Welcome to the Redskins Montez Sweat Mississippi St.

[Warhead36]

I'm more angry at Sweat than the loss today. The Cowboys are the better team, I can accept losing. But Sweat's stupidity and selfishness cost us big time today. We had to trot out 3rd and 4th stringers at his position because he insists on "doing his own research." What a grade A moron. I'll say it again: if a team offers a 2nd for him just ship his ass out.

[Captain Wiggles]

Quote

What popped in my head was "Did Sweat infect our D line?" Is he the reason we had to play with our third stringers?

 

Yes and yes.

 

 

 

Edited December 12, 2021 by clietas

[MrJL]

well, if we could get a top player or a couple of high draft picks for him, I might trade him

[duffy]

Lots of talk about Sweat's vaccine status. I remember he, like many others, didn't want to get the shot early on. Did he say something recently about his status or are we just assuming he's still unvaccinated?

 

I read that teams couldn't actually disclose that info:

Quote

Washington announced that it had placed Sweat on the reserve/COVID-19 list but by NFL rules can't disclose whether it was because he tested positive or is an unvaccinated close contact. Washington coach Ron Rivera declined to say how long Sweat would be required to stay on the list.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/32821533/source-washington-football-team-te-logan-thomas-ir-rest-season

 

Reading that, it seems like he could still be unvaccinated or simply tested positive with a breakthrough case. 

 

I just think it kind of sucks how many WFT "fans" on this board are so ready to move on from Sweat (and even Chase) over this and perhaps coupled with a generally down year. I think I've seen enough flashes that I'd like to keep him around longer and see how he develops. 

[Ball Security]

35 minutes ago, duffy said:

Lots of talk about Sweat's vaccine status. I remember he, like many others, didn't want to get the shot early on. Did he say something recently about his status or are we just assuming he's still unvaccinated?

 

I read that teams couldn't actually disclose that info:

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/32821533/source-washington-football-team-te-logan-thomas-ir-rest-season

 

Reading that, it seems like he could still be unvaccinated or simply tested positive with a breakthrough case. 

 

I just think it kind of sucks how many WFT "fans" on this board are so ready to move on from Sweat (and even Chase) over this and perhaps coupled with a generally down year. I think I've seen enough flashes that I'd like to keep him around longer and see how he develops. 

He’s unvaxxed.  The earliest he can join the team is Saturday. The other guys, Toohill, JSW, can practice as soon as they have back to back negative tests.

[method man]

1 hour ago, Ball Security said:

He’s unvaxxed.  The earliest he can join the team is Saturday. The other guys, Toohill, JSW, can practice as soon as they have back to back negative tests.

This is honestly fine. I’d rather have JSW and Toohill providing gap control vs Philly’s rushing attack vs Sweat rushing wide and opening up lanes for Hurts to take off for 20-30 yard chunks

[wit33]

8 minutes ago, method man said:

This is honestly fine. I’d rather have JSW and Toohill providing gap control vs Philly’s rushing attack vs Sweat rushing wide and opening up lanes for Hurts to take off for 20-30 yard chunks

 

 

Its really not though.
 

The pass rush on the edges appears to be severely lacking. The media has spun hammered home this narrative that Sweat and Young were largely responsible for the struggles early. It’s wrong. The back end was an absolute mess/like league worst bad to start the year. 
 

Most would agree the defense started an upward two games previous to Young getting injured and Swest being being out of the line up. 

[lavar1156]

Chase Young is a fraud. He was supposed to be our Micah Parsons.

[FrFan]

4 hours ago, lavar1156 said:

Chase Young is a fraud. He was supposed to be our Micah Parsons.

I won't give up on Chase yet, Jamin Davis was supposed to be our Parsons

https://walterfootball.com/nflhotpress/article/Some-Grade-Jamin-Davis-Over-Micah-Parsons

[KDawg]

1 hour ago, FrFan said:

I won't give up on Chase yet, Jamin Davis was supposed to be our Parsons

https://walterfootball.com/nflhotpress/article/Some-Grade-Jamin-Davis-Over-Micah-Parsons

Jamin Davis was never going to be Parsons. Parsons is an athletic guy with great ability to shed blocks and flies downhill. Davis is more sideline to sideline and more of a true backer. Parsons is a backer that can do multiple things.

[Est.1974]

I will be very surprised if Sweat ever finds a way out of Ron’s doghouse. I bet he’s livid.

[method man]

8 hours ago, wit33 said:

 

 

Its really not though.
 

The pass rush on the edges appears to be severely lacking. The media has spun hammered home this narrative that Sweat and Young were largely responsible for the struggles early. It’s wrong. The back end was an absolute mess/like league worst bad to start the year. 
 

