The Official ES 2020 Free Agency Thread /Tracker... Kendall Fuller,OG Schweitzer, KP Louis, Thomas Davis, McKissic, TE Logan Thomas, OT Lucas, QB Kyle Allen (trd 5th Rd pick), RB P. Barber, LB Davis, Ronald Darby

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[WilberMarshall]

1 hour ago, KillBill26 said:

Exactly!  Which is why I thought Brady would never leave the pats.  There will always be a debate here in New England about who is mostly responsible for the pats rings: Brady or belichick.  That's why I think there is a 0% chance Brady goes to Vegas, bc ppl will say Brady couldn't do it on his own.  Raiders won't even make the playoffs in 2020 even with brady.  Also 0% that the pats tank.  Brady to Tampa I'd put at 2%.  Brady to chargers I think is the front runner, and Brady to Indy a possibility.  Both of those teams have a shot with an upgrade at QB. Especially the chargers with a couple easy moves.  

 

The pats will reload, I could see them signing Bridgewater, and they will be right there in the end once again. No tanking for the pats. 

 

Now, the Bridgewater angle is something I didn't think of. If they get him, they will be back playing in the AFC championship game. Funny to see the Pats lose players and still remain at the echelon of NFL teams. Even when Brady got injured. They did it with backup QBs.  

 

The Pats have the Patriot Way. Moveable parts... All pros have left, probowlers have left, even hall of Famers left... but they reload and keep it moving. 

 

If only they can find a replacement for Gonk, they won't miss Brady that much. 

[Skin'emAlive]

7 minutes ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

 

The most disrespectful thing you can do is not take someone at their word when you're discussing on a forum like this. Why bother talking to each other if we aren't presenting our opinions in good faith? If someone around here like KDawg tells you what he thinks and why, that's what he thinks man.

Ok..?

[clskinsfan]

1 minute ago, Dont Taze Me Bro said:

 

When they get old or start declining, they change teams sometimes.  Montana to the Chiefs, Peyton to the Broncos, Favre to the Jets and then Vikings.  

Yeah. One every four or five years. So far this off season we have 2, probably 3 if you think Hopkins is a first ballot guy. I do. My original post was about the craziness of this particular offseason. And to say it has not been crazy as Skinem claimed is laughable. We have had crazy trades on top of free agency.

[kingdaddy]

29 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

Trading for Cam Newton would be yet more evidence that we're still a dumbass organization who has no idea how to develop a franchise QB.

I don't know about that. I wouldn't trade much for Cam but bringing him in here to compete could be the perfect thing for RR, Cam and DH. Nothing would be promised to anyone. Let Cam come in and lets see what he can do in a new city with a hotshot young QB fighting for the starting job. Haskins could use help and it would be good to see him pushed by a vet in that QB room. That being said, I wouldn't give up more than a 5th round pick for Cam at this point given his injury situation. Fact is, we need a backup QB and chances are it's gonna be a guy who's left out somewhere else (Newton, Winston, Dalton, Carr?) DH should be prepared to win the job as opposed to having it handed to him. RR made it clear that he's not patient and wants to win right away; it's easier to do that with a proven vet than a young kid still figuring out the league. And I'm in no way saying that DH isn't the QB of the future in DC, it just might be further down the road then he'd like unless he kicks ass in summer camp and preseason. 

[crabbypatty]

25 minutes ago, Dont Taze Me Bro said:

 

He didn't play 14 games last year, he played in 2.

haha, I meant 14 of the games he missed were last year.  Guess I should have worded it a bit more clearly.

[Conn]

4 minutes ago, Skin'emAlive said:

Ok..?

 

It's common decency. Asking further questions is fine, that's discussion. But responding to a poster expressing a consistent opinion with "🤔you sure about that" like they aren't being honest is bizarre. 

 

Just my opinion. All we have here is various interactions between people who agree and disagree. To question whether that's even reliable seems out of bounds unless someone has demonstrated some sort of intellectual dishonesty. 

[WilberMarshall]

1 hour ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

 

I get not wanting to pay Amari and the potential upside of Harmon on a 6th round contract.

 

But lol at this. 

 

Dude, you do remember the Amari at the Raiders? We have a young WR with all the attributes plus he catches anything thrown his way. He has a superior catch radius. He works on his craft. 

Point is that Amari is not $19 million dollars better than Harmon. 

 

Give Haskins a pass catching TE and see everyone get better. 

 

Glad he turned us down. Saved us from ourselves. 

[HTTRDynasty]

 

[kingdaddy]

34 minutes ago, LLandryistheshiz said:

We can’t afford Cam Newton this is useless speculation.
 

We’re riding with Dwayne or drafting Tua this year. If Dwayne kills it, we stick with him.

 

And if Dwayne sucks or doesn’t improve enough next year, they can get rid of Alex, and Dwayne, and bring in a rookie (with a top 10 draft pick), or a vet. 
 

We simply can’t spend $50 million combined on QBs and succeed.

 

Especially now that there is an extra playoff spot up for grabs, the line between rebuilding and playoffs is even thinner.

