Evaluating Jay Gruden in 2018

[Conn]

2 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

@ConnSKINS26 you are probably right.

 

Maybe they struggle as much as Gruden does without Ben and Aaron. 

 

I'm saying, I'd be at least willing to give it a try over this guy.

 

I'd prefer they didn't hire either one, and I doubt either one would come here with our cap situation anyway.  I don't know who the ideal fit is, however there is a completely separate thread for this discussion, so I'll leave it there. 

 

Good point. 

 

I'll just say that if the decision was stick with Gruden or go to one of these guys, especially Tomlin, I'd say of course give me something new and see what shakes out. Better than the status quo. But like you, I'd prefer to hope that neither are a realistic option for whatever GM we hire in this dream scenario. 

[veteranskinsfan]

Do not want Tomlin.  He has been living off some good players for a long time.  He is so over-rated as a Head Coach.  I wonder what Ben really thinks of him too.

[50yrSKINSfan]

1 hour ago, OVCChairman said:

 

 

Jay signed an extension a couple years ago that has him on his deal THROUGH the 2020 season, so he's got 2 years after this one to go. 

Well I was afraid of that. Don't know why I thought Jay was done after this year. I know DS is such a cheap ass that he will not fire a guy that he has to pay for sitting by the pool the next 2 years. Looks like we are stuck with Jaybird for awhile. And the hits just keep on coming.

[WelshSkinsFan]

Right now I want Gregg Williams.  Cleveland are tying themselves in knots trying to come up with a reason not to hire him.  He has ties to the organization, is Gibbs approved and would personally beat the snot of every one of those bums on Defense after a showing like yesterday.  Of course we do need to find him a good OC.

[OVCChairman]

1 minute ago, 50yrSKINSfan said:

Well I was afraid of that. Don't know why I thought Jay was done after this year. I know DS is such a cheap ass that he will not fire a guy that he has to pay for sitting by the pool the next 2 years. Looks like we are stuck with Jaybird for awhile. And the hits just keep on coming.

 

 

It was speculated that they did it to try and convince our previous QB to stay at a discount because there was a long term commitment to the system... its also thought that they did it to try and save face from the divorce with said QB because they could then hide behind the notion that he was 'wanted' because they had "invested in the system"

 

Indont necessarily think that ties jay up here for this offseason as theyre going to look like a scapegoat.  Were getting very close to the territory of it making more sense to pay this coaching staff to not be here.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

16 minutes ago, WelshSkinsFan said:

Right now I want Gregg Williams.  Cleveland are tying themselves in knots trying to come up with a reason not to hire him.  He has ties to the organization, is Gibbs approved and would personally beat the snot of every one of those bums on Defense after a showing like yesterday.  Of course we do need to find him a good OC.

 

I want a Gregg Williams type, but not someone who's 60. I do like his no-nonsense make up though. We need someone like that paired with a young innovative OC. 

[WelshSkinsFan]

The Bengals situation could play into Jay's contract also.  My understanding is that any salary Jay earns from another job would be offset against what Washington owes him.  If Mike Brown is ready to move Marvin into a Front Office/Team Ambassador type of role with the idea that he can bring in Jay and reunite him with Andy Dalton as QB and presumably move Hue Jackson to OC then Dan won't have to worry about being on the hook for Jay's salary.

[Burgundy Yoda]

We need to let Gruden ride out the rest of the year. He deserves that for everything hes done, yes he doesnt have the resume we were looking for but it's hard to believe any coach can succeed under this regime. They're so dysfunctional on so many levels. 

 

If Snyder and Allen were smart, they would do this, it's a bad look canning your coach 3 games before the season is over.

5 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

 

I want a Gregg Williams type, but not someone who's 60. I do like his no-nonsense make up though. We need someone like that paired with a young innovative OC. 

 

I agree with this, a Saban type, Harbaugh type, even Tomlin type personality up top, surrounded by good coordinators. If there is one thing that you can say about these guys, its that they NEVER have a soft team on the field.

[clskinsfan]

51 minutes ago, Burgundy Yoda said:

We need to let Gruden ride out the rest of the year. He deserves that for everything hes done, yes he doesnt have the resume we were looking for but it's hard to believe any coach can succeed under this regime. They're so dysfunctional on so many levels. 

 

If Snyder and Allen were smart, they would do this, it's a bad look canning your coach 3 games before the season is over.

 

I agree with this, a Saban type, Harbaugh type, even Tomlin type personality up top, surrounded by good coordinators. If there is one thing that you can say about these guys, its that they NEVER have a soft team on the field.

