Press Release: #REDSKINS RELIEVE JAY GRUDEN OF DUTIES

[goskins10]

13 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Dan also fired Vinny again  because he hired Zorn, and there was nobody at the KC game, and Dan realized he had up do something.

 

As I said above marty first fired Vinnie not dan.  In fact it was a big part of why Dan fired Marty.  The only time Dan fired Vinnie was when he hired Zorn.  

13 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Dan also fired Vinny again  because he hired Zorn, and there was nobody at the KC game, and Dan realized he had up do something.

I think this might be semantics. The fact is that Marty wanted somebody else, and Dan chose Marty over Vinny. 

 

Sorry not semantics at all.  Marty fired Vinnie without telling dan which infuriated him. He let it go at first then rehired vinnie and fired Marty.  

[FrFan]

Firing your HC at 5:00 AM ! BA is a miserable, disrespectful, obnoxious parasite.

[Boss_Hogg]

Jay is already back home in Florida with family. 

 

Jay has been all class during these series of events. I hope he gets some time to rest and finds a new coordinator job in 2020. He deserves to work for a competent pro franchise. 

 

Thanks Jay

[mistertim]

I'm really curious what would happen if Dan were forced to choose between the coach he really wanted and Bruce. I could definitely see some coaches who would be in high demand refusing to take the job unless Bruce is gone. 

 

BTW, apparently there's some reporting out there that Lincoln Riley wouldn't want to be with the Skins even if he ends up being interested in an NFL HC position. No surprise...who the **** wants to work for Bruce and Dan? This is a **** show. We're going to end up with some awful retread yes man who just wants a fat paycheck. The fish rots from the head down. 

[88Comrade2000]

6 hours ago, Burgold said:

If history is a guide (and can repeat itself) Dan fired Vinny the first time because the coach he really wanted (Marty) demanded it as a condition of his hiring. If Snyder really wants a coach that might spell the end of Allen's tenure. 

Only if Dan really wants that coach.   Any coach interviewing for the job; should make that a condition.

My guess, Dan picks Bruce.  SO, I expect another loser coach; who will be fired in 2-3 years.  Actually, Dan 

will probably just let Bruce do the hiring.

[Burgold]

1 minute ago, Rdskns2000 said:

Only if Dan really wants that coach.   Any coach interviewing for the job; should make that a condition.

 

I agree. As to who Dan picks he is a man who seems to develop crushes and is more excited by the new than the old. So, he approaches a star-prospect coach who makes him a bit giddy then I can see him  leaving Bruce overboard.

 

That might be our best short term hope. The only other one is that Dan takes a serious look at the last ten years and realizes that they are not close and that too many things are not working. I suspect some of his co-owners and colleagues have whispered something to this effect already so I don't hold high hopes for that. Still, Bruce's record is worse than Jay's and if Jay deserved to be fired Bruce does, too.

[Voice_of_Reason]

3 hours ago, goskins10 said:

 

As I said above marty first fired Vinnie not dan.  In fact it was a big part of why Dan fired Marty.  The only time Dan fired Vinnie was when he hired Zorn.  

 

Sorry not semantics at all.  Marry fired Bonnie without telling dan which infuriated him. He let it go at first then rehired vinnie and fired Marty.  

I didn't realize Marty fired Vinnie without telling him.  I always kindof assumed that Dan knew Marty was going to whack Vinnie immediately and it was previously discussed.

 

If I got that wrong, then yeah, I'm totally wrong about that.  

[Burgold]

2 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I didn't realize Marty fired Vinnie without telling him.  I always kindof assumed that Dan knew Marty was going to whack Vinnie immediately and it was previously discussed.

 

If I got that wrong, then yeah, I'm totally wrong about that.  

Yeah, I missed that part, too. My recollection was Marty basically said, "I can work for you, but not if that guy's here." Dan reluctantly let Vinny go to appease his new star coach and then after the player revolt and disenfranchisement of Darrell Green and B Mitchell that led to a terrible start before righting itself to a .500 season decided, "This isn't enough fun and we're not winning." Given that, he fired Marty and re-hired Vinny and threw the dice on Spurrier.

