Starting QB 2019???

[Renegade7]

3 hours ago, Nerm said:

 

If the doctors tell him not to expect to come back, he gets his $ and he doesn't have to do anything.  He has no other playing options.  Snyder could maybe stop him from broadcasting or running a charity, but there is no benifits to the Redskins in making a player's life miserable while they pay him what they agreed to in the event of injury.  At that point, do you still think the Redskins should look for support from the NFLPA to get their way?

 

I have no idea what you are talking about here, no one wants that, I'm more focused on the cap hit then anything else, not the money he's owed.  Has this ever happened before where someone had that much guaranteed money to someone who retires before they even get all the money per the contract?  There's gotta be someway to restructure this with someone's help so Alex gets the money and doesn't hit the cap like that if he retires, only an asshole wouldn't want him to see any of it, that's not what this is about.

 

Quote

 I agree with your statement that the team needs to "be very careful" how they approach this as a franchise, and I wouldn't suggest they try to avoid paying what they agreed to in the event of a career ending injury.

 

Yes, think we need a clear distinction here:  I support giving Alex the guaranteed money owed if he retires, we should try to limit the hit against the cap as much as possible, don't just sit on our hands and eat that dead cap money, killing our franchise for the next two years.

[Sandy Monk]

2 hours ago, Renegade7 said:

killing our franchise for the next two years.

 

Have to go with a cheap option to counter-balance the hit. I really hope McCoy can step up and look competent minus an extra wtf? throw here or there. Doesn't he have some out-clause in his contract if he plays well or plays enough? I would think he would likely want to stay in DC if he feels he will be the likely QB1 and if Jay stays. 

 

Colt counts just 3.5 against the cap next yr. Draft a day 2 quarterback to develop behind him, and hope for the best. Get another cheap guy to develop at QB3, and the overall cap cost for all QBs would be around 25 mil. Still cheaper than what some teams are paying their QB1s. It's not ideal, but it seems many didn't expect Smith to do well enough in DC regardless of health. So once that contract was extended, the two years were "killed" anyway? 

 

I don't think there's a way out of that dead cap hit, unless there was some conduct detrimental to the team caveat, and Smith's a boyscout. 

[Skinsinparadise]

9 minutes ago, Sandy Monk said:

 

Have to go with a cheap option to counter-balance the hit. I really hope McCoy can step up and look competent minus an extra wtf? throw here or there. Doesn't he have some out-clause in his contract if he plays well or plays enough? I would think he would likely want to stay in DC if he feels he will be the likely QB1 and if Jay stays. 

 

Colt counts just 3.5 against the cap next yr. Draft a day 2 quarterback to develop behind him, and hope for the best. Get another cheap guy to develop at QB3, and the overall cap cost for all QBs would be around 25 mil. Still cheaper than what some teams are paying their QB1s. It's not ideal, but it seems many didn't expect Smith to do well enough in DC regardless of health. So once that contract was extended, the two years were "killed" anyway? 

 

I don't think there's a way out of that dead cap hit, unless there was some conduct detrimental to the team caveat, and Smith's a boyscout. 

 

If he stays healthy for the rest of the year he can trigger himself into FA or based on incentives he met as to performance the Redskins can keep him but give him a raise that likely take him to about 5.5 million a year but can go up as high as 7.5 million. 

 

The issue with Colt in the past is the duo issue of him being injury prone (sort of like the rap on Bradford) and playing like a more mobile version of Rex Grossman -- turnover crazy.  And a weak arm that supposedly he's improved upon.  He's have to put both issues to bed I'd gather in the home stretch for the FO to think he's the guy moving forward.

 

Supposedly Jay loves Colt and swears by him but I gather not everyone in the FO agrees.   So it will be an opportunity for Jay to sink or swim maybe even for his job ironically with Colt. 

 

I think if they don't make the playoffs and or Colt struggles and or people aren't showing up to games.  They'd be boxed in to draft a QB albeit its not a draft arguably brimming with prospects.

[Morneblade]

6 hours ago, Renegade7 said:

 

Did you even read the article?  He cut him even though he would've had the right to request some of that SB money back if Romo retired.  It count to the cap because he cut him, we are talking about Alex retiring and limiting that cap hit from the SB owed. 

 

How much if that $5 million Jerry couldve asked back if Romo retired would've counted against the cap is the real question.  What's going to make this interesting is the amount, teams ask for signing bonus money back all the time from retired players, but it's the trams choice whether they so so our not.  Alex hasn't even gotten all the money yet to be talking about making him pay it back.

