BPA those guys would be so far down the list.

 

Shore up the roster by adding a LB, WR, RB, OT (this is going to be tough as the options stink), FS, etc., is a smart move that allows us to be a lot more flexible and our need weights drop dramatically in the BPA formula.

 

That means we can almost truly go BPA. 
 

I’d love to see us be able to just go for the best player.

 

I don’t think Smith is going to fall as far as you guys do, either. But I think his rise means a guy like Waddle may drop. 

[Going Commando]

19 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Lance last I looked had two games on youtube. I watched them both and also the highlights.  He's raw for reasons I explained in detail in the past but his athleticism is really appealing to me.  I wouldn't trade the farm for him though.   I share your liking of Zach Wilson.  And I gather I like Justin Fields more than you do though you seem to be warming up to him some.  😀

 

I agree with you that Mac isn't in that conversation with the top guys.  To me Mac is a roll of the dice.  He could work out, he could end up "meh", or a bust.  I wouldn't bet my mortgage on him.   But if I am rolling the dice, I'd take him over Trask.   And while draft geeks opinions are meaningless in the scheme of things -- just about all of them agree with me on this point so I am not on an island on it. 

 

I wouldn't draft either Jones or Trask before day three.  Fourth to sixth round feels right for both of them.  I think they're being overrated because they played well for blue bloods in a season where this fanbase and thread in particular are QB thirsty.  But the reason I like Trask over Jones basically boils down to the fact that Trask at least produced a highlight reel of impressive throws, whereas Jones made like five the entire season.

 

I think I've been labelled as anti-Fields even though I'm not.  I'm just not as high on him as the consensus, but believe he's a solid first rounder.  I've been consistent with my take on him.  I think the poor man's Lamar Jackson/DeShaun Watson comparison is fair, but that's rubbed people the wrong way even though he is, objectively, a much less accomplished college QB than they were.  And they are two of maybe the six or seven best QBs in the NFL--on their rookie contracts--and being a lesser version of them would still be a wildly optimistic and successful outcome for Fields.

 

I think draftniks got a little swept up on Fields and assumed that there was growth in his game this season that didn't actually materialize.  Growth as a field reader and in his instincts as a passer and growth in his pocket skills.  And I think his physical attributes and arm talent have been vastly oversold.  He's a not a big, physical QB like Trey Lance and Trevor Lawrence, nor does he have the kind of gun that they and Zach Wilson all have.  Of those top four QBs, he's got the least amount of arm talent and that's something that's really palpable to me when I watch each of them in juxtaposition.  I think he's probably going to measure very close to Lamar Jackson in stature and build.  In terms of his throwing style, he's a natural touch thrower who has to get set up and really drive on the ball to push it with velocity.  It's not a damning knock, because Daniel Jones had a similar throwing style and he went sixth overall, and has been surprisingly good in the NFL.  And at the end of the day, he's got high level accuracy on throws inside and outside of the numbers, which is far preferable to raw power without control.  It's just a little bit disappointing limitation to have in terms of his overall upside when you're talking about a top ten or even top five pick QB.  Guys like Josh Allen have shown that you can gain control and harness that raw power over time, whereas I'm not sure how much you can improve your arm strength.

 

I think I'm being more realistic about Fields than the consensus, but that doesn't mean I don't like him.  There are several things I love about his game that are areas where I think he is better and cleaner than the other top three QB prospects.  First off I love his touch.  He throws the best deep ball of the bunch, and a very catchable ball into middle zones and he really excels on throws outside of the numbers.  He throws with elite accuracy on the run.  Pocket footwork is outstanding and probably the best in the class, his drops look excellent and NFL caliber, and his playaction game will translate immediately.  The zone read and RPO game will too.  He's special on zone reads because he can rip those for 30+ yard gains and home runs in a way that only Lance matches.  They are TD scorers in and-goal situations.  He's an extra blocker in a zone-heavy run game, and he's also a special scrambler.  As a whole, I think he's got the best feet in the class and probably second best running ability, and I think that makes him a particularly good fit for us.  I also think he'd gel really well with the type of run game we're trying to establish.  He's just very Lamar Jackson-like.

