FAREWELL to the NFL Dwayne Haskins QB Ohio State

[Warhead36]

I just don't buy the "he isn't ready" non sense. Look around the league, there are rookies and late round/UDFA types coming in and not looking like complete garbage. You're telling me Haskins is not just worse than them but WAAAY worse? Sorry, I call BS.

 

We're just inept in the coaching and player development aspects. We'd rather trot a "steady vet" like Keenum out there because it takes less work and its the easy route, even after he's putting up sub 100 yard passing games.

[SoCalSkins]

1 minute ago, volsmet said:

I would still like to trade for Rosen, perhaps now it’d only take a 4th, but we just saw him look like a shell shocked youngster v our mighty front. Poorly constructed rosters make QBs look awful ... Keenum isn’t awful, but he looks it with us while Bridgewater, Kyle Allen, & other guys look solid on teams that do things far better than we do. It’s hilarious to consider how bad Bridgewater & Kyle Allen would look here.

 

i went to UCLA and have and always liked Rosen. I’m surprised the way it panned out for him. He ran a pro style system his last 2 years. 

[Alexa]

1 hour ago, volsmet said:

Pitt obliterating SD, in SD, with their 4th string QB, tells you something about their organization. 
 

Washington needing Miami to blow a 2 point conversion, to get our only win of the year, with our starting QB, tells you something about our organization. 
 

You can rationally glean nothing about DH from it.

 

Oh yes I can. Two different coaches have decided not  to play him over two QB's that aren't any good. 

[JSSkinz]

1 hour ago, skins4ever28 said:

when theres nothing to look forward to with our team, the thought of a rookie qb would give us some type of excitement, and hope. 

No, this is not the thought at all.  It's about getting him experience and evaluating where he is as a QB.

 

None of the QB's picked in the last 2 drafts are doing anything exciting so who cares, let him make some mistakes and take some sacks but while he's doing it hopefully he's learning along the way.

 

He's not a turkey, you can't just stick him in the oven and wait for the red thing to pop out and now you know he's ready.

[volsmet]

1 minute ago, Alexa said:

Oh yes I can. Two different coaches have decided not  to play him over two QB's that aren't any good. 

But the Steelers didn’t decide to play their backups, they were forced to. 

2 minutes ago, JSSkinz said:

 

He's not a turkey, you can't just stick him in the oven and wait for the red thing to pop out and now you know he's ready.

I saw that you disapprove of the ES gifs, but this one practically posts itself. 

[Skinsinparadise]

I am not a Daniel Jones guy but I have no issue with the Giants playing him. As Shurmur said it’s a learning experience for him. Darnold among others looked rough at times last year but he looked great last week against Dallas.  

 

Growing pains and rookies go hand in hand.  I am ok with waiting until the bye week to play Haskins. But if they don’t at some point play him consider me in the group that see it as a red flag.

 

I don’t love all the narratives I hear about Haskins from the people who cover the team. But I am patient and not panicking yet about it.

 

I stayed at the same hotel that the team did this weekend, the one and only player I ran into was Haskins. He had a few fans around him at the time, he chatted for a sec with my son. I’ve seen Haskins in settings like that now a number of times, and he comes off as a super nice guy, cool dude in those settings.

 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

8 minutes ago, JSSkinz said:

Yes, and why is that?  

 

Is Dan now understanding that he overdrafted Haskins and now he's worried that the fans will have nothing left to hope for next season after watching Haskins play this season? 

 

Dan doesn't understand talent development so it's hard for me to believe he's coming at it from that angle.  If he doesnt play Haskins this year my impression would be that he's trying to hide him not help him.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not condoning Dan Snyder dictating how the quarterback or any position is handled.  I just think there is more at play than what either of the coaches have led on.  The narrative of the offseason was that the FO wanted to take things slow, they had "learned from prior mistakes", and all that jazz.  Add into that the guys Danny pays to be his buddies - Portis, Moss, Theismann - are all telling him that Dwayne needs time to develop.

[Sonny9TD]

11 minutes ago, Llevron said:

I hope by not ready they mean we don’t want to do to him what the Giants are doing to jones. 

 

He will be worth the pick if they get him ready rather it’s this season or next doesn’t really matter if he live up to his potential 

 

Never worth the pick. Dream state. A silly owner meddling is what it is.

[volsmet]

3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I am not a Daniel Jones guy but I have no issue with the Giants playing him. As Shurmur said it’s a learning experience for him. Darnold among others looked rough at times last year but he looked great last week against Dallas.  

 

Growing pains and rookies go hand in hand.  I am ok with waiting until the bye week to play Haskins. But if they don’t at some point play him consider me in the group that see it as a red flag.

