UK_HOG Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 7 minutes ago, Cooleyfan1993 said: Donte Whitner just sounds like he’s whining the whole video. He wasn’t even any good when he was here, was he? He was so awful, i dont even remember which season or seasons he payed for us...2014? 2015? He can **** right off. That does not make what he is saying false though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 An ex-Skins player (who never accomplished anything while here) criticizes an ex-Skins coach (who also never accomplished anything while here). I'm trying to figure out if there's any real motivation to take either one's side in this lol... But on the surface it is a bit damning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cooleyfan1993 Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 4 minutes ago, UK_HOG said: That does not make what he is saying false though. It might be true, but It still makes him sound like a whiner. A whiner who did nothing while with the team, whining about a coach who also did nothing. Zzzzzzz. Boring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 46 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said: Jay Gruden could totally be a loser that can’t lead men, but nothing about this interview indicates that. It sounds like he took something Jay said very personal, that to me sounds out of character for a guy where the narrative has been that he’s too soft on his players. He said that He hurt his quad in the last game of the season, and Jay asked who was laying down over there, get him up so we can finish the game. That actually sounds like something a very, shrewd coach that’s hard on his players would say. So that’s a big meh from me. The bulk of the interview he’s not coming at Gruden but going on about Perry Fewell, and Greg Manusky and how they suck. And how the NFL as a whole suffers because coaches hire their buddies. That’s never been news to me. I think there can certainly be a difference between being a friendly and personable guy and being a leader. I never really take a single account from one person as necessarily the full truth, but I wouldn't really be surprised if Jay may be a good guy and cool to hang out with but not necessarily a very good leader of men on a football team. His "aw shucks" persona and apparent lack of killer instinct and drive have always stood out to me. If your coach is like that, it will inevitably trickle down to at least some of the players. And yeah the Manusky stuff really stood out to me as well and seems to ring very true. I'm quite an amateur compared to some of our posters here who have been football coaches, etc but even I can many times look at the Skins' defensive alignment/coverage before the snap and call it correctly. If I can do that then an NFL QB or decent OC sure as hell can. The hiring friends thing is something else that is 100% unsurprising to me. It's a complete cultural thing and the fish rots from the head down. Allen almost always hires old buddies and people he's close to and that filters down to the rest of the coaches who just hire friends, even if their coaching ability and experience is lacking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xameil Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 1 hour ago, Cooleyfan1993 said: Donte Whitner just sounds like he’s whining the whole video. He wasn’t even any good when he was here, was he? He was so awful, i dont even remember which season or seasons he payed for us...2014? 2015? He can **** right off. Idk man.... What he says makes sense. You can tell by the attitudes the players have. They just dont look like they were willing to fight for Gruden. Only 1 player has really spoken consistently in defense of Gruden. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sinister Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 2 hours ago, goskins10 said: Pretty interesting interview here. Many of you may have already heard it but it's pretty damning against Jay. I may have to change my position on him - I know, pretty late. Better late than never. I will say it does nothing to change my opinion of Bruce and Dan - they are still the root cause. But this shows Jay as a bigger part of the problem. Now it is just one guy who didn't last. But i have a hard time believing everything he said is just sour grapes. The stuff about the coaching was far more alarming to me than the personal anecdote stuff. People can parrot the usual braindead sour grapes retorts all they want, but it all adds up. All of it. And it also answers the question of why this D continues to suck, despite so much being invested in it, and why, instead of improving, many players regress or stagnate. Grilliams would've had a boner with this much talent. Talent cant overcome a gump ass scheme/group of coaches, though. And a moronic, dysfunctional atmosphere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Est.1974 Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 So can we now agree that Jay was a poor head coach with lower than average people management skills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ntotoro Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 2 hours ago, goskins10 said: Pretty interesting interview here. Many of you may have already heard it but it's pretty damning against Jay. I may have to change my position on him - I know, pretty late. Better late than never. I will say it does nothing to change my opinion of Bruce and Dan - they are still the root cause. But this shows Jay as a bigger part of the problem. Now it is just one guy who didn't last. But i have a hard time believing everything he said is just sour grapes. Jay was a turd. It's ok to think that AND still despise Dan and Bruce, believe it or not LOL! 1 hour ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said: Jay Gruden could totally be a loser that can’t lead men, but nothing about this interview indicates that. His tenure already did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 1 hour ago, ntotoro said: 1 1 hour ago, ntotoro said: Jay was a turd. It's ok to think that AND still despise Dan and Bruce, believe it or not LOL! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TouchdownSkin Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 1 hour ago, UK SKINS FAN '74 said: So can we now agree that Jay was a poor head coach with lower than average people management skills. I’ve felt that since his first season. Just such a DUD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BatteredFanSyndrome Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 1 hour ago, ntotoro said: His tenure already did. That's fine and all to cherry pick the first sentence of my post. I get it dude, you hate him and think he sucks and have for a long time. But the point was that I didn't really find Whitner's piece there to be all that damning on Jay. I was actually expecting it to be that he was lackadaisical, sloppy and fostered a buddy environment with the players. Because that aligns with the narrative on him for going on 6 years. What Witner said honestly sounded like he was looking for a reason to be mad at him and took something that was probably a joke, personal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koolblue13 Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 Grudens tenure as head coach in video form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 3 hours ago, Cooleyfan1993 said: Donte Whitner just sounds like he’s whining the whole video. He wasn’t even any good when he was here, was he? He was so awful, i dont even remember which season or seasons he payed for us...2014? 