 

It would absolutely hurt him to retire, but if the doctors tell him not to expect to come back, then what?  Why I keep saying this is unprecedented what's about to go down here and we need to be very careful how we approach this as a franchise.  Next thing you know we'll be a lead story for Lester Holt again if we go straight asshole here.  

 

5 hours ago, Nerm said:

 

If the doctors tell him not to expect to come back, he gets his $ and he doesn't have to do anything.  He has no other playing options.  Snyder could maybe stop him from broadcasting or running a charity, but there is no benifits to the Redskins in making a player's life miserable while they pay him what they agreed to in the event of injury.  At that point, do you still think the Redskins should look for support from the NFLPA to get their way?  I agree with your statement that the team needs to "be very careful" how they approach this as a franchise, and I wouldn't suggest they try to avoid paying what they agreed to in the event of a career ending injury.

 

Renegade, Like I said earlier, I don't even know why we're having this discussion. Your article gives no reason why Smith would want to retire, as he won't get his money. The fact that the guaranteed % on this contract is as high as it is is for a reason. And it's not because Allen is a moron when it comes to contracts, that's the one things he's actually good at.

 

It's because Alex wanted his money. And now, you're suggesting that he doesn't?

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

10 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

The fact that the guaranteed % on this contract is as high as it is is for a reason. And it's not because Allen is a moron when it comes to contracts, that's the one things he's actually good at.

 

It's because Alex wanted his money. And now, you're suggesting that he doesn't?

 

I agree with the underlying message that Alex had a career year and rightfully desired to cash in on it getting as much guaranteed money as he could.

 

However it was moronic to be the highest bidder for his services.  

 

Which is kind of funny considering “wants to be here” was probably the most popular phrase on this forum all offseason.  The same folks saying that would make up stuff like he was this hot commodity with all sorts of options but wanted to play here.  I have no doubt that teams wanted him, but I doubt anyone wanted to pay him 72M guaranteed.

[bowhunter]

Is it possible that a compromise is reached and Smith signs a 4 year guaranteed contract to spread the hit out? Smith gets his money and the cap hit is softened over a longer term? It would still hurt, but maybe be a little less devastating if so.

[OVCChairman]

Alex is going to get paid.  He seems like a stand up guy, but his agent's sole purpose in life is to make his clients as much money as they possibly can.  Even if Alex was to agree to a path that allowed for some financial relief for the Redskins (which lets be honest, he doesn't owe us a thing), his agent will likely want to play this thing out as long as possible looking to get every dime of that $71 mil owed.  The ONLY way I could see us trying to figure it out is to sit down with Alex and his agent NOW and restructure.  The 'projected' cap for next season according to Over The Cap is 190 mil so as it would stand we have around $15 mil in cap space...  OTC has a cool calculator that lets you make some moves and see what it does to your number.  Making Norman and McGee a June 1 cut would move that available cap space number to $30 mil.  Alex is getting $15 mil next season already... see if we can roll an additional $10 mil into next season then add an additional $6 mil signing bonus prorated across the next 3 seasons.  $2 mil per year bumps his dead cap number to $7.4 per for 19, 20, and 21 but it's a lot more manageable. 

 

I dont know if it would even work but it lets us absorb that $16 mil guarantee for 2020 and get out from under it.  It would mean his cap number for next season is $30+ mil which is absurd but I dont know what else we could do.  

[Renegade7]

18 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

 

 

Renegade, Like I said earlier, I don't even know why we're having this discussion. Your article gives no reason why Smith would want to retire, as he won't get his money. The fact that the guaranteed % on this contract is as high as it is is for a reason. And it's not because Allen is a moron when it comes to contracts, that's the one things he's actually good at.

 

It's because Alex wanted his money. And now, you're suggesting that he doesn't?

 

Maybe this discussion is pointless.  I never said that Alex didn't want his money, if that's what you got from that I'm tired of talking to you about it for right now.  Alex may never play another game again and we are not too far from finding out if that's accurate or not.

 

If everyone wants to wait until the actual time table for recovery is announced and what Alex decides to do about it, I'm fine with that.  This is not rocket science, if we can get him his SB money owed while limiting cap hit if he retires, we should.  If this keeps being interpreted as not giving Alex his money, I'm taking a break from this discussion, let y'all cannibalize each other if you want.

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, Renegade7 said:

 

Maybe this discussion is pointless.  I never said that Alex didn't want his money, if that's what you got from that I'm tired of talking to you about it for right now.  Alex may never play another game again and we are not too far from finding out if that's accurate or not.