 

I don’t love all the narratives I hear about Haskins from the people who cover the team. But I am patient and not panicking yet about it.

 

I stayed at the same hotel that the team did this weekend, the one and only player I ran into was Haskins. He had a few fans around him at the time, he chatted for a sec with my son. I’ve seen Haskins in settings like that now a number of times, and he comes off as a super nice guy, cool dude in those settings.

 

Mayfield was the clear cut best of the 2018 class until it was Kyle Allen who has since been replaced by Sam Darnold. Daniel Jones was the next Peyton Manning, now he’s the current Eli Manning. Matt Ryan was a top 5 QB, until he was a bottom 5 QB. 🤨

 

These guys tend to play about as well as the guys (coaches included) around them allow. Pay QBs nothing until you find your Watson/Mahomes. Imo. 

[max21]

18 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I am not a Daniel Jones guy but I have no issue with the Giants playing him. As Shurmur said it’s a learning experience for him. Darnold among others looked rough at times last year but he looked great last week against Dallas.  

 

Growing pains and rookies go hand in hand.  I am ok with waiting until the bye week to play Haskins. But if they don’t at some point play him consider me in the group that see it as a red flag.

 

I don’t love all the narratives I hear about Haskins from the people who cover the team. But I am patient and not panicking yet about it.

 

I stayed at the same hotel that the team did this weekend, the one and only player I ran into was Haskins. He had a few fans around him at the time, he chatted for a sec with my son. I’ve seen Haskins in settings like that now a number of times, and he comes off as a super nice guy, cool dude in those settings.

 

The team stays in hotels during home games? 

[Skinsinparadise]

4 minutes ago, volsmet said:

Mayfield was the clear cut best of the 2018 class until it was Kyle Allen who has since been replaced by Sam Darnold. Daniel Jones was the next Peyton Manning, now he’s the current Eli Manning. Matt Ryan was a top 5 QB, until he was a bottom 5 QB. 🤨

 

These guys tend to play about as well as the guys (coaches included) around them allow. Pay QBs nothing until you find your Watson/Mahomes. Imo. 

 

You are certainly consistent on the point about only paying elite QBs top money.

 

The market now seems to be entering the 30-40 million range, so it’s getting crazy. But not sure GMs are willing to enter qb wasteland territory because it’s not always a fun ride.

 

But agree that if you are loaded with talent you can potentially get away with a rookie or cheap Qb.  

 

Teams like Baltimore always seem to build good supporting casts. Teams like the Redskins not so much.  But if they end up with a top 3 pick and trade Trent we might finally get there,

2 minutes ago, max21 said:

The team stays in hotels during home games? 

Yep

[volsmet]

7 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

You are certainly consistent on the point about only paying elite QBs top money.

 

The market now seems to be entering the 30-40 million range, so it’s getting crazy. But not sure GMs are willing to enter qb wasteland territory because it’s not always a fun ride.

 

But agree that if you are loaded with talent you can potentially get away with a rookie or cheap Qb.  

 

Teams like Baltimore always seem to build good supporting casts. Teams like the Redskins not so much.  But if they end up with a top 3 pick and trade Trent we might finally get there,

Yep

Pay guys who can win their one on ones and your QB will be fine no matter who it is. It’s seen consistently, these guys are relatively replaceable, look at New Orleans, draft Erik Mccoy to secure the middle of the line, build your defense on each level, and who cares what Drew Brees is doing... they’d have a better shot at winning the SB if that Drew Brees money went to other pieces of the roster.
 

$36 million for a Dak? 
 

 

[DJHJR86]

36 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

I just don't buy the "he isn't ready" non sense. Look around the league, there are rookies and late round/UDFA types coming in and not looking like complete garbage. You're telling me Haskins is not just worse than them but WAAAY worse? Sorry, I call BS.

 

We're just inept in the coaching and player development aspects. We'd rather trot a "steady vet" like Keenum out there because it takes less work and its the easy route, even after he's putting up sub 100 yard passing games.

 

Why would 2 coaches, one fighting for his job and the other one auditioning for one, both lie publicly and not play him or even attempt to develop him?  The easy route would have been to play Haskins and take the lumps with a rookie, and then the record would be somewhat justifiable.  

 

Either the entire Skins coaching staff is inept (possible, but unlikely) or Dan Snyder screwed up yet again and overdrafted Haskins.  

[volsmet]

12 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

Why would 2 coaches, one fighting for his job and the other one auditioning for one, both lie publicly and not play him or even attempt to develop him?  The easy route would have been to play Haskins and take the lumps with a rookie, and then the record would be somewhat justifiable.  

 

Either the entire Skins coaching staff is inept (possible, but unlikely) or Dan Snyder screwed up yet again and overdrafted Haskins.  

