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2020 Comprehensive Draft Thread


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2 hours ago, volsmet said:

Rare to see shots taken at Sam Pittman. 

 

Maybe it's on the players and not him, and they're just not as good as the hype.  But I'm skeptical about that.  Which one of these high 4 and 5 star recruits are coming out to where you can say they got significantly better?  I feel like their performances should be far more consistent and dominant, and stuff like Thomas's footwork should be much better if he were getting great coaching.  Wilson doesn't look like he's been coached at all.

 

Georgia pretty much did less with more than anyone else the past two years.  Reminds me of how LSU used to be under Les Miles.  One of the largest collections of OL talent you're probably ever going to get at one time on a college depth chart, and they weren't that great.  Give that same group of players to Mario Cristobal and he probably puts six of them in the first round over 2020 and 2021.

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3 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

Yeah, I mean its a new regime so certainly we could see some roster turnover. But if we plan to go FS starter in free agency, we would then have 2 high-end, high-paid starters. So just not sure it makes a ton of sense to then turn around and draft a 3rd or 4th round safety, unless that safety is going to be utilized at LB in some formations. Because I think Everett, Apke and Nicholson are solid depth. ANd I do think we should draft another DB/S type, just think 5th and later would fit the makeup of the rostr a little better.

 

I am more of a BPA. I do like the idea of looking at FAs for FS. But I also think if you see a guy that can make your team better then draft him. 

 

But we will see. Maybe they go with 6 this year. It will be interesting. 

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1 minute ago, goskins10 said:

 

I am more of a BPA. I do like the idea of looking at FAs for FS. But I also think if you see a guy that can make your team better then draft him. 

 

But we will see. Maybe they go with 6 this year. It will be interesting. 

Yeah, and free agency discussion is a separate issue. We may value the DBs a bit more if we plan to do a lot of 4 and 5 man rushes this year. So the more the merrier, but if you're asking Apke and Nicholson to be the 3rd safety on the field rather than starting FS, they may produce a bit more. Book is still out on Apke and he certainly has the speed this coaching staff desires.

 

I too am for BPA, but unless we trade off #2 and can get some picks (which I am against, unless it's moving to #3 somehow and getting Chase), then i just think our 3/4/4 could go to positions of greater "need" and still be BPA ... TE, WR, OL, LB, etc.

 

Definitely add CB and FS to that list, though, should we go in another direction in free agency.

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Little mock-offseason:

Re-Sign:

G Ereck Flowers - 4y - $24 million

G Brandon Scherff - 5y - $60 million

 

FA Signings:

CB James Bradberry - 5y - $60 million

FS Anthony Harris - 5y - $45 million

TE Austin Hooper - 5y - $45 million

 

Draft:

1.2: Chase Young, Edge Ohio State

3.11: Van Jefferson, WR Florida

4.2: Saadiq Charles, OT LSU

4.16: Thaddeus Moss, TE LSU

4.38: Logan Wilson, LB Wyoming

5.2: Jeremy Chinn, S So. Illinois

7.2: Parnell Motley, CB Oklahoma

7.15: Pete Guerriero, RB Monmouth

 

Traded off 3.2 to add a 4th. Also had about $20-30m left in cap space, although FanSpeak mock off-season definitely dilutes the 1st year cap hit on free agents and re-signs. That's a pretty aggressive off-season from a re-signing and free agency perspective, but I think it's doable with our cap space. I cut Norman and Reed and got to about $64 million in starting cap space.

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1 hour ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

We historically keep 5 safeties.

 

Locks: Collins

Likely: Everett, Apke, Nicholson

 

If we add a player in FA to start at FS, which I think will be a priority of this front-office ... hard to see us spending anything higher than a 4th or 5th on a safety. I am not saying that you pass on BPA if there's one there you think can make an impact. Especially if there's a guy that can lineup at both LB and Safety ... but not sure its a positon we target in the 3rd. That tends to be "starter territory" and presumably you'll have a starter from FA at FS to pair with Collins.

 

Of course, should we choose NOT to address FS in free agency, I think FS becomes a need.

 

I feel you and in nearly every mock I've ran I'm choosing either a 2nd round value CB, WR, or OL slipping into the top of the third that's BPA.

