FrFan Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 14 minutes ago, TommyWilson said: Reality check... Until Dan dies or sells the team, nothing else matters Tanking or not tanking is polishing or not polishing the brass on the Titanic There's your reality check There's a possibility that firing Bruce will be productive but who can say If Dan picks up the GM we're screwed, only the NFL ala Giants in the late 70's would work. 6 minutes ago, BurgundyBooger said: Even if we get the #1 pick, does anyone honestly believe Snyder would resist from making the selection, with all the excitement and media attention that comes with having the 1st overall? If we were talking the 25th pick he probably wouldn't give a **** but a top 5? He's making that call. He already selected his QB last year, I may have memory lapses but I don't remember him meddling in the top 5 picks for any other player than a QB ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildbunny Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 7 minutes ago, FrFan said: He already selected his QB last year, I may have memory lapses but I don't remember him meddling in the top 5 picks for any other player than a QB ? Well, he'll then have the opportunity to get both Tua and Haskins on the roster! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TommyWilson Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 27 minutes ago, FrFan said: If Dan picks up the GM we're screwed, only the NFL ala Giants in the late 70's would work. He already selected his QB last year, I may have memory lapses but I don't remember him meddling in the top 5 picks for any other player than a QB ? I mean there's a mathematical chance that he could get lucky and hire someone competent... That's what I meant when I said it's a possibility that replacing Bruce would be an improvement. It would be a stroke of luck, but any change would be a chance to improve at this point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsmania123 Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 4 hours ago, TommyWilson said: I mean there's a mathematical chance that he could get lucky and hire someone competent... That's what I meant when I said it's a possibility that replacing Bruce would be an improvement. It would be a stroke of luck, but any change would be a chance to improve at this point Unless you think about it from this perspective. People thought when Danny finally fired Vinny Cerrato that things would improve. Probably thinking "change would be a chance to improve "like your thinking. Some of the personnel moves Cerrato made such as: hiring Zorn as OC before he even hired a HC, and then hiring Zorn as HC was completely ignorant. How he handled Champ Bailey. And don't get me wrong I loved Portis and he gave the Skins everything he had and was good. But Cerrato traded away in my opinion, one of the best cornerbacks of all time, all pro, HOFer, and to add insult to injury he threw in a 2nd round pick. Ridiculous. Haynesworth. Do I need to say more? Making DeAngelo Hall at the time the highest paid CB in the league. Ridiculous. Trading for Jason Taylor right after Philip Daniel went down in trading camp, only to release Taylor a year later and he overpaid for the guy. When I look at Vinny's time here they gave away so many 3rd round picks for guys that did not work out I lost count. Jason Campbell - the Skins gave up multiple picks to move up and take him and we know how that turned out. Deion Sanders gave us one year and left with a ton of cash. There is many more blunder moves from an amateur GM but I can't for the life of me remember. Oh yeah Adam Archuleta. It is really about the learning curve of Danny isn't it? Vinny the moron was directed by Dan, who went from thinking well everything is about money. I can buy a SB with guys that other teams were done with and thinking if he overpaid they would be loyalty, only to realize he can't make those types of moves, he can't buy one, and those players do not give a **** they just want to get one more possible big pay day and the Skins are it, etc. So he dumps Vinny and in comes Bruce. And decides to go from overspending to downright insulting players with his undervaluing and low cash deals. Because Dan can't find balance. So the story is even worse then it was with Vinny...LOL! So do I want the Skins to lose? Usually no but this year? Hell yeah! Because they need a haul, that I hope they somehow "luck into" to correct some of their most recent blunders, especially the handling of Trent Williams as their latest debacle. Ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanguard Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 A top draft pic doesn’t guarantee anything. It just gives you hope, that’s all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
