Miami Herald: I’m done trying to understand Trump supporters. Why don’t they try to understand me?

[TD_washingtonredskins]

On 7/15/2021 at 6:10 PM, Long n Left said:

I think that many old, white men are pains in the ass, or feel “persecuted” is because they HAVE had every break in life, and when things don’t go to their liking, their way of thinking, they take it as a personal affront. Instead of self awareness that their lives have been better than 90% of the rest of the people in this world, these codgers take offense at anything that doesn’t conform to their liking, their thinking. 

I don't know if that's really the reason (I realize you're just throwing out a hypothesis). For at least the past 25-30 years these old, white men have been feeling the impact of quotas, etc. so this isn't sudden or recent where things have started not going their way or to their liking. My father joined the Secret Service in the 1970s and was told even back then how a white male could be successful, but would have his work cut out for him. 

 

So, even if similar white men in through time benefited from their skin color and gender, his generation of white men wasn't. Therefore, I don't think it's frustration due to suddenly not having something go their way...they've lived that for much of their lives. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

1 hour ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

I don't know if that's really the reason (I realize you're just throwing out a hypothesis). For at least the past 25-30 years these old, white men have been feeling the impact of quotas, etc. so this isn't sudden or recent where things have started not going their way or to their liking. My father joined the Secret Service in the 1970s and was told even back then how a white male could be successful, but would have his work cut out for him. 

 

So, even if similar white men in through time benefited from their skin color and gender, his generation of white men wasn't. Therefore, I don't think it's frustration due to suddenly not having something go their way...they've lived that for much of their lives. 

As someone who lives around primarily older white folks and plays in a golf league made up of mostly white folks, I think Long-N-Left is on to something.

 

Most of these older white folks lack any real education past high school and have good jobs, mostly blue collar, where they receive great benefits, retirement, paid time off, and large salaries for the type of work they do.  They drive nice, big trucks, have all the toys - boats, atvs's, etc., take good vacations, etc.  To hear many of them, without seeing what they drive, where they live, or all the fun they have - you'd think they have it bad.  

 

I find it kind of great, that you can be a tenured maintenance man for a biopharma company, and drive your 2021 Dodge Ram to your beach house in Ocean City.  If that's not the american dream, I don't know what is.  But to hear them tell it, it's a tough ride.  

 

To hit on something completely separate but tied to what you are saying, this exists for all types of scenarios not just tied to the color of one's skin - veteran, disabled, etc.  There are so many categories now, that it certainly 'feels' like being a white male would put you last on the list for opportunities - yet white males are constantly being promoted to bigger and better jobs to this day. 

 

 

Edited July 19, 2021 by BatteredFanSyndrome

[mistertim]

It's not the government's job to protect anyone?

 

Well I guess that makes any laws against drunk driving moot. I'm going drinking now. YOLO and good luck to everyone else on the roads tonight!

 

KEEP YUR GUBMINT PAWS OFF MUH FREEDUMS!!

Edited July 19, 2021 by mistertim

[TD_washingtonredskins]

2 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

As someone who lives around primarily older white folks and plays in a golf league made up of mostly white folks, I think Long-N-Left is on to something.

 

Most of these older white folks lack any real education past high school and have good jobs, mostly blue collar, where they receive great benefits, retirement, paid time off, and large salaries for the type of work they do.  They drive nice, big trucks, have all the toys - boats, atvs's, etc., take good vacations, etc.  To hear many of them, without seeing what they drive, where they live, or all the fun they have - you'd think they have it bad.  

 

I find it kind of great, that you can be a tenured maintenance man for a biopharma company, and drive your 2021 Dodge Ram to your beach house in Ocean City.  If that's not the american dream, I don't know what is.  But to hear them tell it, it's a tough ride.  

 

But are we talking about the same thing here? What you're describing sounds like people who aren't satisfied with what they have. They want more. Opinions about that aside, that doesn't 1) show that they were gifted any of that because they were white or 2) show that they aren't satisfied because they believe they deserve more and that "their slice" is being given to other demographics. That's the way I took LNL's post. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

2 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

 

But are we talking about the same thing here? What you're describing sounds like people who aren't satisfied with what they have. They want more. Opinions about that aside, that doesn't 1) show that they were gifted any of that because they were white or 2) show that they aren't satisfied because they believe they deserve more and that "their slice" is being given to other demographics. That's the way I took LNL's post. 

I don't know what the psychology behind it is.  I just know that a lot of old white men have had a fantastic ride through this thing called life given how much effort they actually put into it, yet seem to always be ****ing and moaning about how unfair everything is.  

