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2020 Comprehensive Draft Thread


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23 minutes ago, Fresh8686 said:

 

 

I agree with everything he posted.  That is exactly what I was thinking about him too, he just said it better and with far more technical explanation and precision.

 

I think it gets to the root of Thomas's one big weakness--he's not flexible.  But the thing is, he's 6'6.  When you are that massive and strong, you don't have to be as flexible to dominate as an OT.  Trent Brown is not flexible.  Are Ramczyk or Mitchell Schwartz really that flexible?  Sometimes you win just by being big.  And Thomas does get low on his run blocks.  He is a proven people-mover who has two years of good run blocking on film.

 

The other thing that people seem to be missing with Thomas when they've been knocking him is his speed.  Ledyard says he was surprised at how nimble he was--that shouldn't be a surprise.  The guy is fast and legitimately explosive.  You can watch him cut off the path of a blitzing slot corner and see the speed is real.  This is a big part of what makes him a significantly better prospect than Wills.  And I think people have been underestimating the difficulty of his assignments compared to the ones the other tackles drew.  He played LT against an elite SEC and OOC slate of games.  He had the toughest match ups of any of the draftable OTs this year and last year.

 

Ledyard's speed to power complaint is also true for the other tackles making the jump to the NFL.  It's a different world and they're all going to struggle with legit speed to power at the next level.  10 year vets struggle with it.  But they're young and they're going to build their bodies and their technique up in the first year or two of their careers.

 

Lastly, it's worth mentioning that I don't think the Georgia kids who play offense are as well coached as the Alabama and Wisconsin and Iowa kids.  Particularly on the offensive line.  That staff is good at recruiting linemen, but they didn't build them up as well as the other top OL schools do with their guys.  These Georgia kids should be better and more consistent from a technique and weight-training/management standpoint than they are because they are blue chippers.  I think the Georgia kids have a lot of untapped upside.

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4 hours ago, KDawg said:

 

It's amusing how frivolously people use it.

 

And what the heck does it mean? Seriously. Prospect? Who cares if they are a generational prospect? There's been plenty of ridiculous prospects that have gone on to do very little. Maybe not ones that are hyped as this unicorn of generational, but good prospects bust and bad prospects flourish sometimes.

 

Why do we have to label these guys? Why can't we just say, "this guy can play"?

 

It's a forum man, we're talking. You like it. I don't. Others don't. Others do. No one is forcing anyone on how they should feel. Feel free to explain it if you wish or move on.

 

I genuinely come here to share knowledge, share and gain others perspectives, and pick other people's brains. I learn something every day... Even if its not direct from someone... The stuff people say here makes me think about things on different scales. 

 

Maybe that's why you come here. Maybe it's not. But it's not an attack on your views... People think differently. I'm cool with that. Makes things more interesting and gives more opportunity for knowledge growth.


My point was that it just doesn’t matter at the end of the day.
 

A small group of people (mostly fans) are calling him generational. Most people I listen to and respect for their draft knowledge are not. Why are we so focused on debating that term instead of the actual player?  His skill-set, his athleticism, etc. Especially when such a small subset of people are using that term. It’s like people are setting up a straw man to attack and use that to justify drafting him or trading back, and it’s all just very strange to me. 
 

But, I didn’t mean this as an attack. I’m just genuinely confused but amused by the whole thing. 
 

Anyway, as you were...

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Okay, last one today. This one using The Draft Network (which doesn't have comp picks).

*Trade 1.2 to Detroit for 1.3, 3.3, 5.3

1.3: Chase Young, Edge Ohio State

3.2: Thaddeus Moss, TE LSU

3.3: K.J. Hill, WR Ohio State

4.2: Saadiq Charles, OT LSU

5.2: Jeremy Chinn, S So. Illinois

5.3: Patrick Taylor, RB Memphis

7.2: Logan Wilson, LB Wyoming

7.15: Binjimen Victor, WR Ohio State

 

I like the mid-round flexibility this trade gives us, should Detroit become enamored with Tua. FWIW, Lions still had a very solid draft, getting Terrell Lewis at 2.3 and CB, S, RB with their picks through Round 5.

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33 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:


My point was that it just doesn’t matter at the end of the day.
 

