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SCOTUS: No longer content with stacking, they're now dealing from the bottom of the deck

Burgold

By Burgold
in The Tailgate

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twa

twa

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Kilmer17 said:

Question for anyone- has the judiciary committee voted on him yet?   Or was Flake refusing to make that vote before the fbi investigates?  Trying to figure out the what’s next

 

yes they have

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Llevron

Llevron

Posted
Posted
Just now, Kilmer17 said:

Question for anyone- has the judiciary committee voted on him yet?   Or was Flake refusing to make that vote before the fbi investigates?  Trying to figure out the what’s next

 

Yea they voted hin through. Flakes vote was under the condition that and FBI investigation happens.....but he voted first. 

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Spaceman Spiff

Spaceman Spiff

Posted
Posted
44 minutes ago, Popeman38 said:

So other people not being able to corroborate Ford’s story is dismissed as hearsay and bull****? In statements made under penalty of perjury? And everyone else says that people making statements that support Kavanaugh are also bull****. 

 

Basically, the only way to defend yourself is to provide video evidence you didn’t do what you are accused of doing. Otherwise all potential exculpatory witness statements can be dismissed as hearsay and bull****?

 

Listen, Kavanaugh should not be confirmed. He has proven himself unworthy of the bench. But the standards devised to defend oneself from an allegation are literally too high for ANYONE to clear. If someone accuses you of sexual misconduct (the original accusation) 36 years ago, and people can comment that you drank a lot in college, and you can’t prove that you didn’t do it (goes against the very fiber of our judicial standards), you will be assumed guilty and untouchable. 

 

Democrats are already talking about impeaching him from the circuit court. 

 

Yep. 

 

2 minutes ago, Llevron said:

I'm not sure how you defend Kavenaugh at all at this point. 

 

 

 

If you've dug your heels in and are a Republican, it's pretty easy.  Been going back and forth with my parents today via email, what they choose to focus on is pathetic.  But I don't pretend to expect enlightened and open mindedness from people in their 70s.

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grego

grego

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

 

 

If you've dug your heels in and are a Republican, it's pretty easy.  Been going back and forth with my parents today via email, what they choose to focus on is pathetic.  But I don't pretend to expect enlightened and open mindedness from people in their 70s.

 

At least they can use e-mail 

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Renegade7

Renegade7

Posted
Posted
13 minutes ago, Llevron said:

I'm not sure how you defend Kavenaugh at all at this point. 

 

 

You don't have to, they know its too late to get someone else in before the elections.  Not everyone that wants this guy in cares what he did or didn't do, he's a staunch conservative not a swing vote, full stop for some people.

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Spaceman Spiff

Spaceman Spiff

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, visionary said:

 

 

 

 

 I am assuming that this story about the bar fight shouldn't be news to the FBI.  After all, didn't Kavanaugh have to go through extremely thorough background checks to get this far?  While not a felony or even a misdemeanor, I would think that some police blotter would show up no matter what.

2 minutes ago, grego said:

 

At least they can use e-mail 

 

Yeah, I wonder why I showed them how sometimes.:rofl89:

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grego

grego

Posted
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, GhostofSparta said:

Simple. You claim Ford is a delusional liar:
 

 

 

 

not a liar- if you have false memories, as is the suggestion, you believe them. 

from her paper- 

Quote

Hypnosis also has been widely and successfully used to treat a variety of conditions, including stress, anxiety, and psychological aspects of pain (Butler et al.,2007; D. Spiegel, 1994; H. Spiegel & Spiegel, 2004; Yapko, 2003). Hypnosis is a formof highly focused attention with a relative constriction of peripheral awareness (H.Spiegel & Spiegel, 2004) and has been used successfully as an adjunct to therapy fordepression. In 1964, Abrams suggested that hypnosis could be used to improverapport in the therapeutic relationship, assist in the retrieval of important memories,and create artificial situations that would permit the client to express ego-dystonicemotions in a safe manner (see also Griggs, 1989; Havens, 1986). Yapko (1992, 2001)elaborated methods of using hypnosis in a cognitive-behavioral framework to treatdepression; he described a range of hypnotic techniques designed to improvepatients’ expectations for their lives and to change their focus from negative, globalthoughts to specific issues for which patients can find resources to cope. Thus,hypnosis can be utilized to focus on certain aspects of an experience or memory or tocompare and contrast different aspects of it, thereby modulating the associatedemotions. Perhaps surprisingly, though, hypnosis has rarely been used as theprimary treatment for patients with clinical depression.

 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2010/nov/24/false-memories-abuse-convict-innocent

 

Quote

 

False memories of sexual abuse lead to terrible miscarriages of justice

Chris French
To avoid the innocent being convicted, police, lawyers and judges must understand the fickle nature of human memory
 
  Patients with common psychological problems such as depression and anxiety are sometimes subjected to 'memory recovery' techniques. Photograph: Corbis

Many of those working in our legal system have such a poor understanding of the nature of human memory that miscarriages of justice are an almost inevitable consequence, according to a book published today by the British False Memory Society. Miscarriage of Memory, edited by William Burgoyne, Norman Brand, Madeline Greenhalgh and Donna Kelly, presents factual accounts of prosecutions in the UK that were based entirely upon memories of sexual abuse recovered during therapy in the absence of any supporting evidence.

Typically such cases occur when a vulnerable individual seeks help from a psychotherapist for a commonly occurring psychological problem such as anxiety, depression, low self-esteem, and so on. At this stage, the client has no conscious memories of ever being the victim of childhood sexual abuse and is likely to firmly reject any suggestion of such abuse. To a particular sort of well-meaning psychotherapist, however, such denial is itself evidence that the abuse really did occur.

