Daniel Snyder ...Dare We Say Maturing....as a competent owner

[Reaper Skins]

Dan is way too reactionary to be successful.

 

Even when he does make a good decision, its usually done years too late or done only as a last resort to put out a PR fire.

 

I've yet to see anything that convinces me his mindset has gone from:

 

"What minimum step can I take to get me out of immediate trouble with the fans and minimize lost revenue" to "what can I proactively do to make my team at the forefront of the league"

 

He is obsessed with cutting corners and trying to prove that his way is smarter than other franchises.  He makes decisions (like front office structuring, fan experiences, personnel decisions, and media relationships) 10 times more complicated than they need to be.

 

IMO, he's still focused on revenue #1, on-field success #2.  He needs to streamline the whole organization and re-commit to what he should be selling.  Football, not flash.  Reinvest in better equipment and training facilities, and worry less about what's in the gift shop.  

 

On-field success leads to off-field success.  Not the other way around.

 

"Protect the money, hope for wins" is not a sound strategy 

 

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

6 hours ago, goskins10 said:

 

The visceral response from anything positive about dan being pointed out does show just how bad he has damaged his relationship with the fans. And I do not think it's just on ES. I don't live in the area anymore but I do run into fans from time to time. And almost all have the same problem - dan is a piece of ****. The only way that changes is if he sells the team. I am not sure even winning a SB will fix that relationship. Fans will be static with the team winning but still hate dan and want him to sell the team. 

 

Good point about how relationships can be so damaged in this case with Dan and fans that you hit a point of no return.  My only slight disagreement is about a SB. I think if they win a SB all is forgiven for many fans.   IMO there are two reasons for this:

 

A.  the weird thing about the Redskins under Dan is they do things differently and lose.  It's one thing to say we don't have to model the Steelers or name that winning organization because we win our way.  Under Dan, they lose their unique way.  

 

B.  If they win a SB -- playing off of point A -- they finally have some vindication that their way can work.  The thing I hate most about Dan's tenure is I typically don't trust the decision makers to make the right calls about the roster.   I'd much rather it be hey this doesn't make sense to me but hey John Schneider made the call so I can relax and trust the process.

 

The fact that so many fans don't trust the decision makers IMO is the lynchpin of fan unrest/apathy.  They fix that -- then they both IMO make this team a winner and rally the fan base in one fell swoop.  And its not some random fan unrest about decision makers -- it's that Dan doesn't do the top chef runs the kitchen drill as for personnel.  To me that's both 90% of the team not sniffing a Superbowl during his era and also 90% of their PR issues. 

 

Some say they've turned the corner because they recently elevated the team from being one of the worst teams in the NFL to the new found land of mediocrity.  It's something this franchise has in common with the Lions, actually.  And like the Lions most of it is driven by good QB play for a change.    But to me this franchise is really riding mostly on the back of Jay's play calling and Kirk previously and now Alex Smith. 

 

They need to unlock more keys to the kingdom IMO than that to become a real winner.    However, if people want to argue Dan's improvements (and I agree he has improved on some fronts) has led to discovering the 8-8 terrain.  I agree with that.  But I don't think that excites a ton of fan albeit its an improvement from being linked with the bottom dwellers. 

 

 

[hail2skins]

32 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

They need to unlock more keys to the kingdom IMO than that to become a real winner.    However, if people want to argue Dan's improvements (and I agree he has improved on some fronts) has led to discovering the 8-8 terrain.  I agree with that.  But I don't think that excites a ton of fan albeit its an improvement from being linked with the bottom dwellers. 

Yeah, and it always comes down to "relative to what?"  Twenty years ago we had gotten "back to .500" but fans were calling for Norv's head because, well, we weren't that far removed from Super Bowls. Now "back to .500" is considered a stellar improvement.  Same as why some consider Gibbs 2.0's two playoff seasons and two well-below .500 seasons a rousing success. 

 

I do think Dan has or is finally recognizing the importance of the football folks in the front office and not the flashy new toy on the sidelines. As a lot of folks, still go back to the Marty debacle. And we know from Spurrier's book that it was because Beathard didn't want to work with Marty, and we wind up not even bringing Beathard back, but instead Bug Eyes. 