Most would agree the defense started an upward two games previous to Young getting injured and Swest being being out of the line up. 

 

I am saying I am taking disciplined ends who will generate less of a pass rush but maintain strict gap control vs a QB like Hurts who does most of his damage with his legs.

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

8 hours ago, wit33 said:

 

 

Its really not though.
 

The pass rush on the edges appears to be severely lacking. The media has spun hammered home this narrative that Sweat and Young were largely responsible for the struggles early. It’s wrong. The back end was an absolute mess/like league worst bad to start the year. 
 

Most would agree the defense started an upward two games previous to Young getting injured and Swest being being out of the line up. 

 

This isn't some media conspiracy.  That's ridiculous.

 

It's possible to have several things wrong with the defense at the same time.  Sweat and Young were part of the problem.  Not the only problem.  But part of why the defense was playing poorly.

[Darrell Green Fan]

I'm extremely pissed at Montez as well for being so ignorant and selfish. But no way do I want to trade him.  He's not even played 3 full seasons and has already shown at times to be a real difference maker.  You don't find pass rushers so easily and he has that unique skill.  

[method man]

1 hour ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

I will be very surprised if Sweat ever finds a way out of Ron’s doghouse. I bet he’s livid.

 

Sweat is the player likeliest to get traded for a number of reasons. From the outside looking in, it doesn't seem like he and Chase are good influences on one another from the sack bros crap to them choosing where they want to line up. He is also due for an extension after 2022 and my guess is the coaching staff would rather keep Payne. 

 

I can see a cap strapped team that can't afford a Chandler Jones or Von Miller type make the plunge for Sweat and potentially give up a 2nd or 2 3rds. There are a number of ends who would be average starters who will hit the market like Charles Harris and Takk McKinley

Just now, Darrell Green Fan said:

I'm extremely pissed at Montez as well for being so ignorant and selfish. But no way do I want to trade him.  He's not even played 3 full seasons and has already shown at times to be a real difference maker.  You don't find pass rushers so easily and he has that unique skill.  

 

I think he peaks as a 10 sack a season guy. He has excellent straight line speed and good closing speed but doesn't have the bendiness and first step the elite guys have. 

[50yrSKINSfan]

8 hours ago, lavar1156 said:

Chase Young is a fraud. He was supposed to be our Micah Parsons.

Not really a CY fan as I was against us drafting him with the 2nd overall pick but you are not comparing apples to apples. MP is a lb and CY is a de. A lot of MP sacks come because he is unblocked and most come because they use him like the Giants used LT. They move him around until he finds a weak gap and they overload the gap rush and the guy next to MP takes the O lineman leaving MP to get a free pass to the QB. We never seem to try that. They used to compare LT sack stats to our own Dexter Manley and that too was bogus as DM was going up against the other teams best pass protector in their LT all the time from his de position while LT was allowed to free lance. I would like to see CY play behind the LOS a few times per game but I think he may be too heavy and not have the quickness.

[wit33]

31 minutes ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

 

This isn't some media conspiracy.  That's ridiculous.

 

It's possible to have several things wrong with the defense at the same time.  Sweat and Young were part of the problem.  Not the only problem.  But part of why the defense was playing poorly.

 

 

Montez appeared to be having a similar type season that he’s had in his previous to both from my fan view (subjective) and statistically. Coming into this year his arrow was pointing up, this has somehow changed in many fans eyes (previous to him being out for Covid-19). To the point some are suggesting to trade him. 
 

His stock has somehow turned to poor and some media and fans have chosen to lock onto Rivera talking about rush lane discipline as the main reason why. Silly to me. It’s not to say there isn’t truth, but this is something all pass rushers on the edges have to manage. Watch any game and the best will run themselves out of plays consistently in games. It’s not to say they weren’t doing it more than they should/not making enough plays to justify it, but it happens often to edge rushers. 
 

Keep the freaks. Especially those who are productive, available, and well liked. 

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

1 hour ago, wit33 said:

His stock has somehow turned to poor and some media and fans have chosen to lock onto Rivera talking about rush lane discipline as the main reason why. Silly to me. It’s not to say there isn’t truth, but this is something all pass rushers on the edges have to manage. Watch any game and the best will run themselves out of plays consistently in games. It’s not to say they weren’t doing it more than they should/not making enough plays to justify it, but it happens often to edge rushers. 

 

Generally you want to control the pocket, so if there's a planned wide rush, someone can replace that lane or corral a QB that moves into that space.  A 5th blitzer maybe?  A DT stunt?  LB in spy?  However, some star pass rushers are given more freedom, but that's because they produce 1+ sacks a game and serious extra pressure.  Montez's career, including this season, has averaged around 0.5 sacks a game.  So we're dealing with someone that has never produced well enough to merit leeway in going off-scheme to rush the passer.  Then the cherry on top, you can't have both your edges abandon lanes and rush wide.  Which is what happened on too many plays earlier this season.

