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Evaluating Jay Gruden in 2018

Voice_of_Reason

By Voice_of_Reason
in The Stadium

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Peregrine

Peregrine

Posted
Posted
On 12/14/2018 at 3:12 PM, goskins10 said:

 

You and burgold both responded as if I was stating he should be kept on as HC. Please tell me where I said that. In fact I stated emphatically that it's time to move on. 

 

Let me make this easier:  I BELIEVE THE BEST THING FOR THE WASHINGTON REDSKINS IS TO FIRE JAY GRUDEN ALONG WITH BRUCE ALLEN!

 

So the only cop out is that you like a few others did not actually read the comment. You just saw someone say you can't blame Jay for everything since it's a totally ****ed up FO organization and went to town with a response that he still needs to go. 

 

My point was/is and will always be that just because it's time for him to move on you can't jut pile on him and blame him for things that you could in a traditional organization. You can say all that stuff about self-respecting coaches, but you are not in the room. You do not know the dynamics. I don't either. For that matter, maybe he is making every single decision and hiding behind Bruce! The fact is we do not know and that's the point.

 

What we do know is that Bruce is president and likes power as he has spent the last 9 yrs gathering said power. We also know he has made some final decisions because he has said so and others have said he has over-ruled others in the room. We also know he is BFFs with Dan. Is that really that big a stretch to come to the conclusion that despite how it's supposed to work that instead Bruce is deciding the assistants and making last calls on personnel against the wishes of the HC? Or that Dan is still pulling strings? 

 

It's easy to say just quit or walk away or force their hand. But there are still only 32 NFL HCing jobs. He has been here 5 yrs and his family is here and stable. It's just not as easy as it sounds sitting behind a computer when it's not your job to walk away from.  

No, no, no.  I didnt respond to that, maybe you didnt read MY post.  I responded to "

Yea, everything is completely under his control. He has total say over everything to do with the Redskins. I think you know better than that even if you don;t want to admit it. 

 

The only thing we know for a fact is that the Redskins have purposely not created a traditional organization. So your assumption that Jay made the Joe Barry decision and other personnel decisions and that he can simply fire him if he is not doing his job, is just that, an assumption. "


There is no difference between being the head coach and making that decision, and being the headcoach without the nerve to demand you make that decision.  Both are massive failures, both are Grudens fault, and both are on him as well as on Allen.  And its also a cop out towards the way we should view Gruden to pretend otherwise and that Gruden MAY have had less responsibility purely because you reason its possible.

 

And this whole "not as easy" also holds no water.  No one pretended its an easy decision to tell your boss your demands, but guess what, good people that are good at their job do hard things all of the time.  Its life, and its something that HC's do, and something that people sitting behind a computer also do, every day.

 

You said it, theres only 32 HC jobs, and if Jay Gruden doesnt have the balls to stand up for his team to a bad President and Owner, then hes bad at his job and theres a lot of other people that would kill for it.

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TheYappingDog

TheYappingDog

Posted
Posted
Just now, Burgold said:

What would it take to revise your opinion of Jay Gruden? Can anything be done to change your mind this season?

 

For all my doom/blow it all up on the insomnia thread - if they convincingly won the last 3 with JJ looking competent, good defense, teams, time managment, playcalling and not getting humiliated in the playoffs - that would change my mind on Gruden

 

That said, i'm in my current mindset as I've not seen anything like the above in gruden's tenure here, I pretty sure he is what he is

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Peregrine

Peregrine

Posted
Posted
35 minutes ago, Burgold said:

What would it take to revise your opinion of Jay Gruden? Can anything be done to change your mind this season?

Not for me, we've seen him for 5 years.  If hes been bad enough for 5 years to be fired, 2-3 games should not change that to anyone who is being rational about it.

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Burgold

Burgold

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Posted

End of the half against Jacksonville was classic Gruden. Jay goes throws in the towel in on last two minutes, trying just to burn clock and leave the field, but leaves enough time on the board for his hyperconservatism to cost him the lead.

 

Would it be different if he had gone for it? Probably. 

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88Comrade2000

88Comrade2000

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, Burgold said:

What would it take to revise your opinion of Jay Gruden? Can anything be done to change your mind this season?