[Skinsinparadise]

11 minutes ago, hail2skins said:

 

I do think Dan has or is finally recognizing the importance of the football folks in the front office and not the flashy new toy on the sidelines. As a lot of folks, still go back to the Marty debacle. And we know from Spurrier's book that it was because Beathard didn't want to work with Marty, and we wind up not even bringing Beathard back, but instead Bug Eyes. 

 

Not sure if this part is true considering he has a non-personnel guy in charge of personnel whose unpopularity (judging by poll) gives Vinny a run for his money.

 

However, if the speculation is true that Kyle Smith will be given the reigns -- then I'll be impressed with Dan.  A real football personnel guy running personnel.   

[Kurd Cudins]

Tony Wyllie and the PR train coming through!!! Choo Choo!!!

[bobandweave]

Dan is holding himself in check that much I agree with. That doesn’t take away the decade plus of him meddling that wasted so many years off all our lives when he was. When the ledger is equal on both sides of the years then a thread like this is deserved. One good offseason does not make up for 10+ years of bad

[skinfan2k]

How can you mature if you haven't won jack****?

[goskins10]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Good point about how relationships can be so damaged in this case with Dan and fans that you hit a point of no return.  My only slight disagreement is about a SB. I think if they win a SB all is forgiven for many fans.   IMO there are two reasons for this:

 

Edit

 

 

 

I get what you are saying and maybe I am just projecting my own position and assuming others feel the same way. But my problems with Dan are not just football related. 

 

So from a football standpoint I can see a SB win forgiving all. But for me, it's also he is just a POS of a person in so many ways, which for me is more important than football. If he were just a dumb owner who didn't get it right but was otherwise a decent person, then absolutely a SB forgives all the bungling. But winning a SB does not change the person he is and how he has treated so many people during his time as owner. 

 

I am not going to clog this up with all the examples if for no other reason you are just as aware, maybe more so, than me of what they are. So for me, a SB forgives the football bungling but not who is. Again, that may just be me. 

[Skinsinparadise]

21 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

I get what you are saying and maybe I am just projecting my own position and assuming others feel the same way. But my problems with Dan are not just football related. 

 

So from a football standpoint I can see a SB win forgiving all. But for me, it's also he is just a POS of a person in so many ways, which for me is more important than football. If he were just a dumb owner who didn't get it right but was otherwise a decent person, then absolutely a SB forgives all the bungling. But winning a SB does not change the person he is and how he has treated so many people during his time as owner. 

 

I am not going to clog this up with all the examples if for no other reason you are just as aware, maybe more so, than me of what they are. So for me, a SB forgives the football bungling but not who is. Again, that may just be me. 

 

Yeah I get this part of your point.  It would be nice if the Redskins were considered the good guys because they handle things with class.    Sadly, that's not been the case.

 

I think they have some really good/classy people working there.   But the way things have been handled in some cases doesn't give the vibe that making the classy move publicly is the ultimate driver -- I've put a lot of that on Bruce but Dan has his own long history of it himself -- so it makes you wonder if its really Dan and Bruce is just taking the PR hits for him.

 

On that point, I am relying on Chris Russell's take which has been Dan has been frustrated by the way Bruce has handled things publicly including the Scot situation.  But I don't rule out that Dan hasn't mellowed and is part of it.  It's really hard to tell with Dan these days because he's gone so deep into the shadows. 

 

[Warhead36]

On 5/21/2018 at 6:49 PM, skins_warrior said:

I'm going to jump right into it: 

1. Dan has built a nice resume of partnering with some of the best football minds in this era.
 

- Norv Turner (2x superbowls as OC, 250 games as HC)

Yeah, I immediately stopped reading after this.

 

Gotta be a troll right?

[Renegade7]

This last draft was like DJ Khalid telling some chick who don't speak English "you're smart" good.

 

If he was still meddeling, he deserves credit for it.  If he didn't and just let the football people do their job, it means he got the right football people and he deserves credit for that, too.  You can't have your cake and eat it to on this one, if he pushes Allen out (which is what its starting to look like), it means he saw that USA Today article and between that and the cheerleader thing, he wants to improve the image of the franchise over protecting his yes men.

 

Hate him or not, he's going in the right direction.

[onedrop]

4 hours ago, Renegade7 said:

You can't have your cake and eat it to on this one, if he pushes Allen out (which is what its starting to look like), it means he saw that USA Today article and between that and the cheerleader thing, he wants to improve the image of the franchise over protecting his yes men.

