The Skins Can't Win With These Coaches

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

I can’t help but laugh at all the different reasons, some entirely opposite of one another, in the same game, that folks say Gruden sucks so terribly.  It’s hard not to be looked at as flailing.

 

And please don’t take this as some great defense of Jay as if I think he’s Joe Gibbs or something, but my lord...

[Burgold]

I guess it all depends on what your definitions for success as a head coach are, BFS. Based on mine, he has been a failure. I agree there have been extenuating circumstances. I could even agree that he was set up to fail given some of what has transpired (through bad GMing and injuries) under his reign, but bottom line... he hasn't improved his weaknesses sufficiently, his teams underperform compared to their talent level, and when he's doing well and at the top of his game he's a 7-9 coach.

 

Maybe that doesn't suck terribly, but it sure does suck.

[WilberMarshall]

Holding unto a mistake so as not to look impetuous. 

 

The real sad part about Gruden and his D-Coordinator is that if you asked any Skins fan that remotely follows this team, they will tell you exactly what to expect of this coaching staff.  Some might hold out hope that a leopard lost its spots. 

 

Watching the game and was wondering how are they going to blow this. Bet the players on the team was wondering the same exact thing... and the opposing team was also wondering when are the Skins going to fold.

 

Wentz could have kneeled on first and second down so as not to mess up his perfect QB rating on 3rd down and just pass on 3rd down. 

 

Next week, they will again be surprised as they get torched by Amani Toomer. Losing him in coverage... expecting him not to get open. SMDH

[Skinsinparadise]

10 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

But in this case the FO was probably right not to cut Peterson because a. he’s probably the best back on the team, b. Guice is coming off an injury and has never played a regular season game, c. He is a locker room leader, hard worker and a good example, and (most importantly) d. If something happened to Guice, you don’t want Perine to be the guy going in. Or Byron Marshall for that matter.  

 

The FO does get some stuff right amid the chaos and stupidity, and this seems to be one of them.  

 

This just isn’t a good look for Jay.  And the Guice injury makes it look worse....

 

 

Sure, I never said the FO gets it all wrong.  But its irrelevant to the point.  And on that front, its just our opinion as opposed to it being fact.  I probably lead the chorus on the board that the FO is so so and doesn't stink.  Good decisions.  Bad decisions.  In total they are "meh" IMO.     On most of the things that Jay (according to some reporters) duked it out with the FO, I agree with Jay.  On this one, I agree with the FO.  Dan's been associated with a lot of boneheaded moves and desires but hey he wanted Santana Moss allegedly and it was Marty who wanted Rod Gardner.  Just like anything in life, it's about what you get right most of the time.   

 

As for Jay giving himself a bad look.  I gather he might not care.   And that's part of the point.  You are the one who has led the chorus of you'd like Jay to have a showdown with the FO and if it costs his job so be it, now he might be doing just that but you don't like it because you don't like his angle on it.  I am with Sheehan, Junkies, Paulsen on it, like them (actually Sheehan, and the Junkies are OK with the move, Paulsen disagrees with it but thinks the coach should make that decision).   I wouldn't have made that decision myself but I support that its the coaches call as to who makes his roster.  And frankly digesting what Jay wanted to do according to the Junkies at least, even though some like to focus on the releasing part of the narrative, trading Peterson was part of that narrative too and I suspect they could have traded him.    Love Peterson but I totally support trading ANY 30 plus year old player on this roster.  To me this is a rebuilding and not a win now team. 

 

According to some who cover this team, this isn't about Peterson but a series of decisions.    It's not that Jay's been loving (according to some) what's happening here but it's just this one pesky roster decision.  

[skinsmania123]

The old saying you can control what you can control applies to Gruden.  For me, the greatest failure in his tenure, is his inability to rally the troops - to have these guys prepared for a whole game. I am not a statistician but it seems to me that any lead we have going into the half just dwindles away, and we look to the league as uninspired, and an easy win.  A team that will seem to give a fight but will eventually fold like a cheap tent.  I am not sure how many times we have heard players say after a game, something to the effect, - "I don't know what happened we came out flat in the second half. We have to figure out" Yeah you do.  No enthusiasm.  No drive or sustainable effort.   And then things seem to get super sloppy.  If I were to use an ideal game to prove this, it would be this past Sunday in Filthy.   There was absolutely NO REASON they should have lost that game.  

