RandyHolt Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 I wonder if Guice dropped on draft day for being damaged goods. The philly story sure seemed really far fetched. If true, amazingly, yet another possible indictment of the ineptitude of our medical staff. Pumping iron and posting videos of it doesn't mean he can cut, but it sure may fool our crack med staff. Yeah football is a marathon not a sprint but 10 carries is hardly a unworldly sprint even for a guy 13 months after an injury. If the same knee got injured I would readily admit he came back too soon (and blame you know who). But the band aid eventually had to be ripped off and week 1 seemed a fine time after a decent test in preseason. I suspect that is probably when he got injured. In the end I would rather know now that he has 2 bad knees vs give him a smattering of carries over 16 weeks and go through the next off season thinking he can be a workhorse back. Fool me once.... ah... shame on you. I have to eat crow I didn't like the AP re-signing at the time. But that is looking like a fantastic signing like it was a year ago. Wow Jay looks bad even though AP may have had to have another 90 yard run to avoid being 10 for 18 like Guice. Philly is stout and going pass happy appears to have been our best approach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 Guice is coming off an ACL injury and just played his first game. Writing him off after that is classic Extremeskins wisdom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 Can't write Guice off already. But, this is why keeping Peterson active is important. Guice is coming off of an ACL tear. That is a major injury. And as most know, there is risk of injury to the opposite side of a knee injury in the initial comeback. I don't think Guice should be kept in bubble wrap. Dude needs to play or he's never going to get back into form... But having AP suited up gives the team an active replacement for Guice in the case of injury... it also gives the team Adrian ****ing Peterson. I liked what Guice showed. I think he got hurt early and fought through it thinking it was relatively minor. And he still played hard. He has a very bright future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llevron Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 14 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said: Guice is coming off an ACL injury and just played his first game. Writing him off after that is classic Extremeskins wisdom. I feel you, but he did injure his other knee after his first game back and now is supposed to be out for a few weeks. Its not hard to make the leap that his body cant take it. I am more than a little worried about his future here if im being honest with myself. If nothing else this is a serious set back for him and makes trusting all the carries to him going forward harder to do. And thats what hes here for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsmania123 Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 2 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said: Guice is coming off an ACL injury and just played his first game. Writing him off after that is classic Extremeskins wisdom. I don't think it is about the ACL injury and writing him off. I think it is more, we have another injury now - the meniscus in the other leg. So is the guy durable? He has to get on the field, get carries so we can see what we do have. Now to avoid surgery they have to rest him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justice98 Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 A wise man by the name of Anthony Stark once said, and I'm paraphrasing, "A running back establishing a history of knee injuries on both knees, historically, not awesome". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoDeep81 Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 All I know is (and truthfully I don't watch a crap ton of NFL) but I can watch "good" teams line up and play and play and play and nobody gets hurt.. Tune in on any given play for the Skins and someone is being shown on the sideline limping around, getting carted off, getting mri's after the game.. Just baffles the brains how often were injured. (Nothing to see here Dan, just bad luck.. For decades on end.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dballer Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 8 minutes ago, GoDeep81 said: All I know is (and truthfully I don't watch a crap ton of NFL) but I can watch "good" teams line up and play and play and play and nobody gets hurt.. Tune in on any given play for the Skins and someone is being shown on the sideline limping around, getting carted off, getting mri's after the game.. Just baffles the brains how often were injured. (Nothing to see here Dan, just bad luck.. For decades on end.) Some Teams with comparable 2018 IR numbers to the Skins - Eagles, Seahawks, Panthers, Patriots Everyone has injuries. Good teams have depth. We have Adrian Peterson to fill in for Guice. Settle to fill in for Allen. Next man up. Notable injuries in week 1 - Tyreek Hill (shoulder), Jimmy Smith (Knee), Nick Foles (shoulder), Joe Mixon (ankle), Mike Williams (knee). During the Pats/Steelers game the following left and did not return: TJ Watt, Maurkice Pouncey, Joe Haden, JuJu, Marcus Cannon. Welcome to the NFL boys! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShineP Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 Bottom line: Gruden made a mistake in benching AP for the inexperienced and still injured Guice. Let's hope this doesn't hurt the Skins this year and they go on to have a decent record and playoffs aspirations. In hindsight, he should have started AP, brought Guice in for spells and as the season wore on, rotated the backs as often as possible. Poor handling of the RB situation but we have been down this road before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peregrine Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 50 minutes ago, dballer said: Some Teams with comparable 2018 IR numbers to the Skins - Eagles, Seahawks, Panthers, Patriots Everyone has injuries. Good teams have depth. This is completely false Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arftech Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 The medical staff in Ashburn is