 

That only really changes when I'm considering someone with a playmaker mentality like Antoine Winfield Jr. or with multi-positional value like Kyle Dugger who was the QB of his defense and can play Safety and LB and my other picks haven't dropped like I want. Even then, it's possible to trade down a bit and still get him, at least before the combine raises his stock even more.

I've seen guys like Kvon regularly picked in the 4th round (sometimes KD falls there too, but less so after the senior bowl) and Julian Blackmon and Khaleke from the 5th to even early 7th.

 

Guys like KD and Kvon also have high football IQ's which I give extra weight in my evaluations and Kvon is also multi-positional like KD, but in a different way. It's just that KD is taller, offers more in run support, and can possibly run a 4.3 40.

I want our DB's to have speed, be able to play multiple positions, and have high football IQ's so we can do away with these "communication" issues, better disguise our coverage, and have a greater diversity of defensive combinations we can field and tailor to every situation.

 

 

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2 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

Maybe it's on the players and not him, and they're just not as good as the hype.  But I'm skeptical about that.  Which one of these high 4 and 5 star recruits are coming out to where you can say they got significantly better?  I feel like their performances should be far more consistent and dominant, and stuff like Thomas's footwork should be much better if he were getting great coaching.  Wilson doesn't look like he's been coached at all.

 

Georgia pretty much did less with more than anyone else the past two years.  Reminds me of how LSU used to be under Les Miles.  One of the largest collections of OL talent you're probably ever going to get at one time on a college depth chart, and they weren't that great.  Give that same group of players to Mario Cristobal and he probably puts six of them in the first round over 2020 and 2021.


He seemed to do good job at Arkansas, but he’s really always been considered a tier 1 recruiter which is probably why he’s always been in college, or so I believe is the case. 🤔 He took a Dan Skipper commitment from UT to Ark & I can’t forgive him for it.

 

2 hours ago, goskins10 said:

 

I am more of a BPA. I do like the idea of looking at FAs for FS. But I also think if you see a guy that can make your team better then draft him. 

 

But we will see. Maybe they go with 6 this year. It will be interesting. 


BPA all day.

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1 hour ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

Little mock-offseason:

Re-Sign:

G Ereck Flowers - 4y - $24 million

G Brandon Scherff - 5y - $60 million

 

FA Signings:

CB James Bradberry - 5y - $60 million

FS Anthony Harris - 5y - $45 million

TE Austin Hooper - 5y - $45 million

 

Draft:

1.2: Chase Young, Edge Ohio State

3.11: Van Jefferson, WR Florida

4.2: Saadiq Charles, OT LSU

4.16: Thaddeus Moss, TE LSU

4.38: Logan Wilson, LB Wyoming

5.2: Jeremy Chinn, S So. Illinois

7.2: Parnell Motley, CB Oklahoma

7.15: Pete Guerriero, RB Monmouth

 

Traded off 3.2 to add a 4th. Also had about $20-30m left in cap space, although FanSpeak mock off-season definitely dilutes the 1st year cap hit on free agents and re-signs. That's a pretty aggressive off-season from a re-signing and free agency perspective, but I think it's doable with our cap space. I cut Norman and Reed and got to about $64 million in starting cap space.

Hasn't Sherff's representative's already turned down 14m average yearly pay?, Also what you doing with Trent Williams?. 

 

HTTR 

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This is the toy that I want to add to the defense next year. I think he is likely to be available in our draft range. 
 

Parsons’ playing speed looks ridiculous. Watching him run past his teammates to make a tackle is like watching an adult on the field with kids. He doesn’t look 6’3” and 245 pounds though, as advertised. He looks more 6’2” and 230. 
 

Plug him in at WILL and our team speed would be massively upgraded. 

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Anyone here with a take on South Carolina WR Bryan Edwards? He’s got his fair share of supporters in the draft community but I have yet to look at him at all myself. Break out age enthusiasts will like the guy — he’s got attributes but do those attributes combine to make him a top 100 guy? 4th/5th? 
 


 

 

28 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

 

This is the toy that I want to add to the defense next year. I think he is likely to be available in our draft range. 
 

Parsons’ playing speed looks ridiculous. Watching him run past his teammates to make a tackle is like watching an adult on the field with kids. He doesn’t look 6’3” and 245 pounds though, as advertised. He looks more 6’2” and 230. 
 

Plug him in at WILL and our team speed would be massively upgraded. 