 

And I agree he has had many times, the past two years,  to make the most, given the number of injuries, but whether we have fielded a healthy club, or one with any number of injuries, the result has pretty much been the same.   We are a 6-10, 7-9 team.  

 

And talking about just the Eagles game the writing was on the wall with 2 minutes left in the second quarter on that bomb to DJax's.  And how many times have we seen this?  Setting the stage for the other team full momentum going into the 3rd quarter.  And WHAT should a HC do? - especially if you were trying to get a new DC in the offseason right in front of your inept personal hire?  You go to Manlosesky, as the HC and say, "you have to do something about Jackson in the second half because they are going to do it again."  A GOOD, fiery, I want to win HC holds their DC's accountable throughout a game.  That is part of the job description.

 

Gruden makes a number of head scratching decisions.  This past Sunday the biggest one for me was not activating AP.  Any of my posts can be looked up before the game and I said something to the effect - Guice is technically a rookie, coming off a major injury, it would have been to his benefit and the teams to start him a bit slower, and have AP take some of the carries. It is just a smart decision. And if the guy is doing great you sit AP more during the game. But as it was, Guice had an issue either early on in the game.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

38 minutes ago, Burgold said:

I guess it all depends on what your definitions for success as a head coach are, BFS. Based on mine, he has been a failure. I agree there have been extenuating circumstances. I could even agree that he was set up to fail given some of what has transpired (through bad GMing and injuries) under his reign, but bottom line... he hasn't improved his weaknesses sufficiently, his teams underperform compared to their talent level, and when he's doing well and at the top of his game he's a 7-9 coach.

 

Maybe that doesn't suck terribly, but it sure does suck.

I was more talking about all the "no counter punch", "no adjustments, no answers", "started sitting on the lead in the 2nd quarter", and various other complaints.  It just comes across as flailing, because much of it isn't accurate.  There are certainly areas where Gruden is ripe for the picking.  But the monday morning quarterback stuff is so all over the place, I often times wonder if folks are of right mind when watching the game and have a decent enough memory to recall what actually happened.

[WilberMarshall]

Thought the D-Coordinator hire has always been Jay calling the shots?

 

Thought when they fired Torrian Gray as DB coach that the incessant communication breakdown in the secondary will be a thing of the past? 

 

Also thought we will finally be able to execute an effective Zone coverage on 3rd and forever.  But I guess all that works when you have a pass rush?

 

Ps., Was Sweat dropping into coverage or was he busy like Kerrigan playing pat-a-cake pat-a-cate with Eagles O-Linemen?

 

 

2 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I was more talking about all the "no counter punch", "no adjustments, no answers", "started sitting on the lead in the 2nd quarter", and various other complaints.  It just comes across as flailing, because much of it isn't accurate.  There are certainly areas where Gruden is ripe for the picking.  But the monday morning quarterback stuff is so all over the place, I often times wonder if folks are of right mind when watching the game and have a decent enough memory to recall what actually happened.

 

Thought for the record he was aggressive to end the 2nd quarter.  He was also aggressive in a couple of possessions in the 3rd with an overthrow pass (QB error), couple of dropped passes and Guice taking the wrong hole or lane on some running plays.  

 

Truthfully, the loss should be on the defense that had 13 attempts to stop Wentz on 3rd downs with a number of the 3rd downs being 6+ yards.  

 

 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

2 minutes ago, WilberMarshall said:

Thought the D-Coordinator hire has always been Jay calling the shots?

Depends on what you choose to believe and we'll never really know the answers on this.  From what I gather, Haslett was 'forced' upon Jay - but it's not like he was kicking and screaming against it, as he had a prior relationship with him.  I've heard a few narratives on when Barry was hired, that he didn't have the type of budget required to bring in a big shot and was really impressed with Barry in in the interview process.  There is the other side where Wade Phillips (who would break the budget) said the interview process with Jay was unlike any other and didn't feel warm and fuzzy walking away.  No matter what, ultimately Barry is on Jay.  Manusky, on the other hand, I'd love to know and can't even quite recall how he ended up the DC.  I just remember thinking "really?".  He's done nothing to change that thought since holding the position.  It's hard to say what really took place this offseason, whether Jay was actively trying to replace him or the front office was making Jay replace him or get some help.  Nobody really knows, but that's just more of the wierd stuff that takes place here that other head coaches don't typically have to worry about. 