A small group of people (mostly fans) are calling him generational. Most people I listen to and respect for their draft knowledge are not. Why are we so focused on debating that term instead of the actual player?  
 

But, I didn’t mean this as an attack. I’m just genuinely confused but amused by the whole thing. 
 


Because there’s not much to debate about the player, other than, of course, the ridiculous expectations that some (this is not you at all by the way) are placing on hi shoulders.

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11 minutes ago, KDawg said:


Because there’s not much to debate about the player

 

Let's try to see if we can get that debate started.  What are the flaws you see in his game as a prospect?

 

For me, it's the following:

- Inconsistent pad level.  There are reps where he pops straight up out of his stance at the snap, but he still wins because he's so much better than his competition.  He will have to be more consistent in his pad level to be an elite player at the next level.

- Inconsistent motor when the play is away from him.  I've seen too many plays where he's moving at a light jog when the action is away from him.  Sometimes, his teammates miss tackles and the offensive player picks up a chunk of yards they wouldn't have been able to had Chase been hustling.  It reminds me a bit of Preston Smith during his rookie year before his teammates hounded him for it and he did a complete 180 the next season in that regard.

- Does not posses Von Miller-like bend.  Though he does have good bend, the way he mostly wins around the corner is his insane hip flexibility to get his hips turned around at the top of his route.  I do not believe he has the sort of ankle flexion a Von Miller or Demarcus Ware had.

- Encroachment/Offside penalties.  More of a problem in 2018 than 2019, where he was flagged numerously for trying to time the snap and guessing wrong.

- Not a game-wrecker in the run game like Clowney or Mack.  I think he is going to be a better pass rusher than both of those guys, but I doubt he ever reaches their level against the run.

 

Do you agree, disagree?  What do you believe his flaws are?  Are they correctable (i.e. can they be coached up)?.  

 

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Man there is a good amount of decent OL guys to be had on Day 2 and 3. Some of these guys might go in the second, but not all of them and some will slip further.

Center: Tyler Biadisz, Cesar Ruiz, Lloyd Cushenberry, Keith Ismael

Guard: Netane Muti, Jonah Jackson, Damien Lewis, Calvin Throckmorton (plays OT but better suited to be IOL in NFL), and Ben Bredeson

Tackle: Saahdiq Charles, Ben Bartch (might be better inside), and heard good things about Cameron Clark in the later rounds

Edited by Fresh8686
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4 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

This is interesting. I listened to the PFF Senior Bowl recap and they sounded like they loved liked Troy Pride Jr, out of Notre Dame. 

 

 

MONEY MAKERS

Notre Dame CB Troy Pride Jr.

I’m not sure anyone has risen their draft stock more with their performance this week than the Notre Dame cornerback. In a fairly weak cornerback group here in Mobile, Pride has been the clear cream of the crop. He’s locked down Michael Pittman Jr., James Proche and Quartney Davis on highly impressive reps through the first couple days. His elite speed and smooth hips have him completely unafraid of getting beaten deep. With question marks about his press technique and ability to play the catch point heading into the week, Pride has been fantastic in both.

 

 

 

5'11" 195 pounds and runs a 4.3. Could be an interesting pick. 

 

 

 

I REALLY like Cushenberry. I think he's be a great pick with our 3rd. He would be an upgrade at center and could back up both guard spots. I think we follow the Niners model and try to play great defense and run the ball a lot. 

 

 

 

 

 

As a matter of fact, I think I'd be perfectly happy if we just drafted every LSU offensive lineman. 

 

In all seriousness though, we need to draft interior line. If we are going to have to pay McLaurin, Haskins, and a big time defense, we need to save money somewhere. Just keep drafting interior OL, and back 7 players. 

 

It would be a borderline wet dream for me if we were able to draft Chase Young, Lloyd Cushenberry, and Adam Trautman. All physical football players with a history of production. We would be so much tougher in the trenches and both against the pass and in the passing game. 

 

 

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The 49ers allowed 20 or more points in 8 their last 9 games & 25 or more in 5 of their last 9, including twice v the Cardinals.

 

The Bosa effect 🤨.

 

 

4 minutes ago, Fresh8686 said:

Man there is a good amount of decent OL guys to be had on Day 2 and 3. Some of these guys might go in the second, but not all of them and some will slip further.