 

I think one of Fields, Wilson, or Lance will fall far enough to be in trade-up range for us, I'm just not sure which one it will be.  I prefer Wilson over Fields, but Fields is probably an even better fit for our offense and I'm hoping that it's either Wilson or Fields.

 

Lance is tough for me.  In terms of the raw talent, he's my favorite of the bunch behind Lawrence.  He's like what Lamar Jackson would look like if he had Andrew Luck's size and strength.  A true physical unicorn at the position whose scrambling and designed run ability is totally unique.  He will run through you and he cuts with the explosiveness and instincts of an elite RB.  One of the rare types that could make a college-style QB running offense work at the NFL level.  I just don't like him as a fit for our organization in particular.  I don't have any faith in the team's ability to support and develop him, especially if he has to play next season.  He needs a team with an offensive coaching staff that's actually good--one that is patient and secure and talented enough to commit to running a very limited playbook for a couple of seasons until Lance can make the huge and necessary strides as a traditional passer.  Someone like San Francisco makes far more sense for him.  Lynch and Shanahan have the long term job security to spend three years running a training wheels offense, but the team is still good enough to win a bunch of games in the mean time and have everyone keep their jobs, even if they don't have an honest shot at competing for a SB with such a limited scheme.  The other fit that immediately comes to mind is Indy with Frank Reich, who had great success working with and developing Wentz plus that OL and defense are pretty awesome.  Going to this team is a death sentence for that kid's career.

[Warhead36]

I disagree about our offensive coaching staff. We had a career journeyman/practice squad guy go toe to toe with the GOAT this past weekend in a playoff game. Kyle Allen looked decent in the system too and even Alex Smith had his moments before he broke down. The only proof they can't develop QBs is the Haskins failure and I think its obvious that was more of a Haskins problem.

[Skinsinparadise]

2 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

QB is the only position worth trading up for since we have two edge rushers. I would be more inclined to trade back than up, there is a massive amount of day 2 quality this year.

 

 

For me it depends on who falls and the price.  If its one of our third rounders or cheaper, I'd consider it for Pitts and maybe Devonta Smith.  I get the draft is deep at WR but the dude IMO is special.  I do think our offense can benefit greatly from adding a stud much more so than depth.  

 

2 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

 Waddle is going to be there at 19 IMO.

 

 

Waddle at 19 would be very tempting for me.  I agree its possible.  I do have an Alabama bias, as I've mentioned on this thread before one of my kids likes them and I go almost every time they play in Florida which tends to be 1-2 times a year.

2 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

RBs like Najee (Bell and Henry) have gone in the second round in recent drafts, and RBs in general tend to fall.  Najee is going to be there at 19 IMO.  I think Etienne falls to the second like Nick Chubb and Jonathan Taylor did too, which makes moving back to give us ammo to maneuver between day one and day two appealing for us.

 

 

I agree that Najee will likely be there at 19.  i do have an Alabama bias yet for some reason I didn't jump hard on his bandwagon the previous season, I think in part because I am so used to Alabama RBs having hype and some ending up deserved and some not.  I was fixated on the receivers instead.  I recall you hyping him all the time last year.  But yeah I am a big time convert now.

 

2 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

The combine is going to change the way the DL class is getting viewed too.  Paye and Oweh and Basham are going to blow people away in the testing.  Jaelen Phillips was the top ranked recruit in that ridiculous 2017 HS class that also included Najee and Chase Young and Okudah and Jerry Jeudy and Higgins and Jedrick Wills, etc.  He could shoot up boards with a crazy good combine.  Hamilcar Rashed and Ossai and Ojulari all look explosive and have top 40 potential.  Barmore got 8 sacks and is built almost as big and burly as Chris Jones, he's going to 15 probably.  

