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2020 Comprehensive Draft Thread


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If true I hope another team will try to jump them and made us an offer. We could then force the Lions to give us at least their second (maybe more) this year to move up.

We could still get CY and get the missing second back, or get multiple firsts and more from the Dolphins.

Edited by FrFan
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18 minutes ago, FrFan said:

If true I hope another team will try to jump them and made us an offer. We could then force the Lions to give us at least their second (maybe more) this year to move up.

We could still get CY and get the missing second back, or get multiple firsts and more from the Dolphins.

Dolphins and LIons in a bidding war for a QB would be perfect....Grab three 1sts from Miami, two this year and one next plus a 2nd next year. Or, grab a 1st (#3) and two 2nd's from Detroit to drop back one spot with assurances they won't take Chase. As another poster suggested, I like the idea of getting a #1 from Miami in 2021 since they're likely to have a top 10 pick next year too. 

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2) Washington Redskins: Chase Young, DE Ohio State

Washington already has enough young cornerstones in place to contend for the best defensive line in football next season. Adding Young to a unit that already includes Jonathan Allen, Matt Ioannidis, Da’Ron Payne, and Montez Sweat would make them downright dominant. Bolstering an already formidable stable of pass rushers will also help to eliminate some of the big plays that plagued the Washington secondary. 

 

-----Putting it like this makes Young seem like a no-brainer pick. If one player can upgrade our entire defense that much then I guess you take him and go grab a beer and enjoy the rest of the night. One other thought, when we take Young, do we start shopping Settle, Kerrigan, and anyone else we have that's expendable on the defensive line to accrue more draft picks? 

 
 
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On 1/25/2020 at 10:31 PM, stevemcqueen1 said:

Different thought:

 

What about playing Landon Collins at MIKE on long downs and running some Tampa 2 then having the corners play man?  Basically just puts Landon in a middle of the field patrol mode reading the middle seams.  Five+ DB personnel group but Landon can still play downhill like an extra linebacker.  I got the idea from watching how the Eagles used Malcolm Jenkins at linebacker alignments.  He plays WILL and MIKE for them as well as deep safety and nickel/flat defender.  We should be doing this with Collins too.  It'd be harder for the QB to read our coverages if we're running three safety groups.

 

I really think that nobody on the defense stands to benefit more from better defensive scheming and coaching and playcalling than Collins.  He has the ability to become the featured player on the defense.  He's entering the prime of his career, he's a former All-Pro player, and he's our best nickel and dimebacker.  He has legitimate ball-hawking ability and he can make plays on the ball and turn it over from a Tampa 2 MIKE position.  On run downs, you either drop him into a box safety spot or move him to the weak side.

 

Between him, SDH, Foster, Anderson, and Holcomb, we've got options at LBer to fit the various packages we'll need to install.  I don't think we're as hard up for linebackers as we've assumed.  Where I think we're really needy is at safety and corner.  If Landon is playing as a linebacker, then we've only got Montae and Apke as playable options at safety.  That is not good enough.  We need at least one more rotation safety of legitimate quality IMO.  Almost all of the good defenses have at least three, if not four that play high snap counts and grade well on PFF.  It's the answer to the shotgun spread.

 

And I think we all realize that we need corners.  But between the poor showing of the Seniors this week and the lack of a second round pick, I'm getting a little pessimistic about our ability to snag a good corner at 66.  I've been doing fanspeak mocks on the various big boards and most of them have nearly all of the good corners going in the first two rounds.

 

Thus I think we're going to need to spend big on secondary players in free agency.  Anthony Harris and Jimmy Ward are both free agents, and would be hugely impactful acquisitions.  Harris would be my top target in FA, and if we could get him to come back to the region + sign Byron Jones or Chris Harris, that would be transformational.  Failing that, Bradley Robey would be a nice target.  And if that didn't work, then I'd also be willing to throw some money at a guy like Mackensie Alexander to see if he can get back to his level of play from 2018.

 

Anthony Harris or Byron Jones + Robey and/or Alexander in FA.  Antoine Winfield Jr at 66?  K'Von Wallace or Julian Blackmon in the fourth or fifth?  Plus maybe a high upside flyer like Josh Nurse late in the class.  We could make huge strides as a secondary off of those moves.

 

This is a lot to quote, but I agree with almost all of it. In reality, nickel defense is the base defense these days. Unless we are playing San Francisco or Tennessee, it seems like a huge advantage to play Collins at LB. I also would hit FA super hard at DB. Maybe even harder than you suggest. Anthony Harris would be such a huge get for us, in terms of generating some turnovers and being able to play a single high safety. I honestly would think about signing Harris and Tre Boston and two CB's. Tre Boston isn't going to be expensive. We could run out platoons of DB's and play a more nebulous back 7 similar to what Baltimore was playing this year. Tons of versatile DB's behind a pressurling DL.  