Center: Tyler Biadisz, Cesar Ruiz, Lloyd Cushenberry, Keith Ismael

Guard: Netane Muti, Jonah Jackson, Damien Lewis, Calvin Throckmorton (plays OT but better suited to be IOL in NFL), and Ben Bredeson

Tackle: Saahdiq Charles and Ben Bartch (might be better inside)


Nothing is better than watching OL prospects while enjoying a delicious yoo-hoo.

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Choosing the pass-rusher

The Redskins can follow the 49ers in one final way when building their defense -- by choosing the pass-rusher (Chase Young) at No. 2. There's likely more of a market for this year's No. 2 overall pick than a year ago when the 49ers owned it, simply because of the high end quarterbacks involved. Washington could get a haul, but would it be worthwhile?

Take Bosa's impact for example. It wasn't just about his addition, but it helped improve the defense. In 2018, the 49ers ranked 23rd in sacks per pass attempt and were 21st on third downs. When using a four-man rush that season, opposing quarterbacks had a 108.5 passer rating.

With Bosa this season, the 49ers improved in all areas: opposing quarterbacks had an 83.0 passer rating while facing their four-man rush; they were tied for second on third-down percentage and third in sacks per pass attempt, according to ESPN Stats & Information.

 

The Redskins ranked last on third down this past season despite being seventh in sacks per pass attempt, and opposing quarterbacks posted a 100.6 passer rating against the Redskins' four-man rush.

The Redskins have a ways to go before they can compete for Super Bowls, although nobody saw this coming from the 49ers, either. Washington must add weapons offensively, receive consistent quarterback play from Dwayne Haskins and make sure to build a strong line. The Redskins also need to find an offensive identity, as the 49ers have in their third season under Shanahan. They need more help in the secondary and must settle their linebacker spots as they transition to a 4-3 base defense.

There's a long tunnel ahead for Washington. But perhaps it's the 49ers, whose path they were already following in good ways and bad, who showed that there could be light at the end.

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2 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

Lastly, it's worth mentioning that I don't think the Georgia kids who play offense are as well coached as the Alabama and Wisconsin and Iowa kids.  Particularly on the offensive line.  That staff is good at recruiting linemen, but they didn't build them up as well as the other top OL schools do with their guys.  These Georgia kids should be better and more consistent from a technique and weight-training/management standpoint than they are because they are blue chippers.  I think the Georgia kids have a lot of untapped upside.


Rare to see shots taken at Sam Pittman. 

4CAABE00-4376-4589-BC91-438E039DA936.gif

4 hours ago, Renegade7 said:

 

White has 198 sacks in 15 season, Taylor has 133 in 13 seasons.

 

: /

 

 

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41 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

Let's try to see if we can get that debate started.  What are the flaws you see in his game as a prospect?

 

 

 

Oh I like this.

 

-

Inconsistent pad level.  There are reps where he pops straight up out of his stance at the snap, but he still wins because he's so much better than his competition.  He will have to be more consistent in his pad level to be an elite player at the next level.

 

I think this is part of his game. I'd have to really sit and watch but the vibe I got on the plays where he went outright vertical I think he anticipated quick pass. Again, that was a vibe backed up only by after the play moments. But his length allows him to get his hands up, so I am semi curious if this is a reason why.

 

-

Inconsistent motor when the play is away from him.  I've seen too many plays where he's moving at a light jog when the action is away from him.  Sometimes, his teammates miss tackles and the offensive player picks up a chunk of yards they wouldn't have been able to had Chase been hustling.  It reminds me a bit of Preston Smith during his rookie year before his teammates hounded him for it and he did a complete 180 the next season in that regard.

 

Agree here. But I think he does it out of self preservation. I'd be hesitant to harp on this too much because it may wear him out faster and make him less effective in later moments of the game.

 

-

Does not posses Von Miller-like bend.  Though he does have good bend, the way he mostly wins around the corner is his insane hip flexibility to get his hips turned around at the top of his route.  I do not believe he has the sort of ankle flexion a Von Miller or Demarcus Ware had.