 

Watching PSU it’s all about #1 on offense & #11 on defense. I’m taking Kahlee Hamler every day of the week & moving up to do so if necessary.

 


 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, goskins10 said:

 

I am more of a BPA. I do like the idea of looking at FAs for FS. But I also think if you see a guy that can make your team better then draft him. 

 

But we will see. Maybe they go with 6 this year. It will be interesting. 

Here's how I see safety....if the d-line is loaded, I have no problem investing on another above average free safety to go with Landon and I have no problem drafting another safety in the later rounds to challenge Apke. I also like that Reeves kid we had but I'm not sure we even still have him on the roster? If we do trade out of #2, which I doubt, I'd love to grab Delpit if he's a fit at free safety...what a great combo that could be back there. 

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Good stuff tonight Volsmet. 

 

I can't help but watch this,

 

 

and this, 

 

 

 

and think that Josh Uche would be light years better than anyone we currently have to play SAM. Look at the closing speed in the 1st video. And we know he can rush the passer. Playing SAM behind Chase Young and Montez Sweat could be a really good fit. Uche Measured 6'1" and 241 pounds at the senior bowl, which is slightly less thna optimal as an edge rusher and could help him fall a bit. 

 

https://www.mlive.com/wolverines/2020/01/michigans-josh-uche-helps-his-nfl-draft-stock-at-senior-bowl.html

 

At Michigan, he played the “SAM” linebacker position, a hybrid that emphasized rushing the passer. Expect that to be Uche’s primary role in the NFL, wherever he lands. He led Michigan in sacks each of the last two seasons and was given additional responsibilities in 2019, leading to 8 1/2 sacks, 11 tackles for loss and eight quarterback hurries.

 

“Uche has been a prospect sparking conversation over the last month, and that only continued in Mobile,” wrote CBS Sports’ Josh Edwards. "He does a great job of covering sideline to sideline. The Florida native got to the quarterback multiple times by showing good bend around the edge. “

 

Can you tell me more about that safety, JR Reed?


I'm with you on Hamler. This team has lacked speed since we let Garcon and Desean go. 

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58 minutes ago, volsmet said:

Anyone here with a take on South Carolina WR Bryan Edwards? He’s got his fair share of supporters in the draft community but I have yet to look at him at all myself. Break out age enthusiasts will like the guy — he’s got attributes but do those attributes combine to make him a top 100 guy? 4th/5th? 
 

 

Honestly he is very underrated,  he is a faster but less physical Alshon Jeffery. Productive SC WRs have somewhat remained that way in the NFL. Rice, Jeffery, Deebo, Pharoh Cooper to an extend. Edwards would be a perfect two to match up with Mclaurin.

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1

CIN.png

Joe Burrow - QB

 

 

School: LSU | Year: Senior (RS)

Burrow will need the scheme fit to be right, but his pinpoint accuracy and elite intangibles are hard to resist.

 

 

PICK

2

WAS.png

Chase Young - Edge

 

 

School: Ohio State | Year: Junior

It's just a no-brainer here. Based upon pure talent and upside, Young is the clear front-runner in my book.

 

 

PICK

3

DET.png

Jeff Okudah - CB

 

 

School: Ohio State | Year: Junior

Easy slot to fill with the Lions needing help opposite Darius Slay and Okudah possessing all the traits Matt Patricia could want.

 

 

PICK

4

NYG.png

Isaiah Simmons - LB

 

 

School: Clemson | Year: Junior (RS)

Rare height, weight, speed and versatility to be deployed in a variety of positions. He's only scratching the surface of his upside.

 

 

PICK

5

MIA.png

Tua Tagovailoa - QB

 

 

School: Alabama | Year: Junior

Obviously the medicals need to check out, but if they do -- race the card up to the podium.

 

 

PICK

6

LAC.png

Justin Herbert - QB

 

 

School: Oregon | Year: Senior

Herbert certainly helped himself during Senior Bowl week, and the Chargers are in desperate need of finding their next QB1.

 

 

PICK

7

CAR.png

Derrick Brown - DT

 

 

School: Auburn | Year: Senior

Brown is one of the draft's most talented players and is a need fit as well in Matt Rhule's first season as head coach.