horrendous! What in the hell is going on over there??? The Athletic Daily reported Guice was cleared to go back in the game after consulting with the team doctors/trainers. They probably have the worst medical staff in the league and no wonder Trent is pissed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyHolt Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 One thing I want Keim to find out, did Jay turn to CT because of injury? Maybe CT in was really just the load share many wanted to see, to ease Guice in. Or maybe CT in the 2nd half was the game plan all along, and Jay just followed the script and wanted a curveball thrown/expected us to be losing big. If he wanted to ditch the run game entirely after the first half, I fully endorse that too, since passing proved mega fruitful in the first half. I do find it telling/odd that Guice got a snap in the 4th quarter. Maybe coaches saw he was injured in that snap? Let's collectively figure out when Guice got injured - Keim and you beatniks lurking here - get on it! We cannot lose our prize back of the future - this is a big story. As a coach I'd want to see how heavy of a hit it was. Did the injury fit the hit, so to speak. Vs., did he tear something in his knee running in a straight line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dballer Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 1 hour ago, Peregrine said: This is completely false Which part exactly? The #'s or the fact that good teams have depth? Reserve/Injured List By Team Cap/Cash totals for players who have been or are currently on the reserve/injured list through the current week. TEAM PLAYERS 2018 CAP 2018 CASH Washington Redskins 25 $25,047,565 $15,103,903 Denver Broncos 24 $15,397,421 $12,751,446 San Francisco 49ers 23 $54,341,230 $20,066,261 Carolina Panthers 23 $19,233,921 $11,575,415 Seattle Seahawks 22 $21,620,233 $15,987,802 Jacksonville Jaguars 21 $15,408,758 $12,700,293 Oakland Raiders 21 $15,236,243 $10,509,637 Philadelphia Eagles 20 $27,930,843 $19,056,321 New England Patriots 20 $12,004,695 $6,222,727 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 2 hours ago, Llevron said: I feel you, but he did injure his other knee after his first game back and now is supposed to be out for a few weeks. Its not hard to make the leap that his body cant take it. I am more than a little worried about his future here if im being honest with myself. If nothing else this is a serious set back for him and makes trusting all the carries to him going forward harder to do. And thats what hes here for. I think it's possible that he has biomechanical issues in his running style that stress his knees, but sometimes football injuries are flukes. And if Derrick Rose can come back from all his injuries at 30 with all of his biomechanical movement issues, then Guice can work through his as well. Regardless, the forum is jumping the gun on Guice big time. Not getting any traction against that defense behind this offensive line, in your first game, when you're probably still a little scared about your knee is not a referendum on his talent or potential. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShineP Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 32 minutes ago, RandyHolt said: One thing I want Keim to find out, did Jay turn to CT because of injury? Maybe CT in was really just the load share many wanted to see, to ease Guice in. Or maybe CT in the 2nd half was the game plan all along, and Jay just followed the script and wanted a curveball thrown/expected us to be losing big. If he wanted to ditch the run game entirely after the first half, I fully endorse that too, since passing proved mega fruitful in the first half. I do find it telling/odd that Guice got a snap in the 4th quarter. Maybe coaches saw he was injured in that snap? Let's collectively figure out when Guice got injured - Keim and you beatniks lurking here - get on it! We cannot lose our prize back of the future - this is a big story. As a coach I'd want to see how heavy of a hit it was. Did the injury fit the hit, so to speak. Vs., did he tear something in his knee running in a straight line. It was also reported that Guice went into the game favoring his knee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoCalMike Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 A player favoring their non-surgically repaired knee in their first few games back from said surgery is completely normal. It is a mental thing. It doesn't mean he was necessarily hurt going into the game. However, with that said, the coaching staff and medical staff should have been prepared for this and had AP active for this very reason. You can't tell me with a straight face that coming out of halftime down 20-7, the Eagles defense would have been looking forward to facing off against AP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 1 hour ago, dballer said: Everyone has injuries. Good teams have depth. I'm not sure any team could survive where our injuries were clustered though. Your two QBs and all of your offensive linemen going down would sink the Patriots too. Clearly we're also not that good and deep of a team. We're doing well just to have a core of playmakers that are good. We're not at the point in a build where we have successfully groomed depth all over the roster. The only part of the roster that looks built is the front seven. We basically just started laying the foundation on offense. We need injury luck in order to compete against our schedule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 Jay did a good play fake coming into this game. Talked up running the ball. Instead, he thew the ball like crazy and out of 11 personnel. Eagles are stout against the run. Clearly, Jay didn't plan to pound the rock so who cares if he gave Peterson 5 out of the 10 carries Guice got. Guice got a light work load and clearly Jay knew that's how it would unfold because it was his game plan. If they planned to pound the rock and Guice got 25 carries, I'd feel differently. But context matters. Context is everything. I started rewatching the game and understand why Guice got a good PFF score. As @MartinC stated, good pass blocking and he was a decent catching the ball. Both things by the way are Peterson's weaknesses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dballer Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 Just now, stevemcqueen1 said: I'm not sure any team could survive where our injuries were clustered though. Your two QBs and all of your offensive linemen going down would sink the Patriots too. Clearly we're also not that good and deep of a team. We're doing well just to have a core of playmakers that are good. We're not at the point in a build where we have successfully groomed depth all over the roster. The only part of the roster that looks built is the front seven. We basically just started laying the foundation on offense. We need injury luck in order to compete against our schedule. 