Was Letting DJax Leave via FA a Mistake???

[Renegade7]

Sure ya'll remember one of the bigger debates we had in recent memory was what to do about Garcon and DJax being FA in the same offseason:

 

 

I voted both at first but admit I later waffled and went with neither.  I like a lot of people felt that at that age, we'd be overpaying them based on their previous production, not what they would be doing going forward at that point their careers.  I've felt up to this point that letting them both leave was the right move, not replacing that production was the mistake. When I looked at how Garcon and DJax were doing with their respective teams last year, I felt vindicated, even if it was obvious our offense missed them. 

 

This year, DJax has more yards and touchdowns then all our WRs combined right now.  Not a single WR has more receiving yards then Adrian F'n Peterson right now.  I look at what DJax's Cap Hit is seeing as we felt it would be too much:

 

2017 - $12.5 Million

2018 - $11 Million

2019 - $10 Million

 

Me, I would do that in a heartbeat right now considering the space we have left and what this is starting to look like.  I get wanting to have a cushion so we can give team friendly extensions to our younger players (really love that we do that), but considering Richardson's cap hit will be $8.5 millioin, $10 million, and $10 million his last three years, it feels like we looked for a deal to eventually be worth what we or maybe others felt DJax is now.  We did that for a WR that's had more then 300 yards receiving only ONCE in his career.

 

Now I get it, its week 2.  I'm probably jumping the gun. But considering how desperate we look today to get something close to a playmaker or WR that can at least get open consistently, I've changed my mind on whether letting him go was the right move.  It isn't that I don't expect Doctson or Richardson to be good WRs, I just have zero expectations of them being great ones or the type that people have to gameplan for.  DJax looks like he's still got it, and I looked at 2019 Free Agents and don't see a lot of options to say "lets overspend for a legit #1 if we have to".  We drafted a WR in the first round thinking we were good, if draft another, we obviously are not.

[NoCalMike]

In hindsight? Yes absolutely.  At the time though I see why they did, they assumed they had a plan in place for his (and Garcon's) departure.

 

Of course this being the Redskins, the plan did not work out.

[KillBill26]

As I was saying in the other thread, I think the Redskins made a wise decision to let them both walk considering their age and what they signed for.  Of course hindsight is 20/20, but you don't build winning teams by paying for past production. That practice will burn you a lot more often then it works out.  And I also think we are having a knee-jerk reaction because Jackson had a great game yesterday.  How many of those performances is he going to put up during the life of his current contract?  Last year he was pretty pedestrian.  I hope the same people who are praising him today come back to post after he has a game of three catches for 28 yards, or just as likely, inactive due to injury.  

 

While I was in favor of letting them both walk, at the time, if they had brought one back, I was hoping it was Garcon.  I felt his game allowed him to maintain success in his 30s, while I felt d Jax was about to fall off a cliff.  

 

I think you hit the nail on the head where this is more of an issue of the Redskins failure to replace them, not necessarily that bringing them back was the best choice at the time.  

 

[KillBill26]

D Jax 2017 game log   REGULAR SEASON-TB
1		DID NOT PLAY
2	CHI	3	39	0
3	@MIN	4	84	1
4	NYG	2	20	0
5	NE	5	106	0
6	@ARI	3	38	1
7	@BUF	5	73	0
8	CAR	3	37	0
9	@NO	2	25	0
10	NYJ	6	82	0
11	@MIA	2	28	1
12	@ATL	8	60	0
13	@GB	2	24	0
14	DET	4	41	0
15	ATL	1	11	0

A lot of underwhelming performances. He has looked great this year, but so has the entire bucs offense. Is that more due to d Jax and his ability to open up the offense and create opportunities for others?  or is Fitzpatrick playing out of his mind right now, with d-jax being a huge beneficiary?

[Renegade7]

3 minutes ago, KillBill26 said:

And I also think we are having a knee-jerk reaction because Jackson had a great game yesterday.  How many of those performances is he going to put up during the life of his current contract?  Last year he was pretty pedestrian.  I hope the same people who are praising him today come back to post after he has a game of three catches for 28 yards, or just as likely, inactive due to injury.  

 

I don't know how I feel about this anymore, I didn't think it was that bad when we let him walk, he had that one year where he missed nearly half the season, but this is how many games he's played for us and then Tampa last year:

 

2014 - 15

2015 - 10

2016 - 15

2017 - 14

 

And for the record, its not just one good game, his first game this year he had an even bigger game Week 1:    146 yards and 2 TDs.  He's healthy and going off right now.  I mean we're talking about his age being factor in letting him leave (31), but then we trade for a 34 year old QB?

 

3 minutes ago, KillBill26 said:

I think you hit the nail on the head where this is more of an issue of the Redskins failure to replace them, not necessarily that bringing them back was the best choice at the time.  