 

Agree.   I think an invasion of D lineman in particular could help other prospects that we like fall.

 

2 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

We might not get a better chance to add such quality into our pipeline and replace Allen/Io/Payne/Settle or Anderson/Kerrigan for cheap than this bizarrely undervalued DL class.  So I absolutely don't want to trade up and lose our day two picks, especially for a non-QB.  I want to add day two picks, if anything.

 

Normally its my take too.  But when you boil down some of our trade downs, the other teams benefited from it much more so than we did.   Thinking about some of our trade downs which felt great at the time helped the trade partners get:  JJ Watt, Demarucs Lawrence, Tyler Lockett.   It all felt like a steal on our end at the time but the team that traded up easily won those trades with the exception of Watt's injury history.

 

Don't get me wrong, losing those trade downs hasn't soured me on trading down.  It's especially fun for people on this thread like me to enjoy a trade down because we will know so many prospects by the time the draft comes.  But I don't think trading down is a no brainer.  And you can win a trade up scenario.  Other teams have won some of those deals versus us, ironically.  So yeah for me Kyle Pitts and Devonta Smith would be on the table if we can land either cheaply.  I doubt we will have that chance to trade up cheaply but if the opportunity arises I do think we can benefit from a potential elite player like Pitts. 

 

 

[Going Commando]

8 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

I disagree about our offensive coaching staff. We had a career journeyman/practice squad guy go toe to toe with the GOAT this past weekend in a playoff game. Kyle Allen looked decent in the system too and even Alex Smith had his moments before he broke down. The only proof they can't develop QBs is the Haskins failure and I think its obvious that was more of a Haskins problem.

 

Haskins only started six of the games.  We had one of the worst offenses in the NFL this season.  The coaching staff abandoned the development of a raw QB prospect after four games in favor of career journeymen in an attempt to expand the playbook.  We scrapped to a 7-9 record because we had the #2 defense in the league this year and the division was terrible.  The offense was a complete mess.  Not just the quarterbacks, the offense as a whole.  Atrocious spacing in the passing game.  Inability to get blitzes blocked the entire year.  Stagnant running game that was one of the least productive in the league despite the fact we had a top notch defense keeping games close and the run game was supposed to be the coaching staff's forte.  The bad coaching goes beyond the objectively terrible performance of the offense.  Using every half of football as a referendum on the future of your QBs is bad coaching.  Telling the QB you are trying to develop that if he has another multiple turnover game then he'll lose his job is bad coaching.  Demoting that QB to third string the next week after a loss and thus scapegoating him for it is bad coaching.  That is demonstrated incompetence in the handling and developing of a young QB prospect that this coaching staff is guilty of.  Not Bruce Allen, not Dan Snyder, not Dwayne Haskins.  And those are basic failures.

[skinny21]

@stevemcqueen1Only question I have about drafting a DT is whether we can keep them on the roster - obviously we could lose someone to injury in camp, but otherwise, can we carry 5 DTs?  
Love the idea of getting someone into the pipeline sooner rather than later though.  We have 2 years left on Settle and Io’s contracts and I’d prefer to not wait until that point to fill the role.  I could see a semi-hybrid as well - similar to how we’re using Smith-Williams - because we also need a replacement for Kerrigan (at least we have in-house options here with JSW and Brailford).  

[Riggo#44]

@stevemcqueen1, I enjoy your analysis on everything but QB. This staff has had nothing to work with, and got better as the season went on using 4 different QBs, a RB that had 33 carries in college (without an injury has 1000 yrds rushing), a TE that had a total of 45 targets in his career, a pieces-and-parts-OL  that vastly improved as the season wore on, and a bunch of nothing outside of McLaurin at receiver. You want to rip up all of that because you refuse to admit Dwayne Haskins was an immature crybaby who didn't want to prepare--who Snyder forced on this team. What is the coaching staff supposed to develop with that?