 

If Montez and Chase are going to try and freelance a bit we have to 'A' hope they develop into star pass rushers and 'B' stagger them so they're not on the field at the same time.  'B' you can accomplish with a very healthy edge rotation, but also might mean we'd have to spend another high pick on a quality talent, which likely means one of Montez/Chase hits free agency anyways.  Or 'B' can be accomplished easily by simply trading away one of Montez or Chase.  The argument for trading is if their value is at their highest right now, and if that value would decline more the fewer years of team control they'd have left.

 

1 hour ago, wit33 said:

Keep the freaks. Especially those who are productive, available, and well liked. 

 

I think you're finding the last bit might be an issue.  As you have mentioned some in the media, fans, coaches have turned on him...which implies he's not as well liked as he could be.

[NickyJ]

Montez Sweat has had 1 good season in 3 years here. Between his mediocre first year and his self-inflicted Covid wounds this season, I think it's perfectly fine to view him as expendable to the team's long term future. I'd have called it insane at the end of last season, but I'd want either Sweat or Young on this team, not both. Young was a great rookie who had a year that I'm willing to write off as a sophomore slump. Covid man has worn out his welcome.

[Voice_of_Reason]

3 hours ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

 

This isn't some media conspiracy.  That's ridiculous.

 

It's possible to have several things wrong with the defense at the same time.  Sweat and Young were part of the problem.  Not the only problem.  But part of why the defense was playing poorly.

It's not just "possible" that there were multiple things wrong with the defense at the same time, it was an absolute FACT that there were multiple things wrong with the defense at the same time.

 

I've posted this in other threads, so I will just summarize: Ron and team completely blew up the secondary and destroyed the chemistry and momentum from last year. Darby and Moreland out, WJIII and St. Juice in.  Fuller moved inside with St. Juice playing outside.  Curl to the bench, Collins in as the starter.  There were some others, but those were the big ones.

 

After the Bye week is when 2 really important things happened:  St. Juice had a concussion, so Fuller moved back outside and Danny Johnson played inside.  And Landon Collins moved to his new "call it whatever you want except LB even though it's really a LB" role. Curl became the starting SS alongside McCain.  Those 2 things really had a HUGE impact on how the secondary played, and they've been really good since.

 

Now, the Tampa game was also the game where Young got hurt, and was the first game without Sweat.  And what you saw was the pass-rush seemed to be a little more coordinated without the two of them.  

 

To me, the question with both of them is simple: can they get over their arrogance and immaturity and live up to their God Given athletic ability, because if they can, the defense can go from "good" to "elite."

 

I don't want to insult somebody's intelligence, really ever, but the comments he made about COVID, after having doctors in the facility discussing the vaccine, were really jarring.  They came off, at best, as un-informed and very immature.  Can he turn it around?  I dunno.  He has the talent to do so. 

 

Young also just comes off as a "good guy" but massively arrogant and somewhat uncoachable.  He reminds me SO much of Lavar.  I have long said Lavar is he most disappointing player of my lifetime.  He should have been our Ray Lewis.  He had THAT kind of talent.  And he was coached by some really qualified, extremely good DCs: Ray Rhodes, Kurt Schottenhiemer, Marvin Lewis and Gregg Williams.  Lavar only got along with 1 of them: Kurt S.  Because he let Lavar do whatever he wanted and they filled in everything else around him.  But if Marvin Lewis (who had JUST coordinated the Raven's 2000 defense) and Gregg Williams, that's on YOU.  

 

And that's kindof where I am with Young at the moment.  He's trending in that direction, which is really unfortunate.  

 

Now, can he rebound and be terrific?  Unquestionably.  Maybe he can.  But he's got to make an attitude change.  

 

I kindof think they should move Montez and keep Young, and maybe splitting the two of them up would be good for both of them from a maturity perspective.  

[Capsman]

Jonathan Allen now.  Montez Sweat’s stupidity is the gift that just keeps on giving.  Get rid of that overrated bum. 

Edited December 13, 2021 by Capsman

[DEASkins]

4 minutes ago, Capsman said:

Jonathan Allen now.  Montez Sweat’s stupidity is the gift that just keeps on giving.  Get rid of that overrated bum. 

If he learns from this and changes than that would be an even better outcome. Almost no reason for professional athletes to not be vaccinated based on the consequences to your team alone

[Capsman]

3 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

It's not just "possible" that there were multiple things wrong with the defense at the same time, it was an absolute FACT that there were multiple things wrong with the defense at the same time.

