NoCalMike Posted September 18, 2018 Share Posted September 18, 2018 With Jackson, if you don't put a safety over the top on every single snap you are tempting fate. Our current deep threat, Richardson, he's solid and can get open but he isn't D-Jax 1-step-and-gone quick. He has speed but not game-changing. I would say he is more similar to a softer version of Garcon when he first signed here. He definitely could get open deep in the right situation but he isn't a burner. Garcon was more a complete WR. He moved the chains, he made tough catches, and his run blocking was phenomenal. He was the workhorse WR that the coaches probably wanted Crowder to develop into, or perhaps Ryan Grant. (at the time) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dyst Posted September 18, 2018 Share Posted September 18, 2018 So my thinking on this is that it wouldn’t have mattered in the long run. I think Jackson is a legit deep threat and yes much better than Doctson and Richardson combined. Our offense would have been more exciting with Desean, but in the end, our win/loss record wouldnt have changed much with him. We suck as an organization doesnt matter who is on the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted September 18, 2018 Author Share Posted September 18, 2018 @skins island connection I don't think bringing up Josh Gordon is a hijack, it goes to the point of the thread of failing to try to replace him and what he brings to the offense. Someone like that doesn't need 100 catches to make a difference, we've seen that, he's done that to us, I'm feeling kinda sick knowing we have to play them this year. Ugh, and I just re-confirmed, its in Tampa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CjSuAvE22 Posted September 18, 2018 Share Posted September 18, 2018 If as fans we want to be real, no team can ever be successful by letting their best players walk or get traded it just isn’t possible the teams wheels are close to falling off Allen has basically ran the organization into the ground now they’ve hired some clowns for an “enhanced game day experience” but that’s going to be worse for this team redskins fans are not going to pay 130$ for upper level seats in years previous you could get those same seats for 20 bucks the day of the game the only people willing to buy those seats at those prices are going to be opposing team fans and trust me this Sunday it’s going to be 50/50 Packers to skins fans.... this downfall of our beloved team only turned down harder by letting both garçon and Jackson walk....and then trading for Smith 2 years later... it’s sad but it’s the truth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Csup Posted September 18, 2018 Share Posted September 18, 2018 Pretty much everything the FO does is a mistake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted September 18, 2018 Share Posted September 18, 2018 I knew they couldn't re-sign both WRs. I asked Scot that fall are you keeping at least one of the two, he nodded yes. He didn't tell me which one. Plenty of evidence that Jay wanted D. Jax back, I commented on that on multiple threads. Me, personally, at the time, I wanted D. Jax back, said so plenty of times that off season. He's one of the best deep threats of all time. D. Hall talked about it the other day -- saying having a deep threat just changes everything as for coverage. He also sad D. Jax last year told him he wanted to come back. That was probably because of his lack of chemistry with Winston. On the NFL Network last night they asked D. Jax whether Winston should get his starting job back and his answer was more or less no -- the hot hand QB should keep their job. I recall Bruce's interview after they let Garcon and D. Jax go saying yeah we lost a lot of production but look at all the production we got back with Pryor and Quick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsmania123 Posted September 18, 2018 Share Posted September 18, 2018 I said no. I like DJax and was initially really pissed we got rid of him because I thought for sure Cousin's would use him more more. I am glad to see he has a QB in Fitzpatrick who is willing to throw the long ball to him. The guy can track a ball. It did not happen with Winston, who Jackson is probably ecstatic is out due to suspension. Winston's long ball is unfortunately inconsistent and he has been rather mediocre in his career so far. Fitzpatrick clearly is letting it fly and it is hitting its mark. He may not continue to do that but you see that Jackson has so much talent and can really destroy a secondary if you can hook up with him. If Jackson, for example, had spent his career with the Packers and Rodgers he would be a first round ballet HOF 'er when he retired. A lot of very talented WO's are misused or the tendencies of the QB make it an untenable fit. Honestly Alex Smith would not be going to DJax. He likes the intermediate route runners, like TE"s, screens, etc. It would have been better for this club to have kept Garcon. Sure hands. Runs great routes AND he can block. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobandweave Posted September 18, 2018 Share Posted September 18, 2018 One of many, neither should have left imo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bakedtater1 Posted September 18, 2018 Share Posted September 18, 2018 Sean mc whatever should be our head coach DeSean and Pierre should still be here Kirk should still be our qb and Scotty mcdoogle should be our gm.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoCalMike Posted September 18, 2018 Share Posted September 18, 2018 There's two sides to this coin though. Yes D-Jax was explosive and when he was on the field and healthy he was a beast, but guess what? There are 31 other teams in the NFL that don't have D-Jax on their roster either, and guess what? They somehow have been able to build an NFL caliber WR core. Whether not it was a mistake or not to let him walk should have little bearing on how the WR core looks a second season removed from when he left. To be perfectly hones the question right now should be: Was letting Ryan Grant leave via FA a mistake? Sure, Grant is nothing special, but he did sort of develop into a reliable chain move last season and I am sure he isn't making a ton of money in Indy. He was familiar with this offense, usually healthy and on the field.....and was just as good if not better than anything we are seeing right now from the WR core. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megared Posted September 18, 2018 Share Posted September 18, 2018 1 hour ago, skinsmania123 said: It would have been better for this club to have kept Garcon. Sure hands. Runs great routes AND he can block. Garcon requested a trade in 2016, so he probably wasn't interested in returning...regardless of what he put out once free agency began. It was a mistake to not re-sign Jackson. The concerns we've heard about him declining have been to date, unfounded. He still demands careful attention from defenses, and is easily still the best deep threat we've seen since Randy Moss. The difference in money he got from Tampa wasn't worth losing him, especially when you factor in how much money we've wasted addressing the position, with nothing to show for it to date. I never understood the idea of making the guy block...you don't haul loads in a Ferrari. All he should be doing is running his man out of the play. If your play relies upon a 160 lb WR blocking to be successful, it probably isn't well designed. The scary part is that we never really even used him properly. There were stretches of halves, even entire games where we didn't go to him. If you look at what he was doing in Philly, he was far more dynamic then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voice_of_Reason Posted September 18, 2018 Share Posted September 18, 2018 First, I was screaming from the hills that letting both go was a travesty against the laws of logic and reason. I preferred keeping DJax. Either would have been better than none. A few replies to my fellow posters: 1. @KillBill26 I don't know that last year's numbers in Tampa are all that relevant. He went to a new team with a bum QB. If he stayed, he would have been playing in the same system with Kirk. I think it's more applicable to compare his 2016 Redskin production. 2. 11 hours ago, gooseneck said: yes -we would be 6-10 with him this year instead of 5-11 That's pretty funny, but having him on the team last year probably pushes either Grant or Doctson off the field, and that probably pushes up production of the offense by a good bit. Assuming health 3. 11 hours ago, tshile said: Can smith even get Jackson the ball? As @Renegade7 said, when he had a deep threat in T.Hill last year, he stretched the field really well. Nobody as ever really questioned Smith's arm strength. He can get the ball there, the question always has been would he be willing to. 4. 10 hours ago, BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 said: Losing both was idiotic as ****. The quote of the thread. Yes, and not only that it was OBVIOUSLY idiotic as ****. Bruce showed how much of an idiot he was saying that they got similar production back by signing Pryor and Quick. Jay kept on going on and on about Doctson and Grant. If there was a legitimate plan B, then maybe. But plan b was as stupid as John Snow and company going north to bring back a white walker to convince Cercei of the impending Apocalypse. (if you don't watch game of thrones, you can translate that to "really stupid." Then go start watching game of thrones ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beachboy757 Posted September 18, 2018 Share Posted September 18, 2018 Are we gonna do this after every loss? Wondering if it was a mistake to get rid of D Jax, Kirk, Garcon, and McVay? Comparing stats weekly? Ignoring they all left for more money and/or what they perceived to be a better situation for them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted September 18, 2018 Author Share Posted September 18, 2018 4 minutes ago, beachboy757 said: Are we gonna do this after every loss? Wondering if it was a mistake to get rid of D Jax, Kirk, Garcon, and McVay? Comparing stats weekly? Ignoring they all left for more money and/or what they perceived to be a better situation for them? No m, but the mistake we made with all if them is that we didn't need them enough to try to keep them. That basically was the offense that got a playoff berth, and they