Peregrine Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 10 minutes ago, Malapropismic Depository said: The fact that both the current and previous regime here, is and was, playing hardball with him, could be a telling sign. Im not sure I would say the current regime is playing hardball with him. The previous regime played hardball and said "we wont trade you". The current regime said "You want out? Sure, we will trade you if you find a partner willing to pay our price". They've told him he can be traded, they are just playing hardball with other teams, not TW, unless they have told him they are asking for another pick everytime his agent talks to the media. Actually, thats not a bad idea... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sportsnut Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 41 minutes ago, The Consigliere said: This is just monumentally frustrating. I wouldn't be bothered at all if I trusted the F.O. to handle it right, but after the idiotic overpay for Allen, and undersell of Dunbar, I don't trust them at all to get this right. The F.O. needs to realize that the die hard fan base (the only part of the fan base willing to buy anything redskins related anymore whatsoever) is absolutely 1000% fine with just letting Williams pick up splinters, and get the compensatory picks in 2022 rather than trade him away for virtually nothing like they did Dunbar. We don't give a ---- about the distraction angle, we care about the compensation angle and we absolutely will only be satisfied with the F.O. (and since the fan base has shrunk by a good 75% over the past 20 years they should probably pay attention) taking the tack of either: 1. Fair compensation now (a 2nd at minimum, or a player and pick combo that carries that scale of value). 2. Him being kicked to to the bench, and held up for the next year, traded in August/September/October if an opportunity arises due to injury before the deadline 3. held up till he's a FA and we receive the obligatory compensatory pick (I get that we'd lose the '22 compensatory pick if we sign an equivalent player). Those are the only 3 options that the remaining fan base who gives a damn about the team (very small at this point I imagine) will tolerate. Another Dunbar-esque grand Mal stupidity trade would be grounds for burning down Redskins Park (as has pretty every GM move of the past two decades w/only rare exceptions), and would absolutely enrage the fan base, as would cutting him to rid ourselves of the annoying story being in the press. We don't care how annoying he is, we want proper compensation, or him to sit on the bench, period. If I was confident that Rivera and the rest understood this and had the same view on the situation, I'd be absolutely sanguine about the Williams issue, but after the Dunbar and Allen moves, I have zero faith in them to have any idea how to handle anything at all (of course a cursory look at the Rivera in Carolina track record is not inspiring either which is why I wasn't happy with the hire in the first place, give me innovative, talented minds, ironically like the guy Carolina hired, I'd rather pass on the dinosaur hamster wheel of connected coaches (the same stupidity that keeps gifting guys like Gettleman and Dorsey jobs over and over after they fail again and again-the way connections, rather than talent, get people jobs in this league over and over is another reminder why I firmly believe most teams are coached, managed, and run by fools). Regardless, Id just feel a lot more comfortable if I knew w/o question that the powers that be had the same approach in mind: Fair Compensation, or he can sit until he's a free agent, period. That should be the game plan, period. Completely agree on the Trent angle but I’ve come around on the Kyle Allen trade given that he has experience in the system, can help Dwayne during a covid-shortened off season, is a cheap backup that we can afford given our investment in Alex, and apparently the patriots were sniffing around. And I like the Rivera hire. While he bungled the Dunbar situation, so far he’s held the line with Trent. And I like his frugal approach to free agency after missing out on some top guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostofAlvinWalton Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 1 hour ago, The Consigliere said: 3. held up till he's a FA and we receive the obligatory compensatory pick (I get that we'd lose the '22 compensatory pick if we sign an equivalent player). Those are the only 3 options that the remaining fan base who gives a damn about the team (very small at this point I imagine) will tolerate. Another Dunbar-esque grand Mal stupidity trade would be grounds for burning down Redskins Park (as has pretty every GM move of the past two decades w/only rare exceptions), and would absolutely enrage the fan base, as would cutting him to rid ourselves of the annoying story being in the press. We don't care how annoying he is, we want proper compensation, or him to sit on the bench, period. Players who have ten or more accrued seasons may only yield a maximum of a 5th round compensatory pick, even if their actual value would otherwise be assigned higher. See Alan Faneca in 2009, who only awarded Pittsburgh with a 5th round pick instead of a 3rd despite his contract, playing time, and postseason honors. However, App. V, §4 revealed that this rule does not apply to quarterbacks. https://overthecap.com/the-basics-and-methodology-of-projecting-the-nfls-compensatory-draft-picks/ So a 5th rd comp pick (which will most likely be negated) in 2022 is better than a 3rd or 4th rd pick in 2020? Interesting take. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sportsnut Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 21 minutes ago, GhostofAlvinWalton said: Players who have ten or more accrued seasons may only yield a maximum of a 5th round compensatory pick, even if their actual value would otherwise be assigned higher. See Alan Faneca in 2009, who only awarded Pittsburgh with a 5th round pick instead of a 3rd despite his contract, playing time, and postseason honors. However, App. V, §4 revealed that this rule does not apply to quarterbacks. https://overthecap.com/the-basics-and-methodology-of-projecting-the-nfls-compensatory-draft-picks/ So a 5th rd comp pick (which will most likely be negated) in 2022 is better than a 3rd or 4th rd pick in 2020? Interesting take. I was unaware of that comp pick rule, but my position remains the same. The hope is that some team will eventually offer more if we continue to hold the line. And I’d rather see Trent sit for another year than get just a fourth in return. The signal it would send to other disgruntled players is worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Est.1974 Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 Yep 5th round comp pick is what we would get down the line for Trent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostofAlvinWalton Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 22 minutes ago, sportsnut said: I was unaware of that comp pick rule, but my position remains the same. The hope is that some team will eventually offer more if we continue to hold the line. And I’d rather see Trent sit for another year than get just a fourth in return. The signal it would send to other disgruntled players is worth it. I don't want to get just a 4th either...but I want what's the best we can do/get. The only signal Trent is sending to future disgruntled players is that you will probably lose out on millions of dollars that you will never recoup...I can live with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Est.1974 Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 Our fallback option will be a player for player trade, basically a switch of two players wanting out of their respective teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sportsnut Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 27 minutes ago, GhostofAlvinWalton said: I don't want to get just a 4th either...but I want what's the best we can do/get. The only signal Trent is sending to future disgruntled players is that you will probably lose out on millions of dollars that you will never recoup...I can live with that. The hope is that the best we can get will increase over time. And the signal sent is that if you are unhappy with your contract and publicly shame the team, we will trade you to a better one that is willing to pay you more. We sent this signal with the Dunbar trade and it caused Trent to double down. 19 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said: Our fallback option will be a player for player trade, basically a switch of two players wanting out of their respective teams. Everyone wins in this scenario because both teams get rid of their disgruntled player but get value in return. This is why the trade to the Vikings for Harris has gained traction. My concern with that trade is that we already have a lot of money tied up to the safety position with Landon and we apparently like Sean Davis at free safety. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Consigliere Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 3 hours ago, GhostofAlvinWalton said: Players who have ten or more accrued seasons may only yield a maximum of a 5th round compensatory pick, even if their actual value would otherwise be assigned higher. See Alan Faneca in 2009, who only awarded Pittsburgh with a 5th round pick instead of a 3rd despite his contract, playing time, and postseason honors. However, App. V, §4 revealed that this rule does not apply to quarterbacks. https://overthecap.com/the-basics-and-methodology-of-projecting-the-nfls-compensatory-draft-picks/ So a 5th rd comp pick (which will most likely be negated) in 2022 is better than a 3rd or 4th rd pick in 2020? Interesting take. Well that's horrifying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darrell Green Fan Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 It's also at the end of round 5 right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skin'emAlive Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 Doesn’t matter. What you are offerIng here is an elite LT for less than market price. Teams that are in contention and possibly ones that are on the hot seat do not have the luxury of waiting another year. ( Minnesota, NYJ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HigSkin Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 Houston may not be an option in the near future...we'll see Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HigSkin Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
method man Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 I can't wait until this idiot is off the team. As I've said in another thread, I would take Reiff as part of a package back for Williams. His measurables show him to profile better as a RT anyway. Vikings fans don't like him because he gets penalized and isn't as good in pass protection as run blocking. At $11M/yr, he's solid value there if the coaching staff thinks he can fit there. Moses needs to go, not only due to the inconsistent play, but also the mouthing off to the media last year. Reiff, on the other hand, is a team captain for the Vikings. Get the Vikes' compensatory 3rd, their 4th and Reiff. You can also sign Peters to man the left side. Peters / Martin / Roullier / Scherff / Reiff with Lucas, Schweitzer, Piersbacher and either Christian or a draft pick as backups is a pretty solid line Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingdaddy Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 7 hours ago, Fat Stupid Loser said: But older and frequently injured. Clearly the rest of league doesn't think he is worth what we think he is, or he thinks he is. If the Vikes give up Harris and better than a 5th, they are crazy. The only reason they give Harris is to free up money. That's your opinion. I disagree....if the Vikes give up a safety who they don't think is worth the contract he wants and a 4th they got a great deal. Trent is a 7 time pro bowler who'd likely be rejuvenated going to a playoff team and is coming off of a full season of rest. He is exactly what they need at this point in their roster/SB push....If they Vikes pulled the trigger on Harris and a 4th they'd have to walk away very happy in my opinion; They'd have a new offensive lineman better than anyone they have on their roster. Too many people see an age and think the guy is gonna decline automatically....Hell, we had John Riggins and he got arguably better in his 30's. Check out his numbers. AP is still running hard and looks great. Trent is still in his prime for sure... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oraphus Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 11 minutes ago, kingdaddy said: That's your opinion. I disagree....if the Vikes give up a safety who they don't think is worth the contract he wants and a 4th they got a great deal. Trent is a 7 time pro bowler who'd likely be rejuvenated going to a playoff team and is coming off of a full season of rest. He is exactly what they need at this point in their roster/SB push....If they Vikes pulled the trigger on Harris and a 4th they'd have to walk away very happy in my opinion; They'd have a new offensive lineman better than anyone they have on their roster. Too many people see an age and think the guy is gonna decline automatically....Hell, we had John Riggins and he got arguably better in his 30's. Check out his numbers. AP is still running hard and looks great. Trent is still in his prime for sure... you sold me.. i am in! on the phone with Mike Zimmer right now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crabbypatty Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 The whole Trent situation is so frustrating. The guy and his agent are such buttbags that nobody is willing to get him, or think he's an improvement worth the cost. That's pretty telling imo. I fear we're gonna be stuck with the guy until someone offers a 3rd next year once the injuries start occurring in training camp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Est.1974 Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 Trents agent must be desperate to get a move sorted, that’s obvious in his tone. Ironically if he can move Trent, another of his clients Peters may sign here. So the agent has a fair chunk of revenue sat in 2 major assets he can’t shift. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingdaddy Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 Just read a column by a Vikings writer that suggested 4 trades the Vikes could offer to get TW. Look it up, there are several good scenarios. In his first scenario the deal would be the Vikes 1st and 5th......for Trent. Here's what I'd start with if I'm the Skins: give us your second 1st round pick and LT Reilly Reiff for TW. Minny wants out of Reiff's bloated contract which we would take on for the next 2 seasons. That alone is very valuable for the Vikes. For that, the deal is for a 1st round pick. If you think this sounds crazy just go read the article online under "Vikings Rumors". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UK Skins Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 It's April 1st tomorrow not today. There's not a snowball in Hell's chance the Vikings give us a 1st and a 5th. I think it's looking more like we will be lucky to get a 5th for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skeenzfan Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 18 minutes ago, kingdaddy said: Just read a column by a Vikings writer that suggested 4 trades the Vikes could offer to get TW. Look it up, there are several good scenarios. In his first scenario the deal would be the Vikes 1st and 5th......for Trent. Here's what I'd start with if I'm the Skins: give us your second 1st round pick and LT Reilly Reiff for TW. Minny wants out of Reiff's bloated contract which we would take on for the next 2 seasons. That alone is very valuable for the Vikes. For that, the deal is for a 1st round pick. If you think this sounds crazy just go read the article online under "Vikings Rumors". They can outright cut Reiff and save $8M against the cap this year and $12M next year. Why would the offer include any incentives for taking him off their hands? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingdaddy Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 4 minutes ago, skeenzfan said: They can outright cut Reiff and save $8M against the cap this year and $12M next year. Why would the offer include any incentives for taking him off their hands? Good question, the only thing I can think of is that it would be their way of taking care of him? Someone said he's a team captain. No clue, but the guy who wrote the column suggested this deal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skeenzfan Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 7 minutes ago, kingdaddy said: Good question, the only thing I can think of is that it would be their way of taking care of him? Someone said he's a team captain. No clue, but the guy who wrote the column suggested this deal? Yeah teams are usually not in the business of looking out for the players. IMO getting back Reiff in the deal would only downgrade the draft compensation we would receive. They would be giving us a starting caliber LT (albeit an avg one) under contract for $11M and $12M for the next two years. I can't see where we get Reiff and more than 5th round pick in that scenario. Our best option is to get the best draft pick and sign a stop gap like Peters for a year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovemaskins Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 12 minutes ago, kingdaddy said: Good question, the only thing I can think of is that it would be their way of taking care of him? Someone said he's a team captain. No clue, but the guy who wrote the column suggested this deal? He must be a member of extremeVikeskins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nonniey Posted April 1, 2020 Share Posted April 1, 2020 12 hours ago, kingdaddy said: Just read a column by a Vikings writer that suggested 4 trades the Vikes could offer to get TW. Look it up, there are several good scenarios. In his first scenario the deal would be the Vikes 1st and 5th......for Trent. Here's what I'd start with if I'm the Skins: give us your second 1st round pick and LT Reilly Reiff for TW. Minny wants out of Reiff's bloated contract which we would take on for the next 2 seasons. That alone is very valuable for the Vikes. For that, the deal is for a 1st round pick. If you think this sounds crazy just go read the article online under "Vikings Rumors". Come on man some message board etiquette please. If you are going to ask us to read a column post the link. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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