 

 

That's where I want to stay, but I'm really starting to feel we tried to replace production with potential.  I believe now considering our history that that's just as bad as paying for past production.  It's one thing to hope for one of our starters to breakout, asking for both risks neither and where we are, we shouldn't be doing that.  It cost our offense this year and has us between a rock and a hard place this year.

2 minutes ago, KillBill26 said:

A lot of underwhelming performances. He has looked great this year, but so has the entire bucs offense. Is that more due to d Jax and his ability to open up the offense and create opportunities for others?  or is Fitzpatrick playing out of his mind right now, with d-jax being a huge beneficiary?

He's getting open this year and last year, Winston was absolutely horrible last year, Fitz is playing his ass off right now.  The point at the end of the day is he is getting open, our WRs can't, that's not cool.

[gooseneck]

yes -we would be 6-10 with him this year instead of 5-11

[tshile]

Can smith even get Jackson the ball?

 

The debate at the time was which one to keep and our brain trust kept neither. 

 

One of many major personnel mistakes. 

[Chachie]

DJax giveth and DJax taketh away. 

 

I felt his presence here in DC was aways canceling itself. Touchdown but then a turnover or maybe a turnover but then a touchdown. I can no longer recall specifics but I always felt we were only breaking even with DeSean. It would be nice to have his explosiveness but we weren't really "winning" with him so I don't really miss him.

 

 

[Renegade7]

4 minutes ago, tshile said:

Can smith even get Jackson the ball?

 

The debate at the time was which one to keep and our brain trust kept neither. 

 

One of many major personnel mistakes. 

 

I feel like we've completely forgotten how good he was last year with Tyreek Hill.  He'd be doing the same thing with DJax if he was here right now, imo.

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000921980/article/alex-smith-matthew-stafford-head-top-deepball-throwers-of-17

 

Here are the qualifiers for these rankings:

» Only quarterbacks with at least 200 pass attempts in 2017 qualified for the list (34 total players).

» Next Gen Stats defines a "deep pass" as a throw that traveled 20-plus air yards.

» The final ranking was established by the quarterbacks who had the best scores in the following four categories:

-- Passer rating on deep throws.

-- Completion rate on deep throws.

-- Percentage of total passing yards accumulated on deep throws.

-- Touchdowns rate on deep throws (touchdowns per pass attempt).

» A composite score of the best players in all four categories was used, so that the rankings provided a balanced view of how the subjects performed this past season. The lowest total score signified the top performer.

 

1

Alex Smith

QB

Chiefs

 

 

Passer rating: 134.7 (first). 
Completion rate: 54.2 percent (first). 
Percentage of yards: 30 percent (first). 
Touchdown rate: 18.6 percent (second). 

Score: 5. 

One of the more shocking developments of the 2017 season was the statistical heightsAlex Smith, regarded as a mere game manager for years, reached as a passer for theChiefs. It was a year on par with Matt Ryan's 2016 MVP season from an efficiency standpoint. His most notable improvement came as a downfield passer. Smith attempted 4.2 deep passes per game (10th-most among qualifying quarterbacks) this past season to just 2.9 the year prior. His deep-passing effectiveness was not just markedly better, it was at league-best levels, as he ranked first in long-ball passer rating, deep completion rate and percentage of overall yards coming on deep throws. Smith didn't rank higher than 20th in any of those categories in 2016. The influence of having the NFL's best deep threat as your No. 1 wideout in Tyreek Hill was real and noticeable. Smith will now take his talents to Washington in an effort to show 2017 was the start of a new trend in his career, not just a glaring outlier.

[KillBill26]

16 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

And for the record, its not just one good game, his first game this year he had an even bigger game Week 1:    146 yards and 2 TDs.  He's healthy and going off right now.  I mean we're talking about his age being factor in letting him leave (31), but then we trade for a 34 year old QB?

He has had two outstanding games no doubt about it, but it's still only 2 games, following an entire season that was unspectactular.  Another poster said his year last year was due to Winston and his flaws, well then couldn't his start this year be partly attributed to Fitzpatrick and his outstanding performance?  Evans has a 50 yd touchdown under his belt, Howard has a 75 yd touchdown under his belt.  

 

And I think there is a huge difference between a receiver who's value is based on Elite Speed and taking the top off a defense, versus a quarterback in his mid-30s. When you think of elite quarterbacks a lot of the names you will rattle off are quarterbacks in their late 30s.  Brady is 41.  How many elite wide receivers whose value is based on their speed can you name that are in their 30s?  The two positions are so different, comparing ages across the positions doesn't really make sense. 

 

And I agree with you, we tried replacing production with potential, bringing in guys who haven't proven much, and it's not looking good so far. 

 

And good call as far as his games played, I was surprised he was active for that many.  It seems he is always battling an ailment.  Even during a game, it seems he is always off on the sideline getting attention from the trainer.  

