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Budget Fight (Trump Mantle / Border Security Shutdown))

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12 minutes ago, twa said:

 

since you seem interested, SNAP is funded thru February

 

I know it is, I've posted about acknowledging that.  I think that's what both sides are fine with letting this get to to see who caves to their base first, but that's playing with our lives, not theirs.

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said:

 

Er, that's not what the poll says.  3 polls average out at 50% blame Trump and 32% blame Dems.  That is good polling for Dems and not anywhere close to margins of error.  What it says is that Trumps roughly 35% base blames Dems, the rest blame Trump or Congressional Republicans.  

 

 

Democrat voters will be angrier with them if they cave. 

 

 

Path to citizenship for Dreamers has been offered and Trump rejected it.  

 

:ols: at him going for a tax on the extremely wealthy.  Seriously.  

 

 

I get the sense that you haven't been paying attention.  Trump has said he will not sign a bill without wall money.  McConnell will not have a vote on something that Trump hasn't agreed to in advance, so they can't pass anything and have him veto it.  

 

They are within in the margin of the error with the last polls.  Voters always mostly blamed Trump.  Your post said it was increasingly so.  That indicates some significant move in the polls, but the current poll is essentially in the margin of the error of the last one.

 

6 days ago 538 was saying that the blame might starting to shift away from Trump.

 

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-public-blamed-trump-for-the-shutdown-but-that-may-be-changing/

 

(Again based on polls that were within margin of the error.  538 is looking at small wiggles in polls and make some broad declaration about changes.)

 

And what you need to do is keep making it clear that's the case.  That Trump (and the Republican party) cares more about his stupid wall than actually solving problems.  I don't expect Trump to actually approve any of it.  The objective of tying it to other border security measures isn't so that Trump will pass it.  It is to show that Trump doesn't really care about border security.

 

Democratic voters aren't going to vote for Trump anyway and getting a tax increase on the wealthy, making college more affordable, and doing things to fighting climate change aren't caving (even though Trump isn't going to support that anyway).

 

This fight isn't really about Trump.  It is about Senate Republicans.  Do they support Trump or solving problems.  If Senate Republicans want to come out in support of Trump over actually solving problems, that's a win for the Democrats in future Senate races.

Edited by PeterMP

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1 minute ago, PeterMP said:

 

They are within in the margin of the error with the last polls.  Votes always mostly blamed Trump.  Your post said it was increasingly so.  That indicates some significant move in the polls, but the current poll is essentially in the margin of the error of the last one.

 

 

Are they?  Are you sure you aren't just guessing?  Because the Ipsos poll shows a 4% move and a 2% margin of error.

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Someone needs to point out the money being wasted and the cost to our society. He has shut down scientific research etc, and is going to pay multiple millions to people for not working. Idiotic.

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5 minutes ago, RedskinsFan44 said:

Someone needs to point out the money being wasted and the cost to our society. He has shut down scientific research etc, and is going to pay multiple millions to people for not working. Idiotic.

 

The folks who support him holding his breath until he gets what he wants, don't care. 

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1 minute ago, @SkinsGoldPants said:

 

The folks who support him holding his breath until he gets what he wants, don't care. 

 

They will soon enough when starts to hurt them hard.  It just feels like talk to many if them now, i just dont want it to get to that point, i hope it doesn't.

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So let me get back this straight: now that people other than minoroties and young citizens may possibly be affected by this skid mark, we should cave and give 5 -50 billion towards an un-conceived “plan” that would solve a problem caused by the ****er himself to solve a crisis that didn’t exist... And you think that after doing that, he will be respectable or something in return? That somehow there will be negoations that actually benefit the people. Negotiations with a man that has been actively colluding with nations that are destabilizing the world. 

 

**** that. He gets nothing. That 50 billion could provide real help to so many other people in this country, and you think compromising and throwing 50 billion away just to stop a tantrum is a good compromise? These guys will just use that to prove to their base, that they can get what they said done, and run on that in 2020. If it takes people losing paychecks and jobs to do their due diligence and actually try and find out what caused their situation, then so be it. But there are far too many mouth breathers in this country that don’t pay attention or give a **** because none of this suffering directly affects them. 

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4 hours ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

Pelosi doesnt have authority to make such a demand in lue of a shutdown, but president trump does have authority to refuse to sign a spending bio he isn’t satisfied with. 

 

Really?  Congress doesn't have the authority to refuse to pass (or even vote on) spending bills?  

 

Somebody notify Skippy the Turtle.  

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I will say as an Independent, if the Dems cave on this wall crap, they won't be getting my vote.  I'll go third party or vote for myself before I vote for a group that spineless.

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9 hours ago, MisterPinstripe said:

I love that he used forrest instead of forest. It's the little things.

RUN, FORREST, RUN! 

