WP: Scott Van Pelt on the Redskins: ‘Is anyone at Redskins Park listening?’

[Idaho fan]

21 hours ago, hail2skins said:

Not sure which places you went to the past three seasons, but I can think of three places...….Green Bay, Buffalo, and Dallas...…..that would probably be good bucket-list type places to see the Skins play at.  The first two dependent on when in the season from a weather perspective, of course.

 

For NHL, I went to see the Caps play the Golden Knights at T-Mobile in Vegas in December. That's a pretty cool hockey environment. 

Yeah not bad options but flying from Boise means a long flight to the east.  We have considered Dallas but it will depend on how the skins look before planning that trip.  Dallas seems to be on the rise and the Skins well not so much.

 

agreed on T-mobile, I’ve watched a Knights game there as well.  Also watched a Caps game in DC 2 years ago which was fantastic.   Odd thing is that I never used to be a Caps fan but over time from being a Skins fan for 30 years I started following them and now have Caps gear.   Nice to see at least one DC team consistently relevant.  

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

22 hours ago, TryTheBeal! said:

If the Skins had beaten the Titans the joint would’ve been rowdy and packed...yes or no?

 

I don't think so.

 

The fanbase seemed checked out when the team was overperforming and in first place. I doubt that 50,000 people were going to magically appear a few days after Christmas to watch Josh Johnson attempt to pull another rabbit out of his hat.

 

This malaise goes far deeper than the record.

 

It would damn near take a Super Bowl at this point to bridge this void between the team and the fans.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

2 hours ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

Good points.  I didn't think that the newer stadiums would actually be bigger than those old concrete multi-purpose lifeless stadiums.  

 

I understand why they went for 90k back in the day, they probably figured there'd never be a time like this where there was a declining interest in the Redskins and that they could pack in 90k and still have the waiting list, too.  I agree the sweet spot for a football stadium is 65-75k.  

 

That's what FedEx field was built to be. Snyder squeeze in another 15,000 seats - which is frankly what started this problem in the first place. Doing that made no one happy. It made getting to, into, and home from the stadium a nightmare. He forced entire sections to stand because of the configurations he created. He sold seats behind pillars for full price. He generally made everyone feel like a commodity.

 

What's the line from Rounders? You can shear a sheep many times but skin him only once.

[Stadium-Armory]

19 hours ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

Could be all part of the conspiracy.

The league and the media, etc all despise Snyder because he's so adamant about the name.

So all the refs are paid to make calls against the Skins, making it impossible for them to succeed. So they fail, as a result.

Which opens the door for them to door what they've been longing for ; lambaste and assail them for more reasons and football reasons.

Mission accomplished.

 

Van Pelt is a known Skins fan.  Born in Md, went to Sherwood High, then went to Maryland.

[Renegade7]

27 minutes ago, Stadium-Armory said:

 

Van Pelt is a known Skins fan.  Born in Md, went to Sherwood High, then went to Maryland.

 

If there's anyones opinion at the mothership I respect on this franchise, its him.  I still like Kornhiser, but SVP gives it the seriousness it deserves these days and you can tell it bothers him greatly.

[The Sisko]

 

4 hours ago, Gurgeh said:

Snyder won't give up the franchise unless it somehow impacts his wallet. Even in the sad state we've been brought to, he's still raking in the dollars. In his own head rich equals successful more than any win-loss columns. At some point he may decide that he can make more money by selling up, but until that day arrives we're stuck with him.

C’mon man. You’re selling Snyder short. He’s concerned about more than money. If he sells the team he won’t have “friends” and drinking buds anymore. 😃😃

[gooseneck]

If we got quarterbacks with accurate arms we could have them play "pin the tail on the Allen, and Snyder" at our after the draft 'Winning the offseason Parade" this year

[wunderhill]

1 minute ago, The Sisko said:

 

C’mon man. You’re selling Snyder short. He’s concerned about more than money. If he sells the team he won’t have “friends” and drinking buds anymore. 😃😃

Exactly!

[Redskinscub]

16 hours ago, Sticksboi05 said:

 

So you're saying the Redskins are getting a bad rap and are being unfairly criticized?

Would this have been on the air if we were 11-5 and in the playoffs? I don't think so. There are a lot of things that the team deserves criticism for.   