 

Also, I love Chase Young, but I've been thinking about your trade down proposals. I think that if I could get Okudah and Miami's 1st next year plus another 1st or second this year, I would listen. Was peak Von Miller really more impactful than peak Stephon Gilmore? I'm not so sure the difference is that great. I do think it's harder to find the elite pass rusher and easier to get the CB in FA or via trade, but an enormous package that included Okudah would at least raise my eyebrows. 

 

Also, regarding Trent, who are the teams in the back of the 1st or top of the 2nd that might target a tackle? I would think it might be easier to trade him to a team that missed the early run on OT. It sounds like Josh Jones had a good, but not great week in Mobile, and his arms were on the shorter side at 32 and 1/8 inches. He is shorter, lighter, and has significantly shorter arms than Brandon Scherff and played against lesser competition. There is some risk to picking him in the 1st. In the end, I think all of the Trent Williams conjecture is more of an intellectual exercise. I fully expect him to be back in uniform next year. 

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Even though it looks like a thin RB class. I'd like to find a bigger body on day 3. Well, unless they are going to have a FB this year. Either way, with CT likely being gone. Guice.... who knows if he'll ever be healthy enough. Love with a year off after his injury and a year older for AP. 

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6 minutes ago, @SkinsGoldPants said:

Even though it looks like a thin RB class. I'd like to find a bigger body on day 3. Well, unless they are going to have a FB this year. Either way, with CT likely being gone. Guice.... who knows if he'll ever be healthy enough. Love with a year off after his injury and a year older for AP. 

 

 

Any takers on Zach Moss? PFF loves the guy. Looks explosive. Good contact balance. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, FrFan said:

If true I hope another team will try to jump them and made us an offer. We could then force the Lions to give us at least their second (maybe more) this year to move up.

We could still get CY and get the missing second back, or get multiple firsts and more from the Dolphins.

 

So they're worried about Stafford's health issues but NOT worried about Tua's?  :ols:

 

If they really want a QB maybe it's more likely they'd be in play for a trade back and then taking Herbert as opposed to trading up for Tua. 

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24 minutes ago, @SkinsGoldPants said:

Even though it looks like a thin RB class. I'd like to find a bigger body on day 3. Well, unless they are going to have a FB this year. Either way, with CT likely being gone. Guice.... who knows if he'll ever be healthy enough. Love with a year off after his injury and a year older for AP. 

My only issue with this is we need a 3rd down back (preferably one that can handle some carries - including between the tackles - even if not a full load).  
 

@Anselmheifer I haven’t really watched Moss, but isn’t he supposed to go early?  I’m thinking we have more pressing needs...

 

As to the trade down angle, I think it’s easy to get caught up in the idea, “what if this guys busts when we had a ‘sure thing’ in Young available”?  I get it though - it’s a bit... nebulous when you’re looking at pick numbers rather than actual prospects, ya know?
 

It’s a fair point, to be sure, but if you told me that we could land, say Okudah, Tee Higgins and two more picks (this year and/or next)... sign me up.  
 

My preference though is for Miami to try to move up for Tua, and us to leverage that against Detroit.  We still take Young, and get Detroit’s 2021 1st rounder, or maybe a 2nd or 3rd and 4th this year.  Anything really.  
 

Edit:  @mistertim agreed - weird to see Stafford’s health being touted as a reason to get Tua...

Edited by skinny21
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19 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

So they're worried about Stafford's health issues but NOT worried about Tua's?  :ols:

 

If they really want a QB maybe it's more likely they'd be in play for a trade back and then taking Herbert as opposed to trading up for Tua. 

 

So the reports I've read say that Tua's injury is one that has a chance of a full recovery and not at all the same injury as Bo Jackson's which ended his career.

 

Stafford has a spinal injury. The spine is the most complicated place on the human body that is not easily resolved with surgery.

 

I do agree that it can be complicated replacing an injured guy with an injured guy. 

 

But the cap hit is the other problem with them. They need to find a way to unload Stafford and his salary as he is handicapping the team due to it. Even if Tua was injury prone, he's injury prone on a rookie deal rather than the enormous cap hit Stafford brings (16.3% of the cap last season but it IS down to 10.7% in 2020 per overthecap).