10 minutes ago, WilberMarshall said:

Thought for the record he was aggressive to end the 2nd quarter.  He was also aggressive in a couple of possessions in the 3rd with an overthrow pass (QB error), couple of dropped passes and Guice taking the wrong hole or lane on some running plays.  

 

Truthfully, the loss should be on the defense that had 13 attempts to stop Wentz on 3rd downs with a number of the 3rd downs being 6+ yards.  

Add penalties to the first part, and I'm right there with you.

 

The defense was horrendous and if folks want to pin that on Jay because he's the head coach, fine.  But to start digging deep into the well to make it about the offense I simply think is flailing for the sake of being angry with the loss.

[Skinsinparadise]

The reason why the Pleasant case is so interesting to me is because it backs what Laconfora has said which is the team is no longer the high bidder for people (he was explaining that in context of personnel guys) but actually a low bid type team now like Cincy.  So according to him the team has gotten cheap which he places on Bruce.   He covered the team when Dan was willing to outbid.  If we recall pre-Bruce, Dan made Gregg Williams the highest paid defensive coordinator at the time.

 

But yeah in the past even if this wasn't the ideal place to coach or work in the FO, at least Dan can make it worth your while by paying big to deal with it.  That might not be true anymore.  Now, if people don't show up to watch games this season and Dan needs a splash maybe he overrides his lieutenant and opens up the cash.  And I have no idea how they approach the D coordinator position money wise.  I recall one beat guy saying this year Dan got desperate and told Bowles name your price.  But old school Dan could have probably gotten Wade Phillips (the 2nd time he was approached- pre-Manusky) by a fat contract, Gus Bradley, etc, too.  But I got my doubts with their new school approach to this which supposedly is heavily influenced by Bruce. 

 

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/football-insider/wp/2017/01/25/redskins-and-aubrey-pleasant-at-a-standstill-in-contract-discussions/

 

Redskins and Aubrey Pleasant at a standstill in contract discussions

 

MOBILE, Ala. — The Washington Redskins are still hoping to retain assistant defensive backs Aubrey Pleasant on their coaching staff, but have started seeking other options. Pleasant, who was offered a promotion as Washington’s defensive backs coach, has yet to re-sign with the team and currently does not have a contract.

There’s still a chance Pleasant could return to Washington, but both sides are playing hard ball with Pleasant’s contract offer. Pleasant has other teams interested, including the Los Angeles Rams, where he would join Sean McVay’s staff. Redskins Coach Jay Gruden said the team has shopped around to see who else is available this week during the Senior Bowl in Mobile.

“We’re looking, we’re looking,” Gruden said. “Aubrey is working on a contract and just kind of been a snap hiccup right now. So, we’ve gotta move on.”

 

Pleasant was one of three defensive coaches retained by the Redskins after the 2016 season. He built a great rapport with players in the secondary and was able to help get the most out of cornerback Bashaud Breeland during the final month of the season after an inconsistent year.

 

https://www.profootballrumors.com/aubrey-pleasant

Prior to moving toward Gray, the Redskins wanted now-Rams assistant Aubrey Pleasant to serve in Gray’s capacity. Money served as an issue that led to an irked Pleasant departing, with the move to Los Angeles coming after the Redskins previously blocked teams from interviewing their coveted assistant.

 

ADVER

[The Hangman- C_Hanburger]

10 hours ago, BoycottEuphemisticFans said:

i know everyone wants Manusky gone and Gruden gone and I understand that.  But as much attention should be given to the fact that they played an eventual SuperBowl contender on Sunday in the Eagles.  Its not Manusky's fault that he is employed by a horrific front office.  The Eagles are just much better equipped to succeed and their team?  I mean, look at it: 

They have a franchise QB who when healthy is one of the best

They have a TE, who unlike in Washington, always is on the field and catches a 100+ balls a year.  You cant even LET Jordan Reed catch that many because it would be detrimental to his health.  

They have DeSean Jackson, Alshon Jeffrey......they hit you with a wave of backs with perhaps the NFL's best offensive line.  And a coach that knows how to coach them.  I mean, Jesus, give the credit first to Philly, that is an EXTREMELY TOUGH team to play especially in their park.

