Unbias Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 With DJax he might be one of the best deep threats ever. It's not his just his speed, but his ability to track and adjust to a ball in the air are second to none. For his stats in Tampa the one thing that's very clear is that Jameis Winston really sucks at throwing a deep ball. Look at what Mike Evans did in college and now what he's doing with Fitz-magic. He and Desean are tearing it up and it's because they finally have a QB that can throw a catchable deep ball. Anyway, I miss DJax and he'd be better than anyone we have. I'm unsure if Alex Smith would be able to do much with him, but he'd be an injection of talent that we are lacking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hail4Life Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 During the 3 seasons D-Jax was here did we have a winning record? Did we win any playoff games? Sure, it'd be nice to have him here this season but overall the team has been no better/no worse without him...so nah, i don't think it's a mistake because at the end of the year we have 7 to 9 wins with or without him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbias Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 28 minutes ago, Hail4Life said: During the 3 seasons D-Jax was here did we have a winning record? Did we win any playoff games? Sure, it'd be nice to have him here this season but overall the team has been no better/no worse without him...so nah, i don't think it's a mistake because at the end of the year we have 7 to 9 wins with or without him. I've never understood the argument of certain positions not winning championships. There is no single path to winning a championship and there are a lot of moving parts. You need talent everywhere and when you downgrade one area it's fine as long as you upgrade other areas to offset that loss. For me when DJax walked that was a start of just being a less talented team. Our defense has some improvements, but not to the same level. It's not quite that simple, but look back at the past couple championships and wonder how they would have played out without big time play makers making plays? the Alshon Jeffery catch was huge. The Edelman circus catch was massive and to this day I don't know how it happened. The QB did make great throws, but there was a talented, well paid WR on the receiving end of both huge plays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megared Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 2 hours ago, Hail4Life said: During the 3 seasons D-Jax was here did we have a winning record? Did we win any playoff games? Sure, it'd be nice to have him here this season but overall the team has been no better/no worse without him...so nah, i don't think it's a mistake because at the end of the year we have 7 to 9 wins with or without him. Can't put the entire team's record on his shoulders. What bothers me the most, is the guy literally dropped into our lap, by all accounts did not create controversy, and did his job. Then he wasn't even approached about a new contract. You can look at what Tampa gave him and say 'that's too expensive', but we didn't have to pay him that if we had extended him going into the '16 season. He makes the entire offense more dynamic just by being a threat. Defenses can't key on Thompson, or Reed, because they have to worry about having safety help deep. Doctson possibly could've had a lot of easier looks, because the defense is making sure Jackson doesn't beat them deep. We do know Gruden wanted him back. In that aspect (despite his repeated incompetence elsewhere) I do feel for him. How can you create a dynamic offense without dynamic playmakers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PokerPacker Posted September 23, 2018 Share Posted September 23, 2018 I think the real mistake may have been not taking advantage of what seemed like a deep WR draft class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morrison J Posted September 23, 2018 Share Posted September 23, 2018 Loved DJax when here but we could cut ties at the right time. Alex Smith is a safety first QB. You need a slinger to get the most out of DJax. He wouldn't be lighting it up if he was here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goskins10 Posted September 23, 2018 Share Posted September 23, 2018 On 9/19/2018 at 8:19 PM, megared said: Can't put the entire team's record on his shoulders. What bothers me the most, is the guy literally dropped into our lap, by all accounts did not create controversy, and did his job. Then he wasn't even approached about a new contract. You can look at what Tampa gave him and say 'that's too expensive', but we didn't have to pay him that if we had extended him going into the '16 season. He makes the entire offense more dynamic just by being a threat. Defenses can't key on Thompson, or Reed, because they have to worry about having safety help deep. Doctson possibly could've had a lot of easier looks, because the defense is making sure Jackson doesn't beat them deep. We do know Gruden wanted him back. In that aspect (despite his repeated incompetence elsewhere) I do feel for him. How can you create a dynamic offense without dynamic playmakers? The problem was not in letting him go. He cannot stay healthy was 30 - the general age of decline in the NFL. . This is the primary reason the record was not much different. It was not replacing him adequately. It appears Pryor came in with an attitude. Either they thought the attitude was not real or they did not do enough research. Full disclosure I supported the signing at the time. Had high hopes for him. But in hindsight it appears they did not do enough research. Doctson was expected to be part of the solution also. While i still have hope for him - he is more a fighter than people realize and has a very high upside - it's looking more and more like he will not fulfill what looked like a promising career. People can say what they want about there were signs - that's total bull****. Josh graded out at or near the top of every draft board. 