[NeverSurrender]

14 hours ago, hailmary said:

Kirk just led a far superior team to a record of 8-7-1. So maybe Kirk was the problem.

Kirk is fickle and his new team is finding that out. 

[gooseneck]

5 minutes ago, The Sisko said:

 

C’mon man. You’re selling Snyder short. He’s concerned about more than money. If he sells the team he won’t have “friends” and drinking buds anymore. 😃😃

Maybe his wife could hire him a wino,  to decorate his home

[goskins10]

9 minutes ago, Redskinscub said:

Would this have been on the air if we were 11-5 and in the playoffs? I don't think so. There are a lot of things that the team deserves criticism for.   

 

But the team is NOT 11-5. There are tangible reasons for that - reasons that are pretty obvious to most fans watching the team. I find it interesting that people are Ok to just forgive and forget the last 20+ yrs if they just have that one better than average season. 

 

More importantly, you are completely missing the point SVP was making - or you are choosing to ignore it. It's not just one thing - it's not just one bad season, it's not just one bad free agent move, it's not just one total mishandling of the QB position, it's not just bringing in one person with a very questionable background, it's not just one person - coach or player - that has come here and under performed. There is 20+ ****ing years of it! 

 

Ultimately the team has lost the trust of many long time fans. And they have missed bringing in new fans with their arrogance and shenanigans. And their response? We are smarter than everyone else. It will be Ok once we win. And sure, if they go 11-5 one season, there may be more bodies in seats that season. But if they turn around and have another losing season right after, it will be like the winning season never happened. That's what they and people like you with this - well if they were in the POs it would not be like this - are completely missing. 

 

Right now this is a trash organization. The owner is the worst kind of human garbage. The guy who reports directly to him is just a big a POS. And after 20+ yrs, many fans are just plain tired. Not angry anymore, just plain tired. And that is entirely worse than angry. 

[tshile]

21 minutes ago, Redskinscub said:

Would this have been on the air if we were 11-5 and in the playoffs? I don't think so. There are a lot of things that the team deserves criticism for.   

 

no if snyder got to 11 wins in regular season, something hes never done, people would not be going ape **** about how poorly run the organization is. 

 

11 wins

 

😂

[thebluefood]

20 hours ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

Could be all part of the conspiracy.

The league and the media, etc all despise Snyder because he's so adamant about the name.

So all the refs are paid to make calls against the Skins, making it impossible for them to succeed. So they fail, as a result.

Which opens the door for them to door what they've been longing for ; lambaste and assail them for more reasons and football reasons.

Mission accomplished.

Hooboy, and I thought Dale Gribble was a Cowboys fan. 

 

#PocketSandforJustice

[skinzplay]

He had me at Sears. Man, that is so spot on, there's really nothing more to add. Snyder may not read the Washington Post or follow social media, but those other owners do. I hope they begin to apply some pressure.

[Sticksboi05]

33 minutes ago, Redskinscub said:

Would this have been on the air if we were 11-5 and in the playoffs? I don't think so. There are a lot of things that the team deserves criticism for.   

 

Here's what's so funny about your post. 

 

In the past 27 years, 31 NFL franchises have won at least 11 games in a season. There are 32 NFL franchises. I'll let you put two and two together.

 

That is a ludicrous hypothetical.

[thebluefood]

17 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

If only it was just the losing...

 

 

If it were just losing, I'd still be the hardcore fan I used to be. I can handle losing and I think a lot of fans can, especially dyed-in-the-wool D.C. Sports fans. We know losing. We've been molded by losing. For God's sake, there's a famous musical based around the joke that the only way the original, American League Senators could win a pennant is for someone to make a deal with the devil. 

 

 

And that's not to mention the managerial **** show that was the second American League Senators

 

 

Do people really think this is just about losing? This team has an all-time winning percentage barely over .500. Apart from two, relatively brief "glory eras" between '36-45 (the team was still in Boston that first season) and '71-'92, this team has been consistently mediocre at best. That's only about 30 seasons out of 87. 

[RemoveSnyder]

2 hours ago, Lombardi's_kid_brother said:

It would damn near take a Super Bowl at this point to bridge this void between the team and the fans.

