Riggo#44 Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 3 minutes ago, KDawg said: What about Josh Allen makes you think he and Haskins are remotely the same...? Now Allen and Trey Lance... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 11 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said: What was Kyle Smith's plan at quarterback then? For that matter, what is this regime's? Kyle Allen? Don't know. At least according to some who knew Jay, they had their eyes on some other QBs in the later rounds, past the first round. Don't know whom. But Kyle likely didn't really have a choice. If the owner wanted Haskins, that's who they had to roll with. As for Kyle's Plan B, don't know. But there were multiple people who said Haskins wasn't his guy. And my point on that if if your key football person wasn't a Haskins guy per se and the HC inherited him, I don't think they are obligated to adopt Haskins. As for what's next, I agree, they need to figure that out. As for Kyle Allen, I am not a big fan based on what i've watched. Will see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJHJR86 Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 2 minutes ago, MartinC said: So the question the organization has to be asking is WHY? And as fans we should be questioning that as well. It's not just 'culture' - Gibbs had 'culture'. So what is it about this team/media/fanbase that results in a QB grave yard? He's the constant link since owning the team. And he's the one who wanted Haskins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Kev Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 Even though I started to sour on Haskins a few games ago, I'm still surprised that he's now third string. This is more than just a benching, this could be the beginning of the end for Haskins. I do like the fact that Rivera has shown that he is the man in charge and has overridden the Snyder pick, but you have to wonder if there's more to the story than just bad QB play. I'll be watching from behind the couch if Allen gets injured and Smith has to run out onto the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philibusters Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 Some posters are approaching the issue of benching Haskins as whether Kyle Allen or Alex Smith can give you better production than Haskins produced in the first 4 games. I think that is the wrong question. Haskins had a disaster game against Cleveland and in general it has not been a great 4 games for him. However this isn't a playoff team with either Allen or Smith either in my opinion and the offensive talent level is pretty low. I think you are better off approaching it from a longer term perspective rather than a short term perspective. From a long term perspective, the question is, whether we can be confident than Haskins is not the franchise QB? I think some people are already confident that he is not, but a lot of people including myself, still want to see more before we make a judgement. I thought he played fairly well at the end of last year. No so much this year, but I want a larger sample size before making a conclusion. If Smith or Allen played well, we are still only talking about a team that is likely 7-9 or something like that so there is no urgency in benching Haskins in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalSkins Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 2 minutes ago, MartinC said: So the question the organization has to be asking is WHY? And as fans we should be questioning that as well. It's not just 'culture' - Gibbs had 'culture'. So what is it about this team/media/fanbase that results in a QB grave yard? Its a numbers game. We haven’t drafted enough QBs high. The ones we did draft we held on to for too long and were gun-shy to try again. You know when a player has “it” fairly early. Sean Taylor. McLaurin, Chase Young. We need to keep drafting but being brutally honest that it might not work out and dump the dude fast. Rosen guys until you get the one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 2 minutes ago, IrepDC said: That will be the narrative regardless when they go through inevitable growing pains. In those moments, we do everything wrong. I believe Josh Allen is a bust here. Lamar Jackson is definitely a bust here. Even Mahomes likely is a bust here. I have not seen this franchise develop QB talent in all my years as a fan. Our culture is trash and that's the most annoying part of cheering for this team. We are self defeating with the loser culture. Yeah man. We change players constantly, and it's always the same result. Fans think the players are the problem and pretty much put blind faith in whatever new coaching staff/FO configuration we're trotting out is right and that they're going to figure out after the next sequence of roster churn. Fans have to do this to keep interest. And then at some point when it's clear the team has just repeated the cycle of dysfunction and isn't going anywhere, they turn on the FO and staff and we start everything over again soon after. I'm tired of this ride. The organization is incompetent, the on-field product is terrible, and the team shows no signs of figuring anything out. I'm not lying to myself to sustain any sort of expectations of competitiveness any more. It's a shame because watching competitive football is quite fun and I have to get that from the late and prime time broadcasts and from watching CFB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fresh8686 Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 People need to remember that one of the first things Ron said when he got here to the players was basically that "if you play in my system and things don't work out, that's on me and I will protect you. If you don't trust and play within the system and make mistakes, that's on you." It's clear to me, with the change in Ron's attitude after reviewing the game and statement's he's made even going back to the Browns game, that Haskins is letting the pressure/circumstances get to the point where it is effecting his ability to trust/run the system. Against the Browns he was too rushed and pressed too hard and lost the game with his processing quality and decision making and against the Ravens he was too tentative and not aggressive enough to make the right choice at the right time in key circumstances, while also lacking in touch and accuracy. To me these are both examples of Haskins failing to trust and properly play within the system. However, it is understandable in some respects why Dwayne is probably not trusting the system, given the glaring fact that we can't protect well enough to fully run all three levels of our offense. But, some of that is also on Dwayne and if that is the case and he is being stubborn in practice and not fully taking responsibility for his errors like his staring down the receiver stuff we saw the week before and during training camp with Thomas Davis, well then there is an obvious problem. I think that stubborn streak Dwayne has, that a lot of really intelligent guys have that trust their intellect, can rub people the wrong way or come up at the wrong times and I can't help but wonder if that has happened in practice. Especially, given the fact that his agent got involved on twitter. It sucks that Dwayne was put in this environment and then had Covid to contend with as well. He was not put in a position to succeed, but really he should have stayed in school another year. I think that early success made him over-confident in his ability to make the next step and he didn't understand how much of a support structure one needs to do so, especially as a pocket passing QB whose best trait is exploiting the leverage that offensive weapons create when stressing the defense. The situation he is in here, makes it very hard for his best traits to consistently shine and the state of the organization makes it even harder for him to handle his development curve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANONYMOUS SOURCE. Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 Something else besides/ in addition to his game play I’d bet, in past it would have been leaked already maybe that’s the confusion lol. Maybe Ron’s plan was to give each QB a set number of games and see where to go from here who knows. Personally I don’t care who the QB is just win more than you lose Occasionally and keep Dan on the boat as much as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJHJR86 Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 2 minutes ago, philibusters said: If Smith or Allen played well, we are still only talking about a team that is likely 7-9 or something like that so there is no urgency in benching Haskins in my opinion. You cannot have 16 games to solely develop one player. There are other guys on offense. I have no doubt there were murmurs in the locker room over this and that's why Ron acted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 The Kyle Allen run might be simply this A. They don't think Haskins has got it B. They aren't sure if Kyle has it either but want to give it a shot C. Maybe they think this will spark Haskins, tough love, if he comes back and plays later Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redskins Reparations Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 There goes our tank commander... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJHJR86 Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said: The Kyle Allen run might be simply this A. They don't think Haskins has got it B. They aren't sure if Kyle has it either but want to give it a shot C. Maybe they think this will spark Haskins, tough love, if he comes back and plays later I don't think it's C. No way can they go back to him now. I think there's another option: potentially losing the locker room without a switch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinC Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 2 minutes ago, SoCalSkins said: Its a numbers game. We haven’t drafted enough QBs high. The ones we did draft we held on to for too long and were gun-shy to try again. You know when a player has “it” fairly early. Sean Taylor. McLaurin, Chase Young. We need to keep drafting but being brutally honest that it might not work out and dump the dude fast. Rosen guys until you get the one. Heath Shuler, Pat Ramsey, Jason Campbell, RGIII, Dwayne Haskins. All first round busts. It’s about more than the player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradeTheBeal! Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 Vegas line moved from Rams -10 to Rams -7. That’s fairly significant...and revealing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sacks 'n' Stuff Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 Dan Snyder will never learn to keep his little fingers out of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 7 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said: Don't know. At least according to some who knew Jay, they had their eyes on some other QBs in the later rounds, past the first round. Don't know whom. But Kyle likely didn't really have a choice. If the owner wanted Haskins, that's who they had to roll with. As for Kyle's Plan B, don't know. But there were multiple people who said Haskins wasn't his guy. And my point on that if if your key football person wasn't a Haskins guy per se and the HC inherited him, I don't think they are obligated to adopt Haskins. As for what's next, I agree, they need to figure that out. As for Kyle Allen, I am not a big fan based on what i've watched. Will see. The one thing you absolutely can not do as a team builder is build without a good plan at QB. It is the foundation upon which your entire build rests. Punting on the position year after year until you get something you like is not an option. The plan pretty much needs to be implemented your first offseason in charge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJHJR86 Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 The Cardinals got it right when they did this with Rosen, as well as the Bills with EJ Manuel...I think we'll be okay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo#44 Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 4 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said: The Kyle Allen run might be simply this A. They don't think Haskins has got it B. They aren't sure if Kyle has it either but want to give it a shot C. Maybe they think this will spark Haskins, tough love, if he comes back and plays later D. They limited the offense for Haskins and he's affecting the development/evaluation of other players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringMetheHeadofBruceAllen Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 25 minutes ago, MartinC said: If that IS the thinking it’s deeply flawed thinking IMO. The objective should be building and evaluating the roster to build a team that can compete for championships down the road - probably in 2022 at the earliest. Not seeing if we can scrape 8 wins this year to win a weak division and then lose a playoff game. If winning right now was the objective we should have signed Cam. Big part of this year was evaluating Haskins. Now it was clearly trending the wrong way, he had not taken a step from the promise he showed his last two games of last season. Part of which is being in a new system. I don’t think 4 games was enough personally based just on what we saw in the field. There must be more happening inside meeting rooms and the practice field for this switch to happen so quickly. Wrong decision IMO based on what we know. There has to be more we don’t. I hope I am proven wrong but I really don’t see Allen as a long term solution. Then we should have signed Cam and let Haskins sit and watch. It's win now in the NFL or you're out. The Texans canned their coach after four division titles. You also have to consider how the other guys on the team feel...I can't imagine that the other 52 players would be 'fine' if the coach told them they were just 'evaluating' this year and didn't care if they had a losing record. This goes against their competitive instinct, and they know it could effect their future paychecks as well when they are free agents ("Well, what did you do in that 2020 WFT/WTF year? You guys sucked, so we're not going to give you the money you want.") It's one thing, on the other hand, to 'tank' when you have no realistic shot of making the playoffs, however. I think most players would understand that, and with this team .5 games out of first place in a bad division, I don't blame Ron. Yes it could be Ron's shot across Snyder's bow. Remember Ron gave Haskins a pop quiz before the Ravens game, which he flunked. Doesn't look good, and I wouldn't be surprised if more behind-the-scenes details come out. Haskins strikes me as being very entitled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalSkins Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 Just now, MartinC said: Heath Shuler, Pat Ramsey, Jason Campbell, RGIII, Dwayne Haskins. All first round busts. It’s about more than the player. If that’s the case those guys would have had success elsewhere afterward in my opinion. We drafted fairly crappy prospects in retrospect. RG3 is the mind boggling one to me. Maybe that dude could have made it in the right situation or if he didn’t get hurt. He definitely had “it” then it evaporated like his ACL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fresh8686 Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inigo Montoya Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 2 minutes ago, TryTheBeal! said: Vegas line moved from Rams -10 to Rams -7. That’s fairly significant...and revealing. It’s been moving since Sunday, was +8 yesterday before this, but it has moved -1 1/2 points since this. the Rams didn’t look great Sunday against a really bad giants team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo#44 Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 3 minutes ago, MartinC said: Heath Shuler, Pat Ramsey, Jason Campbell, RGIII, Dwayne Haskins. All first round busts. It’s about more than the player. Other than Shuler, the common thread... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANONYMOUS SOURCE. Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 Well Dan might be actually be ok with the switch, he’s at least got an Allen back running something around here. 😄 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.