profusion Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 The players and coaches are never going to willingly tank. Even the guys on the Dolphins aren't trying to, even if their FO is. It's not impossible that the current Redskins starting lineup really is the worst in the NFL--no need to tank if that's the case. That alone might make tomorrow's game worth watching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volsmet Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 On 10/10/2019 at 8:35 AM, bakedtater1 said: Cons..looking like a chump rooting for your supposedly favorite football team to lose on purpose... On 10/10/2019 at 8:45 AM, bakedtater1 said: Personally I could easily go for seeing the skins go 0-16 four years in a row just to see snyder pissed off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bakedtater1 Posted October 12, 2019 Author Share Posted October 12, 2019 5 minutes ago, volsmet said: I get it I'm confusing..lol.. but I thought summed it up later in the thread in a different post.. I can root for the players and support and cheer on the players that make up the Redskins now but if they lose and continue to lose it's easy for me to take because it's a bigger slap in the face to Snyder lol Coming at ya live from the Rockies!!!..go get em coach bill!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volsmet Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 UFO, confirmed. 👆 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
86 Snyder Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 On 10/10/2019 at 8:35 AM, bakedtater1 said: Let's use this thread to discuss the pros and cons of purposely losing to get a better draft pick. AKA Tanking the season. Pros...there is none..absolutely none. You can try to argue till you're blue in the face but you will lose. Cons..looking like a chump rooting for your supposedly favorite football team to lose on purpose... I see plenty of folks on here say till snyder is out of the picture...well guess what..until hes out of the picture even draft picks are going to be botched...1st overall 10th,5th,3rd...it dont matter where the skins pick...so, seriously take a step back from the ledge and check your self and question your fan hood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KillBill26 Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 There was an interesting article in a recent sports illustrated about tanking and whether it's effective in the NFL. There was a study done a few years back but it was about tanking in the NBA and the results for that there was no improvement over a four year period for the teams that were tanking. Then consider that NFL rosters are about 4 times larger than NBA rosters so an individual makes even less of an impact, and you would think it would be even less effective in the NFL. The study showed success was attributed to nailing the picks you do have (duh), even if they are lower and you have fewer. The warriors, for example, have built a dynasty without any of those guys being a top 5 pick. So not only have the Redskins had a mediocre record in recent years and not had a top pick, they also have a buffoon in Bruce Allen running the show. They really have nothing going for them to turn it around. That's why they are in this predicament. The dolphins are in prime position to turn their franchise around. Not only will they most likely have a top-three pick next year, one of three first rounders, but the number of first and second round picks of the next two drafts is amazing. But that alone means little. It's all about whether or not you have a competent front office to get value out of those selections. The SI article also highlighted about how tanking can destroy your culture in the locker room (also duh). It also mentioned an aspect I hadn't really thought of before, but how you got to feel bad for those linebackers on any tanking team, because with them losing pretty much every game they have a battering ram running back running down hill at them 30 times a game. By December, it's amazing some of these guys can still walk. I hope Holcomb isn't beaten to a pulp by the end of the year. While it's obviously all about getting the best front office structure to get the best value out of our draft picks no matter where we are drafting, for me personally, I'm hoping the Redskins can get a top pick in the upcoming draft. While I want the future of the Redskins to have a positive culture built around some of the young bama boys and Haskins / McLaurin etc, I also wouldn't mind to see the Redskins playing predominantly younger lineups (Haskins aside), to get them experience and gauge whether they can be a player for us. If they lose most or all of those games, so be it. We have a better evaluation of our players and a higher pick. If only we could convince the last guy on earth that doesn't realize Bruce needs to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingdaddy Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 5 hours ago, Vanguard said: A top draft pic doesn’t guarantee anything. It just gives you hope, that’s all. Hope? We haven't been able to use that word since Joe Gibbs came back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KillBill26 Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 3 minutes ago, kingdaddy said: Hope? We haven't been able to use that word since Joe Gibbs came back. Rg3 gave us an ounce of hope for a split second, then all hope was lost once again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clskinsfan Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 11 hours ago, FrFan said: I'd rather start by building the OL, then I would select a QB which won't have to run for his life when on the field. I would also trade Norman, and Trent (a 1st would be a minimum), maybe we can do most of that in one draft assuming we would pick right, but it's still a long shot. Fair strategy. But you dont build the OL with number one overall pick. You pick a QB with that pick. I think the point is mute anyways. This team is horrifyingly bad. But still not as bad as Miami. We will win a couple of