Despite strong criticism from experimental psychologists, many psychotherapists still accept the Freudian notion of repression – the idea that when someone experiences extreme trauma, a defence mechanism kicks in that buries the memory of the traumatic event so deep that it cannot be retrieved into consciousness. Like radioactive waste, its presence is said to exert a malign influence. Indeed, the whole rationale of such therapy is that these hidden memories must be recovered and worked through in order to achieve psychological health.

During therapy, and often as a result of "memory recovery" techniques such as hypnotic regression and guided imagery, the client may gradually develop clear and vivid memories of abuse having taken place, typically at the hands of parents and other family members.

On the evidence of a huge amount of well-controlled research, we can now be confident that these memory recovery techniques are highly likely to give rise to false memories – apparent memories for events that never took place.

 

 

 

 

from the NY times. 

https://www.nytimes.com/1997/09/10/us/hypnosis-may-cause-false-memories.html

 

 

Quote

 

HYPNOSIS, even self-hypnosis, can sometimes result in the creation of false memories -- the belief that something happened even though it never did. A psychologist at Ohio State University in Lima and fellow researchers found that even when people were warned about the possibility of acquiring pseudo-memories under hypnosis, more than a quarter of them did anyway.

Dr. Joseph Green, a professor of psychology at Ohio State and co-author of the study, said, ''There's a cultural expectation that hypnosis will lead to more accurate and earlier memories, but that's not true.''

For that reason, there is a raging controversy over the use of hypnosis to help people recall lost memories of early trauma. Many experts dispute the conclusion that such recovered memories are always real.

 

 

 

 

(adding for clarity that its absolutely possible kav groped her )

Edited by grego
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No Excuses

No Excuses

Posted
Posted (edited)
58 minutes ago, GhostofSparta said:

Simple. You claim Ford is a delusional liar:
 

 

 

This is one of the most shameful attempts at a smear I’ve ever seen. 

 

She cites a research paper in her work and supposedly we are to believe this applies to her. 

 

Why am I also not surprised that grego is taking this seriously and running with it.

Edited by No Excuses
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Mooka

Mooka

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Popeman38 said:

So other people not being able to corroborate Ford’s story is dismissed as hearsay and bull****? In statements made under penalty of perjury? And everyone else says that people making statements that support Kavanaugh are also bull****. 

 

Basically, the only way to defend yourself is to provide video evidence you didn’t do what you are accused of doing. Otherwise all potential exculpatory witness statements can be dismissed as hearsay and bull****?

  

Listen, Kavanaugh should not be confirmed. He has proven himself unworthy of the bench. But the standards devised to defend oneself from an allegation are literally too high for ANYONE to clear. If someone accuses you of sexual misconduct (the original accusation) 36 years ago, and people can comment that you drank a lot in college, and you lie that you didn't, then change the subject, then say you like beer, then ask the senator if they like beer and you can’t prove that you didn’t do it (goes against the very fiber of our judicial standards), you will be assumed guilty and untouchable. 

 

Democrats are already talking about impeaching him from the circuit court. 

 

Defend yourself in what kind of court? A criminal court? Public hearing? FBI questioning? Senate Judiciary Committee? The court of public opinion? There are different levelshere. Certainly in most court's you're assumed guilty if you lie or dance around questions.

 

As for the first part... we're talking people not being able to corroborate Dr Ford's story; as in they don't remember. Is saying you don't remember something 30+ years ago a statement made under penalty of felony? Its not perjury btw, that's why it sounds goofy. Brett Kavanaugh an appeals court judge obviously knows what perjury is. Penalty of felony...? As in, its a felony to email a sorta lie about something 30 years ago to a senate committee? That's an awful big stretch.  (I'm fully aware sending a false statement to a Senate committee is probably a crime/felony) As for the 65 women, they just say Kavanaugh is an honorable guy, the letter doesn't say anything specific. Again, that's not a statement made under felony. 

 

 

 

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NoCalMike

NoCalMike

Posted
Posted (edited)

Saying you don't remember something is not saying it didn't happen.  Again, use some common sense, if you were at a party or small gathering, and were unaware of any sexual assault taking place, why in the world would ever remember that party 30 years later.  Especially if you run in Kavanaugh's circle of friends who seemed to be drinking & partying pretty frequently.

 

For most of the people at the party it was probably just like any other of the 100 parties they went to.  Not sure why some keep going back to the "no one to corroborate" well. 

 

Also, the reason Kavanaugh's drinking is important, is not because the drinking itself should be crucified, but if you are someone who is often drunk, stumbling around, blacking out (allegedly), not remembering things from the night before sometimes (allegedly), then there stands to be a chance that Kavanaugh honest to goodness has no recollection of doing this even if he did it.

 

I find it very ironic that a whole lot of people keep saying "Hmmm...Ford sounded sincere, I think something happened to her, but she must be wrong about it being Kavanaugh"  Oh really?  Who is the dude drinking and partying all the time?   Who stands a more likely chance to have completely forgotten about the incident?

Edited by NoCalMike
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grego

grego

Posted
Posted
25 minutes ago, No Excuses said:

 

This is one of the most shameful attempts at a smear I’ve ever seen. 

 

She cites a research paper in her work and supposedly we are to believe this applies to her. 

 

Why am I also not surprised that grego is taking this seriously and running with it.

 

running with it? not at all. i have no idea what went on with her and kavanaugh. i am fascinated by psychology.

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PF Chang

PF Chang

Posted
Posted

I know that nobody cares about lying anymore as long as the person's on your team, but it's amazing how he doesn't even have to use believable lies. Devil's triangle is a drinking game like quarters that only Kavanaugh and his bros know about. The treasurer of the 100 Kegs or Bust club throws up because of spaghetti, not alcohol. 

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