Nothing.  Anyone thinks Gruden will be any different are deluding themselves.  Jay can be here 5 more years and you will get the exact same results.

 

Jay just needs to be let go after the Philly game but we all know, Snyder will buy the injury excuse and no change will be made

2019, everything is crashing; so there will be no way Jay and Bruce will be able use the injury excuse again.  Double digit losses are in store for 2019 and there's a strong chance we will be flirting with the franchise record for losses (13).

 

I'd prefer to make the chance now, so the next coach can start the rebuild.  All Jay and Bruce is going to do is patchwork; thinking the injuries robbed us.

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clskinsfan

clskinsfan

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Posted
1 hour ago, UK SKINS FAN '74 said:

 

No. This is the natural point to call it a day.

 

Yeah. I am ready for a change as well. But this win was a HUGE win for him to make a point about keeping his job. I mean the guy is playing his 4th QB and no guards. he gets strapped with penalties on offense constantly and still find s away to win the game. 

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Burgold

Burgold

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Can someone tell me why it took over a half for Gruden to figure out that it was okay to roll Johnson out of the pocket? Mobile QB, bad offensive line, etc. You'd think that making the QB not a sitting duck when his most effective weapon was his legs would have been the game plan going in.

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Warhead36

Warhead36

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Posted

I think Gruden will use games like today to justify keeping his job. Basically he'll point to today, and the 6-3 start, and tell FO/ownership: "Hey look, my gameplan going into the season was sound: run the ball, play good D, win the turnover and field position battle, and grind our way to 10 wins. The plan was working until my starting QB broke his leg." And in fairness, it is a good argument. That doesn't excuse all the little mistakes Gruden mistakes repeatedly on gamedays but his overall big picture strategy for the season(based on the personnel we had)was sound.

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OVCChairman

OVCChairman

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14 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

I think Gruden will use games like today to justify keeping his job. Basically he'll point to today, and the 6-3 start, and tell FO/ownership: "Hey look, my gameplan going into the season was sound: run the ball, play good D, win the turnover and field position battle, and grind our way to 10 wins. The plan was working until my starting QB broke his leg." And in fairness, it is a good argument. That doesn't excuse all the little mistakes Gruden mistakes repeatedly on gamedays but his overall big picture strategy for the season(based on the personnel we had)was sound.

 

You're probably right... 

 

but in fairness, anyone who has any experience with football, even just being an avid fan for multiple years, can see that a lot of the wins were generally at the hands of the players, and Jay was not the primary factor in that.  In fact, quite a bit of our gameplan was bad, but playmakers making plays was enough to overcome that.  Adrian Peterson leads the league in runs resulting in negative yards.  A fair amount of that has to do with the injuries, but a lot of that has to do with the gameplan not being adjusted to compensate for those injuries.  It also has to do with this stubborn attitude to force AP to mold to our run system out of the shotgun, instead of noticing very early on how much better he is out of the single back or I-formation.  

 

i can't tell you how many times i watched AP break out of a busted play (even when we were healthy) and turn a loss into a first down... Gruden gets NO credit for that imho, but the sheet tells a different story... if that's all they're looking at to make a judgement.  10 wins seems like it's a universe away, but I guess anything could happen.  Being a Redskins fan as long as I have I also look at the "because Redskins" effect.  So knowing that we'll probably win the next 2 on some fluke, Jay will get an extension, Bruce will go to Dan and find a way to weasel another year out of him.... we'll draft a QB and when we lay an egg next year because of the cap ramifications, we'll fire Jay mid season and completely fumble the opportunity to rebuild the right way.... top to bottom.   

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Thinking Skins

Thinking Skins

Posted
Posted
16 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

I think Gruden will use games like today to justify keeping his job. Basically he'll point to today, and the 6-3 start, and tell FO/ownership: "Hey look, my gameplan going into the season was sound: run the ball, play good D, win the turnover and field position battle, and grind our way to 10 wins. The plan was working until my starting QB broke his leg." And in fairness, it is a good argument. That doesn't excuse all the little mistakes Gruden mistakes repeatedly on gamedays but his overall big picture strategy for the season(based on the personnel we had)was sound.

The thing is, every coach makes mistakes and has problems with gameplans, and things like adjusting their system to flaws and players. Even the timeouts is something that is pretty common now. 