 

You're approaching GOATFrerotte level obtuse with Haskins. And I don't expect you to say anything else other than "I'm not going to open that debate again." Because you can't. You're over your heels in love with your own opinion of him that you can't see the forest for the trees.

 

[Going Commando]

25 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said:

@stevemcqueen1, I enjoy your analysis on everything but QB. This staff has had nothing to work with, and got better as the season went on using 4 different QBs, a RB that had 33 carries in college (without an injury has 1000 yrds rushing), a TE that had a total of 45 targets in his career, a pieces-and-parts-OL  that vastly improved as the season wore on, and a bunch of nothing outside of McLaurin at receiver. You want to rip up all of that because you refuse to admit Dwayne Haskins was an immature crybaby who didn't want to prepare--who Snyder forced on this team. What is the coaching staff supposed to develop with that?

 

You're approaching GOATFrerotte level obtuse with Haskins. And I don't expect you to say anything else other than "I'm not going to open that debate again." Because you can't. You're over your heels in love with your own opinion of him that you can't see the forest for the trees.

 

 

I assume this is a response to the post just made, in which absolutely nothing I wrote was false.  I think you and many others on the board and in the fanbase as a whole can't accept that Haskins had value and that bad coaching played a big part in his failure because you need to believe in this coaching staff and believe that they'll get it right next time.  You all keep saying I'm the one who can't be objective about this situation when you're the ones lying to yourselves and pretending like all of those failures of the offense either didn't happen, or were entirely the fault of Haskins.  I understand why.  I'm just tired of always lying to myself about this team.  I don't care if that hurts anyone's feelings.

[markshark84]

1 hour ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

Haskins only started six of the games.  We had one of the worst offenses in the NFL this season.  The coaching staff abandoned the development of a raw QB prospect after four games in favor of career journeymen in an attempt to expand the playbook.  We scrapped to a 7-9 record because we had the #2 defense in the league this year and the division was terrible.  The offense was a complete mess.  Not just the quarterbacks, the offense as a whole.  Atrocious spacing in the passing game.  Inability to get blitzes blocked the entire year.  Stagnant running game that was one of the least productive in the league despite the fact we had a top notch defense keeping games close and the run game was supposed to be the coaching staff's forte.  The bad coaching goes beyond the objectively terrible performance of the offense.  Using every half of football as a referendum on the future of your QBs is bad coaching.  Telling the QB you are trying to develop that if he has another multiple turnover game then he'll lose his job is bad coaching.  Demoting that QB to third string the next week after a loss and thus scapegoating him for it is bad coaching.  That is demonstrated incompetence in the handling and developing of a young QB prospect that this coaching staff is guilty of.  Not Bruce Allen, not Dan Snyder, not Dwayne Haskins.  And those are basic failures.

 

I feel like you are completely ignoring all the off-the-field issues Haskins had.  I personally think the DC coaching staff gave Haskins too much benefit/leeway when he screwed up over and over and over again.  After all, the dude did compromise his HC's health in order to attend a strip club with his girlfriend.... And the on-field deficiencies Haskins displayed were at a minimum partial to complete by-products of his off-the-field mistakes.  When you have a young QB that lacks even a sprinkling of maturity and the ability to digest instruction, it is VERY difficult to impossible to develop them.  After all, these coaches' jobs/careers are on the line.  If it's me and I have an employee that time and time again won't listen, and i can get fired for it --- I am moving on and going with a guy that I can at least train.  That is a no-brainer.

 

Many of the complaints you reference can be attributed to the QB play honestly.  Blitz pick-up and identification is one of the QBs primary pre-snap jobs.  Haskins lack of preparation is WELL documented.  A bad run game can be the product of when a DEF doesn't respect the pass --- especially when you have a QB that holds the ball, is not elusive within the pocket, and is slow thru progressions.  That said, we do need an upgrade at the RB position as our group was not very good at identifying holes or execution.  Haskins' footwork was atrocious --- again a result of lack of discipline and practice.  I believe the coaching staff had no other option but to threaten Haskins --- since it was clear he did not take things very seriously and acted like an entitled child.  It's similar in parenting --- you ask and ask and then ask differently and then yell, and if it doesn't work, you threaten and then follow up with the threat the first time.  And demoting him to 3rd string was honestly correct considering it has been proven he was the worst performing QB on the roster.  