No nfl coach thinks rookie QBs are ready. Ever.

[Xameil]

31 minutes ago, max21 said:

The team stays in hotels during home games? 

Yes they do

[Skinsinparadise]

33 minutes ago, volsmet said:

Pay guys who can win their one on ones and your QB will be fine no matter who it is. It’s seen consistently, these guys are relatively replaceable, look at New Orleans, draft Erik Mccoy to secure the middle of the line, build your defense on each level, and who cares what Drew Brees is doing... they’d have a better shot at winning the SB if that Drew Brees money went to other pieces of the roster.
 

$36 million for a Dak? 
 

 

 

I think though some teams like NO think their window is short so will leverage their salary cap and draft approach accordingly. Though eventually you got to pay the piper.

 

Also would Bridgewater for example outduel better Qbs in the playoffs?

 

its sort of like the school of thought about starting pitching in baseball, it means a lot more to have an ace in the postseason. 

 

Not saying I disagree with your point but am saying guys who are borderline elite like Brees might be especially valuable in the post season.

 

The Chiefs had a strong roster in the Alex Smith years but couldn’t win a lick with him in the post season. And I gather that helps make your point in that they wanted to lessen his cap number and upgrade at the spot.

[NoCalMike]

I think the NYG are an interesting contrast.  Eli Manning may be done as an elite level QB, but no one can say honestly he would be doing as bad as Daniel Jones is.  It might not matter in terms of wins/losses because the Giants aren't a good team regardless of QB, but Daniel Jones has been pretty bad after the media once again uber-praised a rookie QB way too soon.  The guy has looked bad flat out, a turnover machine.  Eli very well might be looking mediocre with the team, but Jones has looked bad yet their front office doesn't care.  They recognize the situation.

 

With Washington same situation almost, except the combination of Case & Colt have done absolutely nothing in the NFL to earn anything (Case, 1 good season) yet we keep hearing Haskins isn't ready.  If they mean he isn't ready to win games, then I think we all agree, but at this point the team isn't winning games anyway.

[volsmet]

3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I think though some teams like NO think their window is short so will leverage their salary cap and draft approach accordingly. Though eventually you got to pay the piper.

 

Also would Bridgewater for example outduel better Qbs in the playoffs?

 

its sort of like the school of thought about starting pitching in baseball, it means a lot more to have an ace in the postseason. 

 

Not saying I disagree with your point but am saying guys who are borderline elite like Brees might be especially valuable in the post season.

 

The Chiefs had a strong roster in the Alex Smith years but couldn’t win a lick with him in the post season. And I gather that helps make your point in that they wanted to lessen his cap number and upgrade at the spot.

Brees lost to Keenum in the playoffs, Brees isn’t that much better than the next guy, he’s not making that much of a difference. Same with Luck & Indi, put that Luck money on the roster & the team is better with Jacoby than with Luck. Play makers win playoff games, not pocket passing. Peyton was dead when he won, last years SB had about 8 first downs, you just can’t lose the game for your team. These QBs aren’t making up for deficiencies unless they’re making plays that the X’s & O’s can’t account for. We’re talking about 30 million in cap space, per year, between a starter and a backup... that’s insane. People overrate the position and underrate how many guys can play it effectively. Imo. Creating 7 holes on your 53 man roster to get Luck instead of Brissett is a mistake every time. Imo. 
 

All of the QBs making big money were terrible mistakes made by the FO, imo. Baltimore has a more complete roster than the highly paid Wilson does & Baltimore went up there and beat Seattle up. The money for QBs has gone too far, Elway continues to pay replaceable guys and all he needed to do was address the Oline. Protected QBs win. Teams who can run the ball win. Scheme wins. Teams that win can lose their QB & still win... but Dallas loses a couple OL & they lose, until the OL returns, and they win again. 

 

[KDawg]

The game is changing in many ways. Not just from a X and O's point of view, but in how teams are built and managed. 

 

The current salary cap is $188.2M.

 

Matt Stafford currently accounts for 15% of the Lions cap.

 

Cousins = 15% of Vikings Cap

 

Rodgers = 14%

 

Wilson = 13.9%

 

Brees = 12%

 

Carr = 11.9%

 

Alex Smith = 10.8%

 

There are more, but those are just some on the high end.

 

Now, compare that to these guys on rookie deals: 

 

Mahomes = 2.3%

 

Watson = 2%

 

Wentz = 4.4%

 

Brissett = 4.5%

 

Even Tom Brady = 11.4%.

 

These quarterback contracts are astronomical. And the amount of cap money spent on some of these guys is absolutely absurd. 