 

If everyone wants to wait until the actual time table for recovery is announced and what Alex decides to do about it, I'm fine with that.  This is not rocket science, if we can get him his SB money owed while limiting cap hit if he retires, we should.  If this keeps being interpreted as not giving Alex his money, I'm taking a break from this discussion, let y'all cannibalize each other if you want.

 

I know there are a couple of people here who had that actual injury that could speak to it better than me.  But watching it 2nd hand with my son, you likely got to wait a few months to see how it progresses, its sort of a wait and see thing.  Keim actually talked about that some, too.  That is, its tough to tell how it will heel until you give it time to heel.   If he's anything like how my son healed from it, I'd put his chances to play next season at 0%.   But everyone heals differently so impossible to tell in Alex's case.  But personally i am going with the most pessimistic takes -- Glazer-Schefter's take over the optimistic ones Jay-Rapoport. Having said that, I think no one can know for awhile, yet.

[Sandy Monk]

34 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I know there are a couple of people here who had that actual injury that could speak to it better than me.  But watching it 2nd hand with my son, you likely got to wait a few months to see how it progresses, its sort of a wait and see thing.  Keim actually talked about that some, too.  That is, its tough to tell how it will heel until you give it time to heel.   If he's anything like how my son healed from it, I'd put his chances to play next season at 0%.   But everyone heals differently so impossible to tell in Alex's case.  But personally i am going with the most pessimistic takes -- Glazer-Schefter's take over the optimistic ones Jay-Rapoport. Having said that, I think no one can know for awhile, yet.

 

Hope this is right. I don't want to see Alex play football anymore, and for differing reasons, we can probably all agree to that much.

 

I'm ready to see Guice and some new QB lead the charge in 2019. Smith needs to be smart, and cash out already. 

[Unbias]

15 hours ago, OVCChairman said:

 

Disagree with what?  You said he has $16.2 mil reasons to come back... i said basically that whether he comes back or not... hes getting that money 

  

 

I see where we aren't on the same page. It was 16,200,000 reasons why the team would couldn't move on from him, not that his personal financial decision. I was pointing out that his contract handcuffs the team to have him as their starter next year, providing he's health. 

 

Yeah, from Smith's side he's in a good spot. Sure he's hurt, but based on overthecap.com he's made $174M in his career and is due another $15M next season then if he on the roster the 5th day of the 2019 league year Smith's 2020 $16 million salary will also become fully guaranteed. 

 

If his injury carries over into the 2019 season there a good chance that 2020 year just becomes guaranteed by default. 

 

I'm still baffled how that contract happened. After playing hard ball with Kirk for 3 years Bruce Allen just rolled over and it seems he gave him a sweetheart deal. So confusing...

[Skinsinparadise]

2 hours ago, Sandy Monk said:

 

Hope this is right. I don't want to see Alex play football anymore, and for differing reasons, we can probably all agree to that much.

 

I'm ready to see Guice and some new QB lead the charge in 2019. Smith needs to be smart, and cash out already. 

 

As I've posted, I've watched my kid recover form a milder version of what Alex has, same two broken bones but not a compound fracture, and it stinks. It's been 8 months and he's still not running.  It's hard for me imagine that Alex is ready for the season and if he pushes it and he plays, he's likely going to be vulnerable I think next season.  

 

As for Guice, loved him in LSU, my favorite prospect probably in last years draft, I'd hazard a guess that I posed more stuff about him before the draft than anyone.  How he comes back though from an ACL should be interesting - some players bounce back quicker than others.

 

No matter who the QB is, they need to add some speed to the offense.  It's pathetic how this team has gone from having one of the best supporting casts in the league in 2016 to one of the worst.  That's on the FO.

[Skinsinparadise]

It’s not too soon to be concerned about the Redskins’ quarterbacking future

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2018/11/27/its-not-too-soon-be-concerned-about-redskins-quarterbacking-future/?utm_term=.efede54c78af

 

The ceiling for this team is that Colt still becomes a Cinder-fella and takes them to the playoffs. The “basement” is that McCoy looks like what most in the NFL thought he was — a good backup, but nothing more — and that Alex Smith’s injury is at the ugly end of the possible outcomes with (now) a reported estimate that he’ll need 8 to 10 months to return, if he can return at all at anywhere near 100 percent.

That basement scenario is a nightmare — for the next couple of years, as well as the rest of this season.