 

You'd have to think they aren't going to pull the trigger on Tua given the lower cap hit next season. But it is something to think about for them at the very least.

Edited by KDawg
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14 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

My only issue with this is we need a 3rd down back (preferably one that can handle some carries - including between the tackles - even if not a full load).  
 

 

 

We need a 1st/2nd down younger back (maybe Love?) and a 3rd down back. AP I'm least worried about.

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24 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

 

@Anselmheifer I haven’t really watched Moss, but isn’t he supposed to go early?  I’m thinking we have more pressing needs...

 

As to the trade down angle, I think it’s easy to get caught up in the idea, “what if this guys busts when we had a ‘sure thing’ in Young available”?  I get it though - it’s a bit... nebulous when you’re looking at pick numbers rather than actual prospects, ya know?
 

It’s a fair point, to be sure, but if you told me that we could land, say Okudah, Tee Higgins and two more picks (this year and/or next)... sign me up.  


I agree about not liking a RB early in this draft. 
 

regarding Chase Young va for instance, Okudah and Higgins, Chase IMHO is safer. It’s tempting to grab the assets, but the miss rate on elite pass rushers has been extraordinarily low. It’s one of the safest choices you can make. 
 

The problem with treading Young for Okudah, thinking you’re getting Stephon Gilmore, is that CB is just less predictable. CJ Henderson might actually wind up being Stephon Gilmore. Or the best CB might come out of the 5th round. 
 

Chase Young is such a safe pick, IMHO. His floor is super high and you might be getting a DPOY caliber player if he reaches his ceiling. It would have to be a great package for me to trade out of that slot. 

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39 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

Any takers on Zach Moss? PFF loves the guy. Looks explosive. Good contact balance

 

 I like him.  Workhorse with excellent balance and vision.  He's got some similarity to Montgomery.  He'd be a big value in the fourth I think.

 

But I think I prefer AJ Dillon a little more.  Dillon isn't fast but he can shock you with his explosiveness.  And the power is tremendous.  Reminds me of Doug Martin a little.  Slower and bigger, but similar build proportions with the massive leg strength.

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13 minutes ago, @SkinsGoldPants said:

 

We need a 1st/2nd down younger back (maybe Love?) and a 3rd down back. AP I'm least worried about.

Or Simply add a FB to our existing stable. The beauty of a FB is they are usually cheap in both salary and draft capital, yet they add a special dimension that has to be accounted for. I think JP Holtz as a TE/FB/HB was a prime candidate and hated to see him lost

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3 minutes ago, bowhunter said:

Or Simply add a FB to our existing stable. The beauty of a FB is they are usually cheap in both salary and draft capital, yet they add a special dimension that has to be accounted for. I think JP Holtz as a TE/FB/HB was a prime candidate and hated to see him lost

 

I totally want a FB. I am a HUGE believer in needing that position. Especially if your OL is as questionable as Washington's. 

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56 minutes ago, @SkinsGoldPants said:

Even though it looks like a thin RB class. I'd like to find a bigger body on day 3. Well, unless they are going to have a FB this year. Either way, with CT likely being gone. Guice.... who knows if he'll ever be healthy enough. Love with a year off after his injury and a year older for AP. 

 

I think it's actually a pretty strong RB class despite Najee Harris and Travis Etienne going back to school.  There are three first round worthy RBs in Dobbins, Swift, and Taylor.  I'd expect at least one of more of them to fall into the second and they'll push good guys down the board.  Cam Akers will probably be available in the third.  Dude was a big time recruit that floundered a bit in the collapse of the FSU program.  There are the two Maryland kids who will probably go far later than their talent puts their value at.  Perine and Edwards-Helaire are interesting options in like round four or five.  Josh Kelly and Zach Moss are starter quality guys who will probably go in three or four.  AJ Dillon is awesome and getting projected late, like round five and six.  That feels like massive value.  Memphis apparently has two good backs.  And I have seen Eno Benjamin projected in like the fifth round, which is big value too.  He's a better player than Aiyuk, who is getting projected in the top 60.  He's just small and plays a less valuable position.  He's as good as Edwards-Helaire though.

 

I'm pretty confident we'll be able to get an unusually good back in the fifth round of we want.

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Breer this morning

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/2020/01/27/super-bowl-liv-49ers-chiefs-kobe-bryant-eli-manning-mmqb?utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=themmqb

The more I think of the Redskins and the second pick in the draft, the more I think of the Niners. Like San Francisco last year, if they keep everyone, Washington will go into April with four former first-round picks on its defensive front (Ryan Kerrigan, Jonathan Allen, Da’Ron Payne, Montez Sweat), which might cause some to think, That’s not a need. And if the Niners had operated like that, maybe they’d have considered passing on Nick Bosa. I know they’re glad they didn’t. Likewise, I’m pretty sure the Redskins would be pleased with what Chase Young would bring to their front, and the effect he’d have on the guys around him.

