BatteredFanSyndrome Posted October 7, 2019 Share Posted October 7, 2019 2 minutes ago, KDawg said: I don't think that's the worst thing to have. A little personality helps a team. Eases stress, makes things lighter... but all three of those guys were ****ing gamers, man. They didn't mess around when it came time to be serious. I mean some of the stuff they did (And Moss) was not a good look, but the personalities were great. And none of them stepped too far out of line. If I were Gibbs they would have stressed me the **** out, though I wasn’t crapping on those guys or Gibbs. It’s just more my point that the makeup of Gibbs teams were different than what we’ve seen since. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sinister Posted October 7, 2019 Share Posted October 7, 2019 4 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said: It helped that those Gibbs teams were primarily made up of veterans in a time period just before the birth of the IPhone and modern technology advancements. I mean even those Gibbs teams had issues with guys like Clinton, Cooley and Sean Taylor bearing to their own drum. All young guys. True, they had issues, but at least when it came to Portis and Taylor, the business of football was where they became tone setters. Until Gibbs left and the rot set in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickyJ Posted October 7, 2019 Share Posted October 7, 2019 Phase 1 complete. Phase 2, fire Bruce Allen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Posted October 7, 2019 Share Posted October 7, 2019 HFS this is funny Jay is gonna be just fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted October 7, 2019 Share Posted October 7, 2019 4 minutes ago, JSSkinz said: The one thing I heard Finlay say that gave me some hope was that he thinks they are in the "redzone" when it comes to finalizing the stadium. Maybe wrapping up that transaction sets things in action for Bruce being reassigned or fired. Yeah I heard the same. WP writes keep saying Bruce is safe as long as the stadium in play. But also Jay Glazer (whose been right a lot) said Dan won't get rid of Bruce -- Bruce is his guy. Having said that, eventually Dan is going to run out of targets to "fix" his issue with fans without touching Bruce. Whose the next target -- I guess Callahan? 2 minutes ago, ConnSKINS26 said: HFS this is funny Jay is gonna be just fine. According to Sheehan and Russell in the off season, Jay was already fed up and didn't care a lot if it went south for him as for losing his job. i wouldn't doubt it and I think I can understand the feeling. I wouldn't be surprised if he's relieved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sinister Posted October 7, 2019 Share Posted October 7, 2019 10 minutes ago, Califan007 said: ****, did I misread that one, too? lol...lemme go back. Damn, chick put it on you last night, didn't she? 😂 What day is it? Do you remember your name? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted October 7, 2019 Share Posted October 7, 2019 11 minutes ago, KDawg said: I absolutely love that you stand on your hill for Haskins. That's not sarcasm. I love it. I do the same with Alex Smith despite the numbers. I respect the hell out of it, actually. You look at Haskins like I look at bacon. Much respect. My guy back in the day at the time was RG3 and boy was i wrong. 😀 I got some serious doubts about Haskins and I don't love everything I've been hearing about how he's developing. I am 50-50 on him. 25% of the pie as to positivity is about me liking Haskins the dude a lot -- seems like a great guy. The other 25% is respecting @stevemcqueen1 who is rock star level good on the draft thread -- so i am hoping he's right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted October 7, 2019 Share Posted October 7, 2019 4 minutes ago, KDawg said: I absolutely love that you stand on your hill for Haskins. That's not sarcasm. I love it. I do the same with Alex Smith despite the numbers. I respect the hell out of it, actually. You look at Haskins like I look at bacon. Much respect. Haskins is both the future of this franchise and a test. If we can't develop him, then we can't develop a quarterback. I've already kind of suspected that's the case after what happened with RGIII and then Kirk, but I was hoping we got a mulligan with Haskins. Gruden being gone will help though. The major problem for Haskins is that he's got no stability in his coaching staff. And he also doesn't have much in the way of offensive line or running back and receiver talent to help prop him up in his developmental period either. The second issue can be fixed with good player development, good drafting, and good free agent signing. But the first issue is what could doom him. And us. He needs a coach who has bought in on both him and on the future of the team as a whole. AND that coach needs to be good with young quarterbacks. That is not going to be easy to find. For one thing, there are very few coaches who are good with young QBs. For another, it's going to be hard to find an outside hire willing to inherit a QB rather than pick his own. The list of new HC hires that have successfully developed an inherited QB who was still in the beginning stages of his development is very small. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zCommander Posted October 7, 2019 Share Posted October 7, 2019 Jay either knew he was getting fired when he put Colt in instead of Haskins. Or Dan told him to put Haskins in and he didn't. This is why Dan and Bruce left the park in a hurry last night to draw up the firing paperwork. This won't fix the OL issues though. Not sure what Dan is thinking here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desertbeagle85 Posted October 7, 2019 Share Posted October 7, 2019 20 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said: They tried. No one wanted the job. Not true You can always find someone that will take the job. The guys they had in mind said no. That doesn't mean they couldn't find someone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo#44 Posted October 7, 2019 Share Posted October 7, 2019 Just now, zskins said: Not sure what Dan is thinking here. How many times over the years can we apply this simple statement? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsmania123 Posted October 7, 2019 Share Posted October 7, 2019 3 minutes ago, Califan007 said: For me, anyway, it's the presence of logic holes coupled with the occam's razor approach to things in life that plays the biggest role. It's not enough for me to just believe they could have, I have to prove to myself first that they did and that them releasing the video is the answer that requires the smallest number of assumptions for me to make. This fails at both. This approach is a normal one when you are dealing with a normal organization and normal people running it. But you cannot ignore past experiences with an organization when the structure of it has not changed. Especially when you have the same story, slightly different plot scenarios. If this was the first time anything like this came up I would never even propose what I believe they did to Gruden. They have proven since Dan took over this organization to never take the simplest approach to anything. The drama is always there. These guys do this half ass conjuring up of bull **** and then push it out into the public domain. They have knee jerk emotional responses to pretty much everything they do, and It trumps logic and simplicity. Because of this they should not be given the benefit of the doubt or assume they operate like normal people within a normal organization because of past behavior. These guys have proven to be emotional, nostalgic, petty and at this point they are probably jealous and angry....at least Dan. There is no logic. No rationality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSSkinz Posted October 7, 2019 Share Posted October 7, 2019 5 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said: Yeah I heard the same. WP writes keep saying Bruce is safe as long as the stadium in play. But also Jay Glazer (whose been right a lot) said Dan won't get rid of Bruce -- Bruce is his guy. Having said that, eventually Dan is going to run out of targets to "fix" his issue with fans without touching Bruce. Whose the next target -- I guess Callahan? I think our best hope is the stadium deal getting completed and then Bruce gets reassigned, I'll take that over the status quo if Dan can't part with his buddy. I imagine Callahan, Tomsula, and Manusky are gone after the season, have you heard or do you think differently? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted October 7, 2019 Share Posted October 7, 2019 2 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said: Haskins is both the future of this franchise and a test. If we can't develop him, then we can't develop a quarterback. I've already kind of suspected that's the case after what happened with RGIII and then Kirk, but I was hoping we got a mulligan with Haskins. Gruden being gone will help though. The major problem for Haskins is that he's got no stability in his coaching staff. And he also doesn't have much in the way of offensive line or running back and receiver talent to help prop him up in his developmental period either. The second issue can be fixed with good player development, good drafting, and good free agent signing. But the first issue is what could doom him. And us. He needs a coach who has bought in on both him and on the future of the team as a whole. AND that coach needs to be good with young quarterbacks. That is not going to be easy to find. For one thing, there are very few coaches who are good with young QBs. For another, it's going to be hard to find an outside hire willing to inherit a QB rather than pick his own. The list of new HC hires that have successfully developed an inherited QB who was still in the beginning stages of his development is very small. You're not wrong on most of this (in my opinion). I don't buy the narrative that if you can't develop Haskins you can't develop a QB, but I do buy the narrative that we can't develop a QB with our situation. No guru is going to want to come here because the reality is that these gurus will have many offers from better franchises. The only way the narrative changes is with Allen being removed, in my opinion. But damn if you're not correct and on the same page with me every where else. This is such a bad situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTskin Posted October 7, 2019 Share Posted October 7, 2019 I was at a wedding this weekend when I heard about the Gruden pics being released and told all the guys that this is the classic Redskins method. Paint someone in a bad light and then make the firing. I was a Gruden supporter until this season and overlooked his flaws because he always kept us in the mix or at least we had somewhat realistic playoff dreams through November (it's sad that that's my bar). As I've said a few times, we all knew that 0-5 was possible, but being butchered like we were and showing a serious lack of care in every respect was reflective of the coaches. Our D was terrible, which I can't really blame on Gruden but our offense was equally bad, which I can blame on Gruden. Whether we hate BA or not, there is enough talent here to be decent, not the Dolphins. My issue has always been that if we fire Gruden then who will be bring in? Who WANTS to coach here? The hiring and firing cycle keeps us spinning the wheels if not putting us in reverse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander Adama Posted October 7, 2019 Share Posted October 7, 2019 13 minutes ago, KDawg said: ...like I look at bacon. I believe that is almost universal. Who doesn't love bacon? Well except for vegetarians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted October 7, 2019 Share Posted October 7, 2019 9 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said: According to Sheehan and Russell in the off season, Jay was already fed up and didn't care a lot if it went south for him as for losing his job. i wouldn't doubt it and I think I can understand the feeling. I wouldn't be surprised if he's relieved. I can understand that as well. We get wrapped up in this stuff because football fandom is a passion, but this is a job for many people. I'm