 

I guess it's a black Monday date for Gruden then. That shouldnt stop Dan from firing Allen RIGHT NOW though

[Burgundy Yoda]

Just now, clskinsfan said:

 

I guess it's a black Monday date for Gruden then. That shouldnt stop Dan from firing Allen RIGHT NOW though

Oh I want Allen gone immediately. Hes a POS

[Mr_ Skinshead]

1 hour ago, WelshSkinsFan said:

The Bengals situation could play into Jay's contract also.  My understanding is that any salary Jay earns from another job would be offset against what Washington owes him.  If Mike Brown is ready to move Marvin into a Front Office/Team Ambassador type of role with the idea that he can bring in Jay and reunite him with Andy Dalton as QB and presumably move Hue Jackson to OC then Dan won't have to worry about being on the hook for Jay's salary.

Dan doesn't give a fat rat's ass about Gruden's salary.

[clskinsfan]

1 hour ago, veteranskinsfan said:

Do not want Tomlin.  He has been living off some good players for a long time.  He is so over-rated as a Head Coach.  I wonder what Ben really thinks of him too.

I agree with you 100%. I think the guy is motivator of men. But his game day decisions have been horrible. And I am not the only one to think so:

 

"The Mike Tomlin experience was in full effect. A game that began with the Steelers as 10.5-point favorites turned into a last-minute loss, one questionable decision at a time, to make it three ‘Ls’ in a row, leaving their playoff fate now hanging in the balance."

 

https://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2018/12/10/18133844/steelers-ben-roethlisberger-injury-return-raiders-loss-mike-tomlin

[Warhead36]

Tomlin is bad. Hard pass on him and any retread except maybe Jim Harbaugh but he's not a long term option, he'd burn out in 3-4 years.

[justice98]

Loverro asked a question on the disconnect between practice and the game and Gruden went off lamenting the injuries.  Like that excuses or explains the thorough thrashing at home by a 3 win team.  Get this guy out of here!

[justice98]

I kinda think it's crazy people are so down on Tomlin.  The only thing I dont like about Tomlin is his players talk too much in the media.  But they play for him.  

[TMK9973]

I had a great idea this morning.  Hear me out.  

I keep reading and hearing about how great of a leader Alex Smith is.  That, while he might be a good to great QB, as a leader and motivator he is top of the line.  Quotes i hear is how he makes everyone better, that men want to give everything they have for him.  That he has a great football mind and very smart.  That is a true leader.  

Meanwhile- the sad reality is - he may never play football again AND we are still on the hook for his salary for multiple more years.  

Meanwhile - Gruden is dead man walking.

 

Your next Head coach of the Washington Redskins - Alex Smith.  

 

 

[Rex Tomb]

4 minutes ago, TMK9973 said:

I had a great idea this morning.  Hear me out.  

I keep reading and hearing about how great of a leader Alex Smith is.  That, while he might be a good to great QB, as a leader and motivator he is top of the line.  Quotes i hear is how he makes everyone better, that men want to give everything they have for him.  That he has a great football mind and very smart.  That is a true leader.  

Meanwhile- the sad reality is - he may never play football again AND we are still on the hook for his salary for multiple more years.  

Meanwhile - Gruden is dead man walking.

  

Your next Head coach of the Washington Redskins - Alex Smith.  

  

 

I would like to see Alex Smith become an offensive coordinator first.  I think he probably has a lot to offer in that department, but I don't quite think he's ready to step into the role of HC yet.  Needs some seasoning in the coaching aspect first.

[justice98]

4 minutes ago, Rex Tomb said:

I would like to see Alex Smith become an offensive coordinator first.  I think he probably has a lot to offer in that department, but I don't quite think he's ready to step into the role of HC yet.  Needs some seasoning in the coaching aspect first.

 

QB coach usually seems like the first step for a QB stepping into coaching.

 

Having said that, you basically never see a big name QB get into coaching.  They make too much money for it to be worthwhile.  Guys with big guarantees arent going into coaching.  If they wanna get their football fix, they go into TV.

[OVCChairman]

7 minutes ago, justice98 said:

 

QB coach usually seems like the first step for a QB stepping into coaching.

 

Having said that, you basically never see a big name QB get into coaching.  They make too much money for it to be worthwhile.  Guys with big guarantees arent going into coaching.  If they wanna get their football fix, they go into TV.

 

exactly what I was thinking.  