 

We were 1-5 with Haskins as QB.  There was little to no mental/physical development during his mid-season benching, despite his words that it did.  Haskins' QBR in 202 was 30.8, which was lowest among ALL qualifying NFL QBs. His QBR was 20 in 2019 (again, lowest among qualifying NFL QBs).  That isn't coaching..... come on.

 

When you take Haskins out of our offense, it wasn't horrendous.  No "good", but not so bad we need to burn it down.  Don't get me wrong, there are a number of issues with talent at the WR, TE, RB, Tackle positions --- but there were 3 QBs that showed they could produce in the environment with Haskins being the only one that couldn't.  Personally, I believe that releasing Haskins was the absolute best thing you could have done for him.  My hope is that it is a wake up call to him.  Sometimes you have to hit rock bottom in order to grow, and my hope is that this is his and he will realize his issues, work on them, and come back a better player on a different team.

 

Just read your other post, so I edited this one to include.... I agree that what you wrote was 100% fact, except I'd consider them incomplete and some are opinions on what is "bad coaching". Which include:  

- The bad coaching goes beyond the objectively terrible performance of the offense 

-- Using every half of football as a referendum on the future of your QBs is bad coaching. 

-- Telling the QB you are trying to develop that if he has another multiple turnover game then he'll lose his job is bad coaching. 

-- Demoting that QB to third string the next week after a loss and thus scapegoating him for it is bad coaching.  That is demonstrated incompetence in the handling and developing of a young QB prospect that this coaching staff is guilty of.  

 

To those opinions, I think it is difficult to come to such conclusions without being there behind the scenes.  It would be necessary to know what Haskins was doing in film rooms, at practice, with the team in the locker room, etc.  It appeared as if he had lost the locker room (other than Chase Young, who was his college teammate, but even his comments appeared to show he was in the minority of players that supported him).  You can't "coach" maturity, work ethic, dedication, selflessness, leadership, etc.  A QB needs all those things and Haskins didn't appear to possess any of them.  GOOD coaching is making the difficult decisions and cutting bait before more damage is done.  Time will tell whether this was good coaching or bad..... The similarities with respect to maturity, dedication, prep, etc. with Manziel are present (without the substance abuse).

[HigSkin]

 

[RWJ]

I think LOT and QB are the biggest need and both with go in Rd1 and Rd 2 in whatever order and possibly a trade up back into the 1st to get both.

[UK Skins]

I can't read Twitter at work. Is he advocating we take a guard in the 1st round again?! i don't care how good Scherff has been you just don't take interior linemen in the 1st round. i will smash my TV if that happens.

[PlayAction]

3 minutes ago, UK Skins said:

I can't read Twitter at work. Is he advocating we take a guard in the 1st round again?! i don't care how good Scherff has been you just don't take interior linemen in the 1st round. i will smash my TV if that happens.

 

I think  the idea was to draft a guard instead of paying a fortune for Scherff.  It's something to consider.  S. Charles can play Guard if he's healthy but the team had been grooming him for LG.  If he's an upgrade over Schweitzer then great - the team upgrades the starter and backup positions.  Or, perhaps he's athletic enough to fill the RG position.   I'd like Cornelius Lucas to be the quality swing Tackle going forward so I agree that a Tackle might be a higher value pick.  