all walked out the door while we claimed we di as good it better without them, and no plan B. Discussion forum, btw, expected us to discuss the suck when we suck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaceman Spiff Posted September 18, 2018 Share Posted September 18, 2018 They should have kept Garcon or Djax. Garcon for his size, hands, intensity, blocking. Djax for being able to go off at any moment and keep defenses honest. Both brought things to the table that this current crop does not have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsmania123 Posted September 18, 2018 Share Posted September 18, 2018 43 minutes ago, megared said: Garcon requested a trade in 2016, so he probably wasn't interested in returning...regardless of what he put out once free agency began. It was a mistake to not re-sign Jackson. The concerns we've heard about him declining have been to date, unfounded. He still demands careful attention from defenses, and is easily still the best deep threat we've seen since Randy Moss. The difference in money he got from Tampa wasn't worth losing him, especially when you factor in how much money we've wasted addressing the position, with nothing to show for it to date. I never understood the idea of making the guy block...you don't haul loads in a Ferrari. All he should be doing is running his man out of the play. If your play relies upon a 160 lb WR blocking to be successful, it probably isn't well designed. The scary part is that we never really even used him properly. There were stretches of halves, even entire games where we didn't go to him. If you look at what he was doing in Philly, he was far more dynamic then. If the money had been enough Garcon would have stayed. He wanted to be paid. And we all know how BA is in the front office. The FO dragged their tails with Jackson and he was promised probably a lot more action then he got here so he went IMO. He was underutilized here. The money was fairly comparable but it was still a bit of a factor. I have nothing but good things to say about Jackson. I think he was misused here. Watching Cousins this year with Minnie having zero problems going deep hitting Thielsen and Diggs, I am not sure why we did not go more to Jackson. I think some of this is Gruden's play calling and even McVay a bit during his tenure here as OC. Our receivers are not getting enough game time action and I think chemistry needs to be developed. I am going to be a lot more concerned after this game if Smith does not open it up a bit downfield. Just so bland and predictable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Why am I Mr. Pink? Posted September 18, 2018 Share Posted September 18, 2018 Most of us thought they would try to keep one. Then you hear about how they (BA) didnt even call the agents. Having D Jax and Garcon with Reed was nice (when D Jax and Reed were simultaneously healthy) but it was a luxury .. plus we had to save cap to sign Kirk to a LTD. 2016 Cap hits - Garcon (10.2) and D Jax (9.2). 2017 FA - Garcon signed a 5/47.5M w 17G that most thought was to expensive. D Jax counted 12.5 against the cap last year. Having D Jax is nice, opens things up and Ive never seen a player be able to track a long ball and catch it while running full speed like D Jax. His ability to track and contort his body to make a catch is amazing. But has limits like you cant count on him to make catches in traffic, go over the middle, play in the PS, block etc IN 2016 we had to much % of our cap dedicated to WR (2nd most - 23.5M) and then last year we had the 10th smallest cap % spent on WR (10.8M) and a chunk of that was on Pryor. https://overthecap.com/positional-spending/ Would you really want D Jax for 11-12M for a speed guy over 30 who doesnt commit himself to a team first attitude and isnt a leader? I wouldnt then and I wouldnt now. edit - re not using him properly. His highest single season catch total is 82. His second highest single season catch total? 62. To me, he is a limited WR who can pop the top on a D but he is pretty much a one trick pony. Go routes and screens (that he is half ass committed to). In 2 of his 3 seasons here, he cracked 1k yards (with the other season a 10 g injury limited one). In his 7 seasons elsewhere, he cracked 1k yards 3 times. I feel like we are over glorifying D Jax here a bit. Hes a nice piece, that we used as effectively as any time in his career .. but hes limited and aint worth 12.5M now or going forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted September 18, 2018 Share Posted September 18, 2018 7 minutes ago, Why am I Mr. Pink? said: https://overthecap.com/positional-spending/ Would you really want D Jax for 11-12M for a speed guy over 30 who doesnt commit himself to a team first attitude and isnt a leader? Who is the leader on the receiving corp right now? From what beat guys have said D. Jax was a strong personality in that receiver locker room. I'd bet he'd be a leader among the current group. But even if he weren't a leader IMO so what? Guys like Kerrigan and Jonathan Allen from what we hear are quiet as mouses -- not leaders -- but still important players. D. Jax at least brings some personality and swagger to a team that's boring as heck as for personalities but even if he didn't he poses a real threat and is a game breaker. Who on this receiver corp scares defenses? I'd take D. Jax easy. John-Paul Flaim @GlassJoeJP Sep 17 More The @Redskins wide receivers (Doctson, Richardson and Crowder) have a combined 18 catches for 173 yards through two weeks. DeSean Jackson has 275. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panninho Posted September 18, 2018 Share Posted September 18, 2018 6 minutes ago, Why am I Mr. Pink? said: Would you really want D Jax for 11-12M for a speed guy over 30 who doesnt commit himself to a team first attitude and isnt a leader? Considering we spent 40 million or 8 million/season on a "deep threat" who basically only runs fast but has never shown the ability of Desean Jackson in that regard and on top of that has produced all of 1400 yards and 8 touchdowns in over 4 years in the NFL? Yeah i would. Also because our new WR has already torn his ACL twice. I take Jackson over that for a bit more money in a heartbeat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhead36 Posted September 18, 2018 Share Posted September 18, 2018 In the short term, yes it was a mistake, because there is no alternative on the roster. In the long term, I'm fine with not committing that kind of money for a speed receiver who's speed will leave him sooner rather than later as he gets over 30. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Why am I Mr. Pink? Posted September 18, 2018 Share Posted September 18, 2018 Looking at Desean's Bucs contract. Not a bad contract for the team. Basically a 2yr/23.5M deal with 12.5 last year and 11m this year. 3rd year is 10M but Bucs can cut w no dead money. But flip side, you had Norman's contract ballooning last year to over 16M and Kerrigan and then we thought they were trying to save cap for Kirk ... knowing we didnt end up signing Kirk to a LTD, thinking about it more, I would have signed D Jax up for the terms of the Bucs deal last year. I change my mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted September 18, 2018 Author Share Posted September 18, 2018 37 minutes ago, Panninho said: Considering we spent 40 million or 8 million/season on a "deep threat" who basically only runs fast but has never shown the ability of Desean Jackson in that regard and on top of that has produced all of 1400 yards and 8 touchdowns in over 4 years in the NFL? Yeah i would. Also because our new WR has already torn his ACL twice. I take Jackson over that for a bit more money in a heartbeat. This times 1000x. Fine didn't want to give to Jackson, but then we had the nerve to give it to someone who wasn't nearly as good to try to replace him? That is next level stupid, id rather have given that money to Jackson then Richardson, even if you asked me that question in the offseason we let him leave. 31 minutes ago, Warhead36 said: In the short term, yes it was a mistake, because there is no alternative on the roster. In the long term, I'm fine with not committing that kind of money for a speed receiver who's speed will leave him sooner rather than later as he gets over 30. Define "leave him"? At what point won't he be one of the best deep threats in the NFL? Will it be before or after his contract with the Bucs expires? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhead36 Posted September 18, 2018 Share Posted September 18, 2018 6 minutes ago, Renegade7 said: Define "leave him"? At what point won't he be one of the best deep threats in the NFL? Will it be before or after his contract with the Bucs expires? Well that's the million dollar question. He appears to still have it but at some point it'll go, as speed is always the first thing to go after age 30. But if he still has it or even like 85% of it for another 2-3 years, he'd have been worth keeping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted September 18, 2018 Author Share Posted September 18, 2018 Just because fans don't like someone doesn't mean he's a cancer, the people in the locker room determine that, not us. 6 minutes ago, Warhead36 said: Well that's the million dollar question. He appears to still have it but at some point it'll go, as speed is always the first thing to go after age 30. But if he still has it or even like 85% of it for another 2-3 years, he'd have been worth keeping. Exactly what were about to watch happen. I was fine letting him go because of the money and was underutilized here, not because I thought he'd fall off a cliff by end of an extension. I think we all fell for the idea that that money would go to Cousins and it didn't, many of jus made extra excuses to help justify letting him leave, we were reaching. Another lesson I learned is to not let a play elite at anything just leave with a clear proven alternative. You don't really replace DJax when he's arguable the best at what he does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voice_of_Reason Posted September 18, 2018 Share Posted September 18, 2018 1 hour ago, Spaceman Spiff said: EITHER brought things to the table that this current crop does not have Changed first word. Small difference, but there is a distinction... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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