[Voice_of_Reason]

39 minutes ago, mistertim said:

I'm really curious what would happen if Dan were forced to choose between the coach he really wanted and Bruce. I could definitely see some coaches who would be in high demand refusing to take the job unless Bruce is gone. 

 

BTW, apparently there's some reporting out there that Lincoln Riley wouldn't want to be with the Skins even if he ends up being interested in an NFL HC position. No surprise...who the **** wants to work for Bruce and Dan? This is a **** show. We're going to end up with some awful retread yes man who just wants a fat paycheck. The fish rots from the head down. 

The thing is, any HC worth their salt is going to do SOME research.  And by research, I mean maybe watch sports center.  And they're going to see that there is no fan base left, and it's a complete rebuild project not only of the football side but also the fan base.

 

If I was approached with that scenario, i would absolutely demand that I had to be in control of everything.  Period. It almost wouldn't matter who was currently in the power structure, if you're going to ask me to rebuild everything for a fan base that doesn't support the team anymore and basically coach 16 away games, and for at least a while bring a knife to a gun fight, then I'm going to say I need to control everything, or else it's not doable.

 

I could see some really large ego coaches being willing to take that on.  People who think they can fix anything.  But they will demand a HUGE amount of money, and all the authority.

 

Quite frankly, while it's not an ideal way to build a franchise, I think it's the absolute best we can hope for.  Dan won't fire Bruce.  No good coach is going to come to this situation unless they are given the opportunity of a lifetime.  The opportunity is control.

 

That's about the only thing Dan has to sell.  

[Stadium-Armory]

From Dan's perspective, keeping Bruce is a sign of stability. A sign that he's not an interventionist or prone to knee-jerk decisions.

 

A stable organization, with great culture.

[Burgold]

If we set our sights on a defensive minded head coach I think we have some interesting players. Allen, Payne, Ionadis backed up by Settle is pretty darn good. Kerrigan’s long in the tooth, but under a better defensive system who knows who he could become. 

 

That’s how I’d pitch the team anyway. 

[WelshSkinsFan]

23 hours ago, sempre_victrix said:

 

He will probably have some incentive, the first overall pick in the draft.

 

Yes but Bruce Allen will be the man making that pick 🤮

[Peregrine]

39 minutes ago, Burgold said:

If we set our sights on a defensive minded head coach I think we have some interesting players. Allen, Payne, Ionadis backed up by Settle is pretty darn good. Kerrigan’s long in the tooth, but under a better defensive system who knows who he could become. 

 

That’s how I’d pitch the team anyway. 

Its interesting to note that in the past 30 years, we have had 2 years of defensive minded head coach.  We have always chosen an offensive minded HC, and it really hasnt worked for us.

[mistertim]

2 hours ago, Burgold said:

If we set our sights on a defensive minded head coach I think we have some interesting players. Allen, Payne, Ionadis backed up by Settle is pretty darn good. Kerrigan’s long in the tooth, but under a better defensive system who knows who he could become. 

 

That’s how I’d pitch the team anyway. 

 

I dunno. I'd love to actually have an offense again that isn't ludicrously predictable and conservative. Haskins is a bit of a gunslinger and has a huge arm; I'd like to bring in someone who knows how to design an offense around him. But then again, that doesn't necessarily need to be a HC. You can have a defensive minded HC who hires a really good OC. 

 

But I do agree that on the defensive side, on paper, we definitely have some good talent. Unfortunately we have a weak ass DC who doesn't know how to use it well. 

[Thinking Skins]

14 hours ago, Rdskns2000 said:

Sure, it could happen but Dan isn't changing his stripes.   We could get lucky and go on a winning streak and ride it all the way to a Superbowl.  It would be a fluke season, if that happens.  Dan Snyder will never field a consistent winning team.