[Going Commando]

26 minutes ago, markshark84 said:

Many of the complaints you reference can be attributed to the QB play honestly.  Blitz pick-up and identification is one of the QBs primary pre-snap jobs.  Haskins lack of preparation is WELL documented.  A bad run game can be the product of when a DEF doesn't respect the pass --- especially when you have a QB that holds the ball, is not elusive within the pocket, and is slow thru progressions.  That said, we do need an upgrade at the RB position as our group was not very good at identifying holes or execution.  Haskins' footwork was atrocious --- again a result of lack of discipline and practice.  I believe the coaching staff had no other option but to threaten Haskins --- since it was clear he did not take things very seriously and acted like an entitled child.  It's similar in parenting --- you ask and ask and then ask differently and then yell, and if it doesn't work, you threaten and then follow up with the threat the first time.  And demoting him to 3rd string was honestly correct considering it has been proven he was the worst performing QB on the roster.  

 

This is a good post, and I'm not sure if you're a new member, but I hope you stick around here regardless.  You are fair in your criticisms, although I have one quibble for the sake of the record: Haskins didn't go to a strip club.  He made a dumbass mistake and went to a party for his girlfriend's birthday, the strip club narrative feels like an attempt to pile on the kid.  It gets repeated so much it gains the veneer of truth.

 

I think you're buying into the scapegoating of the QB to be honest.  Issues with blitz pick up are not just failures of the QB, and I don't think even primarily failures of the QB.  It's also failures of the OL and TEs and RBs and failures of the coaching staff in the installation of their protections and the game-planning and the in-game adjustment and the playcalling.  Issues with spacing in the passing game are failures of the guys running the routes, but even bigger failures with concept design and game-planning and playcalling.  And I think it's a pretty big stretch to blame the QBs for the failures of the run game.  Things like the QB taking too long to go through reads in the passing game don't really have any bearing on the performance of the run game, and in 12 of the games we played this season, someone other than Haskins was playing QB.  Mainly Alex Smith, who was generally getting the ball out fast.  The failures in the run game again come down to the OL play, the RB play, and most of all, the coaching.  Issues with preparation and game-planning and situational play-calling were frequent and recurring anchors on the performance of the offense.

 

As far as the mistakes in the way Rivera and his staff handled Haskins, they're stuff you just can't do as a coach and be successful.  You can't make your QB turtle up and be terrified to throw picks, and that's what Rivera did after the Cleveland game.  You can't hinge their job on how they played in the previous half, and that's what Rivera did after the Seattle game.  He admitted this in his comments to the media.  And you absolutely don't scapegoat them for losses and tell the media that the rest of your team played well enough to win.  I know that all of this happened for sure instead of having to speculate on what might have happened behind the scenes, because Rivera did all of this out in the open in his media sessions.

 

The reason I'm focusing my criticism on Rivera and the coaches is because they are the ones with all of the power, and they are the ones who are still here.  And I definitely don't think this staff did Dwayne any favors.  I don't think they were ever seriously interested in committing to him and that is clear from one of their first moves being to trade for Kyle Allen.  I think they wrecked his confidence and did a poor job coaching him, and I think he was a useful scapegoat for team failures this season.  At the end of the day, it's another high cost player whose value tanked on their watch, and if we want to talk about accountability, why are we ignoring the coaching staff and FO in this equation?  That's not accountability.

[Riggo#44]

1 hour ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

I assume this is a response to the post just made, in which absolutely nothing I wrote was false.  I think you and many others on the board and in the fanbase as a whole can't accept that Haskins had value and that bad coaching played a big part in his failure because you need to believe in this coaching staff and believe that they'll get it right next time.  You all keep saying I'm the one who can't be objective about this situation when you're the ones lying to yourselves and pretending like all of those failures of the offense either didn't happen, or were entirely the fault of Haskins.  I understand why.  I'm just tired of always lying to myself about this team.  I don't care if that hurts anyone's feelings.

 

Well, if you check my history--I have been very lukewarm on Turner. I want to see him get some talent. I never said it was all Haskins fault either. I pointed out a number of deficiencies that were not Haskins. I am in no way sold on Turner. I do believe in Ken Zampese--he has an excellent reputation with quarterbacks. I believe they will get it right because of other, more interested players have developed here: Curl, Gibson, Thomas, among other have developed. Tell me, what has Haskins done to earn the job? Where did he improve? How many players defended him after getting benched? 