 

Agreed. He seems more robotic than them, though I hate to use that term in relation to him because he certainly isn't robotic. But in comparison with those guys I think the term works. I don't think this is something that can be coached from a football perspective. This is developed through training and can likely incrementally improve. But he's close to his ceiling here I think.

 

- Not a game-wrecker in the run game like Clowney or Mack.  I think he is going to be a better pass rusher than both of those guys, but I doubt he ever reaches their level against the run.

 

This is the biggest thing for me in watching his film. And, if we're going to use the term "generational" I don't know that Young can be labeled that given his lack of ability to defend the run like some of the all timers. He holds decent at the POA, but he lacks techniques for block destruction once the OL gets into him. This can be coached, but it takes time. 

 

If someone said, "hey, give me what you think his biggest flaw is" I'd answer his ability to defend against the run. But I think he's pretty good on perimeter stuff as long as the OL doesn't get a reach on him. It's the stuff that hits closer to him that I think he struggles. But because of this post, I now have to go back and watch for the pass anticipation thing and his run defense.

 

Good post!

 

 

16 minutes ago, volsmet said:


Lewis may look good to pff during that rep, but that was ugly.

 

 

It's great he won, but that rush attempt was terrible. Rusher had his feet too close, shoulders turned, weight backwards. 

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Nice, I'm trying to build a pool of Day 2 or Day 3 safeties to focus on. I'm hoping we go hard after a top FS in FA, but we can still use depth.

 

Maybe might slip into the 3rd

Ashtyn Davis, Antoine Winfield Jr., and Kyle Dugger

 

Should be available in the 3rd or later

K'Von Wallace, Julian Blackmon, Khaleke Hudson

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We historically keep 5 safeties.

 

Locks: Collins

Likely: Everett, Apke, Nicholson

 

If we add a player in FA to start at FS, which I think will be a priority of this front-office ... hard to see us spending anything higher than a 4th or 5th on a safety. I am not saying that you pass on BPA if there's one there you think can make an impact. Especially if there's a guy that can lineup at both LB and Safety ... but not sure its a positon we target in the 3rd. That tends to be "starter territory" and presumably you'll have a starter from FA at FS to pair with Collins.

 

Of course, should we choose NOT to address FS in free agency, I think FS becomes a need.

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22 minutes ago, Fresh8686 said:

Nice, I'm trying to build a pool of Day 2 or Day 3 safeties to focus on. I'm hoping we go hard after a top FS in FA, but we can still use depth.

 

Maybe might slip into the 3rd

Ashtyn Davis, Antoine Winfield Jr., and Kyle Dugger

 

Should be available in the 3rd or later

K'Von Wallace, Julian Blackmon, Khaleke Hudson


It’s nice to have that early #3, the difference in the top of 3 & the bottom is often a huge one — I also love getting to go #2 on day 3 of the draft.

 

 

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14 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

We historically keep 5 safeties.

 

Locks: Collins

Likely: Everett, Apke, Nicholson

 

If we add a player in FA to start at FS, which I think will be a priority of this front-office ... hard to see us spending anything higher than a 4th or 5th on a safety. I am not saying that you pass on BPA if there's one there you think can make an impact. Especially if there's a guy that can lineup at both LB and Safety ... but not sure its a positon we target in the 3rd. That tends to be "starter territory" and presumably you'll have a starter from FA at FS to pair with Collins.

 

Of course, should we choose NOT to address FS in free agency, I think FS becomes a need.

 

Not sure I would call anyone a lock - but for sure not Nicholson. I guess Collins is a lock due to contract and he did fine any way. I jsut think Nicholson may have an uphill battle staying on the the team - as well he should. 

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18 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

Not sure I would call anyone a lock - but for sure not Nicholson. I guess Collins is a lock due to contract and he did fine any way. I jsut think Nicholson may have an uphill battle staying on the the team - as well he should. 

Yeah, I mean its a new regime so certainly we could see some roster turnover. But if we plan to go FS starter in free agency, we would then have 2 high-end, high-paid starters. So just not sure it makes a ton of sense to then turn around and draft a 3rd or 4th round safety, unless that safety is going to be utilized at LB in some formations. Because I think Everett, Apke and Nicholson are solid depth. ANd I do think we should draft another DB/S type, just think 5th and later would fit the makeup of the rostr a little better.

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