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Just now, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I don't know what the psychology behind it is.  I just know that a lot of old white men have had a fantastic ride through this thing called life given how much effort they actually put into it, yet seem to always be ****ing and moaning about how unfair everything is.  

OK, well a "fantastic ride" is all relative. I also think it's a bit dismissive to portray blue collar workers as not working hard. Maybe you don't think they earned the salaries and perks based on the level of education, but I know plenty of blue collar guys (of all races) who work their ass off. I'd say they've earned whatever they've gotten. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

7 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

OK, well a "fantastic ride" is all relative. I also think it's a bit dismissive to portray blue collar workers as not working hard. Maybe you don't think they earned the salaries and perks based on the level of education, but I know plenty of blue collar guys (of all races) who work their ass off. I'd say they've earned whatever they've gotten. 

I'm not diminishing blue collar work in the least, as the term blue collar casts a very wide net.  There are plenty of blue collar jobs aren't exactly digging ditches in 90 degree heat.  While a 'fantastic ride' may be relative, I'd consider being a high school educated dude that doesn't have to sweat while he works, that always has a new vehicle and a beach house - to be on a fantastic ride.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

3 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I'm not diminishing blue collar work in the least, as the term blue collar casts a very wide net.  There are plenty of blue collar jobs aren't exactly digging ditches in 90 degree heat.  While a 'fantastic ride' may be relative, I'd consider being a high school educated dude that doesn't have to sweat while he works, that always has a new vehicle and a beach house - to be on a fantastic ride.

Yeah, not bad at all...I'd take it too! 

 

I guess I just don't get the connection from a few of those guys who aren't satisfied or are bitter they don't have more to feeling "persecuted" or believing they are owed more breaks. Unless, of course, that's what they're saying to you. 

[TheGreatBuzz]

39 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

hit on something completely separate but tied to what you are saying, this exists for all types of scenarios not just tied to the color of one's skin - veteran, disabled, etc.  There are so many categories now, that it certainly 'feels' like being a white male would put you last on the list for opportunities - yet white males are constantly being promoted to bigger and better jobs to this day. 

Not sure I understand the mention of these groups here…..

[88Comrade2000]

41 minutes ago, mistertim said:

It's not the government's job to protect anyone?

 

Well I guess that makes any laws against drunk driving moot. I'm going drinking now. YOLO and good luck to everyone else on the roads tonight!

 

KEEP YUR GUBMINT PAWS OFF MUH FREEDUMS!!

Time to shut down the defense department then.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

17 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

Not sure I understand the mention of these groups here…..

Categories of preference for jobs.

[goskins10]

@Long n Left   @BatteredFanSyndrome  @TD_washingtonredskins

 

As one of said old white guys, let me help you out. Maybe you know all this but maybe seeing it in print will help.

 

It's not that they (I say they as I do not agree with their POV) didn't work hard to get what they got. What they fail to realize is that for the longest time at pretty much every turn when society could give them the benefit of the doubt or not give the benefit of the doubt, it went their way, at least 85% of the time or more.  Getting a mortgage was easier - not easy but easier. Getting a loan was easier, not easy but easier. Buying a car was easier, not easy but easier. Access to higher education was easier as was entry level jobs that could turn into careers. They had access to better education typically starting from elementary school. And when funds were available to upgrade schools, guess what the "colored" schools got nothing.  And since everything was run by predominantly white folks, it went that way for everything. They had access to other people with money that many POC do not have. 

 

Driving down the road, your car swerves - old white guy (or woman for that matter) they maybe watch them but if it doesn't happen again they move on. If it does, they might pull them over and unless they were spitting drunk or clear evidence of drugs, it's please be more careful and go home. If it's a black driver or POC they get pulled over immediately and the car searched. If they are lucky that's where it stops. You walk into a store - white person gets asked if they can be helped, POC is watched for stealing. You need welfare? Go to the welfare office and the white person gets all the attention they request where POC are often made to wait or given only partial information. There is more predatory lending so cars cost more houses cost more, making it harder to accumulate wealth. 

 

It's not a single big thing. It's all parts of life in the US. But over the last 20 to 30 yrs other ethnicities have grown in numbers, gotten some people in places of authority, gotten some laws passed and so now things are not so one sided. Don't get me wrong, it's still horribly lopsided in many ways but the needle is moving and those that have been given the benefit of the doubt for their whole life do not like losing that power. They feel it's owed to them. They had it their whole life. And look I have taken advantage of it. I will not lie. 

 

The problem lies in that they feel like they are being made less than by losing some of this power. They are not seeing that elevating everyone else gives you more opportunity also. They think it's an either or situation and it doesn't have to be that way, at least not with everything. Strength is found within. If you truly believe life to be equal you should not be afraid of competing fairly. But when you have had centuries of it not being fair, would you like losing it - in your mind - all of a sudden?