Exactly WHY you put PRESSURE on Wentz..lots..all directions. Don't let him sit back and play. WHAT HAVE YOU GOT TO LOOSE???? You force errors..

Manusky doesn't understand that for some STUPID reason..he thinks this is Madden. Change things up..go all out. Especially when the eagles got things rolling in the 1st series. I swear Manusky would stroke out if he called a blitz on 3rd and long..

 

Gotta think..if you are going to loose to a BETTER Team playing Straight..WHY play straight...geeezzzz

[justice98]

I just wanted to get enjoy the season a little before drama and Redskin shenanigans started.  Already, fires are starting.  C'mon man.  This is maddening.  

[Burgold]

6 minutes ago, justice98 said:

I just wanted to get enjoy the season a little before drama and Redskin shenanigans started.  Already, fires are starting.  C'mon man.  This is maddening.  

I don't think last season's fires were ever put out.

[Bang]

 

I am not one who likes to yell for heads. usually I think that is lazy, know nothing screaming.
But there is no way i want to keep watching Manusky misuse this defense. I do not believe he can get them better than what he's made.
I get two big injuries in the middle.. but damn, it's like they forgot who DJax is and what he can do.

No pressure at all. No aggression.

 

 

Mr. Tickletoes would change that in a hurry.

I'd not be upset to make a change this early. Rex is an emotional guy, players follow along quickly.

 

~Bang

[illone]

Is it the coaches?

 

Is it the players?

 

Is it the front office?

 

Dan Snyder?

 

DJAX weighs in:  https://www.nbcsports.com/washington/redskins/desean-jackson-revealed-major-redskins-problem-and-it-wasnt-defense

[skinzplay]

I second that motion, @Bang

[Bang]

Jackson's comments are loud now.. but if we hit that deep ball to McLaurin in the 3rd qtr.. then what?
that play showed we hadn't quit. Beautiful design. (If anyone has th GIF..)
they fake the jet sweep to richardson and the safety bites HARD and chases him across the field and into the flat, leaving a whole side of the field open.
Just an overthrow.
that play... we were on the ropes, the momentum was all theirs, and if it hits... all of that changes. Just missed.

 

Offensively, i don't think we quit. Defensively, i don't think we quit. Defensively, i think we were mismanaged again. Offense didn't have many chances in the second half. And in the third, only held the ball for 3 minutes. Two holds went far in killing both drives.

 

~Bang

[Burgold]

25 minutes ago, Bang said:

 

I am not one who likes to yell for heads. usually I think that is lazy, know nothing screaming.
But there is no way i want to keep watching Manusky misuse this defense. I do not believe he can get them better than what he's made.
I get two big injuries in the middle.. but damn, it's like they forgot who DJax is and what he can do.

No pressure at all. No aggression.

 

 

Mr. Tickletoes would change that in a hurry.

I'd not be upset to make a change this early. Rex is an emotional guy, players follow along quickly.

 

~Bang

It's not only that they forgot what DJax does, but they forgot how Jackson geared up to have his biggest games against Philly. DJax is one of those chip on his shoulder players who excels in revenge games. Anyone who watched him here knew that he would put out his very best effort against DC. Washington dismissed and wronged him in DJax's eyes. 

 

I'm not sure it was the wrong move not to resign him. I would have re-signed one of Garcon or DJax in case Doctson busted, but it was undeniably wrong not to at least not put out a feeler bid even if we knew we could never match it because we wanted the money to franchise Kirk for the eightieth time.

[D’Pablo]

I don’t want Gruden fired at this point. He’s Mike McCarthy. A QB can thrive under him, even if he can’t get the rest of his team right, and that’s what I want for Haskins. Maybe after 2-3 seasons under Gruden, we move on to a real coach. 

[Bang]

Just now, Burgold said:

It's not only that they forgot what DJax does, but they forgot how Jackson geared up to have his biggest games against Philly. DJax is one of those chip on his shoulder players who excels in revenge games. Anyone who watched him here knew that he would put out his very best effort against DC. Washington dismissed and wronged him in DJax's eyes. 

