Starting QB 2019???

[goskins10]

2 minutes ago, JSSkinz said:

Thanks for breaking that down, I wonder if we can balance those 2019 and 2020 caps hits, do we have that ability to decide how much of that remaining cap goes to which year?

 

For example, can we split it evenly between 2019 and 2020 or can take a much larger cap penalty in 2019 to limit the penalty in 2020?

 

What I'm not clear on is do they have the ability to get creative on how they take the cap penalty?

 

 

The only flexibility I know of is what I described above - designate him June 1st allowing them to make it $20.4M in 2019 and the rest - $31.2M in 2020. I do not believe they have any other choices, unless they come to an injury settlement. Then who knows. But there is little to no incentive for Alex to take an injury settlement until he is certain of when he can possibly return. 

 

[Rufus T Firefly]

8 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

That's possible but a lot of talk he plays baseball.

That's not a rumor, he's already signed a contract with the A's.

[Skinsinparadise]

Just now, Rufus T Firefly said:

That's not a rumor, he's already signed a contract with the A's.

 

Yep but there was some speculation that somehow that might be broken somehow but ironically today he doubled down that its not happening, he's playing baseball

 

 

 

[Rufus T Firefly]

2 hours ago, OVCChairman said:

 

 

I actually defended the move prior to the injury because of the fact that if he was healthy, we could have released him after next season and been out minimally regarding a cap hit.  The catastrophic injury is about the closest thing to scorched earth as you can come across.  He's generally been a healthy QB in his career, missing extended time early on, but as of late does not appear to be an oft-injured player.  This was a freak accident that in August nobody could have seen coming.  It wasn't a situation like Griff where he had previously blown a knee up and we still picked up his option with injury guarantee.  

Except no we couldn't, because his 2020 salary would be guaranteed.

[Rufus T Firefly]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Yep but there was some speculation that somehow that might be broken somehow but ironically today he doubled down that its not happening, he's playing baseball

 

Yeah, I wasn't trying to suggest he couldn't change his mind. I was clarifying, because the way you said "there was some talk" of him playing baseball could come across as if it was a remote possibility. If anything, it would make more sense to suggest the slight possibility of him not playing baseball.

[OVCChairman]

2 hours ago, Unbias said:

 

I respectfully disagree. The Skins are on the hook for his cap number ($20.4M), which includes the $15M in guaranteed salary. The $16.2M becomes important because if they decide to move on from Smith they would effectively have a $36.6M cap hit for no player on the roster. The $16.2M is the added cap cost of moving on from Smith in 2019, so it probably won't happen.  

 

 

Disagree with what?  You said he has $16.2 mil reasons to come back... i said basically that whether he comes back or not... hes getting that money 

1 hour ago, Rufus T Firefly said:

Except no we couldn't, because his 2020 salary would be guaranteed.

 

 

Youre right, that didnt even click with me til you pointed it out.  

[Wyvern]

I suspect the Skins will have to go with McCoy and [ insert name of mediocre backup QB here ]  in 2019 and seek to make trades with teams like Oakland and/or Arizona to position themselves to get a top-choice QB in the 2020 draft.  (IMHO, there just isn't much decent QB talent available in the 2019 draft.)

 

At this point, the Skins might also test the waters on what high profile, marquee Skins player (in the Kerrgan, Williams, Reed, or Scherff class) they might be able to trade for a 1st round pick in 2020, and then bundle it with their own 2020 1st round to get a pick near the top of the 2020 draft.  

 

But even as I type these words, I must express that I've never had much trust in the Skins front office's ability to identify and draft a "can't miss, franchise QB."  ( The closest one in recent history was Cousins, and he was an after-though due to Shanahan's insistence.)

 

And for a decent mental challenge, just consider what player on the Skins current roster is that desirable that someone would give up a #1 pick to obtain them.  After Allen and Payne, who I consider untouchable, who else?  Swearinger, maybe?  One of the Skins more promising DBs?

 

I'm not dead serious about this, but its something to mull over when folks start talking about how competitive a roster the 2018 Skins have.