 

I am just amazed of just how stupid he is.  He so easily believes the crap that Brucifer is telling him. Doesn't Dan realize; he is losing a generation of fans.  Once we older fans, who remember the Gibbs glory years die off; who is Dan going to have? He stupidly believes a new stadium will solve everything.  No it won't.   Instead of crap at FEdex, it will be crap in a shiney new stadium.   He thinks that will be his legacy?  Building a new stadium?  No, his legacy will be taking a beloved franchise and destroying it.  The Skins are completely irrelevant in a town; where they used to be king.  

 

Guarantee you, Bruce is here next year and the fanbase will dwindle to nothing.   When Brucifer is then fired in 2-3 years; there won't be much a fanbase left.   It's going to take the Skins probably making the playoffs 3 straight years to recover some of the fanbase.  As some have mention here before, it's doudtful the Skins every recapture the fandom during the 80's glory years.

 

Snyder has been an owner for 21 years.  He's seen what the successful teams do. Why doesn't he want to emulate those teams?  Doesn't he realize; he will be the toast of the town; if the Skins were a consistent playoff team.  The occasional Superbowl birth say every 4-6 years?

 

I don't think we are anywhere near rock bottom.  I was watching some discussions on the potential replacements and I was laughing.  Urban Meyer, Mike Tomlin, Lincoln Riley, Eric Bieniemy, Josh McDaniels, Mike Mccarthy, Jim Harbaugh, Bill Cowher, Tony Dungy, Jason Garrett, Mike Pettine, Wade Phillips, Greg Williams, etc..

 

Maybe the last 3 would consider it if offered.  I don't see any quality coach coming here with Bruce still on the team.  So, I fully expect a Jim Zorn type hire and in 2-3 years; we are here again.

 

As true as this is, you have to play the game. Its the same game other franchizes go through. Its a game of what if. Like what if Gibbs had drafted Rodgers over Rogers (the year we drafted Campbell). What if we had drafted Wilson over RG3. What if we had brought in Breez over Brunell. Its not like these are impossible choices, they're things that were considered at the time. What if we had named McVay the choice and fired Gruden? 

 

We're stuck with Snyder for the time being. We've got Bruce for as long as it takes to get rid of him. But I refuse to believe that they're this impenetrable force of evil. We haven't won in a long time. We're the Cubs of the NFL. We're the new version of the Bengals, or the Saints, or the Lions, or the Browns, or a number of other teams who were in similar situations and couldn't seem to get out of them until they did. The Lions and Browns went 0-16 recently. But the Lions turned it around (somewhat) with the drafting of Stafford. But even he didn't take them to any type of glory, just out of the pits. And right now we're in the pits but for the last 5 years or so its been the middle of the pack, set of forgotten teams who could take the next step or fall apart. We fell apart. 

 

The question is can we find that next gem? We thought it was RG3 and he got hurt. We thought it was Cousins and he left. We think it could be Haskins and we'll see. We'll get somebody to coem in here and coach. Will it be a hotshot like McVay and his peers? Who knows? will it be another dud like Zorn? Who knows. What gives me ?optimism? is the fact that whoever we hire will be human and its almost impossible to predict human behavior. Remember the Bill Belichick coaching tree. How has that turned out? Every year the "experts" name 5-10 hot shot candidates who are supposed to be top of the line and 5 years later we see most of them twiddling there thumbs again. SO its hard to find a coach. And what we see is that for the most part outside of a NE, Pitt, GB, SD, PHi, and a few others you see teams just doing the same rotations of coaches because its hard to win in this league. How many coaches have the Titans had since Fischer? And how good was Fischer? Are we calling them a model franchise? Are we talking about them and their owner / front office as badly as we are this FO? 

 

I don't think this is any curse of the bambino type thing going on. I think its just a luck of the draw. It would be better if we had better people picking our lottery numbers, but its still basically a lottery in so many ways. I think if we had better structure and some other things we could get more say value picks or develop more lower players and UDFAS and find better FAs, but we're not doing horribly in those departments. The horrible part where we are is in the playmakers or the all pro talent. And every year out of about 250 - 500 possible new players that come into the league, I'd bet that 10, maybe 25 are that level of a player. So if we can get one - who stays healthy, it takes extreme luck. 