 

 

PICK

8

ARI.png

Jedrick Wills - OT

 

 

School: Alabama | Year: Junior

Tackle depth in this draft allows the Cardinals an opportunity to let their free agents at the position walk and feel safe about landing a quality OT here.

 

 

PICK

9

JAC.png

Javon Kinlaw - DT

 

 

School: South Carolina | Year: Senior

Defense must be addressed. While CB and LB make sense, Kinlaw's freakish size, strength and Chris Jones-like upside is appealing.

 

 

PICK

10

CLE.png

Tristan Wirfs - OT

 

 

School: Iowa | Year: Junior

It might be tempting to take a receiver here and prepare to move on from Odell Beckham Jr., but receivers can be found outside the top 10 and Wirfs helps protect Baker Mayfield.

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KJ Hamler, I just watched 2 games.  To me he looks like a pure slot guy.   He's a small dude and corners and safeties out-physical him.  He had one play where he was basically thrown down like a rag doll when he was trying to block a dude.

 

He's very very fast or at least he looks fast and he can separate if you give him space (and don't press him).  It looks like he has good hands.  I see some compare him to Marquise Brown.  They do look like they have similar physiques but I recall Marquise has more big plays where he showcased his deep ball tracking skills than I saw from Hamler. 

 

They played him mostly slot in those games, he played a little outside.  He's a willing blocker but he's not a big enough dude to be good at it.  They used him really all around the field, sweeps, screens, crossers, go routes, etc.  He reminds me of Desean in one sense is that the dude has some good double moves and is a nightmare to cover.  I haven't seen enough to say that he has Desean's ball tracking skills. 

 

What I like best about him is he's the type to keep defenses honest and is a explosive play waiting to happen.  What I don't like is he doesn't play IMO bigger than his size.  He's 5 "9, 176 pounds and when you watch him whether its: contested catches, trying to dislodge a tackle or block a dude he looks very much what you'd expect from a dude that size.   Some exceptions to that but on the aggregate that was my impression. 

 

He's already had an ACL surgery.  I have some pause about him with injuries in the NFL.  He looks like a dude who might be injury prone ala Desean.  I like him but I wouldn't use a first rounder on him if it were me, he's not a complete enough receiver to my liking.  2nd rounder to me. 

 

It wouldn't surprise me if he is an electric type highlight player in the NFL but I think you need a coach who knows who to use him and protect him so to speak.  He'd fit great with a team that loves going spread, heavy 4 verticals, etc. -- KC?

 

The play below is fun, showcases his speed and elusiveness. 

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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@volsmet can’t believe PSU left in the clip of Hamler getting knocked out (the play at 2:15)... I mean, geez.  


He’s a stud though running routes and with the ball in his hands.  Tracks the ball well too.  
 

I’m a little leery of having a guy that isn’t a plus blocker across from McLaurin (are we in that boat again where Harmon is brought in on run downs?), but you can scheme around that to some extent, IMO.  

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3 hours ago, volsmet said:

Anyone here with a take on South Carolina WR Bryan Edwards? He’s got his fair share of supporters in the draft community but I have yet to look at him at all myself. Break out age enthusiasts will like the guy — he’s got attributes but do those attributes combine to make him a top 100 guy? 4th/5th? 
 

 

I wouldn't be surprised if he fell into the 6th round like Kelvin Harmon did last year, especially if he can't show he's 100% recovered from that meniscus injury. They're both around the same height and weight. but Edwards is a bit faster I think. He's a plowtruck of a wide reciever and fun to watch. He's making sure that the first man who tries to lay a hit on him goes backwards. They had him playing all over the field and involved in reverses and the screen game and he mostly won off of posts, verts, and hitch routes with body positioning. Wasn't so hot with slants.  His route running needs work and he's not always a hands catcher, but he can be when he wants to. 

 

He relies too much on his natural strength and grown man corners will give him problems if he doesn't work on his technique. And it won't be any trouble for them to stay on him either. He isn't getting separation with his speed.

He pops on the screen when he's involved, but he half asses it when he's not. So when a play unexpectedly comes back to his side of the field, he's already stopped blocking and his man is in on the stop. But, he's got the strength and dog in him to be a decent blocker if you keep him motivated.

 

The draft community has him going anywhere from the 2nd to the 4th, from what I've read.