 

Sorry to be negative about this -- but the results of the Alex Smith deal really put the Skins behind the eight-ball.

[skinfan2k]

The NFL is built to win with a super cheap QB unless you have an amazing franchise QB (top 7 in NFL).  The redskins paid Alex Smith top dollar and didnt put a good team around him.  This was doomed from the start. 

[Renegade7]

8 hours ago, Morneblade said:

Quick question: Why does anyone think that Smith is going to cut us a deal?

Not at all.  This is going to arbitration at best.

[SkinsFTW]

50 minutes ago, skinfan2k said:

The NFL is built to win with a super cheap QB unless you have an amazing franchise QB (top 7 in NFL).  The redskins paid Alex Smith top dollar and didnt put a good team around him.  This was doomed from the start. 

Exactly, the 2000 Ravens or the 85 Bears would've loved to have some Alex Smith in their lives. The Bears would've won 2 or 3 straight Super Bowls if they had him. But the 2017 Redskins? 

 

Come on man. Bruce or whoever proposed this dumb idea that I even jokingly predicted during the 2017 season needs to be gone, forever.

[bowhunter]

Cutting Norman will most likely be the consequence of Smiths injury. His $14.5m salary in 2019 ($8.5m savings after dead cap penalty) and $12.5m savings in 2020 certainly could help ameliorate Smiths salary. Luckily Stroman, Adonis Alexander, and even Danny Johnson are waiting in the wings. Surely one of them will step up (crosses fingers)

[Morneblade]

1 hour ago, Renegade7 said:

Not at all.  This is going to arbitration at best.

 

I'm not sure how arbitration is even a option.

[Renegade7]

22 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

 

I'm not sure how arbitration is even a option.

Similar to what Lions did when Barry Sanders and Calvin Johnson retired, Redskins would be allowed to pursue some of that money he's owed if he retires.  They didn't retire because of injury, but my understanding is this may be a new precedent.  The money is guaranteed so we don't cut him and take the money from him in case of injury, that's not the same as him getting injured, cutting himself via retiring, and keeping it all.  My biggest thing is the cap hit, not the money, time him the money if he wants to retire and fix the cap hit.  If we're smart we reach out to NFLPA on this, otherwise we will be the villain and pay dearly for it.

[Morneblade]

39 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

Similar to what Lions did when Barry Sanders and Calvin Johnson retired, Redskins would be allowed to pursue some of that money he's owed if he retires.  They didn't retire because of injury, but my understanding is this may be a new precedent.  The money is guaranteed so we don't cut him and take the money from him in case of injury, that's not the same as him getting injured, cutting himself via retiring, and keeping it all.  My biggest thing is the cap hit, not the money, time him the money if he wants to retire and fix the cap hit.  If we're smart we reach out to NFLPA on this, otherwise we will be the villain and pay dearly for it.

 

Chances of Smith retiring for any other reason than failing a physical and being release are Slim and None.

 

 

 

And Slim just left the room.

 

Honestly, the mental gymnastics going on here, trying to find some scenario that gives us back a lot of our cap with Smith is hysterical. I'm not singling you out Renegade, this whole thread is full of it. But the desperation, the whole throwing logic to the wind, is just.........sad.

 

Smith is going to get his money. He isn't cutting us a break. He's not going to retire to help us, and screw himself. He would be a complete moron to do so, and he's not a moron.

 

Right now you (and everyone else looking for a way out) just needs to accept reality. He's getting his money, our cap is shot for the next 2 seasons and there is nothing we can do about it. We just need to learn from this lesson, fire Bruce Allen and move on.

[skins2victory]

I want Gardner Minshew QB Washington State. It will be interesting to see where he will be projected in the draft. He is going to be a stud, and we might be able to land him in the 2nd or 3rd. 

 

[Renegade7]

1 hour ago, Morneblade said:

 

Chances of Smith retiring for any other reason than failing a physical and being release are Slim and None.

 

 

 

And Slim just left the room.