And I think thats a far more important thing on success than the coach. If we can just get somebody who we know is a hard worker, it goes a long way. Everything else is just a roll of the die. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

16 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

I dunno. I'd love to actually have an offense again that isn't ludicrously predictable and conservative. Haskins is a bit of a gunslinger and has a huge arm; I'd like to bring in someone who knows how to design an offense around him. But then again, that doesn't necessarily need to be a HC. You can have a defensive minded HC who hires a really good OC. 

 

But I do agree that on the defensive side, on paper, we definitely have some good talent. Unfortunately we have a weak ass DC who doesn't know how to use it well. 

But there's no reason to have that person as a HC.  

 

I actually prefer the setup where the HC coaches the team, sets the direction, but has really good offensive and defensive coordinators. There just aren't that many examples of HCs being the defacto OC/DC as well as HC and it working.  Andy Reid is probably the best example, though McVay is doing well also.  

 

I wouldn't mind a defensive minded HC with a young, hot-shot OC.  Dan Quinn/Kyle Shanahn worked out well in Atlanta, for example.

 

One of the things I criticized Jay on constantly was just taking on too much, which sub-optimized everything.  His best years were when McVay was here and he could focus more on coaching the team instead of devoting all the time to the offense.  

[mistertim]

8 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

But there's no reason to have that person as a HC.  

 

I actually prefer the setup where the HC coaches the team, sets the direction, but has really good offensive and defensive coordinators. There just aren't that many examples of HCs being the defacto OC/DC as well as HC and it working.  Andy Reid is probably the best example, though McVay is doing well also.  

 

I wouldn't mind a defensive minded HC with a young, hot-shot OC.  Dan Quinn/Kyle Shanahn worked out well in Atlanta, for example.

 

One of the things I criticized Jay on constantly was just taking on too much, which sub-optimized everything.  His best years were when McVay was here and he could focus more on coaching the team instead of devoting all the time to the offense.  

 

That's fair. I guess the big question now is whether O'Connell is the next McVay or if he's JAG material. We really have no clue because I don't think he's ever actually called a game, unless the rumors of him calling the plays when Haskins went in against the Giants are true. If O'Connell is the real deal (or even just better than Jay at calling plays) then we'd have that part of the operation locked down and could focus on getting a more defense minded HC. If he's not the real deal then the next HC will need to find himself a good OC and DC who are actually willing to be coaches here.

 

...Unless we hire an OC before HC, then decide to just make our new OC the HC because nobody else will take the HC position in such a cluster**** situation. Not that that would ever happen. 

 

I also wonder if O'Connell will just keep Jay's playbook or if he has stuff of his own that he'll do. I suppose we'll find out. 

[goskins10]

@Burgold @Voice_of_Reason

 

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/631604-vinny-cerrato-the-second-biggest-disgrace-to-the-washington-redskins

 

This is from 2011. Talks about Marty firing Vinnie. Then Dan rehiring him. 

[Conn]

39 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

But there's no reason to have that person as a HC.  

 

The biggest reason, especially when you have a young potential franchise QB, is that a hotshot OC is only going to benefit you for a year or two and then he's hired away to be someone else's HC. 

 

39 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I actually prefer the setup where the HC coaches the team, sets the direction, but has really good offensive and defensive coordinators. 

 

This sounds good in a vaccuum, but again, you lose those really good coordinators to HC promotions. I think in today's NFL, most of the best offenses, hell best teams, pair a talented (usually young) QB with an innovative playcaller as HC, to keep the ball rolling for years. You can hire the veteran DC's and OC's who are good coordinators but have already failed as HC's if you feel you need experience on each side of the ball. 

 

39 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I wouldn't mind a defensive minded HC with a young, hot-shot OC.  Dan Quinn/Kyle Shanahn worked out well in Atlanta, for example.

 

And then Kyle got hired away, the Falcons offense has never been the same, and the defense isn't even good now. A good example of what I'm describing. 