We offered Cooper 22 mil a year, Cam only costs 21.....we can afford him if we want him, especially if we deal Trent. It wouldn't be ideal for our cap purposes but we could squeeze him in. This organization needs star power and things to get this fan base back. If RR thinks Cam can play and help then we would have to accept it and hope for the best. RR made it clear that he's bringing in someone to compete with DH, Cam would make sense if RR wants him. 

[RWJ]

Rumor has it the Panther are closing in on a deal with Bridgewater ,thus the Cam Newton trade. 

[Skin'emAlive]

8 minutes ago, KDawg said:

100%. Read my posts on Haskins. Apparently most people don’t.

 

I think he stunk last season (for a majority, light turned on later). 
 

I think he showed some promise towards the end of the year. 
 

I don’t think he had a great work ethic, and I don’t love his mechanics.

 

I think he has put in some decent work this offseason. 
 

I think he still has mechanical issues.

 

I think Zampese can really help Haskins.

 

I think Haskins has prototype physical tools at QB. 
 

I think with proper support, Haskins can develop. 
 

I just don’t think he played well last year and I don’t like his mechanics.

 

I never once “gave up on him”.

We already had this discussion, so I don’t feel like going further with it. Frankly I disagree with your definition of your stated opinion, as it is far too early to judge. And I  find it strange to be so outspoken on a particular young player while also proclaiming the statement of not having given up on him to be your official opinion that supersedes all other previous comments. I’m done

[Voice_of_Reason]

4 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

We won three games last year and have given the impression that we are unsettled at QB because of what I consider to be incompetence in handling Haskins, and a lack of clear commitment to him.  Of course we're not going to be attractive to FAs who are making decisions for one and two season windows.  But our perception can be turned around as soon as next offseason just by winning more games and developing and commiting to Haskins.

So I have several thoughts on this, trying to put myself in the position of a player:

 

1. The 'Skins have a new coach, a young and unproven VP of Player Personnel, a young, unproven OC, and a question mark at QB.  There are positive signs about all of these, but nobody knows how it's going to play out, so it would be prudent to take a wait and see perspective.  Especially on offense.  On defense, you might have a stronger case 

 

2. All the players know about our fan situation/support.  They know they will, at least for some period of time, be playing in either empty or opposing fan filled stadiums.  They know about the fan unrest, and NONE of them can think back to a time when the Redskins were good, because most of them weren't born yet. We were last good in 1992. Let that sink in. If you are a player under 28, you weren't alive when the 'Skins last went to the SB.  Most FAs we are targeting weren't born yet.    So, if you have a choice to get paid $20m/year from Cleveland or Dallas, who at least fills it's stadium with Browns/Cowboy fans, or $20m from the Redskins where you have no idea if you're going to get support, that's a real thing, especially given #1.  If they had a QB, coach, and were going to go out and win 10+ games next year, then this is a very different situation.  

 

3. The team facilities, including the stadium, are just crap, and everybody knows it.  Dan is trying to hang on so he doesn't have to spend a lot of money renovating Redskins Park just to abandon it when the new stadium/facility are built.  I get that, but it doesn't help right now.  

 

The going narrative about the bad organization I think is mis-placed.  They blame Dan, culture, etc.  I don't think the players care a hoot about Dan. In fact, a lot of players like Dan.  Especially the high priced guys.  Players care about money, being in a position to succeed, and most get a rush from the game day experience.  These are things which we haven't really had for 20 years.  The root cause of the problem is Dan.  But players aren't making a decision based on the owner.  They're making a decision based on money, ability to succeed, and the corresponding adrenaline rush.  

 

It's going to take Ron some time to turn this thing around.  My hope is they can take a huge jump this year, especially defensively, and Haskins can really show out.  If that's the case, then we immediately become a more appealing place to come, and fans will start to return, etc. (Of course, assuming we have football.)

 

It's going to be a slog.  The damage inflicted on the team by Dan/Bruce and even before that by Dan/Vinny is REAL.  And the only way to really get out of it is to over-perform the talent.  That means outstanding coaching, and fantastic drafting to "prime the pump" and get people juiced up.  

 

The good news is Ron did exactly this with Carolina when he got there.  So it's not like he doesn't know what it takes.  

[Conn]

4 minutes ago, WilberMarshall said:

 

Dude, you do remember the Amari at the Raiders? We have a young WR with all the attributes plus he catches anything thrown his way. He has a superior catch radius. He works on his craft. 

Point is that Amari is not $19 million dollars better than Harmon. 

 

Give Haskins a pass catching TE and see everyone get better. 

 

Glad he turned us down. Saved us from ourselves. 

 

You didn't say "Amari is not $19 million dollars better than Harmon" (even though I may argue that as well). 

 

What you did say was: "I think Harmon can give you almost the same thing as Amari."

 

I disagreed with that and found it a funny statement. It's over-the-top homerism. 