 

If it's a coaching failure--why did a QB off the street, the backup we traded a 5th rounder for (whom many said we overpaid), and a one-legged veteran all move the ball and make the offense far more efficient, with the same cast?

 

Give me someone that loves playing football, not loves being a professional football player.

 

[JamesMadisonSkins]

26 minutes ago, UK Skins said:

I can't read Twitter at work. Is he advocating we take a guard in the 1st round again?! i don't care how good Scherff has been you just don't take interior linemen in the 1st round. i will smash my TV if that happens.

 

Basically Standig breaks down the prospect a bit more. That he played LG last year and graded very highly, and bumped out to LT this year to replace Austin Jackson. I think he translates as a LG in the NFL but Standig talked about positional diversity and how he could make sense at Guard but aluded to him being an option at LT as well.

[evmiii]

I really think due to the lack of true depth in the QB position this years draft class, the WFT will look at QB options via free agency first.  Maybe a round 3 QB to put in the mix at a reasonable cost.  I expect best player available with a slight lean towards OL and WR.  I think we can get a quality OL and WR in the first couple rounds.  

[Dark Acre]

In this day of rookie impact players, salary cap issues (and the now-vaunted "rookie contract"), injuries, and just plain wiffing on picks, I wouldn't trade up and I'd even consider trading out of the 1st depending on who's there and what we can get.  Haskins cost us 3 picks (the one we used on him and the 2 it took us to trade up to get Sweat).  Use the picks to stock the team.  Use FA to convince the right players that here is where they're going to shine, especially if they'd been misused on their prior team.  It's easy to pick Chase Young at 2, but Antonio Gibson?  Kamren Curl?  Hudson?  S-W?  What may we have, but for injury, in Charles and AGG?  Bring in a high-priced FA, even one who fits, just because you can, and that starts to affect future flexibility.  Build for the future and avoid being a one or two-year wonder.

[Going Commando]

1 hour ago, UK Skins said:

I can't read Twitter at work. Is he advocating we take a guard in the 1st round again?! i don't care how good Scherff has been you just don't take interior linemen in the 1st round. i will smash my TV if that happens.

 

I disagree.  I think elite guards are a big market inefficiency, and DeCastro, Martin, Scherff, and Nelson were all great first round picks.  Dominant players at any regular 22 position are worth first rounders.  And guards who can play multiple positions are particularly valuable.  Haven't really gotten into Vera-Tucker's cut ups yet, but he's one of the guys I'm looking forward to watching the most.  I'm interested in OLs in the first and second rounds.

[Rex Tomb]

8 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

I disagree.  I think elite guards are a big market inefficiency, and DeCastro, Martin, Scherff, and Nelson were all great first round picks.  Dominant players at any regular 22 position are worth first rounders.  And guards who can play multiple positions are particularly valuable.  Haven't really gotten into Vera-Tucker's cut ups yet, but he's one of the guys I'm looking forward to watching the most.  I'm interested in OLs in the first and second rounds.

Agreed Steve, unless one of the standout LBs falls to us, I say we definitely look to upgrade the offensive line in the first two rounds.  Enough of pinning our hopes on a 5th or 6th round player.  Those rarely work out for us, although I'm not sure why.  A guard a tackle could really help upgrade our line.

 

If we have a chance to draft Najee Harris, though, I say go with that in round 1.  We need that type of back since Antonio Gibson appears to be a little fragile and slows down late in the season when he's the featured back.

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, Riggo#44 said:

 

Well, if you check my history--I have been very lukewarm on Turner. I want to see him get some talent. I never said it was all Haskins fault either. I pointed out a number of deficiencies that were not Haskins. I am in no way sold on Turner. I do believe in Ken Zampese--he has an excellent reputation with quarterbacks. I believe they will get it right because of other, more interested players have developed here: Curl, Gibson, Thomas, among other have developed. Tell me, what has Haskins done to earn the job? Where did he improve? How many players defended him after getting benched? 