 

I'm not sure it was the wrong move not to resign him. I would have re-signed one of Garcon or DJax in case Doctson busted, but it was undeniably wrong not to at least not put out a feeler bid even if we knew we could never match it because we wanted the money to franchise Kirk for the eightieth time.

totally agree with that,, and Dunbar stirring up that hornet's nest in the first quarter was playing Russian Roulette with a gun that ALWAYS has six bullets in it.

 

~Bang

[Burgold]

1 minute ago, Bang said:

 

 

Offensively, i don't think we quit. Defesively, i don't think we quit. defnsively, i think we were mismanaged again. Offensve didn't have many chances in the second half. And in the third, only held the ball for 3 minutes. Two holds went far in killing both drives.

 

~Bang

Yep, it was about our coordinators playing chutes and ladders while theirs were playing chess. 

 

I bet when Pederson took out his knight half our coaches giggled and asked for a pony ride.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

7 minutes ago, Bang said:

 

Offensively, i don't think we quit. Defesively, i don't think we quit. defnsively, i think we were mismanaged again. Offensve didn't have many chances in the second half. And in the third, only held the ball for 3 minutes. Two holds went far in killing both drives.

 

They don't want to hear it though, Bang.  

[Skinsinparadise]

17 minutes ago, Bang said:

Jackson's comments are loud now.. but if we hit that deep ball to McLaurin in the 3rd qtr.. then what?
that play showed we hadn't quit. Beautiful design. (If anyone has th GIF..)
they fake the jet sweep to richardson and the safety bites HARD and chases him across the field and into the flat, leaving a whole side of the field open.
Just an overthrow.
that play... we were on the ropes, the momentum was all theirs, and if it hits... all of that changes. Just missed.

 

Offensively, i don't think we quit. Defensively, i don't think we quit. Defensively, i think we were mismanaged again. Offense didn't have many chances in the second half. And in the third, only held the ball for 3 minutes. Two holds went far in killing both drives.

 

~Bang

 

Jay was aggressive as heck in that game.  11 personnel for most of the game so they were even running often out of the spread.  They came out with the long bomb to McLaurin to try to ice the lead so they weren't sitting on the lead.  But as you mentioned they didn't have a chance to move the ball in the 2nd half because the defense couldn't get off the field.

 

People can go nuts about Peterson.  And again I didn't agree with the decision either.   Yet, they only ran Guice 10 times.  I saw the other day that with the exception of the long run he had against Philly last year, Peterson went 8 carries for 12 yards against them.  The Eagles run defense is really really good.  I get the logic if the idea is to not to pound the ball but air it out and Guice isn't going to get much touches anyway so splitting those 10 carries with Peterson is no big deal and Guice is the better pass catcher.  I disagreed with the decision for a different reason than the actual game and that was it brings drama and Peterson could see it as a diss.  

 

But Jay to me didn't blow the game on offense.  The problem was on defense and big time.  @wit33 likes to make this point (and I agree with him on it) that Jay might have the Qb type he wants in Keenum or Colt.  Both guys are more aggressive than Kirk and much more aggressive than Alex.   Some like to paint Jay as Grandpa level conservative as a play caller.  And look there are aspects I don't like about him as a play caller.  But i don't think the dude is by nature conservative at least not in the passing game.  Kirk and Jay duked it out in press conferences (in a good natured way) years back with Kirk saying if he played the way Jay wanted he'd throw 30 interceptions (or something like that), and Jay quipped back maybe so but he'd also throw 60 TDs.    

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

47 minutes ago, Bang said:

 

Mr. Tickletoes would change that in a hurry.

I'd not be upset to make a change this early. Rex is an emotional guy, players follow along quickly.

 

~Bang

 

I'd love Rex but supposedly he is only willing to come back for a HC job and has turned down D coordinator jobs.  I think the more likely in house replacement would be his brother. 

[skinsmania123]

37 minutes ago, illone said:

Is it the coaches?

 

Is it the players?

 

Is it the front office?

 

Dan Snyder?

 

DJAX weighs in:  https://www.nbcsports.com/washington/redskins/desean-jackson-revealed-major-redskins-problem-and-it-wasnt-defense

This is another coaching issue If there is even a modicum of truth to this.   It is like it is a two quarter game to these guys, just like many on this board are saying.  The HC is living in a vacuum and doesn't realize this sort of stuff is going on.  Okay some will say DJax is full of ****. I don't think so somehow unfortunately.

[Skinsinparadise]