 

Again, I don't agree at all. I am moving back to the city to get away from the red country I am in right now. I had a ranger at the golf course think it was OK to tell a homophobic joke. I have had guys start talking **** about liberals' and especially now Biden. I shut them down pretty quick as they cannot tolerate logic and facts. They devolve into rhetoric and dog whistle garbage. But that's easy to dismantle in person. You make them answer actual questions not just get away with making blind statements. 

 

Ok, that's enough of that 🙂  Hopefully that provides at least some insight. If not, well it was a bit cathartic writing it. So there is that. 

 

 

Edited July 20, 2021 by goskins10
typos

[China]

New Jersey woman who refuses to believe 2020 election result is ordered to remove four pro-Trump posters - including one that says 'f*** Biden' - or pay a daily $250 fine after neighbors complained

 

A judge has ordered a New Jersey woman to remove four of six pro-Trump banners hanging on her fence because they displayed profanity, including one showing the former president extending two middle fingers over the words 'f*** Biden.' 

 

While the 2020 election between Trump and Joe Biden was decided in November and certified in Janaury, Roselle Park resident Andrea Dick refused to believe the results and hung up the banners. 

 

Municipal Court Judge Gary Bundy ordered Dick - and her mother, Patricia Dilascio who owns the property -  to take down the flags or face a daily fine of $250.  

 

Click on the link for the full article

[Simmsy]

35 minutes ago, China said:

New Jersey woman who refuses to believe 2020 election result is ordered to remove four pro-Trump posters - including one that says 'f*** Biden' - or pay a daily $250 fine after neighbors complained

 

A judge has ordered a New Jersey woman to remove four of six pro-Trump banners hanging on her fence because they displayed profanity, including one showing the former president extending two middle fingers over the words 'f*** Biden.' 

 

While the 2020 election between Trump and Joe Biden was decided in November and certified in Janaury, Roselle Park resident Andrea Dick refused to believe the results and hung up the banners. 

 

Municipal Court Judge Gary Bundy ordered Dick - and her mother, Patricia Dilascio who owns the property -  to take down the flags or face a daily fine of $250.  

 

Click on the link for the full article

Not sure how I feel about this one, but has anyone else noticed that all of the Obama and Biden flags have been long gone? These people love their loser flags...

[TheGreatBuzz]

If they were just Trump flags or whatever, I’d have an issue.  But it sounds like the issue is the profanity.  I’m fine with them making her remove that.

[redskinss]

I wonder if that's her last name or just a good troll job from the writer.

[Cooked Crack]

 

[Cooked Crack]

 

[Larry]

So, God can't make it happen, if he tells you about it?  

 

Wouldn't "God made me promise not to tell" have been more believable?  (Slightly?)

[Cooked Crack]

 

 

[CobraCommander]

51 minutes ago, Cooked Crack said:

 

 

Antiva owning the libs.

[mistertim]

1 hour ago, Larry said:

So, God can't make it happen, if he tells you about it?  

 

Wouldn't "God made me promise not to tell" have been more believable?  (Slightly?)

 

Yeah that really seems to throw a monkey wrench in the whole "God is omnipotent, omnipresent and omniscient" thing.

[EmirOfShmo]

1 hour ago, mistertim said:

 

Yeah that really seems to throw a monkey wrench in the whole "God is omnipotent, omnipresent and omniscient" thing.

...or visible. 

[GhostofSparta]

2 hours ago, Larry said:

So, God can't make it happen, if he tells you about it?  

No. God can't make it happen if Biden knows about it. Biden's more powerful than God now, what with the dethroning and all.

[NoCalMike]

How is it 2021 and we are still mischaracterizing what the term "white privilege" means? It has nothing to do with saying white people didn't work hard or had all the easy paths in life.  It is merely saying skin color did not present obstacles to them that is obviously does to minorities in a lot of cases.  Generally speaking of course.  If you feel that the strive for equal opportunity is taking something away from you, then how can you not also acknowledge that you have benefit from unequal opportunity?  

 

It isn't a tough concept to understand, but a very easy one to mischaracterize. 

 

EDIT: Just to follow up and expand on this, I think we see a lot of situations where rural whites are displaced from their jobs/industries/etc etc and they are listening to the garbage "news" programs that are trying to lay it on the feet of minorities & immigrants when in reality they were likely either working for an outdated industry that was going away eventually anyway or their greed driven companies moved overseas to maximize profits and eliminate tax obligations.  I won't say economic anxiety has nothing to do with the hostility, but they are allowing themselves to be used as culture war prop dummies when they look the wrong direction with the ire.

Edited July 21, 2021 by NoCalMike