11 minutes ago, Chachie said:

DJax giveth and DJax taketh away. 

 

I felt his presence here in DC was aways canceling itself. Touchdown but then a turnover or maybe a turnover but then a touchdown. I can no longer recall specifics but I always felt we were only breaking even with DeSean. It would be nice to have his explosiveness but we weren't really "winning" with him so I don't really miss him.

 

 

I'm still pissed at him for not reaching across the goal line in the playoff game vs the Packers.  Could have been a completely different game if we scored a touchdown on that drive instead of settling for a field goal.

[Renegade7]

6 minutes ago, Chachie said:

DJax giveth and DJax taketh away. 

 

I felt his presence here in DC was aways canceling itself. Touchdown but then a turnover or maybe a turnover but then a touchdown. I can no longer recall specifics but I always felt we were only breaking even with DeSean. It would be nice to have his explosiveness but we weren't really "winning" with him so I don't really miss him.

 

That's tough, because what he brought in regards to defenses being a afraid of him made up for that in my opinion.  It was first time in a while we really had something like that and haven't anything close to that yet.  Saying we weren't winning, man, there was a lot of factors to that.  As a piece of the puzzle instead of supposed to be saving the franchise, he's perfect, and that's what he's doing in Tampa.  Evans is their #1.

[samy316]

If you're going to let one of the best deep threats of all time walk out the door, you better have a damn good backup plan for how to compensate, and the Redskins were essentially caught with their pants down AGAIN.  On the surface, letting both DeSean & Pierre go in place of potential might sound good on the surface for any other franchise with foresight and vision, but when you realize that it's the most inept, pathetic and challenged front office in sports making that decision, then it just makes no damn sense what so ever.  We have NO deep threat on this team that terrorizes teams like Desean did, and you don't have a possession receiver like Pierre who will catch everything thrown his way, and block like hell for you when given the opportunity.

 

We went essentially from one of the best WR Corps in the NFL to the very worst (Dallas might be worse by a hair) seemingly overnight.  You can thank one particular asswipe for this too.  I really hope the fan attendance fiasco has Snyder up at night, sweating and worrying about how he turned a once proud franchise into an absolute joke, and a wasteland.

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

Losing both was idiotic as ****. 

 

Especially since I’m struggling to see where that money we saved is currently helping the team.

 

id rather have either one over the ghost that is Preston Smith, who is gonna get paid for like 4 sacks this offseason 

 

we invested in a QB that needs weapons to be at his best in a win now year for the coach. And we give him bull**** at WR. And tbh, it’s not even that bad right now. Wait til Thompson goes down after his 36 catch performance for 78 yards Sunday. Or when Reed gets hurt again

1 minute ago, samy316 said:

If you're going to let one of the best deep threats of all time walk out the door, you better have a damn good backup plan for how to compensate, and the Redskins were essentially caught with their pants down AGAIN.  On the surface, letting both DeSean & Pierre go in place of potential might sound good on the surface for any other franchise with foresight and vision, but when you realize that it's the most inept, pathetic and challenged front office in sports making that decision, then it just makes no damn sense what so ever.  We have NO deep threat on this team that terrorizes teams like Desean did, and you don't have a possession receiver like Pierre who will catch everything thrown his way, and block like hell for you when given the opportunity.

 

We went essentially from one of the best WR Corps in the NFL to the very worst (Dallas might be worse by a hair) seemingly overnight.  You can thank one particular asswipe for this too.  I really hope the fan attendance fiasco has Snyder up at night, sweating and worrying about how he turned a once proud franchise into an absolute joke, and a wasteland.

Forget a deep threat. 

 

Id like any type of threat at all at WR at this point 

[KillBill26]

1 minute ago, BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 said:

 Wait til Thompson goes down after his 36 catch performance for 78 yards Sunday. Or when Reed gets hurt again

Smith must have CT on his fantasy team in a PPR league. 

[CjSuAvE22]

There is no hindsight here our FO screwed up 4 positions of strength (qb  wr cb and gm) plain and simple , they should be fired all of them, 

[Renegade7]

@KillBill26 DJax is one of those players where his speed is just so outrageous that a drop off isn't going to happen.  Saying he's not as fast as he used to be doesn't matter, there still aren't that many that are faster then him.  For me, that and his elite ability to adjust to deep balls thrown, he's the perfect #2 WR.  I wish we coulda used him in the slot and on Punt Returner, which is another reason I was fine letting him leave.  This now just feels like we were idiots, didn't make the most of him, and felt we could just find someone else to do something like that.

 

Since he left we've been talking about a player that could replace what DJax could do.  This year its Richardson.  To me, that speaks volumes to this topic.

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

2 minutes ago, KillBill26 said:

Smith must have CT on his fantasy team in a PPR league. 