 

I've posted this in other threads, so I will just summarize: Ron and team completely blew up the secondary and destroyed the chemistry and momentum from last year. Darby and Moreland out, WJIII and St. Juice in.  Fuller moved inside with St. Juice playing outside.  Curl to the bench, Collins in as the starter.  There were some others, but those were the big ones.

 

After the Bye week is when 2 really important things happened:  St. Juice had a concussion, so Fuller moved back outside and Danny Johnson played inside.  And Landon Collins moved to his new "call it whatever you want except LB even though it's really a LB" role. Curl became the starting SS alongside McCain.  Those 2 things really had a HUGE impact on how the secondary played, and they've been really good since.

 

Now, the Tampa game was also the game where Young got hurt, and was the first game without Sweat.  And what you saw was the pass-rush seemed to be a little more coordinated without the two of them.  

 

To me, the question with both of them is simple: can they get over their arrogance and immaturity and live up to their God Given athletic ability, because if they can, the defense can go from "good" to "elite."

 

I don't want to insult somebody's intelligence, really ever, but the comments he made about COVID, after having doctors in the facility discussing the vaccine, were really jarring.  They came off, at best, as un-informed and very immature.  Can he turn it around?  I dunno.  He has the talent to do so. 

 

Young also just comes off as a "good guy" but massively arrogant and somewhat uncoachable.  He reminds me SO much of Lavar.  I have long said Lavar is he most disappointing player of my lifetime.  He should have been our Ray Lewis.  He had THAT kind of talent.  And he was coached by some really qualified, extremely good DCs: Ray Rhodes, Kurt Schottenhiemer, Marvin Lewis and Gregg Williams.  Lavar only got along with 1 of them: Kurt S.  Because he let Lavar do whatever he wanted and they filled in everything else around him.  But if Marvin Lewis (who had JUST coordinated the Raven's 2000 defense) and Gregg Williams, that's on YOU.  

 

And that's kindof where I am with Young at the moment.  He's trending in that direction, which is really unfortunate.  

 

Now, can he rebound and be terrific?  Unquestionably.  Maybe he can.  But he's got to make an attitude change.  

 

I kindof think they should move Montez and keep Young, and maybe splitting the two of them up would be good for both of them from a maturity perspective.  

I really want to know what people have seen from Young to suggest he could be terrific.  Most of the time he’s gotten any pressure on a QB he’s had an open path to the QB or it was some type of broken play.   How often have you seen a Parson’esque shedding of an o-lineman to get to the QB?  Or tightly getting around an o-lineman (versus ending up 5 yards behind the QB)?  Or bull rushing a lineman into his QB?  

 

Forget the sophomore slump, his rookie year was nowhere in the stratosphere of Parsons and he won ROY in a pretty crappy rookie class. Someone convince me, pre-draft hype aside, why he has the tools to be terrific.  We know he’s a workout warrior so it’s not like it’s an issue of getting in better shape.  

[Voice_of_Reason]

4 minutes ago, Capsman said:

I really want to know what people have seen from Young to suggest he could be terrific.  Most of the time he’s gotten any pressure on a QB he’s had an open path to the QB or it was some type of broken play.   How often have you seen a Parson’esque shedding of an o-lineman to get to the QB?  Or tightly getting around an o-lineman (versus ending up 5 yards behind the QB)?  Or bull rushing a lineman into his QB?  

 

Forget the sophomore slump, his rookie year was nowhere in the stratosphere of Parsons and he won ROY in a pretty crappy rookie class. Someone convince me, pre-draft hype aside, why he has the tools to be terrific.  We know he’s a workout warrior so it’s not like it’s an issue of getting in better shape.  

Objectively, he had an outstanding season last year.  If you can't see that, then whatever, that might be the signs of an agenda.  

 

He was also in the middle of having a horrendously disappointing sophomore season before he got hurt.  

 

Parsons is having a better year this year, sure, but he might be putting together a season that rivals LT's rookie season.  That's not just DROY worthy, it's DPOY worthy.  

 

I'm not going to say Chase is better than Parsons, or as good as Parsons.  But if Chase put it all together, he ABSOLUTELY has the physical talent to be as good as any DE in the league and better than most.  With him, it's going to be 100% mental.  Unless he loses a lot of athletic ability due to the injury (which is possible), he has HOF worthy size, speed and athleticism.  

 

For him, it's all in the head.  Can he put it all together?  I have no idea.  Lavar had the same freakish athletic ability, and never could.  Chase might.  He might not.  But if I had to chose one of the two of the DEs to "invest" in to see what we could get out of them, I would choose Chase.  

[Warhead36]

Great now Allen is on the COVID list. Thanks again Monty. Freaking moron. My desire to trade him grows more and more everyday.