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37 minutes ago, Fresh8686 said:

 

I wouldn't be surprised if he fell into the 6th round like Kelvin Harmon did last year, especially if he can't show he's 100% recovered from that meniscus injury. They're both around the same height and weight. but Edwards is a bit faster I think. He's a plowtruck of a wide reciever and fun to watch. He's making sure that the first man who tries to lay a hit on him goes backwards. They had him playing all over the field and involved in reverses and the screen game and he mostly won off of posts, verts, and hitch routes with body positioning. Wasn't so hot with slants.  His route running needs work and he's not always a hands catcher, but he can be when he wants to. 

 

He relies too much on his natural strength and grown man corners will give him problems if he doesn't work on his technique. And it won't be any trouble for them to stay on him either. He isn't getting separation with his speed.

He pops on the screen when he's involved, but he half asses it when he's not. So when a play unexpectedly comes back to his side of the field, he's already stopped blocking and his man is in on the stop. But, he's got the strength and dog in him to be a decent blocker if you keep him motivated.

 

The draft community has him going anywhere from the 2nd to the 4th, from what I've read.

Edwards is fast, not sure who you were watching. Definitely faster than Harmon. SC had Edwards returning Punts, he isn't a slow receiver. Not quite Deebo fast but, he is fast.

 

 

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Thoughts on Willie Gay Jr?  PFF has him in their top 100 (75).  He had a game against Alabama in 2018.  
IMV, looks like he has speed to burn and played with abandon.  Held up in coverage (including a zone drop INT)... manned up on Irv Smith at times and mirrored well.  
Wins as a blitzer with speed, but seemed to struggle a bit when guys got their hands on him.  OTOH, I expected him to have big trouble getting off blocks vs the run game, but he disengaged hands or spun away from leverage at times.  Not a thumper by any means though.  Good tackler though, and productive - getting sacks and turnovers. 

 

Worried about how much of a knucklehead he might be though - academic issues, teams rules violation suspension, and then ejected his first game back (1st foul on his first play, second foul came right after coach told his guys to maintain composure).  
 

 

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30 minutes ago, Skins199021 said:

Edwards is fast, not sure who you were watching. Definitely faster than Harmon. SC had Edwards returning Punts, he isn't a slow receiver. Not quite Deebo fast but, he is fast.

 

 

Well, aren’t we saying the same thing? I wrote in my post that he was faster than Harmon. Deebo ran a 4.46 and Harmon ran a 4.6, so Edwards would be somewhere in the middle of that range, depending on his knee. 

 

His Alabama game starts out with a bang, but to me his wins come more from positioning than pure speed. Especially when projecting out to nfl level DB’s. 

 

 

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A college team putting a guy who is listed around 6'3"+ on punt returns generally speaks very well to their overall athleticism (if not speed, specifically). This was an interesting part of both Dez Bryant and Vincent Jackson's athletic profiles, for instance. Usually these jobs go to the smaller, jitterbug types that every college team has--a large, taller prototypical WR1 type body being given this job is a good sign for their functional athleticism, though obviously not a massively important marker on it's own. 

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4 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

He's very very fast or at least he looks fast and he can separate if you give him space (and don't press him).  It looks like he has good hands.  I see some compare him to Marquise Brown.  They do look like they have similar physiques but I recall Marquise has more big plays where he showcased his deep ball tracking skills than I saw from Hamler. 

 

Good post, and my take is the same as yours.  He's tiny like Marquise Brown, but I think he's slower too.  More explosion and acceleration than Brown, but I don't think he has that best of the best top gear where he can just lean back and pull away from everyone else on the field like Brown and Ruggs can.  And I think you're right about Brown's deep ball tracking skills being better, or at least more manifest.

 

I also think you're right about the ideal fit.  Slot verticals is where he puts the fear in you and exposes weak deep zone play.  Giving him a ton of middle zone work is a recipe for getting him hurt though.  And getting nothing in the blocking department from your slot receiver is a bummer.  He's not going to fit some rushing offenses.

 

I can't remember who had the take that Hamler might be a better prospect than Ruggs because of the production, but I strongly disagree with it.  There is a major difference between speed at 5'9 175 and speed at 6'0 190.  Ruggs is faster too.  IMO he's a 4.2X guy and is a John Ross type weapon.  I would draft Ruggs in the first round, but Hamler is a day two pick for me.

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