 

To put it in context, 1% of your cap is obviously 1.882M

 

The amount of total cap spent on quarterbacks is astronomical.

 

If you find a guy that is a long term answer that ticks all the boxes (healthy, leader, buy-in, hard worker, good skill set) - he is likely worth his weight in gold. But the current guy, who is a contender for greatest of all time, only accounts for 11.4% of his team's cap. Stafford accounts for 15% of his. It's surreal how much these guys are paid.

 

And that's not a knock on Stafford... or Carr... or Cousins. Or any of them. But I think the days of paying a quarterback just to pay them are over given how much of the cap these guys account for. So unless they do a separate QB cap moving forward, I'd expect the pay days to start dropping as team's can't afford to take on these contracts. Mahomes is likely to be north of 30M/year when he signs. That's ridiculous. 

 

If that guy is healthy, you're likely golden. But if they go down? Now what? Your entire 53-man roster operates on 85% of the potential cap. And that's not counting any dead money figures in, etc. You're handicapping yourselves.

 

I love me some Alex Smith. But that guy is accounting for 10.8% of the cap. The Skins are operating on 89.2% of the cap they could possibly operate on with a guy who's career may be over.

 

I think it may happen soon where team's start doing the rookie contract and out quarterback methodology. And I'm not sure if that's a good idea or not. Could be. Might be a mistake. But I know paying guys north of 30M/season is a giant mistake. 

 

Get a guy,play him for 5 years, contract becomes too high, sign a journeyman for cheaper as the market rate drops until you can find a new rookie and rinse and repeat. 

 

@volsmet - Tagging you because you seem to enjoy these kinds of discussions.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[JSSkinz]

3 hours ago, Rex Tomb said:

Looks like Danny "Dimes" may be coming back to earth after an incredibly hot start over a putrid Buccaneers team and us (also putrid).  

18 sacks, 6 fumbles, and 7 interceptions.

 

 

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

Danny Deuces has **** the bed.  I would enjoy it more if our house didn’t smell so bad.

[NoCalMike]

We are talking true franchise QB's versus the next tier down.

(In no particular order)

1. Rodgers

2. Rothelisburger (not anymore, maybe?)

3. Brady

4. Brees

5. Rivers....sometimes?

 

Who am I missing? 

 

Outside of those 5 QB's, and even Rivers might be questionable for this particular list, no one should be making 100 million. I don't even care how it breaks down by season.  I do agree the market for the position is just out of control but it is driven by so much more than actual performance.  I think in a lot of cases if the team drafts a QB who settles nicely into the Tier 2 level, then the front office is desperately afraid that if they don't keep them around, they aren't going to necessarily find anything better right away.  This is where I think a QB such as Russell Wilson ends up paid so much.  Dude is good, his play-making ability to pull something out of nothing likely notches him up to very good, but he is making the kind of salary only the elite probably should. 

[MartinC]

Let's assume Haskins really is not ready to play. Why then is he the backup over McCoy? 

 

I mean he's one snap away from having to play as the backup. 

 

Whatever if the offense comes out again flat against the Vikings and we struggle badly against a very good Bills defense - that's it. You have to take Haskins out of the wrapper after the bye. He may not be totally ready but we have to see how he develops playing actual games and getting all the snaps in practice. 

[volsmet]

I’m all for drafting, developing & trading young QBs. When their value is highest, he’s out the door, mid season or any other time, I’m cashing in that ticket & letting my backup do the exact same thing my team allowed my starting QB to do. Where is the giant drop off when Brady, Wentz, Luck, Brees, Cam get hurt in the middle of the year? There’s certainly no $30 million dollar drop off, ever. Matt Cassell might have 8 mvps if Brady hadn’t returned. These teams win consistently with a large % of their cap sitting on the bench in the form of injured overpaid QB. 
 

Hit the passer, protect the passer, and you’ve found the great equalizers. 
 

[Stormy]

Just now, MartinC said:

Let's assume Haskins really is not ready to play. Why then is he the backup over McCoy? 

 

I mean he's one snap away from having to play as the backup. 

 

Whatever if the offense comes out again flat against the Vikings and we struggle badly against a very good Bills defense - that's it. You have to take Haskins out of the wrapper after the bye. He may not be totally ready but we have to see how he develops playing actual games and getting all the snaps in practice. 

Agreed on all fronts. At this point, my hope is that they use the bye week to prep him to start in week 11. Ideally, he’d get 7 starts from that point forward, for a team likely to be 1-8 when he takes over. Extra week of preparation, no starting for the first time on a short week, or on the road against a playoff caliber team. It’s ideal for him, and the team, and gives us plenty of time to evaluate his progress, against a representative schedule, before 2020. 
 

If he’s not starting week 11, there better be a great reason why not!