 

Hate him or not, he's going in the right direction.

offering up already despised sacrificial lambs to appease a long disgruntled and shrinking fanbase, especially in the shadow of any sexual misconduct scandal, isn't "going in the right direction". its reactionary damage control to save the brand further disgrace. snyder treats the symptom, after the fact, instead of curing the disease. we wouldn't need to "improve the IMAGE of the franchise" if it wasn't such a laughable, unprofessional **** show in the first place.

[Renegade7]

1 hour ago, onedrop said:

offering up already despised sacrificial lambs to appease a long disgruntled and shrinking fanbase, especially in the shadow of any sexual misconduct scandal, isn't "going in the right direction". its reactionary damage control to save the brand further disgrace. snyder treats the symptom, after the fact, instead of curing the disease. we wouldn't need to "improve the IMAGE of the franchise" if it wasn't such a laughable, unprofessional **** show in the first place.

 

You need to accept the fact he's not going to sell the team and not at and not standing pat with us being an embarrassment with these moves.  Otherwise your going to stay miserable on this topic, he's not going anywhere.

[TSO]

2 hours ago, Renegade7 said:

 

You need to accept the fact he's not going to sell the team and not at and not standing pat with us being an embarrassment with these moves.  Otherwise your going to stay miserable on this topic, he's not going anywhere.

 

But what happens when “accepting that fact” makes you miserable? 

 

As for the OP: 

 

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

On 5/21/2018 at 8:18 PM, joeken24 said:

Haters hate. Its what they do. A thread about Bruce or Dan will always have the same set of haters chime in. You provided reasonable information. I appreciate that. But still.....haters always have something bad to say. They never take their mothers advice about that ****.

 

Ya see, haters generally become haters through unfounded news feeds, WP propaganda, other baseless reports (like Peter King's sorry ass) and emotion. Basically sheep think. Never any real facts. Haters don't care about facts. Its better to simply hate, right?

 

Its good to see a person actually take a good hard look at things. I, like you, had my issues with how the team was going a few years back. But for me, I was never one to really get that far in the weeds about what goes on in an office I've never been in. Its always been about what happens on Sundays for me. I've got enough bull**** going on in my own office than to be worried about that ****. Notwithstanding, I took a good hard look. I see better players, better stability, no ****ed up contracts, no leaks (other than that AJ Francis ****), and for the first time and no QB controversy going into next year (unless the haters want to keep the Kirk **** going). Nice and quiet (except for the haters). 

 

They hate!! Its what they do....

 

Good Post!!!

 

 

You act as if we form our opinions based on newspaper articles.  No actually we have based our opinion on the facts, and the facts show this team has not even been close to contending since Daniel Snyder  took over.  They have been a team other fans laughed at and we've had far more bad seasons than good.  A good season around here used to be a ring, now it's defined as 9-7 and a first round playoff exit.

 

As mentioned above it's not just the lack of on the field results.  The owner of the Washington Redskins is just a bad guy who treats everyone around him like crap.  

 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

No guys, both the national and local media conspire together to create fake news on Dan in an effort to garner clicks.  The name Dan Snyder is such a click machine they can't help themselves.  Stop being sheep and believing the 'fake news'.  Contrary to their BS, Dan is a great human being and even better owner.  One really has to wonder why the media chooses to bully this poor man.

 

 

[Renegade7]

4 hours ago, thesubmittedone said:

 

But what happens when “accepting that fact” makes you miserable? 

 

 

Fair question : )

 

I try to keep it in perspective and try to enjoy the games best I can.   I can get pretty fired up about this team, but end of the day its supposed to be a distraction.  I may want to get some things off my chest, but I'm not going to let them make me miserable in May.  I can't, for multiple reasons.

[NoCalMike]

The entire GMSM debacle was the last straw for a lot of people.  Whether the organization just didn't do their due diligence to make sure the guy was sober in the first place, or floating the idea that he had relapsed as a cover for why he was fired so quickly. Either way, it was just the latest in #Redskins that offered up low hanging fruit for local & national media to mock this franchise.