1st rd picks do not always work out. It's part of it, and one of the reasons you need the most picks you can get. Just for reference, the other top WRs from that draft were Corey Colemen - not available at 23 (our original pick) who is on his 3rd team already, Will Fuller who could have been available - he has done well when playing but has been injured - playing only 14, 10 and 1 game respectively so far, and Laquon Treadwell who has performed worse than then Josh so far. A couple of 2nd rd guys are doing much better. But it's not like the Redskins were the only ones who didn't take them in the first. And you are not taking WR 1st and 2nd. So will all due respect to @PokerPacker they did try to take advantage of the WR in the draft taking one of the best in the draft based on virtually everyone's analysis. Had they taken no one or just a 6th or 7th flyer then I would agree. So again, the problem was not letting him go. It was the guys picked to replace him have not done so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PokerPacker Posted September 23, 2018 Share Posted September 23, 2018 3 minutes ago, goskins10 said: So will all due respect to @PokerPacker they did try to take advantage of the WR in the draft taking one of the best in the draft based on virtually everyone's analysis. Had they taken no one or just a 6th or 7th flyer then I would agree. So again, the problem was not letting him go. It was the guys picked to replace him have not done so. Taking one guy in the first is more of a move for a shallow draft where you want to try to make sure you get something good (which doesn't always work out as much as one would like). With deep drafts, you can spend a few mid-late round picks on players and see who rises to the top. Also, I was looking more at this past draft. I don't remember how deep the draft class was the year Jackson walked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megared Posted September 23, 2018 Share Posted September 23, 2018 9 minutes ago, goskins10 said: The problem was not in letting him go. He cannot stay healthy was 30 - the general age of decline in the NFL. . This is the primary reason the record was not much different. It was not replacing him adequately. It appears Pryor came in with an attitude. Either they thought the attitude was not real or they did not do enough research. Full disclosure I supported the signing at the time. Had high hopes for him. But in hindsight it appears they did not do enough research. The guy had two seasons where he missed 5 games (2012) and 7 games (2015). In the other 8 seasons, he played at least 14 games. There was nothing on film indicating that the guy had slowed down. The whole 'conventional wisdom' thing is a cop out for not wanting to pay him. I don't see other elite level receivers turn 30 and find themselves instantly on the market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goskins10 Posted September 23, 2018 Share Posted September 23, 2018 3 minutes ago, megared said: The guy had two seasons where he missed 5 games (2012) and 7 games (2015). In the other 8 seasons, he played at least 14 games. There was nothing on film indicating that the guy had slowed down. The whole 'conventional wisdom' thing is a cop out for not wanting to pay him. I don't see other elite level receivers turn 30 and find themselves instantly on the market. He never played 16 games. And several of the games he played he was not fully available, missing big chunks of time. I liked the guy. Was glad we signed him. But it made sense to let him go. And I have never heard making sound financial decisions based on probability as a "cop out". It is fact that the large number of speed WRs start to slow once they reach 30. Is it exact? Of course not. But it's also not the only criteria, nor did i say it was. If that were the only reason I would agree with you. But it's just part of a more complete picture. When you add in cost and being oft injured, it makes a full picture that says it's time to move on. 41 minutes ago, PokerPacker said: Taking one guy in the first is more of a move for a shallow draft where you want to try to make sure you get something good (which doesn't always work out as much as one would like). With deep drafts, you can spend a few mid-late round picks on players and see who rises to the top. Also, I was looking more at this past draft. I don't remember how deep the draft class was the year Jackson walked. If you were talking about this past draft, Ok fair enough and i would probably agree although not completely - more on that later. But it reads as the 2017 draft since the question here was about letting Jackson go. I went back to the 2016 draft - since they had used a 1st rd pick in 2016 and he was injured. It is my belief that they picked Doctson with the intention of letting Jackson walk - hence no contract given. There was no reason to assume he would not work out. You can;t just give up on your 1st picks that easily. Also, the team needed d-line badly. Not to mention they have in fact taken at least one WR each of the last 4 drafts. that's 5 picks out of a total of 35 - or 14.3%. So it's not like they ignored it. But in fairness I sohuld have been more complete in my response. As for the first part, we will have to agree to disagree. I am not sure how using your most precious resource in a draft is not taking advantage of the strength of a draft. If you get the best of the best using the most precious resource in a draft - your #1 pick - I see that as taking advantage of it. I definitely disagree about throwing multiple mid-round picks at a position if it's a true need. The chances of even one of a few mid to late rd draft picks working out as a legitimate starter are less overall than a single 1st rd draft pick. In the end it's all a crap shoot. If you really need something you have to take your best shot at it, and that's your 1st rd pick or maybe your 2nd if you really like someone there. They did that in 2016. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreatBuzz Posted September 23, 2018 Share Posted September 23, 2018 I voted no not because he isn't good but because we didn't use him prperly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PokerPacker Posted September 23, 2018 Share Posted September 23, 2018 40 minutes ago, goskins10 said: If you were talking about this past draft, Ok fair enough and i would probably agree although not completely - more on that later. But it reads as the 2017 draft since the question here was about letting Jackson go. I went back to the 2016 draft - since they had used a 1st rd pick in 2016 and he was injured. It is my belief that they picked Doctson with the intention of letting Jackson walk - hence no contract given. There was no reason to assume he would not work out. You can;t just give up on your 1st picks that easily. Also, the team needed d-line badly. Not to mention they have in fact taken at least one WR each of the last 4 drafts. that's 5 picks out of a total of 35 - or 14.3%. So it's not like they ignored it. But in fairness I sohuld have been more complete in my response. The thing about WR is that there's room for more than 1 on the field, so the more talent you wind up with, the merrier. Even were that not the case, look back to when everything and the kitchen sink were traded to move up for RG3. A few rounds later, Kirk Cousins was picked up. Yeah, take your shot if you've got "your guy", but hedge your bets a bit. 40 minutes ago, goskins10 said: As for the first part, we will have to agree to disagree. I am not sure how using your most precious resource in a draft is not taking advantage of the strength of a draft. If you get the best of the best using the most precious resource in a draft - your #1 pick - I see that as taking advantage of it. I definitely disagree about throwing multiple mid-round picks at a position if it's a true need. The chances of even one of a few mid to late rd draft picks working out as a legitimate starter are less overall than a single 1st rd draft pick. In the end it's all a crap shoot. If you really need something you have to take your best shot at it, and that's your 1st rd pick or maybe your 2nd if you really like someone there. They did that in 2016. The defining aspect of a deep draft is that talent can be found later because there is a high amount of talented players to be had. If you've got a deep WR draft, then the value is in taking multiple guys later. I think this past draft was a real missed opportunity with all the talent that was available all the way through the sixth round, but the Skins didn't take any except for Mr. Irrelevant. Then again, with the talent that was available at the tail end of the sixth, maybe Mr. Irrelevant isn't so irrelevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hail4Life Posted September 24, 2018 Share Posted September 24, 2018 On 9/19/2018 at 3:49 PM, Unbias said: I've never understood the argument of certain positions not winning championships. There is no single path to winning a championship and there are a lot of moving parts. You need talent everywhere and when you downgrade one area it's fine as long as you upgrade other areas to offset that loss. For me when DJax walked that was a start of just being a less talented team. Our defense has some improvements, but not to the same level. It's not quite that simple, but look back at the past couple championships and wonder how they would have played out without big time play makers making plays? the Alshon Jeffery catch was huge. The Edelman circus catch was massive and to this day I don't know how it happened. The QB did make great throws, but there was a talented, well paid WR on the receiving end of both huge plays. Uhh for the record I made no such argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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