 

3. Scouts are very much warming up to the tailback class on the horizon. There’s not an Adrian Peterson or a Saquon Barkley, and there were a couple who surprisingly returned to school (Clemson’s Travis Etienne, Alabama’s Najee Harris). But there will likely be value to be had in the second and third rounds, with talents like Ohio State’s JK Dobbins, Georgia’s D’Andre Swift and Wisconsin’s Jonathan Taylor.

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On 1/26/2020 at 1:14 AM, HTTRDynasty said:

Yeah, I posted something similar a few weeks ago in the 4-3 thread (shown below).  I think it would be the best use of our current personnel and Collins would shine in that role.  Would love to have Anthony Harris as one of the deep safeties if we went that route.

 

I think I would go further than you suggest of playing Collins in a weak side role. I think I would use him as a Tampa 2 Mike like Urlacher in second and third and long and play two deep shell.  That would basically give Landon the middle of the field to patrol and use his coverage instincts to bait QBs looking to throw those middle seams to slots and TEs.  Landon has unusually good ballhawking skill for a thumping box safety.  He is the natural solution to our coverage MIKE issue with Holcomb IMO.

 

Anthony Harris seems like a perfect fit for us.  He is exactly the kind of player we need and we've got the money to sign him, and he's from Richmond.  I'd feel ok about a three safety rotation of him, collins, and Apke.  Ideally we'd get one more good player for depth, but it'd be a big start.

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13 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

I think it's actually a pretty strong RB class despite Najee Harris and Travis Etienne going back to school. 

 

I've read takes that there is only 1 true 1st round worthy RB this year.

 

Then when I look at class and projected round.

 

https://walterfootball.com/draft2020RB.php

 

Most sites are like this. 

 

This hasn't been updated in a few weeks with who is staying in school. 

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@stevemcqueen1 If you were looking for a back that is a weapon out of the backfield, but can handle a good amount of carries as well (if need be)... who do you like?

 

@Anselmheifer I hear you man.  As I said, my preference is taking Young and adding a pick (or 2) from Detroit.  Totally fine taking Young straight up too.  
I’m not looking at Okudah as the next Gilmore, rather as a clean corner prospect that should be a good one (maybe very good).  Ditto Higgins at receiver (though we could go any other position, and might prefer to given the receiver depth).  Getting 2 good players (with high ceilings) at arguably higher positions of need, plus additional picks... that’s a lot to pass on.  The ammo to hit multiple positions, the potential ability to trade back again with any of those picks, the idea we could add future picks (playing the long game as well as giving us a shot at Lawrence if we want it)... I just think it’s more suited to team building.  
 

I’ll be honest though... if we weren’t missing our 2nd rounder, or if I knew how FA was going to play out, I might not even consider bypassing Young.  

 

Edit:  @@SkinsGoldPants My impression is that the running back class doesn’t have the elite talent, but is pretty deep.  

Edited by skinny21
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7 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

I think I would go further than you suggest of playing Collins in a weak side role. I think I would use him as a Tampa 2 Mike like Urlacher in second and third and long and play two deep shell.  That would basically give Landon the middle of the field to patrol and use his coverage instincts to bait QBs looking to throw those middle seams to slots and TEs.  Landon has unusually good ballhawking skill for a thumping box safety.  He is the natural solution to our coverage MIKE issue with Holcomb IMO.


Wouldn’t we usually be in Nickel in 2nd and 3rd and long though?  I don’t think I would play Collins at MLB in our base formation. I would be worried about him taking on 2nd level blocks in the run game.  I know Urlacher was a safety in college, but he was 6’4” and had the frame to grow into that MLB role - I believe he was around 260 for most of his NFL career. Collins is only 6’0” 220. If we want Collins at LB in base, I think he could assume the role Mark Barron played on the Rams under Phillips, playing at WLB in base and Nickel LB and Dime LB I’m passing situations. I think he’d excel there and get back to his 2016 DPOY-candidate level of play. 
 

Signing a FS like Harris or Justin Simmons would be essential towards making that work. Tre Boston misses too many tackles for me to feel comfortable with him in a 3 safety rotation. 

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1 hour ago, KDawg said:

 

So the reports I've read say that Tua's injury is one that has a chance of a full recovery and not at all the same injury as Bo Jackson's which ended his career.