I do ☺️

 

He is a must start at this point. He was horrible yards wise but still got me 22 points lol 

[KillBill26]

1 minute ago, Renegade7 said:

@KillBill26 DJax is one of those players where his speed is just so outrageous that a drop off isn't going to happen.  Saying he's not as fast as he used to be doesn't matter, there still aren't that many that are faster then him.  For me, that and his elite ability to adjust to deep balls thrown, he's the perfect #2 WR.  I wish we coulda used him in the slot and on Punt Returner, which is another reason I was fine letting him leave.  This now just feels like we were idiots, didn't make the most of him, and felt we could just find someone else to do something like that.

 

Since he left we've been talking about a player that could replace what DJax could do.  This year its Richardson.  To me, that speaks volumes to this topic.

I hear ya, D jax plays his role very well.  Interesting debate for sure.  

[Jericho]

No. I get the move. Both he and Garcon were older receivers coming off their second contracts. Both were poor bets to come close to being worth what they were paid in free agency. In fact, both already had poor 2017s. I get that DeSean Jackson has had a couple of big games to start this season. I get that the current roster of WRs isn't good. But I tend to think you only re-sign those players if they're truly elite (neither were) or you're competing for a Super Bowl (and let's face it, the Redskins aren't). Jackson may have good games here an there, but I don't think Tampa will get $35 million worth from Jackson and its not like Jackson was the difference between Super Bowl and not here.

[KillBill26]

7 minutes ago, CjSuAvE22 said:

There is no hindsight here our FO screwed up 4 positions of strength (qb  wr cb and gm) plain and simple , they should be fired all of them, 

Imagine if Allen hadn't low-balled cousins after 2016 and we were able to lock him up long-term. And the domino effect it would have had on the rest of the team.  I feel like what we are watching now is the nightmare scenario in a Back to the Future movie, and we are waiting for Michael j. Fox to get in the delorean and come back and fix it.  He should plug January 2017 into the time machine and go right to Bruce Allen's office and close the deal himself. 

[Veryoldschool]

When the Skins decided to let Garcon and Jackson walk I wondered if they were doing to for leverage with Cousins and Kirk took the franchise tag and performed and walked so all three of them got away and the Skins got bupkis.

14 minutes ago, CjSuAvE22 said:

There is no hindsight here our FO screwed up 4 positions of strength (qb  wr cb and gm) plain and simple , they should be fired all of them, 

 

Amen!

[Renegade7]

18 minutes ago, CjSuAvE22 said:

There is no hindsight here our FO screwed up 4 positions of strength (qb  wr cb and gm) plain and simple , they should be fired all of them, 

What we did to the WR core was unforgivable.  What we did to CB I'm not sure about yet because Dunbar is playing almost as good as Norman is (still hate losing Fuller, agreed it would be super deep with Breeland and Fuller, but I'm not a GM).  QB, the more I think about it, we try to give our best players team friendly deals and at some point that just wasn't going to happen.  I will say that I agree we screwed up all 4, just different ways and not sure how bad it is yet.

 

I want Bruce gone, we've put a lot of work into resturcturing the Front Office since the Cheerleader fiasco, I'm not ready to blow the whole thing up.  

 

Edit:  The lesson I'd say from the Cousins fiasco is if at any point we think we have the guy and can look him up for less then those insane $100 million contracts potential gets you, you take it and don't look back.

7 minutes ago, Veryoldschool said:

When the Skins decided to let Garcon and Jackson walk I wondered if they were doing to for leverage with Cousins and Kirk took the franchise tag and performed and walked so all three of them got away and the Skins got bupkis.

Maaaaaan, this is what I thought, too, that we were going to need the money and didn't give it to him either. Unreal.

[London Kev]

I'm sitting on the fence with a "too early to tell" vote.

DJax is lighting it up right now but I'm not sure he will do it all season. I also don't think he would have the same numbers if he stayed here.

Garcon was a baller and I wanted him to stay, although he's not exactly blowing them away in San Fran so far.

[skins island connection]

 DJax was the type of deep threat that could cause coverage problems with defenses.

 

 But what he did was open up opportunities for other receivers to get some catches; once defenses began to switch back, that's when DJax got the ball. It was cat & mouse.

There's no deep threat right now on this team. Doctson was supposed to be the WR to step up and begin making a statement, but that's not gonna happen, at least not here. Crowder has pretty good speed but he just doesn't get enough deep shots to get attention from defenses, and maybe Gruden doesn't have enough faith he can do it consistently so he doesn't call the play.

 

Not trying to hijack the thread, but look at someone like Josh Gordon; wherever he ends up, there will be a lot of focus by defenses because he has the talent and speed. Maybe the scouts don't look for this type of WR, but its the only thing that will help, especially the TEs. I've always questioned the scouts because they never seem to find these speedy guys in the draft.

[Hazel-Ra]

I miss Garçon more.