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9 hours ago, MisterPinstripe said:

I love that he used forrest instead of forest. It's the little things.

In fairness, once he learned that money doesn't grow on trees he lost all interest in forests.

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1 hour ago, PleaseBlitz said:

 

Are they?  Are you sure you aren't just guessing?  Because the Ipsos poll shows a 4% move and a 2% margin of error.

 

-2 from that poll, and the margin of error of the previous poll will be ~+/-2% and so +2 from the other poll gets them to the same value (a 4% difference).

 

If there has been any change, it has been very slight.  Certainly, not enough to really move anybody that it is worth making a big deal out of.

Edited by PeterMP

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1 hour ago, Skin'emAlive said:

So let me get back this straight: now that people other than minoroties and young citizens may possibly be affected by this skid mark, we should cave and give 5 -50 billion towards an un-conceived “plan” that would solve a problem caused by the ****er himself to solve a crisis that didn’t exist... And you think that after doing that, he will be respectable or something in return? That somehow there will be negoations that actually benefit the people. Negotiations with a man that has been actively colluding with nations that are destabilizing the world. 

 

**** that. He gets nothing. That 50 billion could provide real help to so many other people in this country, and you think compromising and throwing 50 billion away just to stop a tantrum is a good compromise? These guys will just use that to prove to their base, that they can get what they said done, and run on that in 2020. If it takes people losing paychecks and jobs to do their due diligence and actually try and find out what caused their situation, then so be it. But there are far too many mouth breathers in this country that don’t pay attention or give a **** because none of this suffering directly affects them. 

 

I'm not who you are responding to since you didn't quote, but first, let me say I've been saying 5 billion so you are off by a factor of 10.

 

Second, if you get something you want done when you wouldn't have otherwise, almost by definition that is a good compromise.

 

There is currently no plan in place to do anything about the raising cost college tuition, the increase in income inequality, or climate change.  What I've proposed at least starts you to a solutions to those problems. 

 

You're assuming that they will abandon him in 2020.  As I've already stated, at least currently, his disapproval ratings aren't slipping at all.  He's not going to need 50% of the vote to win in 2020.

1 hour ago, PleaseBlitz said:

 

Okay, I hadn't seen that.  They should keep passing things.

Edited by PeterMP

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1 hour ago, Skin'emAlive said:

. If it takes people losing paychecks and jobs to do their due diligence and actually try and find out what caused their situation, then so be it. But there are far too many mouth breathers in this country that don’t pay attention or give a **** because none of this suffering directly affects them. 

 

Goddammit, man, what about the people that didn't vote for him but still voted? He lost the popular vote, FFS.

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2 hours ago, PleaseBlitz said:

Polling is starting to suggest that voters are increasingly blaming Trump for the shutdown.

 

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/trump-has-lost-ground-in-the-shutdown-blame-game/

 

image.png.7e2db7f5e5784ac3fb90dac88ff0110a.png

 

He won’t last

40 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

I will say as an Independent, if the Dems cave on this wall crap, they won't be getting my vote.  I'll go third party or vote for myself before I vote for a group that spineless.

 

Thats all I need to hear. I hope people like you are making your opinion well known someplace. 

Edited by Llevron

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8 minutes ago, LadySkinsFan said:

Trump doesn't like a woman telling him "No".

Maybe if he paid her $250,000???

That's sort of his thing.

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Peter, there is no winning a compromise with a sociopathic traitor.

 

We are talking about a populace that can be swayed to vote for a particular person/party or not at all by the power of a targeted meme with short one-liner text. The reality is that a compromise prevents these people from seeing the true ramifications of trumps actions. If anything, it gives credence to the ones who voted for him, and exponentially increases the number of apathetic voters. There is nothing outside of a complete organizational upheaval that would be worth bringing a wall to the bargaining table. 

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47 minutes ago, Llevron said:

 

He won’t last

 

Thats all I need to hear. I hope people like you are making your opinion well known someplace. 

Does here count?

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5 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

Does here count?

 

echo much?

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Can Trump or the GOP be trusted to make good on anything though?    How many times have they said one thing and then either changed their minds or never intended to follow through in the first place?

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Can Trump or the GOP be trusted to make good on anything though?    How many times have they said one thing and then either changed their minds or never intended to follow through in the first place?

 

certainly as much as the Dems.......R. Reagan

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3 hours ago, PeterMP said:

 

Okay, but the Dems aren't passing anything either.  The Dems need to keep passing options (other than fund the government) and make Trump and McConnell keep saying no.

 

Oh, I think they now have the ability to at least propose compromises.  

 

Pass a bill with $5B in additional border security, but it's to hire more Border Patrol. 

 

Or what might be even better, hire more immigration courts, and maybe reduce the huge backlog in those courts that are creating so much costs.  Reduce the backlog in the courts, and it might even pay for itself by reducing the incarceration costs.  

 

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