 

What frustrates me about Gruden the most is that he seems to be coaching to save his job this year. Like, i mean bringing in Sanchez and Johnson and s bunch of bums on the OL. This wouldn't have frustrated me if we didn't go through a similar situation last year and we brought in talented young guys who could be in the team in the future, one of whom was Bibbs. This year we signed so many over the hill guys that it was frustrating. I don't want to develop Psrriman or Floyd, but Cobbs would have been nice. There are some young OL guys we could develop, there are young secondary guys, young lbs. Gruden, Scot and co were good with finding guys off the street who were young with potential. And aside from the whole who to sign question, there's the who to play question. Why do our young guys almost never play until they're forced to. I think this is a coaching philosophy but how can we praise Johnson, Stroman and Alexander as these good young players but be afraid to play them until Dunny goes down? And SDH and JLC should have been getting a lot more snaps on D. I think this team doesn't prepare for injuries well because our depth doesn't play at all and likely doesn't practice either. Thats my main problem with Jay this year and it's frustrating because it's not something I was critical about before with him. 

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KDawg

KDawg

Posted
Posted
28 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

The thing is, every coach makes mistakes and has problems with gameplans, and things like adjusting their system to flaws and players. Even the timeouts is something that is pretty common now. 

 

What frustrates me about Gruden the most is that he seems to be coaching to save his job this year. Like, i mean bringing in Sanchez and Johnson and s bunch of bums on the OL. This wouldn't have frustrated me if we didn't go through a similar situation last year and we brought in talented young guys who could be in the team in the future, one of whom was Bibbs. This year we signed so many over the hill guys that it was frustrating. I don't want to develop Psrriman or Floyd, but Cobbs would have been nice. There are some young OL guys we could develop, there are young secondary guys, young lbs. Gruden, Scot and co were good with finding guys off the street who were young with potential. And aside from the whole who to sign question, there's the who to play question. Why do our young guys almost never play until they're forced to. I think this is a coaching philosophy but how can we praise Johnson, Stroman and Alexander as these good young players but be afraid to play them until Dunny goes down? And SDH and JLC should have been getting a lot more snaps on D. I think this team doesn't prepare for injuries well because our depth doesn't play at all and likely doesn't practice either. Thats my main problem with Jay this year and it's frustrating because it's not something I was critical about before with him. 

 

the Bibbs equation is one of my absolute biggest question marks. Unless there was some locker room issue, I just don't understand it. And even if there was a locker room issue, you just let a guy say **** the team and **** the fans to a random person on social media and did nothing about it. So that's an inconsistent stance. Honestly, up until the minute he was cut, he was the best third down back on the team at the moment.

 

I just don't get the logic there. 

 

But beyond that I think Gruden has been somewhat decent in his evaluation of players. Especially given the guys that have leaked he really liked (Matt Ioan for one). 

 

To reiterate my stance on Gruden, which I've posted a few times now, but with some new clarifications:

 

I don't think Gruden is here another 5 years. So drafting a young QB for him to develop is a mistake. But if the ultimate mistake of keeping Allen comes through, then I think getting a new HC may only compound that mistake. I 100% believe those two should be tied together. if Brucey goes, Gruden needs to. If Allen stays, Gruden stays. Keeping Allen makes no sense whatsoever, but keeping him and getting rid of Gruden is a mistake in that we are handcuffing a new HC within this flawed structure and we are bound to continue the same cycle anyways. We may as well keep some continuity going and see what happens in that worst case scenario. 

 

But again, the team should get rid of Allen, and by proxy Gruden, and hire an agency to find the best President/GM candidates and then rebuild the FO and coaching staff from there.

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TD_washingtonredskins

TD_washingtonredskins

Posted
Posted
14 minutes ago, KDawg said:

But again, the team should get rid of Allen, and by proxy Gruden, and hire an agency to find the best President/GM candidates and then rebuild the FO and coaching staff from there.

I would love if they do that. 

 

My only clarification or amendment would be not to fire anyone but Allen until that new President/GM takes over. Once the new GM is in place, allow them to make decisions on existing people. I think it would be very unlikely that there aren't SOME assets currently in-house who a new GM might want. 

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