 

This is a huge issue for the Skins. I do not assume that he will make it back. And if he does, I don’t assume he’ll be 100 percent as mobile (one of his skills) or 100 percent as good. And at 34, Smith didn’t look as good this year as he did last year in Kansas City.

 

Smith’s awful injury, and the probability that McCoy is just a good backup or below-average starter, is the latest version of the enormous dark cloud that always seems to hang over this franchise. Or has for 25 years, anyhow. We’ll need a few more weeks to get a clearer sense of McCoy’s current ability. But it’s not too soon to be concerned. It was fascinating to me to see how many people jumped — in like a minute — from “OMG, Smith is badly hurt” to “But Colt is better anyway.” Must be Stockholm syndrome, or Ashburn syndrome, in this case. I may have fallen into it, too, looking back at Colt’s ’14 work with optimism.

 

...It’s so typical of this Skins era to go from...— three straight 4,000-yard seasons ...— to an older Smith, to a badly injured Smith, to “Should we draft a QB in the first round.”

[bird_1972]

24 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

It’s not too soon to be concerned about the Redskins’ quarterbacking future

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2018/11/27/its-not-too-soon-be-concerned-about-redskins-quarterbacking-future/?utm_term=.efede54c78af

 

Ah ... Boswell is a wise wise man.

[Sandy Monk]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

No matter who the QB is, they need to add some speed to the offense.  It's pathetic how this team has gone from having one of the best supporting casts in the league in 2016 to one of the worst.  That's on the FO.

 

We are in agreement on the lack of supporting cast. I think the FO felt they couldn't address everything, so they gambled on a lot of positives to pan out on player durability. Oops, fail. 

 

I hope the OTs can play better. I hope the IOL can improve. I hope most of the skill players can finally get onto the field again. I hope McCoy's years in the system can make Washington the division Champs and more. I hope the officiating eases up off the game crippling penalties for the Skins. 

 

Maybe it can happen.. and predicting yay or nay doesn't amount to much. I'm now taking the path that many fans did back in September. Expecting the worst, hoping for the best. Getting pretty numb to this 2018 season. Every year, it's like a fun puzzle that gets put together bit by bit. Well, this year's puzzle sure looks about put together, and the best of it not coming out of the NFCE. 

 

 

[volsmet]

12 hours ago, JoggingGod said:

Tuttle? You mean Settle?

 

And no we should not trade a 21 year old who is a valuable part of a position that needs depth.

 

Yes, Settle, I do that far too often. The Vols recruiting both, and nearly landing both, got my head spinning.

 

I never suggested trading him. I did mention he was the best player on the field v Dallas, per snap, & rated him as a top 40 player in the nfl draft. 

 

Thank you, kind sir.

 

[Skinsinparadise]

19 minutes ago, Sandy Monk said:

 

We are in agreement on the lack of supporting cast. I think the FO felt they couldn't address everything, so they gambled on a lot of positives to pan out on player durability. Oops, fail. 

 

 

 I wasn't a fan of letting D. Jax go.  I liked the Richardson signing a year later but he's no D. Jax.  Bruce suggested when Garcon- D.Jax left that they will be missed but much of their production should be replaced by Quick and Pryor.  Talk about getting it wrong.  Doubling down on Lauvao who is injured every year at LG -- another mistake.  Not adding depth to the interior O line -- another mistake.    I don't think its because they couldn't do it all at once but because of blatant mistakes that many here pointed out while they were happening.

 

It's actually not a bad draft to add some speed to the receiver corp -- looking to be pretty deep at WR, a bunch of guys I like, some of whom are burners.

 

19 minutes ago, Sandy Monk said:

I hope most of the skill players can finally get onto the field again.

 

Thompson is the key IMO.  I don't think Crowder is that big of a deal especially if Quinn emerges in the slot.  If I had to pick one thing i am excited about in the last 5 games is Quinn.

 

19 minutes ago, Sandy Monk said:

 

I hope McCoy's years in the system can make Washington the division Champs and more.

 

The Redskins have a favorable schedule to do it.  Don't think McCoy would be leading it though but maybe if Thompson is back.  If they do it I think Peterson and the defense -- both need to rebound.

 

 

[Boss_Hogg]

[Rufus T Firefly]

15 hours ago, JoggingGod said:

Tuttle? You mean Settle?

 

And no we should not trade a 21 year old who is a valuable part of a position that needs depth.

If the scenario he was implying was accurate- Settle could net something big in trade value, and that value could rekey to acquiring the QB of the future- then yes, you do trade him. I'm not saying that I believe that is the case, but it's not completely out of the question, either. But if you did have a chance to take the next Mahomes, Goff, Went, Watson, whomever, you don't pass on that to keep a backup NT.