 

Examples (imo) of my way working in recent history:

 

Reid and Mahomes

Peyton and Brees

Shanahan and Jimmy G

McVay and Goff

Pederson and Wentz

 

Side note: Bienemy is so interesting to me because he's next in that Reid/Pederson tree. And like Pederson before him, he isn't calling the plays for Andy Reid but is absorbing all his knowledge, getting busy in the nuts and bolts of the offensive design, and is known as a leader of men. Hopefully he is also developing the same keen appreciation for analytics that Pederson did. 

[dyst]

Dan has a hard on for the glory years. Allen links him to it in an odd way.

[Peregrine]

5 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

That's fair. I guess the big question now is whether O'Connell is the next McVay or if he's JAG material. We really have no clue because I don't think he's ever actually called a game, unless the rumors of him calling the plays when Haskins went in against the Giants are true. If O'Connell is the real deal (or even just better than Jay at calling plays) then we'd have that part of the operation locked down and could focus on getting a more defense minded HC. If he's not the real deal then the next HC will need to find himself a good OC and DC who are actually willing to be coaches here.

 

...Unless we hire an OC before HC, then decide to just make our new OC the HC because nobody else will take the HC position in such a cluster**** situation. Not that that would ever happen. 

 

I also wonder if O'Connell will just keep Jay's playbook or if he has stuff of his own that he'll do. I suppose we'll find out. 

KOC has literally done nothing, so Im betting on JAG.  People are making this McVay comparision JUST because of the low hanging fruit that he also was an OC for the Redskins.

 

When McVey was OC, the Redskins had one of the top offenses in the NFL. With KOC, the Redskins have one of the worst offenses in the NFL.  Jay let McVey call plays, if KOC was as good he would have let him do it too.

[mistertim]

44 minutes ago, Peregrine said:

KOC has literally done nothing, so Im betting on JAG.  People are making this McVay comparision JUST because of the low hanging fruit that he also was an OC for the Redskins.

 

When McVey was OC, the Redskins had one of the top offenses in the NFL. With KOC, the Redskins have one of the worst offenses in the NFL.  Jay let McVey call plays, if KOC was as good he would have let him do it too.

 

Actually I believe that Jay called the plays during McVay's first season as OC. McVay didn't get to call them until his second season IIRC, so I wouldn't necessarily make that much of it. It could just be that he didn't think KOC was quite ready yet.

 

Then again, you could be right. Gruden may have not been all that impressed with him. I guess we'll find out this season (unless we hire an offensive HC who brings his own system and does a complete overhaul).

 

To be honest, I think I'd prefer almost anything to Jay's "scared, conservative, predictable" play calling. IMO dude was excellent at play design and getting guys open, but he just wasn't very good at game-time play calling; he didn't have the ability or cahones to take calculated risks, adjust, and attack. I think having him as a play designer and McVay as a play caller was outstanding. If we had been better at actually getting damn TDs when we were in the red zone during 2016 we might have been the best offense in the NFL that year. 

[THE#1SkinFAN]

The truth is the Spruce Algulin is the one that should be fired,  He is only using his fathers good name like a Jedi to wave his hand in Snyder’s face saying I’m a good GM  and Jay Gruden, the man I hired is not the head coach you are looking for.

 

Please never call the GM by his birth name, he deserves no respect.

 

Call him Spruce Algulin, Spruce Algulin, Spruce Algulin!! 

 

Its hard to believe Snyder was ever a real Redskin fan when he keeps this joke of a man at his side. 

 

With Spruce Algulin, the acronym  GM means Gross Manure!!!

 

The truth is, by keeping Spruce Algulin as the GM, Snyder is assaulting the very people he needs to be successful as an owner, the people who have been Redskins fans long before he purchased the team.

 

 Snyder please make a real fundamental business decision and fire Spruce Algulin and hire a real GM based on simple cold business principles who will make decisions for the integrity of our team.

 

please, please, please!!! 