2015? He can **** right off. We've had lots of bad players here, do their opinions and stories not count unless they're elite? Don't know what this has to do with the contents of the video. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wit33 Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 3 hours ago, Cooleyfan1993 said: It might be true, but It still makes him sound like a whiner. A whiner who did nothing while with the team, whining about a coach who also did nothing. Zzzzzzz. Boring. Could be right, but it does appear a pattern is developing in how things were done day to day with Jay. Even Matt Ion who was attempting to be as PC as possible shared that practices are more organized and things have changed (paraphrasing). There seems to be some validity to it all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wit33 Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 3 hours ago, Cooleyfan1993 said: It might be true, but It still makes him sound like a whiner. A whiner who did nothing while with the team, whining about a coach who also did nothing. Zzzzzzz. Boring. Could be right, but it does appear a pattern is developing in how things were done day to day with Jay. Even Matt Ion who was attempting to be as PC as possible shared that practices are more organized and things have changed (paraphrasing). There seems to be some validity to it all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veteranskinsfan Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 I liked Whitner's comment about leading men. He cited Jim Harbaugh and Vic Fangio as coaches who were good leaders who could coach players directly. Head Coaches never get formal training on leadership. So they probably emulate a leadership style they learned sometime in their careers from senior head coaches they worked with or they just wing it. Jay strikes me a Head Coach who just winged it. Probably did not even use the leadership style of his dad who was a coach or his brother. Now consider the curious case of Kyle Shanahan. Kyle probably has formed his own unique leadership style which is not at all based on working for his dad. We often talk about coaching trees. The coaching trees generally would most likely apply to strategy and plays each coach learned from other successful head coaches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 By the way, slightly surprised nobody has claimed Whitner was probably paid by Bruce and Dan to smear Gruden lol....because "I wouldn't put anything past them." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BatteredFanSyndrome Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 1 minute ago, Califan007 said: By the way, slightly surprised nobody has claimed Whitner was probably paid by Bruce and Dan to smear Gruden lol....because "I wouldn't put anything past them." He didn’t really smear him though. Otherwise, I’d agree with you and also the fact that you can’t put anything past them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinny21 Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 7 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said: He didn’t really smear him though. Otherwise, I’d agree with you and also the fact that you can’t put anything past them. I’m with you that Whitner’s anecdote seemed really mild. In fact, I hope he didn’t hear what Gruden said (second hand) and then use that as justification to tell all the players that Gruden was two-faced. I’d hate to think story lead to guys not buying into Gruden as a coach. Heck, even the point about Fewell not talking to guys after losses... could just be how the guy rolls. Kind of over the top to let that be your guide on the type of man you think someone is. Of course, there could be other examples that weren’t shared, so I’m not gonna totally discount Whitner’s take. With all that said, I do buy that Gruden (and Fewell) is not really a ‘leader of men’ type. And also to your earlier point BFS, the stuff about knowledge of schemes and disguises was much more concerning to me... albeit a bit unsurprising. Ditto the hiring friends angle, though I honestly can’t recall who was friends with who in terms of coaches/hires. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cooleyfan1993 Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 1 hour ago, ConnSKINS26 said: We've had lots of bad players here, do their opinions and stories not count unless they're elite? Don't know what this has to do with the contents of the video. He’s completely right, still sounds like a whiner though 🤷🏻♂️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BatteredFanSyndrome Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 Just now, Cooleyfan1993 said: He’s completely right, still sounds like a whiner though 🤷🏻♂️ I’d agree in that it could all be accurate, but just his tone alone seemed bitter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 1 hour ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said: He didn’t really smear him though. The videos were tamer than Whitner's comments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BatteredFanSyndrome Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 20 minutes ago, Califan007 said: The videos were tamer than Whitner's comments. The videos were just a low blow, more up the alley of a slime ball. Whitner’s comments were particular to his own experience with Gruden and spent the bulk of his time talking about Fewell and Manusky. I was expecting much worse from the way it was tagged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fwo40 Posted October 19, 2019 Share Posted October 19, 2019 Putting aside the stuff clearly aimed at Jay (although I mostly think jay's incompetent) - Whitner is speaking the emerging truth not just for the Redskins, but for may teams. Coaches hiring friends to fill out coaching staffs, instead of truly qualified leaders and teachers is a killer to teams that actually need that edge to move up. We've seen it over and over here with all the Tampa connections, usually teams aren't that conspicuous with it - but it is a major problem with a lot of the annually bad franchises. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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