sure with most of us, if we were in a challenging environment and even in over our heads in our careers, we would be relieved to be bought out as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted October 7, 2019 Share Posted October 7, 2019 25 minutes ago, NickyJ said: Phase 1 complete. Phase 2, fire Bruce Allen. Working on it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DmvE Posted October 7, 2019 Share Posted October 7, 2019 4 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said: Yeah I heard the same. WP writes keep saying Bruce is safe as long as the stadium in play. But also Jay Glazer (whose been right a lot) said Dan won't get rid of Bruce -- Bruce is his guy. Having said that, eventually Dan is going to run out of targets to "fix" his issue with fans without touching Bruce. Whose the next target -- I guess Callahan? According to Sheehan and Russell in the off season, Jay was already fed up and didn't care a lot if it went south for him as for losing his job. i wouldn't doubt it and I think I can understand the feeling. I wouldn't be surprised if he's relieved. Jay is definitely relieved, as he should be. Granted Jay lacks actionable explanations for things regarding penalties, lack of changes, and questionable defensive hiring's. But I think we haven't shed enough light on the concept of not wanting to draft Haskins. We just say oh Jay doesn't like Haskins and read all the headlines. But I think Jay has a legitimate argument. You don't draft developmental players in the first round. It has been said numerous times that Jay has an eye for talent, I'm not saying that is completely true. The organization has not learned yet that mistakes like this are so detrimental to culture and the organization. This coupled with the same type of bone headed decisions regarding player management and evaluation probably lead Jay to not give a crap about how and what he has said this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo#44 Posted October 7, 2019 Share Posted October 7, 2019 5 minutes ago, desertbeagle85 said: Not true You can always find someone that will take the job. The guys they had in mind said no. That doesn't mean they couldn't find someone. Ok. No one BETTER wanted the job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted October 7, 2019 Share Posted October 7, 2019 3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said: My guy back in the day at the time was RG3 and boy was i wrong. 😀 You weren't wrong about RGIII. He was an incredible prospect. We just failed with him. He got severely hurt and his coaches quit on him and the new regime never wanted him. We robbed the NFL of a star talent. We're not the only one that does that, the Cardinals probably just did it too with Rosen. But it definitely doesn't give me a lot of confidence in our ability to successfully develop Haskins (or another QB prospect) moving forward. There are two NFL truisms about quarterbacks that I learned from an OG draft thread friend named darrellgreenie. I repeat them often, but never really seem to sink in for most fans: 1 - Franchise QBs are made and not found. 2 - Bad franchises don't make franchise QBs. We've been a bad franchise and we have failed with good prospects. That doesn't mean we'll always be a bad franchise. But TBH, a near-term turnaround doesn't seem likely. That's why I view Haskins as a test. His progress is reflective of the progress of the organization as a whole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desertbeagle85 Posted October 7, 2019 Share Posted October 7, 2019 7 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said: Ok. No one BETTER wanted the job. Lol this might be one of the funnier post. No one better you say? You can't get any worse at this point. So maybe no one better according to Jay Gruden, but that's probably another reason why Jays gone today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted October 7, 2019 Share Posted October 7, 2019 44 minutes ago, veteranskinsfan said: Real classy to have Gruden show up at 5 am. Are we supposed to be impressed? Allen is going nowhere. I think I would have showed up in a bath robe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DmvE Posted October 7, 2019 Share Posted October 7, 2019 7 minutes ago, KDawg said: You're not wrong on most of this (in my opinion). I don't buy the narrative that if you can't develop Haskins you can't develop a QB, but I do buy the narrative that we can't develop a QB with our situation. No guru is going to want to come here because the reality is that these gurus will have many offers from better franchises. The only way the narrative changes is with Allen being removed, in my opinion. But damn if you're not correct and on the same page with me every where else. This is such a bad situation. Like you @KDawg i do not disagree totally with these statements. The only problem I have with comments like this is the developmental aspect. In drafting a quarterback in the upper part of the first round, no team should be having to develop things such as poor mechanics or footwork. Developmental is saved for late second early third at the earliest IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Hangman- C_Hanburger Posted October 7, 2019 Share Posted October 7, 2019 2 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said: You weren't wrong about RGIII. He was an incredible prospect. We just failed with him. He got severely hurt and his coaches quit on him and the new regime never wanted him. We robbed the NFL of a star talent. We're not the only one that does that, the Cardinals probably just did it too with Rosen. But it definitely doesn't give me a lot of confidence in our ability to successfully develop Haskins (or another QB prospect) moving forward. And RG3 had nothing to do with his failures...got it. Shanny at least had discipline..but he screwed the pooch on his DC's. That's what killed him. Not sure if Bruce was responsible for Hasslett, but It was discussed that Haz was a Bruce guy..so I agree Bruce is still the lynch pin of these failures Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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