[Sonny9TD]

Just saw the somewhat classless act by Haskins approving the Gruden firing. Bad decision maker. Way to go Danny. You picked a great guy here. It's OK to think so but publicly applause is unnecessary and shows what a bad decision maker he is. Thanks Danny / Bruce   You got your guy now we have to suffer thru it, Just my personal belief.

 

"By the way. JP showed me during the break, and I almost think it has to be Photoshopped," said Eric Bickel. "You're gonna think this is no big deal, but I think it's... I just think it's not classy, that Dwayne Haskins liked the NBC Sports Washington or whatever, Redskins Today, whatever it was, story that said Jay Gruden was fired today. JP showed me that on Instagram."

"And I had to ask you what does liking mean?" said Jason Bishop, who doesn't use social media. "I thought it meant just read it, he just read it, but he actually liked the article or whatever."

"It's like giving like a thumbs up," Bickel explained. "No, he went out of his way to say I like this story, I like this comment."

"Well, can you blame him? The guy doesn't like him," said Bishop. "Gruden didn't want to play him. He knows, he didn't want to draft him."

"Right," Bickel agreed. "I understand it, but it's not a good look."

"Yeah, I would agree," said Bishop.

[88Comrade2000]

19 hours ago, Thinking Skins said:

 

As true as this is, you have to play the game. Its the same game other franchizes go through. Its a game of what if. Like what if Gibbs had drafted Rodgers over Rogers (the year we drafted Campbell). What if we had drafted Wilson over RG3. What if we had brought in Breez over Brunell. Its not like these are impossible choices, they're things that were considered at the time. What if we had named McVay the choice and fired Gruden? 

 

We're stuck with Snyder for the time being. We've got Bruce for as long as it takes to get rid of him. But I refuse to believe that they're this impenetrable force of evil. We haven't won in a long time. We're the Cubs of the NFL. We're the new version of the Bengals, or the Saints, or the Lions, or the Browns, or a number of other teams who were in similar situations and couldn't seem to get out of them until they did. The Lions and Browns went 0-16 recently. But the Lions turned it around (somewhat) with the drafting of Stafford. But even he didn't take them to any type of glory, just out of the pits. And right now we're in the pits but for the last 5 years or so its been the middle of the pack, set of forgotten teams who could take the next step or fall apart. We fell apart. 

 

The question is can we find that next gem? We thought it was RG3 and he got hurt. We thought it was Cousins and he left. We think it could be Haskins and we'll see. We'll get somebody to coem in here and coach. Will it be a hotshot like McVay and his peers? Who knows? will it be another dud like Zorn? Who knows. What gives me ?optimism? is the fact that whoever we hire will be human and its almost impossible to predict human behavior. Remember the Bill Belichick coaching tree. How has that turned out? Every year the "experts" name 5-10 hot shot candidates who are supposed to be top of the line and 5 years later we see most of them twiddling there thumbs again. SO its hard to find a coach. And what we see is that for the most part outside of a NE, Pitt, GB, SD, PHi, and a few others you see teams just doing the same rotations of coaches because its hard to win in this league. How many coaches have the Titans had since Fischer? And how good was Fischer? Are we calling them a model franchise? Are we talking about them and their owner / front office as badly as we are this FO? 

 

I don't think this is any curse of the bambino type thing going on. I think its just a luck of the draw. It would be better if we had better people picking our lottery numbers, but its still basically a lottery in so many ways. I think if we had better structure and some other things we could get more say value picks or develop more lower players and UDFAS and find better FAs, but we're not doing horribly in those departments. The horrible part where we are is in the playmakers or the all pro talent. And every year out of about 250 - 500 possible new players that come into the league, I'd bet that 10, maybe 25 are that level of a player. So if we can get one - who stays healthy, it takes extreme luck. 

And I think thats a far more important thing on success than the coach. If we can just get somebody who we know is a hard worker, it goes a long way. Everything else is just a roll of the die. 

Good luck with that.

Unless Snyder stops interfering and hires a real gm and let them do their job; we will repeat this every 4-5 years. I don't see Dan changing his stripes and I have 21 years to back me up.