[Tsailand]

On 11/26/2018 at 12:12 PM, bird_1972 said:

Give Smith all he is entitled to based on the contract. I only care about the cap and the implications for the team.

 

On 11/26/2018 at 12:26 PM, Renegade7 said:

Yes, I'm fine with him getting the money he's owed if he retires and we can limit the cap hit.

 

13 hours ago, Renegade7 said:

I'm more focused on the cap hit then anything else, not the money he's owed. 

 

It's been explained repeatedly on these boards, and not just by me:  Cap Equals Cash

 

 

Every cent of those 71 million guaranteed dollars is going to be paid to Alex Smith, and then every cent is going to count against our cap.  We can spread it out over a few years, but no matter what, we will have $71 million less to spend on players.

 

[Gamebreaker]

Is it safe to say we are probably going to draft a QB high in next year's draft whether Alex's rehab goes well or not. 

[Morneblade]

3 hours ago, Tsailand said:

 

 

 

It's been explained repeatedly on these boards, and not just by me:  Cap Equals Cash

 

 

Every cent of those 71 million guaranteed dollars is going to be paid to Alex Smith, and then every cent is going to count against our cap.  We can spread it out over a few years, but no matter what, we will have $71 million less to spend on players.

 

 

They don't listen. I've tried that too, and to make them realize that Alex has ZERO incentive to cut us a deal by retiring. But they will continue on, trying to find some way, that makes no sense at all as to how we might wiggle out of this deal.

 

13 hours ago, Renegade7 said:

 

Maybe this discussion is pointless.  I never said that Alex didn't want his money, if that's what you got from that I'm tired of talking to you about it for right now.  Alex may never play another game again and we are not too far from finding out if that's accurate or not.

 

If everyone wants to wait until the actual time table for recovery is announced and what Alex decides to do about it, I'm fine with that.  This is not rocket science, if we can get him his SB money owed while limiting cap hit if he retires, we should.  If this keeps being interpreted as not giving Alex his money, I'm taking a break from this discussion, let y'all cannibalize each other if you want.

 

How about this. Until Alex talks about actually retiring, let's not talk about it like it might happen. It's like talking about Snyder selling the team. It's a completely useless endeavor.

 

First, since you keep bringing this up, and used both B. Sanders and C. Johnson. If he retires, he looses some of his money, right? That was the whole thing with both those guys, the team trying to get back guaranteed money when they left the game. So, it Is about trying to get money back that is owed to Alex.

 

Second, Alex looks to have a long recover, and WILL NOT retire during it. He gets paid AND gets free rehab. Only a completely IDIOT would do that, and since it's going to take quite some time, and his 2020 salary will be guaranteed. He's going to be on the team rehabbing well into next year, and might not even be ready to pass a physical for close to a year. Literally the only thing we can do is designate him a June 1st cut and cut him at that time, which helps some with the cap.

 

Third, what kind of huge amount of good will has the team acquired for Alex to throw money away? Or at the very least, have this signing bonus deferred over several years? This isn't like this is the only team he's ever played for. He hasn't even been here a year, and yet, he's supposed to, for no reason at all, give us a huge break? There is no warm and fuzzy Joe Gibbs to just fall in love with here. It's Bruce ****ing Allen.

 

And here is the final thing. If Alex fails his physical, are you going to go to war with the NFLPA over not wanting to pay a player his guaranteed money because we were stupid enough to give a 34 year old QB a big signing bonus and a fat contract with a high % of guaranteed money and he gets hurt? Which is the whole reason for the guaranteed money in the first place? And think you're going to WIN? Seriously, you're going to ask a guy that had his career end, to help a team he hardly played for, and in doing so lost his livelihood, to give money back? That's like buying homeowners insurance, having your home destroyed, and then the insurance company thinking they are not going to have to pay to replace the house. Or that the home owner will give them a break.

 

Really? Because you say it's not about taking money Alex is owed, but you're talking about taking money Alex is owed.

[desertbeagle85]

The more I think about this the more it hurts. This team is screwed with Smith getting hurt. Smith sucks, McCoy sucks and we need to fix other holes on this team. So I don't know what they're going to do now, because now we need a QB. I bet the Skins organization don't even have a clue as what they're going to do. With that being said nothing new there. 

[Veryoldschool]

Alex hurt his leg not his throwing arm.  His leg will heal and maybe he's right as rain next year.  

[TK]

If Smith can't go, get ready for Teddy.