games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KillBill26 Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 While tanking has its drawbacks ie negative, losing culture in locker room and disgruntled fanbase, trading any declining player with any trade value has very little downside. Some fans may be pissed to see a kerrigan type walk, but those frustrations are relatively short lived. The Redskins have absolutely nothing to lose, and draft picks to gain, by trading five or so players, but are too stupid to realize it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tibbidoe Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 1 hour ago, KillBill26 said: While tanking has its drawbacks ie negative, losing culture in locker room and disgruntled fanbase, trading any declining player with any trade value has very little downside. Some fans may be pissed to see a kerrigan type walk, but those frustrations are relatively short lived. The Redskins have absolutely nothing to lose, and draft picks to gain, by trading five or so players, but are too stupid to realize it. Absolutely agree. I'd trade Williams, Norman, Kerrigan and Scherff for the best possible deals we can get right now. Reed (IR) will have to retire/be cut in the offseason. I'd listen to offers for any other player, but I'd aggressively try to trade those 4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redskins Reparations Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 Reality? I am reality... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbs Hog Heaven Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 All this talk of tanking had me looking back at a thread I put up back in 2011 wanting the same for Luck/ RGIII. Yeah, THAT went well. It makes interesting reading as to conflicting views then and now- Hail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 1 hour ago, Gibbs Hog Heaven said: All this talk of tanking had me looking back at a thread I put up back in 2011 wanting the same for Luck/ RGIII. Yeah, THAT went well. It makes interesting reading as to conflicting views then and now- Hail. just want to point out how right I was about Landry Jones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
owa Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 Sorry, just not wired that way. I always pull for my teams to win and never want to see them lose. In March Madness, I always pick UNC to win it (I'm a fan) and I always pick the ACC teams to win. Not always logical but can't bring myself to pick against any team I'm pulling for. So, I'm always pulling for the 'skins to win and always expect them to win. Just can't bring myself to pull for other teams. Pro: None Con: get better draft prospect but lose your soul in the process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c slag Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 I actually think the Redskins will rebound a bit from the terrible start and win possibly 5-6 games Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghedrick Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 6 minutes ago, c slag said: I actually think the Redskins will rebound a bit from the terrible start and win possibly 5-6 games I hope not. This will have retard Bruce believing we are close again because we went around .500 with our new coach.Then he'll allege everything was Gruden's fault and if he fired Gruden sooner we would be a playoff team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdlives Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 Daniel Snyder is now 55 years old. He’s owned the franchise for 20+ years. He’s recently traded for McNabb, traded a Herschel Walkers bevy of picks for RGIII only to undermine his head coach because he was pals with RG. Threw Kirk Cousins out, and according to most dictated another QB draft pick. Dwayne Haskins (God bless him cause he ain’t gonna win here) who isn’t ready for prime time. But I guess they’ll have a nice thanksgiving dinner??? Daniel Snyder will never win anything. ergo, neither will we. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CjSuAvE22 Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 1 hour ago, Birdlives said: Daniel Snyder is now 55 years old. He’s owned the franchise for 20+ years. He’s recently traded for McNabb, traded a Herschel Walkers bevy of picks for RGIII only to undermine his head coach because he was pals with RG. Threw Kirk Cousins out, and according to most dictated another QB draft pick. Dwayne Haskins (God bless him cause he ain’t gonna win here) who isn’t ready for prime time. But I guess they’ll have a nice thanksgiving dinner??? Daniel Snyder will never win anything. ergo, neither will we. Dont forget trading for Alex Smith u know that was right up his alley as well, probably was at the game vs the chiefs in 2018 like hmmm i like him bruce go get em...yah he will never win and we wont either took me 20+ years to realize this but nah not getting duped anymore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 3 hours ago, CjSuAvE22 said: Dont forget trading for Alex Smith u know that was right up his alley as well, probably was at the game vs the chiefs in 2018 like hmmm i like him bruce go get em...yah he will never win and we wont either took me 20+ years to realize this but nah not getting duped anymore When you use Alex Smith as your pivotal turning point you’re doing something wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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