 

Honestly, the mental gymnastics going on here, trying to find some scenario that gives us back a lot of our cap with Smith is hysterical. I'm not singling you out Renegade, this whole thread is full of it. But the desperation, the whole throwing logic to the wind, is just.........sad.

 

Smith is going to get his money. He isn't cutting us a break. He's not going to retire to help us, and screw himself. He would be a complete moron to do so, and he's not a moron.

 

Right now you (and everyone else looking for a way out) just needs to accept reality. He's getting his money, our cap is shot for the next 2 seasons and there is nothing we can do about it. We just need to learn from this lesson, fire Bruce Allen and move on.

 

There's no mental gymnastics here, this a discussion forum, so we're discussing it.  Need to see what happens, and fire Bruce regardless.

[Morneblade]

1 minute ago, Renegade7 said:

 

There's mental gymnastics here, this a discussion forum, so we're discussing it.  Need to see what happens, and fire Bruce regardless.

 

I get that. There is discussing whether or not Colt McCoy is the starter for opening day next year. Feasible, but maybe we strike gold with a low round draft choice, or get another low cost Vet. There are several things that could happen that are not so low in probability that there is no chance of them happening. And then there is Alex Smith retiring to help our cap issues. There is no reason for Alex to do so, even if he decides after his rehab, he's done. And that is extremely unlikely. It's kinda like suggesting we think about our options if Snyder decides to sell the team tomorrow, who do we want as ownership?

 

Because that is just as likely to happen.

[Nerm]

There is no scenario where Alex gets any money from the Redskins and that money does not count against the cap.  Any attempt to do that results in penalties for the team, as it should.  The NFLPA would be all for that in any situation, they would 100% be for players getting money that does not count against the cap.  The players don't want a cap in the first place.   It is the owners that would be against it.  

 

How much money should Dallas get back for Tony Romo retiring?  There is a reason that players ask for $ that is guaranteed for injury, and there is a reason that even very wealthy owners are hesitant to give that in large amounts.

[Renegade7]

30 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

Because that is just as likely to happen.

 

Odds are slim to none, they are, but aren't zero.  I'm going to respond to a different post to show why I'm taking a wait and see approach to this

9 minutes ago, Nerm said:

 

How much money should Dallas get back for Tony Romo retiring?  There is a reason that players ask for $ that is guaranteed for injury, and there is a reason that even very wealthy owners are hesitant to give that in large amounts.

 

So I took a second to read about that and this is what I found:

 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/04/04/tony-romo-says-cowboys-cut-him-to-let-him-keep-bonus-money/

 

Quote

But Romo said on a CBS conference call today that the Cowboys were doing him a different kind of favor by cutting him: Romo said the reason he asked the Cowboys to cut him was so that he wouldn’t be obligated to pay back a portion of his signing bonus. If he had retired, the Cowboys could have forced him to pay back $5 million in previously paid bonus money. Romo says Cowboys owner Jerry Jones was doing him a kindness with the roster transaction

 

This is not over, this is just getting started.

[Nerm]

4 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

This is not over, this is just getting started.

 

Jerry is a very generous owner.  He was willing to give Romo the money, AND take the cap hit for it.  His other choice was to keep Romo as the highest paid player on the team... And have him sit on the bench.  Jerry is very loyal to his players.  Romo wanted to come back and compete for the starting job, when Dallas decided against letting compete for the job, he let Tony go to look at other options.  But every dollar Tony got was applied to the cap.

[Renegade7]

19 minutes ago, Nerm said:

 

.  But every dollar Tony got was applied to the cap.

 

Did you even read the article?  He cut him even though he would've had the right to request some of that SB money back if Romo retired.  It count to the cap because he cut him, we are talking about Alex retiring and limiting that cap hit from the SB owed. 

 

How much if that $5 million Jerry couldve asked back if Romo retired would've counted against the cap is the real question.  What's going to make this interesting is the amount, teams ask for signing bonus money back all the time from retired players, but it's the trams choice whether they so so our not.  Alex hasn't even gotten all the money yet to be talking about making him pay it back.