 

Well, *the fans who have morals. There are some fans who will exonerate anything for wins, from mistreatment of women, to the defamation of every last person who is ousted from the organization, the pettiness Dan and Bruce have shown over their careers, the bumble**** ineptitude Dan and Bruce have shown over their careers, to megalomaniacal behaviors of Dan and Bruce in their personal lives, the arrogance they show despite all the aforementioned *(footnote-citation Van Pelt), to the Name (which I refuse to use anymore both in public and here on the board).

 

Unapologetic assholes. 

Dan Snyder and Bruce Allen are bad people, who do bad things. 

 

So, a superbowl wouldn't do it for me, because I'll still know the kind of person Snyder is. To actively support someone like that would be hypocritical of me. To do so would run counter to my personal believes. I'm at odds with Dan and Bruce's beliefs: political, moral and executive decisions *(footnote-citation Boswell). 

 

I'll never be able to cheer again with the optimism I had as a kid. The only person who was able to do that for me was Gibbs, because of the kind of person he is.

 

So, the only way to get that bridge over to me is for Dan and Bruce to flush themselves down the toilet. 

[Redskinscub]

1 hour ago, Sticksboi05 said:

 

Here's what's so funny about your post. 

 

In the past 27 years, 31 NFL franchises have won at least 11 games in a season. There are 32 NFL franchises. I'll let you put two and two together.

 

That is a ludicrous hypothetical.

I will rephrase it for you. Would this be a story on ESPN if we had a winning record this season? My point was that when you are losing, everything is scrutinized by everyone.  

[Sticksboi05]

1 minute ago, Redskinscub said:

I will rephrase it for you. Would this be a story on ESPN if we had a winning record this season? My point was that when you are losing, everything is scrutinized by everyone.  

 

I got your point. I'm saying it makes no sense. That would make sense if we were the Patriots and after 17 years of excellence we went 9-7 and had to read a bunch of lame clickbait about how Brady is done.

 

These are not stories of convenience, we're in the midst of nearly 30 years of mediocrity and embarrassment. There are no hot takes, just massive sample sizes of losing and professional disgraces off the field.

 

You're basically asking, would this be a story on ESPN if we had gone 9-7 after 27 years of futility? Uh, yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.

[goskins10]

6 minutes ago, Redskinscub said:

I will rephrase it for you. Would this be a story on ESPN if we had a winning record this season? My point was that when you are losing, everything is scrutinized by everyone.  

 

With all due respect you can rephrase it all you want. We get the point you are trying to make we just completely disagree. Look at when the team was 10-6 in 2012 and see what local and national media was talking about - yes there were some nice things said about Robert and the team but the nagging history of the team was not just wiped away and forgotten. There was still a lot Redskins bashing done both locally and nationally. 

 

I will finish with this - if Ws is all that matters, then I guess an 11-5 season can make you feel Ok about the team. But anyone with morals and a conscience will not be satisfied with a few wins. They will want to see a cultural change in the organization. 

[RemoveSnyder]

1 hour ago, thebluefood said:

Do people really think this is just about losing? 

 

No. That's being brought up intentionally.  

It's a two pronged assault. 

 

The first is, sorry to bring up the old cliche, a straw-man argument. Yes, this is ES, straw-man is basically a cliche, but well earned here. 

 

There are those posters here who are defending the FO by claiming that the argument of their opposition, all of those people complaining, is really only about wins and losses. Because, according to their logic, once the FO finally lands the mythical unicorn QB and the team starts to win, all the complainers will be silenced. 

 

They say: "Sure everyone is complaining about the stadium, the team name, the way the FO conducts its business, but once the team starts to win, those moral high ground complainers will all be shut up." That's the play here. 

 

The attempt of course is to minimize the argument of your opposition, make their argument as simple, as self serving, as basic as possible, while also calling them hypocrites. Yet all of that rests on hypotheticals, you know, **** that hasn't happened during the entire tenure of Snyder's ownership ... a consistently class, well run organization. 

 

 

 

Of course, that isn't the argument at all from the myriad of "complainers." That's not my argument. It's multiple aspects, it's nuanced. it's multifaceted.

But in short, it's not about wins and losses.

As I've had to repeat my thesis for the entirety of the season, especially so while the team managed to a mirage of a winning record. 

I've been on record with that. 

