visionary Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 5 minutes ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said: several doctors have said a national lockdown won’t help... Dr. C. Cowgirl. and Dr. Cousins C? 1 1 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearrock Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 4 minutes ago, twa said: they prescribe Chloroquine all the time, and have done it in large groups expected to fight, I don't understand the last part. Was something left out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 (edited) Edited March 23, 2020 by visionary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 Last Monday... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The 12th Commandment Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 36 minutes ago, bearrock said: I see the downside for the business, but what's the downside for the government? Why would a voluntary contract be preferable to a mandated one from the government's perspective? Future campaign contributions? Pissing off the people (board members) you socialize with? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CousinsCowgirl84 Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 (edited) 32 minutes ago, visionary said: they were on CNN tonight. The guy on the issue with a national lockdown is that basically until there is a vaccine we are passéd the point where it would be effective. A national lockdown wouldn’t flatten the curve, it would just shift it in time. As soon as the lock down was over we would be where we are now. I’ve just looked on google and i can’t seem to find the jist of what he was saying, but the dr on cnn did say it.... Edited March 23, 2020 by CousinsCowgirl84 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 16 minutes ago, bearrock said: I don't understand the last part. Was something left out? antimalarial drug, they gave it to the military in tropical areas also used for lupus and arthritis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, twa said: why would it's use preclude using other alternatives? how many will die if you ignore a drug shown to work against immune systems going wild? it is also shown to prevent similar viruses multiplying. 1. While not a doctor, I'd be extremely hesitant to suggest giving people more than one drug at a time in this situation, except maybe in extreme cases. You have a novel virus where we don't really understand all the effects it is having on the human body, a drug that can have pretty serious side effects in hydroxychloroquine, and then other drugs that are pretty new and haven't heavily been tested in humans for the most part. That seems to me to be a combination of asking for unanticipated side affects, and while not a doctor, I'm pretty big on the idea of first do no harm. 2. Then if everybody is essentially being given hydroxychloroquine, then by default you are precluding the use of other drugs. And I'd point out that hydroxychloroquine is an unspecific molecule that does multiple things in the body that we don't even completely understand. Its ability to prevent Plasmodium infections is not believed to be tied to its anti-viral properties, where the anti-viral properties aren't really completely understood. So your giving people something that is affecting the body in multiple different ways with a virus that is having unknown impacts on the human body with other drugs that aren't really tested for large populations of people. If you want to do that, I wouldn't be shocked if you ended up doing more damage than good. (Generally, under the normal FDA process, I don't think hydroxychloroquine would even be approved as an anti-viral because there doesn't appear to be a clear description of the mechanism of its effect. It seems like it is possibly doing 2 or 3 things.) Edited March 23, 2020 by PeterMP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 (edited) Edited March 23, 2020 by visionary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 2 minutes ago, PeterMP said: 1. While not a doctor, I'd be extremely hesitant to suggest giving people more than one drug at a time in this situation, except maybe in extreme cases. You have a novel virus where we don't really understand all the effects it is having on the human body, a drug that can have pretty serious side effects in hydroxychloroquine, and then other drugs that are pretty new and haven't heavily been tested in humans for the most part. That seems to me to be a combination of asking for unanticipated side affects, and while not a doctor, I'm pretty big on the idea of first do no harm. 2. Then if everybody is essentially being given hydroxychloroquine, then by default you are precluding the use of other drugs. SK disagrees with your second point, and the AIFA Scientific Technical Commission of the Italian Medicines Agency expressed a favorable opinion on including the off-label use of chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine for the treatment of COVID-19 if you prefer no harm then the hydroxychloroquine is the conservative choice, though it is not needed for most Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CousinsCowgirl84 Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 I think if he has the votes democrats will let us know... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 (edited) Edited March 23, 2020 by visionary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skintime Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 42 minutes ago, visionary said: Dr. C. Cowgirl. and Dr. Cousins C? Don't forget Dr. Van Nostrand 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 (edited) Edited March 23, 2020 by visionary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 (edited) 33 minutes ago, twa said: SK disagrees with your second point, and the AIFA Scientific Technical Commission of the Italian Medicines Agency expressed a favorable opinion on including the off-label use of chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine for the treatment of COVID-19 if you prefer no harm then the hydroxychloroquine is the conservative choice, though it is not needed for most Hydroxycholoroquine is only the conservative choice if it is actually effective and even about as effective then other drugs. Again, if its effective for 75% population and one of the other drugs is effective for 90%, unless the other drugs have some pretty bad side effects, it isn't the conservative choice. South Korea was using anti-HIV drugs, which now don't seem to be effective, and there's nothing been published about the combination with hydroxychloroquine. https://www.nejm.org/doi/10.1056/NEJMoa2001282 Based on the best evidence, South Korea was at best wasting time if they thought it was actually effective and potentially even harming people (13% had to withdrawn because of issues, which are known to happen with the HIV anti-proteases so if they were giving them to people and not carefully monitoring them, they like made the situation for those people worse. Not saying they did as they might have been carefully monitoring. And that's not event taking into account possible combination effects that the people running the study weren't looking for.) (And I'll point out the anti-HIV drugs aren't really newer so there you have a better expectation of the side effects that you'd expect with them individually, and I specifically excluded them when I wrote because of the most recent work questioning their effectiveness. J&J has even come out and said they don't expect their HIV anti-protease to be effective because the HIV and Covid-19 protease targets are pretty different.) **EDIT** Thinking about it more, I suspect there's actually even interaction information out there on hydroxychloroquine and HIV protease inhibitors. Presumably in parts of the world there have been people with HIV that have also gotten hydroxychloroquine for malaria so that's at least not a new combination and might be a reasonable thing to combine based on what is known. But the increasing consensus seems to be that that HIV protease inhibitors aren't likely to be very effective, and they do have side effects alone even.) Edited March 23, 2020 by PeterMP 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCS Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 @twa at least source a few of the things you're semi quoting. Might be helpful to those you are presenting them to. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 I follow a lot of these treatment possibilities. I think they will find some real world evidence to support the GILD Remdesivir drug as well as the HCQ + Azithro in the next month. Hopefully it’s the HCQ combo because it is more easily administered. I plan to hunker down for the next six weeks until they figure something out. Or as long as it takes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumbo Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 there are those whose propensities may not be conducive to their survival in such times as these i'm not speaking virally 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 🙄 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sacks 'n' Stuff Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 What are the asks the dems are making that the Rs don't want? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spjunkies Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 Just now, Sacks 'n' Stuff said: What are the asks the dems are making that the Rs don't want? I know one is more money for us. We know that can't be allowed! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 Romney’s reaction to the senate vote is such an old trick that it’s essentially entry level politics. Frame anyone that opposes a popular relief bill as harming the good men and women of America. Preferably with a flag behind you while an eagle circles proudly over head. Absolutely everyone saw that coming. 6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 (edited) Edited March 23, 2020 by visionary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hersh Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 1 hour ago, visionary said: Per rural hospitals. I feel bad for rural American because I'm not a cold-hearted ****, but this is what happens when you repeatedly vote for a party that doesn't give a **** about health care. White rural people have no one to blame but themselves for that. It's happening in NC. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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