 

If it's a coaching failure--why did a QB off the street, the backup we traded a 5th rounder for (whom many said we overpaid), and a one-legged veteran all move the ball and make the offense far more efficient, with the same cast?

 

Give me someone that loves playing football, not loves being a professional football player.

 

 

The mistake that Rivera admitted recently was more or less he should have cut bait on Haskins sooner versus giving him all the reps in practice and starting him at the beginning of the season.  I think its cool he's owning up to it.   The season likely would have turned out even better than it did if Haskins never started and they got rid of him while he still had a sliver of trade value left.  

 

Rivera didn't do everything perfect this season, no coach does.   He kept Kyle and the prior scouts and I heard multiple times he leaned hard on them in the off season.  Clearly, none of them were fans of Haskins.  So why did they even bother with the charade.  Personally, I think they are right and the dude will wind up a bust whether he's coddled more or not.  But Rivera somewhat owned up that he shouldn't have annoited Haskins from the jump.  I agree.  It is what is it is.   When you got coaches who feel nauseous about the pick and Kyle actually blew up in the room -- that isn't a good start for any draft pick.

 

But that's not the fault of Kyle or the coaches.  Their opinion is what it is and it should matter.  Hopefully the lesson here is our buffoon owner Dan Snyder stops playing GM and overruling the football guys 

 

 

 

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/washingtonfootball/news/vomit-3-better-choices-inside-the-wft-drafting-of-dwayne-haskins

 

ESPN's Diana Russini reminds us that a coach was literally sick to his stomach and ready to throw up at the thought of Haskins. 

 

What we have also heard is this: As the Washington pick at No. 15 drew closer, there was not much discussion and banter in the tense war room. Kyle Smith, then the director of college scouting and now the vice president of player personnel, had three players to select at the Washington spot, according to sources.

Three names. "Haskins'' was not among them.

 

Montez Sweat, who Washington would later trade back up in the first round for with Indianapolis, was one of the players. Sweat later cost a 2019 second-rounder and then what turned out to be the No. 34 overall pick this year to move back into the first round. 

What's more is, Smith apparently waited and waited as the clock and picks started to inch closer to Washington's choice ... and then he started to take some command of the room.

 

Smith started to ask questions on what the choice was going to be. Sources described to us a tense silence. Smith asked the room specifically: Is the organization really thinking of taking Haskins?

 

At that point, one voice chimed in. It was the owner's voice, confirming that Haskins was going to be the choice.

His choice.

 

More silence ensued in the moments around the pick and with the pick made, Smith pushed himself up from the table and unloaded on the room - a speech that was described as "fiery and passionate'' about the pick and how much he disagreed with the selection.

 

Smith then sat down. Some in the room that night have told us since that they thought he would be fired immediately. Maybe he sat down just in time to retain his job?

 

Last January, coach Ron Rivera engineered Kyle Smith's promotion. Since then, Rivera has been the singular power-broker in the organization, gaining the respect of all, even Snyder ... and this week, flexing his muscle by singularly making the decision to cut Haskins.

Dan Snyder realized too late that his decision was wrong - and that the other people in that room, Smith and others, were right. Any one of the other three choices on the WFT board would've been superior to Dwayne Haskins. And any scout/coach reaction to a pick, would've been superior to vomiting.

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

I see him often in the third round in mocks but I'd heavily consider Jordan in the late 2nd where we are picking, though I haevn't really dived deep into the TEs yet, I've just watched three of them closely thus far. 

 

 

 

 

[Commander -JB-]

If Haskins being so wildly inept at playing QB in this league is the single reason Snyder finally steps away and never involves himself in the player personnel decisions ever again GOD BLESS HASKINS! 

[RWJ]

If Cowden is hired as the new GM wonder if there will interest in Mariotta?  Maybe nothing but just curious?  Anyone thought about that?  How much would the Raiders want for him.