 

Also, the Cousins situation doesn't look good either.  Now this is regardless of whether you think he should be here or not.  If he goes on to win anything with the Vikings, once again the narrative will find a way to make this organization look dumb.  It will be "The Redskins had this guy and couldn't build a team around him to win"  Whether that is a fair statement or not, you know that will be all the media has to say on the issue, and it won't even matter that most media also at the same time think Cousins got overpaid by the Vikings.  If they win, no one will talk about the money anymore, and I am saying this as a guy who does think he got overpaid, personally.

 

Winning cures all.  This franchise doesn't win.....consistently.  Unfortunately.

[Renegade7]

12 minutes ago, NoCalMike said:

Winning cures all.  This franchise doesn't win.....consistently.  Unfortunately.

 

No franchise is perfect, but when they're winning, a lot gets forgiven.  People will start grumbling instead if we at least start making the playoffs consistently, I'm not buying a majority of the fanbase still hating Snyder if he wins a championship.

[pjfootballer]

Winning cures all, but the problem is, we haven’t won. Hence, nothing has been cured.

 

We are still the only team in the NFL since our 14 win season in 1992, to not win 11 games in the regular season. All the expansion teams have, including the new Browns.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

1 hour ago, NoCalMike said:

The entire GMSM debacle was the last straw for a lot of people.  Whether the organization just didn't do their due diligence to make sure the guy was sober in the first place, or floating the idea that he had relapsed as a cover for why he was fired so quickly. Either way, it was just the latest in #Redskins that offered up low hanging fruit for local & national media to mock this franchise.

 

Also, the Cousins situation doesn't look good either.  Now this is regardless of whether you think he should be here or not. 

 

More than it being the last straw, I think it was also the feeling of being bamboozled.  At least for me, the highest I've felt about the franchise in quite some time was when they hired Scot and said he'd be in charge of personnel.  I foolishly thought the shenanigans were over with and they finally saw the light.  Only to find out that things were never as they were presented and have it end in embarrassing fashion.  Then they followed up that up with a Kirk franchise tag and the cherry on top - press release about no contract and it all became clear again that these folks just don't know how to get out of their own way.

 

I really don't have any idea just how much Dan knows about how all of this went down but it's going down by the guy he brought in so in essence that falls on him.

[theTruthTeller]

1 hour ago, pjfootballer said:

Winning cures all, but the problem is, we haven’t won. Hence, nothing has been cured.

 

We are still the only team in the NFL since our 14 win season in 1992, to not win 11 games in the regular season. All the expansion teams have, including the new Browns.

Last 10 games against:

Dallas 2-8

NYG 3-7

Philadelphia 5-5

NFCE 10-20

 

Acting like we're in the early stages of the Renaissance instead of fully entrenched in the Dark Ages seems premature.

[JoeJacobyHOForRIOT]

[thebluefood]

Most of you have already expressed my thoughts on Dan Snyder and his track record as a team owner and an individual so I won't further belabor those points.

 

All I have to add is that I'm at a place I never thought I'd be because I genuinely want this team to leave the D.C. market. That is not something I thought I'd even consider - not only for personal reasons but because I used to think there would be riots if they ever tried. I've made a complete 180 on both fronts and most of it can be traced directly back to decisions made over the last 20 years, which can be traced back to the team's current owner or the circumstances that allowed him to become the team's owner.  

 

And I cannot emphasize this enough: I was devoted to this team. I used to pray for wins during children's church as a boy. One of the first toys I remember having was a little squeaky hog my parents put in my crib. The first song I learned to sing when I took voice lessons was "Hail to the Redskins." I was a 'Skins fan long before I was a football fan. And recently, my first "me" purchase last year after moving up to Pennsylvania was a Super Bowl XVII Championship pennant.

 

Do you need any more proof that I'm not just some "hater" or that's been led astray by "WP propaganda?" 'Cause I got more. This is in my blood.

 

I never thought I'd want to see this team leave Washington after 80+ years but unless we see a complete overhaul in the front office - including a change of ownership - I don't want anything to do with this team apart from staying connected with the community I've found through this message board. They can go to Richmond or Norfolk for all I care. And not even winning can fix that. 

[HOF44]

Reminds me of the tale of the Scorpion and the Frog.  Dan is what he is.  He has no people skills whatsoever, runs and organization that thrives on fear and rumors. Telemarketer to NFL owner and it shows.  I honestly believe this team will never be consistently good with him as the owner.