visionary Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 Whores.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoCalMike Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 Through this entire process, and despite how much I loathe Trump as a human being, and disagree with his policies, I have avoided using the term "dictator." That term is associated with some of the most evil human beings of the modern century. However, being a dictator merely means having total power, being above the law. It doesn't mean Trump is going to turn into Saddamn Hussein or Putin. That is besides the point. It is ultimately about unchecked power that makes one a dictator, not necessarily what they choose to do with that power. We now have heard from some of Trump's legal team, as well as Senators openly admitting that Trump did what he is being accused of and basically saying, "so what?" Trump could very well come & go without doing much with his power besides further enriching himself and his family....(and honestly I have a feeling that is all he really ever wanted out of being President to begin with), but the precedent that is about to be set will have ramifications for the future. You aren't going to get away with telling one President there are no laws he must follow and then pretend like you can magically snatch that standard away from future Presidents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Springfield Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 If we fail in November then we deserve everything coming for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88Comrade2000 Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 Dems botched this. What is better?Having a cloud over your head, while House Dems fight it in courts to get witnesses to testify or evidence released or have Senate Republicans acquit Trump? I think this helps Trump more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoCalMike Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 5 minutes ago, Rdskns2000 said: Dems botched this. I thought that at the beginning, but in the end, they took their shot and we have to hope that exposing the GOP for just how far they will go to cover up for Trump, despite some of them now acknowledging that he did it, is still a good thing. 6 months ago I don't think 75% of the country would be demanding to hear from witnesses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 I wonder what Trump is getting in return.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCSaints_fan Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 The one positive is generally the conservative/Republican demographic (old/white) is shrinking every election Now I think what will happen, and has what pretty much always happened, is after an eventual blue shift in the Presidency, some battles conservatives are just going to stop fighting altogether, like they eventually did with segregation. So they redefine their platform, win back some moderates and take back power. The whole electoral college, as well as the Senate to some extent, just kind of sucks though. There's the EV compact, which would render it moot, but they are looking to get that overturned through the courts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simmsy Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 After this is over, expect Trump to try and nominate another SC nomination before November. Unless, Trump is so stupid that he actually thinks he will get re-elected and have plenty of time to ruin the SC for many decades to come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 I fear America dies with this vote. Effectively, Republicans declared the end of checks and balances and that the President stands above and is unanswerable to Congress. It also said that it's completely game for foreign entanglements. The idea that the House or House Committees has zero legal subpoena power is absurd. Our best hope might be if our allies take a page out of Russia's playbook and hack the hell out of our elections and that Germany, the UK, Japan, etc. counter the Russian/Republican alliance? Thing is, I don't know if they would/could/will. What we do know is that the Republicans have done nothing to shore up our election security and have taken steps to weaken it. We also know that the Russians have successfully gotten into several states voting apparatus. We don't know if they changed votes, but why wouldn't they? Who's to stop them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreatBuzz Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 Been a while since I woke up and saw the news that caused me to start the day this depressed. Oh well, I guess I knew it was coming. And I agree the Dems botched this. So many different questions that should have been asked, charges included, etc. America is done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simmsy Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 1 minute ago, TheGreatBuzz said: Been a while since I woke up and saw the news that caused me to start the day this depressed. Oh well, I guess I knew it was coming. And I agree the Dems botched this. So many different questions that should have been asked, charges included, etc. America is done. I don't think asking any question would have helped. One side is showing you the truth, the other pulls out any lie it can think up. These republicans know they're damned if they do and damned if they don't. I guess they figured their best plan is to stick with the don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmirOfShmo Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 20 minutes ago, Burgold said: I fear America dies with this vote. Effectively, Republicans declared the end of checks and balances and that the President stands above and is unanswerable to Congress. It also said that it's completely game for foreign entanglements. The idea that the House or House Committees has zero legal subpoena power is absurd. Our best hope might be if our allies take a page out of Russia's playbook and hack the hell out of our elections and that Germany, the UK, Japan, etc. counter the Russian/Republican alliance? Thing is, I don't know if they would/could/will. What we do know is that the Republicans have done nothing to shore up our election security and have taken steps to weaken it. We also know that the Russians have successfully gotten into several states voting apparatus. We don't know if they changed votes, but why wouldn't they? Who's to stop them? I'm with you. The most troubling part to me is the GOP refusal to accept the obstruction charge against White House Occupant. I haven't read or heard specifics from the GOP on why this isn't an impeachable offense. Or, why this is acceptable. Congress has been completely denuded. Their ability to keep the White House in check is gone. Get out and vote in November. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llevron Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 7 hours ago, DoneMessedUp said: Donald Trump bringing down the republic has to be the lamest ending to an empire ever But its so fitting for this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 17 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said: Been a while since I woke up and saw the news that caused me to start the day this depressed. Oh well, I guess I knew it was coming. And I agree the Dems botched this. So many different questions that should have been asked, charges included, etc. America is done. I don't see what else the Dems could have done that would have made a difference. I had hoped they would have gone after Trump on the Russia investigation too, but they would likely have made people even less interested and made things even more complicated. This was always going to be the outcome and Americans either can't do anything to change that, or don't care enough to do so. If things continue in this way, it will be'interesting' to see if everyone who can't be bothered to give a damn now, feels the same when it starts to come back on them (assuming it isn't already), or if this frog is going to sing a happy tune all the while it goes from pot to plate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llevron Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 Also, I look forward to a possible President Burnie Sanders using the same rules set during all this mess to his advantage and ****ing the entire game up. Or better yet Pres. Scary Spanish Woman. They have indeed ****ed themselves with this one, assuming they ever lose power again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LD0506 Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 The one thing I'd disagree with is the conclusion that America is done, although I completely understand where that feeling comes from. We have been here before, we have slogged thru disastrous and despairing times, we have fallen on our collective asses again and again and we got back up and got back to work. This is another one of those situations. The Civil War The Great Depression Hell, WWII was one that rocked the pillars of heaven America always has been in flux, reinventing ourselves, remaking ourselves in the latest image we hold in our minds. Typically hard times show themselves through the lives of the children born from them, so it takes a generation+ to realize the actual effects. The boomers were children of people that lived thru WWII, a jingoistic, militaristic expansionist phase in our history, and suckled at the teat of America ascendant, military might reshaping the world, American consumerism and production sweeping the globe. We're living out the final stages of that and it ain't pretty, but it is the final stages. Hard times ARE coming, we haven't even begun to see the worst of it yet, but I for one am not willing to dismiss the true strength of this country, the collective power of millions of people willing to toil to make a better life for their kids. Part of that IMO will be the simple inexorable toll of the reaper cutting down the boomers and converting them to compost, but following generations are already immutably bent towards a better world. Just have to accept that I won't be a part of it or here to see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 I think you have an argument with the Civil War as that one was about a fundamental shift in the way society and government operated. For me, WWII and the Great Depression is not the same. The decision the Senate is about to make shakes the very foundation of the country. The idea that checks and balances are "fake" and that we do not have three co-equal branches of government because a President can outright ignore one branch is devastating to our form of democracy. It's even worse when you consider the specific President at the steering wheel. He will not only view this as exoneration, but a green light to amp up his corruption. Every time, Congress has failed to restrain Trump, Trump has responded by upping his game and doing something worse. You are right that we came back from the Civil War and the Constitutional challenges presented there. This is still an incredibly damning day for the United States. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbear Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 Quick question for those who think this is likely to be the darkest day on our history, which is worse an aquital of Trump in the Senate or the Citizens United ruling. Both involve allowing fundamental changes in approved influences in our political system. With this one, it is countries versus last time's companies. I think my take away is "money talks," and it does not matter what the source of the funds is. Sadly that may be the take away for our civilization. We talk a good game about rights, but ultimately there is nothing (or very little) that matters more than the bottom line. Worse yet, it is a bottom line over a ahort period of time because our attention spans are tiny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StillUnknown Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 6 minutes ago, gbear said: Quick question for those who think this is likely to be the darkest day on our history, which is worse an aquital of Trump in the Senate or the Citizens United ruling. Both involve allowing fundamental changes in approved influences in our political system. With this one, it is countries versus last time's companies. I think my take away is "money talks," and it does not matter what the source of the funds is. Sadly that may be the take away for our civilization. We talk a good game about rights, but ultimately there is nothing (or very little) that matters more than the bottom line. Worse yet, it is a bottom line over a ahort period of time because our attention spans are tiny. Tough one. At the moment, I'd probably say Trump. Checks and Balances and co-equal government not to mention foreign entanglement are cornerstones to our Democracy, but Citizens United paved the way to make this happen. The idea that money equals free speech has led to the oligarchical mess we are facing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LD0506 Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 The Great Depression took the Roaring Twenties and turned them into starving people in breadlines cheering gangsters and bank robbers because they were less criminal than the establishment. You had police and troops attacking union organizers and war vets trying to get promised benefits. The result was FDR elected four times, 40 hr work weeks and Social Security and rebuilding of America far beyond anything before. WWII planted seeds of liberation for women and blacks in this country in a way that couldn't be stomped back down no matter how hard the ole boys club tried. The scenes of police dogs and fire hoses splashed across America's TVs fundamentally altered the course of our history. We only grow and evolve in the face of tragedy and oppression, and no matter what you have to demo before you rebuild. We are once again at the point where repatching patched patches won't make it, time to demo again. I long to see that next iteration of America, the churning and social unrest can and will lead us to some better version of ourselves, and people will settle in and get fat and complacent, and in a hundred years we'll be back here again. It is the nature of the species. Be upset, be unhappy, get angry because getting angry moves people, forces them to act. Immense, tectonic forces are building up, glacially slow, tiny increments you can barely see much less measure, but building nonetheless. When the dam breaks this time it is gonna be cosmic, beyond previous eruptions, but there is no stopping it, avoiding it, hiding from it. All we can do is hop on and ride that wave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsmarydu Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 Citizens United screwed us royally because we can't see how our candidates operate ON A BUDGET. (And I was gonna say what Burgold did, CU is what got us here. ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sinister Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 7 hours ago, Rdskns2000 said: Dems botched this. Says someone who didn't even vote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llevron Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 There are going to have to be alot of rule changes to save this country from itself. If Dems have the balls, they would use these knew precedents to do exactly that. Election interference for one party could easily become the end of the electoral college for another. And then voting for all citizens. And then a national holiday for voting. That right there ends the run for Republicans on the presidential level by itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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