 

Stafford has a spinal injury. The spine is the most complicated place on the human body that is not easily resolved with surgery.

 

I do agree that it can be complicated replacing an injured guy with an injured guy. 

 

But the cap hit is the other problem with them. They need to find a way to unload Stafford and his salary as he is handicapping the team due to it. Even if Tua was injury prone, he's injury prone on a rookie deal rather than the enormous cap hit Stafford brings (16.3% of the cap last season but it IS down to 10.7% in 2020 per overthecap).

 

You'd have to think they aren't going to pull the trigger on Tua given the lower cap hit next season. But it is something to think about for them at the very least.

 

I've read that as well, but even if Tua is medically cleared it doesn't necessarily mean he'll ever really be the same guy he was on the field. From what I've read, Staffords injury, while involving a fracture in his back, didn't involve his spine at all and apparently was likely there since last season and he'd simply been playing through pain with it. It wasn't until he got a nasty hit against the Raiders which exacerbated it, that the team doctors were like "nope, no more". He's apparently pretty far along to being fully recovered. They're just two very different situations IMO.

 

One one hand you have a guy who's a proven good NFL QB without an injury history who had one he'd been playing through until the pain was too much and now is taking the time off to heal, and on the other hand you have a college guy who's obviously unproven in the NFL with an injury history and coming off of a serious injury that he'll probably recover from but we still don't know to what extent it will impact his actual play on the field. Especially as he jumps up to the NFL level.

 

I'm not saying they're not interested, but it would simply be a pretty damn risky move. Especially if they were going to try and trade up to 2 for him. 

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1 minute ago, mistertim said:

 

I've read that as well, but even if Tua is medically cleared it doesn't necessarily mean he'll ever really be the same guy he was on the field. From what I've read, Staffords injury, while involving a fracture in his back, didn't involve his spine at all and apparently was likely there since last season and he'd simply been playing through pain with it. It wasn't until he got a nasty hit against the Raiders which exacerbated it, that the team doctors were like "nope, no more". He's apparently pretty far along to being fully recovered. They're just two very different situations IMO.

 

One one hand you have a guy who's a proven good NFL QB without an injury history who had one he'd been playing through until the pain was too much and now is taking the time off to heal, and on the other hand you have a college guy who's obviously unproven in the NFL with an injury history and coming off of a serious injury that he'll probably recover from but we still don't know to what extent it will impact his actual play on the field. Especially as he jumps up to the NFL level.

 

I'm not saying they're not interested, but it would simply be a pretty damn risky move. Especially if they were going to try and trade up to 2 for him. 

 

I agree with everything you said. The only angle you didn't speak on is the cost. Stafford's cost dropping to ~10% of the cap is a good reason to keep him, but cost is a factor in that whole scenario, too. You'd think that they'd know Stafford's medicals before they made a decision, so if they decided to move on from him then you'd have to assume they knew something medically.

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20 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

stevemcqueen1 If you were looking for a back that is a weapon out of the backfield, but can handle a good amount of carries as well (if need be)... who do you like?

 

Antonio Gibson is probably the type you are searching for.  RB/WR hybrid player.  Trey Sermon will be a third down back too because of his pass protections.  Anthony McFarland is a home run hitting change of pace back who I could see being a good receiver for a back.  Should be a weapon in the screen game.

 

As far as Okudah goes, I think he's a better prospect than Gilmore was.  He is Jalen Ramsey good.  He is pretty much an elite prospect and only the Derek Stingley/Patrick Peterson prodigy types are going to grade higher than him.  I think it's fair to consider him the second best non QB in the class after Young.

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39 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

39 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

As far as Okudah goes, I think he's a better prospect than Gilmore was.  He is Jalen Ramsey good.  He is pretty much an elite prospect and only the Derek Stingley/Patrick Peterson prodigy types are going to grade higher than him.  I think it's fair to consider him the second best non QB in the class after Young.

 

I agree with this whole heartedly. Love Okudah. So good in coverage, but also extremely physical against the run. 
 

You also partially made my point about Chase vs Okudah though. When you draft a guy that looks like Myles Garrett in college, you can reasonably expect that he will look Myles Garrett-ish in the pro’s. Corner is more of a crapshoot. Gilmore was taken at 10, but wasn’t even the top corner in his class. Taking the pass rusher at 2 gets you a safer pick, and also a guy that would be harder to find in FA. 
 

Having said that, I don’t think Okudah will miss. I think he’s likely a pro bowl/all pro type guy. 

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