 

It would absolutely hurt him to retire, but if the doctors tell him not to expect to come back, then what?  Why I keep saying this is unprecedented what's about to go down here and we need to be very careful how we approach this as a franchise.  Next thing you know we'll be a lead story for Lester Holt again if we go straight asshole here.  

[Nerm]

4 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

Did you even read the article?  He cut him even though he would've had the right to request some of that SB money back if Romo retired.  It count to the cap because he cut him, we are talking about Alex retiring and limiting that cap hit from the SB owed. 

 

How much if that $5 million Jerry couldve asked back if Romo retired would've counted against the cap is the real question.  What's going to make this interesting is the amount, teams ask for signing bonus money back all the time from retired players, but it's the trams choice whether they so so our not.  Alex hasn't even gotten all the money yet to be talking about making him pay it back.

 

It would absolutely hurt him to retire, but if the doctors tell him not to expect to come back, then what?  Why I keep saying this is unprecedented what's about to go down here and we need to be very careful how we approach this as a franchise.  Next thing you know we'll be a lead story for Lester Holt again if we go straight asshole here.  

 

If the doctors tell him not to expect to come back, he gets his $ and he doesn't have to do anything.  He has no other playing options.  Snyder could maybe stop him from broadcasting or running a charity, but there is no benifits to the Redskins in making a player's life miserable while they pay him what they agreed to in the event of injury.  At that point, do you still think the Redskins should look for support from the NFLPA to get their way?  I agree with your statement that the team needs to "be very careful" how they approach this as a franchise, and I wouldn't suggest they try to avoid paying what they agreed to in the event of a career ending injury.

[volsmet]

6 hours ago, Wyvern said:

I suspect the Skins will have to go with McCoy and [ insert name of mediocre backup QB here ]  in 2019 and seek to make trades with teams like Oakland and/or Arizona to position themselves to get a top-choice QB in the 2020 draft.  (IMHO, there just isn't much decent QB talent available in the 2019 draft.)

 

At this point, the Skins might also test the waters on what high profile, marquee Skins player (in the Kerrgan, Williams, Reed, or Scherff class) they might be able to trade for a 1st round pick in 2020, and then bundle it with their own 2020 1st round to get a pick near the top of the 2020 draft.  

 

But even as I type these words, I must express that I've never had much trust in the Skins front office's ability to identify and draft a "can't miss, franchise QB."  ( The closest one in recent history was Cousins, and he was an after-though due to Shanahan's insistence.)

 

And for a decent mental challenge, just consider what player on the Skins current roster is that desirable that someone would give up a #1 pick to obtain them.  After Allen and Payne, who I consider untouchable, who else?  Swearinger, maybe?  One of the Skins more promising DBs?

 

I'm not dead serious about this, but its something to mull over when folks start talking about how competitive a roster the 2018 Skins have.

 

Sorry to be negative about this -- but the results of the Alex Smith deal really put the Skins behind the eight-ball.

 

We should have traded Trent, we’d have landed a ton for him a year ago, but the ES experts were not on board, less importantly, the Redskins weren’t either. I expect more from the ES crew than I do the Redskins FO.

 

If healthy, Tuttle will be a top 3 trade asset by draft day. His game last Thursday was the most dominant, per snap, by a Washington DT in nearly 3 decades. Tuttle’s transformation should make Tomsula the most valuable position coach in the NFL. 

 

While talking position coaches, if this board is tired of Callahan, the best young OL coach in the country is at NCST. Fire up Redskins 1 and go get him. A protected the QB is the key to happiness. 

 

 

 

[JoggingGod]

29 minutes ago, volsmet said:

 

If healthy, Tuttle will be a top 3 trade asset by draft day. His game last Thursday was the most dominant, per snap, by a Washington DT in nearly 3 decades. Tuttle’s transformation should make Tomsula the most valuable position coach in the NFL. 

Tuttle? You mean Settle?

 

And no we should not trade a 21 year old who is a valuable part of a position that needs depth.

[thebeermonkey]

Draft the best OL and focus on that. If you can build the protection then the running game works and mediocre qbs win.