 

 

 

Culture matters. Identity matters. Who you are as a person matters. 

Eventually as it happens in all of sports, at every level, coaches, players and executives will be judged by their ability or inability to win, their wins and losses. Eventually. But, if you have culture, if you have morals, you're given a certain amount of goodwill currency. 

 

But if you're a deplorable, and you still lose, then no one should give them a quarter. Yet some still do.

 

If you're a bad person in the NFL, as an executive or owner, the only path you can possibly take is to be the ultimate winner, the ultimate dynasty. Anything short of that and the public will undoubtably know of all of your demerits and eventually grow tired of them. 

 

Dan and Bruce get no collateral from me. 

 

 

 

The second part, I guess, are those who actually believe it is about wins and losses. And they only think that way because for them, that is their main belief. So they really only speak for themselves, yet stupidly project that onto everyone else at the same time. Those people are harmless albeit deluded. They just don't know any better. 

 

But wherever those people do exist, they'll eventually be spotted and trotted out there like crash test dummies by the first group of people, in order to muddy the waters. You know, you'll get the "hey here's an average fan, what's your take?" And the deluded wins and losses average fan will start with the same refrain you've always heard, "hey I don't like Dan or Bruce any more than anyone else, I'm no apologist, but if they start to win ... blah, blah, blah."

They'll be easily spotted and marched out there to muddy waters and make it seem like that's the argument. 

 

 

 

It's the first group who are dangerous. 

[Wildbunny]

1 hour ago, skinzplay said:

I hope they begin to apply some pressure. 

Hopefully, they are working with those minority owners that are fed up as well to put Dan away.

 

But that wouldn't solve the problem as the league would be in for a long trial as Dan would probably not leave it to that...

[Skinsinparadise]

I'll post this here since it applies to this thread, too.  Looks like Dan-Bruce might have one of their "special" I presume nostalgic moves cooking up.  Upon listen to the beat reporter gossip, this is the first I heard of anything like this -- aside from multiple people saying they think Bruce might be moved to business operations.    Brewer saying its something they are higher on that the fans will be even though they (Bruce-Dan) think the fans will be.  Sounds a bit like the Doug Williams hire last year.  They said its not a Cooley thing.

 

Brewer on Sheehan's broadcast

 

A.  Says in all his years covering multiple sports teams, Redskins FO is the strangest he's seen

 

B.  Dan Snyder is reclusive, has no sense of his customers/fans.  Bruce's issue is obsession with power and is jealous of anyone who he sees as competition in the building

 

C. If they try to move him (Chris Russell made the same point that you can't trust Bruce in this capacity) to the business operation it won't work because if he's in that building he'd be pushing and will still have Dan's ear-- he goes someone new in that building that supposedly is there to fix Bruce's "mistakes" -- would trigger Bruce's anger and a power hungry moves where he'd try to get in that person's way.

 

D.  He thinks they might indeed move Bruce to the business operations and have someone new in as the team president with name recognition with the fans.   Internally they are more excited about the move than he thinks the public will be.  Sheehan mentioned he's heard the same.

 

E.  He's not sure that this new President will have the power to make a decision on Jay.  There is something holding up to the announcement because its tied to something they are trying to finalize. 

 

F.  Bruce knows how to sing to Dan in the right way -- he's a master of talking to Dan in his language and knows how to work him.  He's willing to spend time with Dan among other things.  He's got a master's degree in Dan Snyder management

 

G. Dan is a really strange dude.  He and Bruce have an awkward chemistry which Dan likes it.  Bruce is a social crutch for Dan

 

[TMK9973]

of COURSE This is about losing!  Because that is what NFL teams are judged on.  If we went 11-5 chances are we wouldn't be having these issues.  But we have these issues, which result in us NOT being able to get to 11 wins.  These arent things that are in a vacuum. 
Its not like we are the only NFL team not to reach 11 wins in the past 27 years and on a unrelated note the front office under Snyder's leadership is a mess.  Its because the front office is such a mess, we are unable to ever get to 11 wins.  

 

Yes -If we can win 11 games and reach playoffs 2 or 3 years in a row, no one would be talking about how bad the front office was, because if we could win 11 games and reach playoffs 2 /3 years in a row our front office probably WOULDN'T be having these issues.