[Skinsinparadise]

Without delving into QB debate, Defilippo's star has been dimmed for weeks, been reading stuff from pundit types, ex-Viking players, fans that his play calling is unimaginative among other things.  They even talked on the broadcast last night about Zimmer being disenchanted with him.

 

My point is if they are looking for a new coach -- beware of the narrative of the hot hand who is coming from a winning organization where the vibe is just the osmosis of coming from that team means the dude is a winner or a key part of their success.  See Norv Turner and plenty other examples.  

 

If they do go for another coach, my take is a personality-leader type, sort of a Parcells-Coughlin-Saban type.  Or a play caller but who is hot with today's spread offensive trends like a Lincoln Riley.   See what Nagy is doing in Chicago, etc.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[justice98]

10 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Without delving into QB debate, Defilippo's star has been dimmed for weeks, been reading stuff from pundit types, ex-Viking players, fans that his play calling is unimaginative among other things.  They even talked on the broadcast last night about Zimmer being disenchanted with him.

 

My point is if they are looking for a new coach -- beware of the narrative of the hot hand who is coming from a winning organization where the vibe is just the osmosis of coming from that team means the dude is a winner or a key part of their success.  See Norv Turner and plenty other examples.  

 

If they do go for another coach, my take is a personality-leader type, sort of a Parcells-Coughlin-Saban type.  Or a play caller but who is hot with today's spread offensive trends like a Lincoln Riley.   See what Nagy is doing in Chicago, etc.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I never got the DeFillipo thing.  Basically coaching Carson Wentz is what got him in the mix. I didnt get the sense that he built anything anywhere else.  

 

I agree with the personality leader type.  They need somebody who the guys will respect and follow and fight for.  You have to go all the way back to Gibbs 2.0 for that.  

[Voice_of_Reason]

Sometimes it’s hard to tell whether it’s the master or the apprentice who should get credit for developing a player/scheme.

 

Its one of the reasons I’m always skeptical about somebody on the NE staff, because history has shown Bellichick is the true master.

 

Conversly you can tell that it was McVay who really had a big hand in developing Cousins, and now Goff.

 

Going way back, the Eagles hires Reid off of Holmgren’s staff.  Reid was, I believe, the QB coach. The OC also got a HC job, and flamed our because most of the success could be attributed to Reid and Holmgren.

 

DeFillippo might have been a beneficiary instead of a driver as well...

 

 

Sometimes it’s easy to tell.  Sometimes not.

[WelshSkinsFan]

DeFillipo is pretty much done after last night.  I am fairly sure that barring a miracle the Vikings are going to miss the playoffs and if that happens the first thing Zimmer is going to do is fire his OC and find someone who actually shares his philosophy.  Flip may be scratching around for another coordinator job next year let alone a HC job.

 

If we get a new HC I still would rather we hire a hard ass who will fix the culture and instill some discipline and that usually tends to be the Defensive guys although I am open to be persuaded of the merits of Toub.  The HC can find a hotshot OC to take care of that side of the ball and honestly I don't want the guy running the offense worrying about the big picture on game day, I just want him focused on stepping on the oppositions throat when we have the ball.

[BurgundyBooger]

18 hours ago, WelshSkinsFan said:

Right now I want Gregg Williams.  Cleveland are tying themselves in knots trying to come up with a reason not to hire him.  He has ties to the organization, is Gibbs approved and would personally beat the snot of every one of those bums on Defense after a showing like yesterday.  Of course we do need to find him a good OC.

 

Not sure about that, to be honest. I think Gregg would have been HC in 2008 had Gibbs fully endorsed him before departing, which could explain the awkward and prolonged HC search in that offseason which ultimately led to the unexpected hire of Zorn. My hunch is that the 'Skins were set to promote Gregg but Gibbs wouldn't put his full support behind the decision.

[RichmondRedskin88]

18 hours ago, Burgundy Yoda said:

We need to let Gruden ride out the rest of the year. He deserves that for everything hes done, yes he doesnt have the resume we were looking for but it's hard to believe any coach can succeed under this regime. They're so dysfunctional on so many levels. 

 

If Snyder and Allen were smart, they would do this, it's a bad look canning your coach 3 games before the season is over.

 

I agree with this, a Saban type, Harbaugh type, even Tomlin type personality up top, surrounded by good coordinators. If there is one thing that you can say about these guys, its that they NEVER have a soft team on the field.

 

No soft teams? Harbaugh’s Michigan got manhandled twice this year. The later was the worst loss in school history to a rival.