 

It's fine to not want or like Cooper. I like Harmon as a potentially reliable possession guy. Nothing about Harmon is close to Cooper's skill-set or says he can fill the same role. To say Harmon has "all the attributes" is an opinion you can have, but from my view objectively not true either. That's all, we disagree. Harmon imo cannot "give you almost the same thing as Amari", in his role on the offense, effect on the defense, or his production. 

[KDawg]

2 minutes ago, Skin'emAlive said:

We already had this discussion, so I don’t feel like going further with it. Frankly I disagree with your definition of your stated opinion, as it is far too early to judge. And I  find it strange to be so outspoken on a particular young player while also proclaiming the statement of not having given up on him to be your official opinion that supersedes all other previous comments. I’m done

 

You're wrong. It's that simple.

 

I speak on the topic because there are people here who think he is infallible. We don't know who he is yet. 

 

I've been here for years and have proven I speak my mind and mean what I say and say what I mean. 

 

Feel free to continue to look for meaning in things that isn't there. 

 

"I disagree with your definition of your opinion"

 

 

What?

[Voice_of_Reason]

3 minutes ago, RWJ said:

Rumor has it the Panther are closing in on a deal with Bridgewater ,thus the Cam Newton trade. 

God I don't want Newton at all.  Like even a little bit.  I hope we manage to avoid that trap.  

 

I have to think Ron understands Newton's health cost him his last job as much as anything, and that would not be a good thing to start with here.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[“Misdirection”]

5 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

We offered Cooper 22 mil a year, Cam only costs 21.....we can afford him if we want him, especially if we deal Trent. It wouldn't be ideal for our cap purposes but we could squeeze him in. This organization needs star power and things to get this fan base back. If RR thinks Cam can play and help then we would have to accept it and hope for the best. RR made it clear that he's bringing in someone to compete with DH, Cam would make sense if RR wants him. 

We can of course literally afford him, what I’m saying is, from an asset allocation standpoint, you are putting yourself incredibly behind the 8 ball. 
 

22 on cooper fills WR hole. 21 on Cam and you still have that hole, and a QB who will want a new deal and evidence that you’re building around him. 
 

makes more sense to build around a cheap QB, or pay someone next year when you can get Alex off the books much cleaner. 

[RWJ]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

Got to think Boston's on the list too.

[Fat Stupid Loser]

9 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

We offered Cooper 22 mil a year, Cam only costs 21.....we can afford him if we want him, especially if we deal Trent. It wouldn't be ideal for our cap purposes but we could squeeze him in. This organization needs star power and things to get this fan base back. If RR thinks Cam can play and help then we would have to accept it and hope for the best. RR made it clear that he's bringing in someone to compete with DH, Cam would make sense if RR wants him. 

This is making me nauseous.

[Jericho]

Will be interesting to see where Cam Newton ends up. Obviously have to see how this QB carousel plays outs. But if Brady does go to the Chargers and Rivers to Indi and Winston stays in TB, then New England is the most obvious place without a QB. Sure Chicago could make a play and possibly Miami (though they seem headed towards a draft pick), but there aren't a ton of options. and I don't see the Redskins being a strong one.

[WilberMarshall]

Just now, ConnSKINS26 said:

 

You didn't say "Amari is not $19 million dollars better than Harmon" (even though I may argue that as well). 

 

What you did say was: "I think Harmon can give you almost the same thing as Amari."

 

I disagreed with that and found it a funny statement. It's over-the-top homerism. 

 

It's fine to not want or like Cooper. I like Harmon as a potentially reliable possession guy. Nothing about Harmon is close to Cooper's skill-set or says he can fill the same role. To say Harmon has "all the attributes" is an opinion you can have, but from my view objectively not true either. That's all, we disagree. Harmon imo cannot "give you almost the same thing as Amari", in his role on the offense, effect on the defense, or his production. 

 

Glad you stated the qualifier, "Almost". That is what I said. 

 

The last free agent WR that panned out was Pierre Garcon. There was a reason he panned out. Before him was Moss. 

 

I watch a lot of games and I watch even more game tape in the offseason.  Amari is a good receiver but not worth paying him the reported $22 million.  We have young receivers going into year two of being a pro. The need at WR is for a speed receiver. Even more importantly is a pass catching TE.  I like what I have seen of Harmon.  

[nonniey]

1 hour ago, KDawg said:

Murray was light years ahead of Haskins last year.

 

Not sure if Allen or Darnold are good QBs yet.

Well to be fair,  Haskins was sidelined by the coach through training camp and the first 5 games. Basically he was not prepped by the team to start like Murray was.

[KDawg]

Just now, nonniey said:

Well to be fair,  Haskins was sidelined by the coach through training camp and the first 5 games. Basically he was not prepped by the team to start like Murray was.

 

Agreed completely. I don't think Haskins does well as the backup, either, so I'm not sure he was doing his part, either. But I don't blame either of them more than I blame the front office for selecting Haskins with a lame duck coach at the helm who, for obvious reasons, wouldn't want to put a raw rookie QB in charge of the offense for the sake of his job.

 

Glad that's over. 

[HTTRDynasty]

Nice.  Get him out of Dallas