100%. Where the injuries happen matters. And we are a little more unlucky than most. But it isn't some curse, I doubt it is the medical staff...it is probably more like bad luck. I just think it is crazy to blame stuff like broken legs on the med staff. Also, we don't help our odds. We draft guys with injury histories. It is why Allen fell to us. Guice had a knee issue in college. You hope these guys can bounce back and stay healthy, but injuries happen every week. Teams lose important pieces. It's a tough sport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 47 minutes ago, RandyHolt said: I do find it telling/odd that Guice got a snap in the 4th quarter. Maybe coaches saw he was injured in that snap? Let's collectively figure out when Guice got injured - Keim and you beatniks lurking here - get on it! We cannot lose our prize back of the future - this is a big story. As a coach I'd want to see how heavy of a hit it was. Did the injury fit the hit, so to speak. Vs., did he tear something in his knee running in a straight line. According to an Athletic article I just read, Guice felt the soreness after the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boss_Hogg Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 “Everyone in the building besides Gruden thinks AP is the better back,” Damning piece about Gruden. He's a dead man walking https://theathletic.com/1198055/2019/09/10/derrius-guices-misdiagnosis-adrian-petersons-resurrection-and-jay-gruden-channeling-sinatra/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bakedtater1 Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 4 minutes ago, Boss_Hogg said: “Everyone in the building besides Gruden thinks AP is the better back,” Damning piece about Gruden. He's a dead man walking https://theathletic.com/1198055/2019/09/10/derrius-guices-misdiagnosis-adrian-petersons-resurrection-and-jay-gruden-channeling-sinatra/ With his handling of the rb situation did it warm his seat up a bit?..I couldn't read the article Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 23 minutes ago, bakedtater1 said: With his handling of the rb situation did it warm his seat up a bit?..I couldn't read the article I read it, nothing really inflammatory in it aside from that quote. Paulsen talking about it now, he thinks by the "building" that's a player talking as opposed to the FO. Maybe Moses doubling down. Peterson is very popular in that locker room. I get that. But I am with Sheehan on this point, the players haven't won squat so they should stay quiet -- they haven't earned anything. It's not good for the culture to be openly questioning your coach like that. Personally I wouldn't have deactivated Peterson for drama reasons. And i said so before this unfolded. But I get the decision on a football basis if it was confined to that game specifically. I disagree if its about running most of the season that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 10 minutes ago, dballer said: 100%. Where the injuries happen matters. And we are a little more unlucky than most. But it isn't some curse, I doubt it is the medical staff...it is probably more like bad luck. I just think it is crazy to blame stuff like broken legs on the med staff. Also, we don't help our odds. We draft guys with injury histories. It is why Allen fell to us. Guice had a knee issue in college. You hope these guys can bounce back and stay healthy, but injuries happen every week. Teams lose important pieces. It's a tough sport. You're right that we don't help our odds, and you're right that football is brutal. Wear and tear injuries comparable to any other sport plus a very high number of acute injuries caused by the hard contact. The Redskins FO needs to modernize its systems of player personnel scouting to go much deeper in their analysis of medical evaluations. The Wizards have had such awful injury luck over the last 30 years that they are experimenting with a front office structure that has basically hired a management team to GM the organization that includes medical experts. And they've started tracking all kinds of medical information points to perform deep analytics on in order to avoid injury prone players. The Redskins are going to have to start doing the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llevron Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 34 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said: Jay did a good play fake coming into this game. Talked up running the ball. Instead, he thew the ball like crazy and out of 11 personnel. Eagles are stout against the run. Clearly, Jay didn't plan to pound the rock so who cares if he gave Peterson 5 out of the 10 carries Guice got. Guice got a light work load and clearly Jay knew that's how it would unfold because it was his game plan. If they planned to pound the rock and Guice got 25 carries, I'd feel differently. But context matters. Context is everything. I started rewatching the game and understand why Guice got a good PFF score. As @MartinC stated, good pass blocking and he was a decent catching the ball. Both things by the way are Peterson's weaknesses. Very good perspective here. Almost makes it make sense. And it makes his comments about "if we have a game where we can run it 55 times' make much more sense. He had already determined the weakness of the defense he was against and how he was going to attack it and that helped him decide to sit AP as -- if things went according to plan -- we wouldnt need him. I do like this about Gruden. I dont think it worked well, but I like where his mind was if this was the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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