Redskins receiving corp is beginning to shape up

[KDawg]

38 minutes ago, Burgold said:

I remember going back and forth with @KDawg about Steve Simms. At the end of 2019, it looked like I was going to be right. At the end of 2020, it looks like @KDawg was more on target.

 

He flashed so brightly in 2019 and closed really strongly, but this year because of injuries, opportunities, or whatever he didn't take that next step up. If anything, he regressed. I don't know if he can fix his hands/concentration, but at this point his ratio of drops to "WOW" plays is in the negative. Hopefully, he can fix the problem, but he's made his life harder.

 

I do wonder if the fact that he had to play with four different QBs in 2020 played a part in his woes, but don't really think so.

He doesn’t have reliable hands. He didn’t at the end of 2019, either. He is electric and can make plays but he doesn’t have the hands you need in a guy in the big moments. It’s been how I’ve viewed him for years. And how he is.

[Malapropismic Depository]

It has been substantiated, that the fastest player in the NFL is Scotty Miller...and not Tyreek Hill.

Maybe we can turn Apke and his speed into a Scotty Miller, if his offensive moves are better than his defensive moves.

And he could be the Reverse Dunbar ; converting from DB to WR.

But believe it or not, the fastest recorded time during a 2020 play was by Raheem Mostert at 23.09 mph

Edited January 29, 2021 by Malapropismic Depository

[skinny21]

6 hours ago, KDawg said:

He doesn’t have reliable hands. He didn’t at the end of 2019, either. He is electric and can make plays but he doesn’t have the hands you need in a guy in the big moments. It’s been how I’ve viewed him for years. And how he is.

Yeah, I had hopes he could be a guy similar to Crowder, but this past year was brutal for him.  

[Malapropismic Depository]

Eh maybe Sims is just having sophomore slump.

Look at this way ; overall, he has been more productive than one of the receivers we drafted in the same year as him, and ahead of him.

I don't recall in his rookie year that people complained about him dropping balls. So I don't think he forgot how to catch He'll remember how to catch in 2021

Edited January 29, 2021 by Malapropismic Depository

[KDawg]

1 hour ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

Eh maybe Sims is just having sophomore slump.

Look at this way ; overall, he has been more productive than one of the receivers we drafted in the same year as him, and ahead of him.

I don't recall in his rookie year that people complained about him dropping balls. So I don't think he forgot how to catch He'll remember how to catch in 2021

He dropped balls his rookie year.

[Koolblue13]

I can't wait to not see this thread title again.

[Est.1974]

S. Sims just isn’t reliable. Don’t even think he’s that dynamic/electric to be honest. 
 

Decent, but easily upgradable.

[OVCChairman]

1 hour ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

S. Sims just isn’t reliable. Don’t even think he’s that dynamic/electric to be honest. 
 

Decent, but easily upgradable.

 

 

I said such high hopes for him but he just didn't get it done.  He had some explosive moments last year but this year it's like he forgot what to do, or was just overlooked by the coaching staff. I would have liked to see more jet sweeps and stuff, but if the guy is costing you games because he's muffing punts and dropping passes, it's hard to WANT to get the ball in his hands more.  

[Burgold]

2 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

I can't wait to not see this thread title again.

I’m just glad I said “beginning to shape up” versus “are ready to dominate” or something more rah rah. 

[Silvernon]

You have to think that Steve Sims is in danger of getting the axe.

 

Got an extended look with too many negative plays at key moments. I heard a lot of talk about route-running improvement, but it was sloppy. Seems as if he and Wright are on the outside looking in based on this past year. 

 

#1 McLaurin

#2 FA

#3 Gandy-Golden

#4 Harmon/C. Sims

#5 Draft pick

[Est.1974]

12 minutes ago, Silvernon said:

You have to think that Steve Sims is in danger of getting the axe.

 

Got an extended look with too many negative plays at key moments. I heard a lot of talk about route-running improvement, but it was sloppy. Seems as if he and Wright are on the outside looking in based on this past year. 

 

#1 McLaurin

#2 FA

#3 Gandy-Golden

#4 Harmon/C. Sims

#5 Draft pick

I think pretty much all of our receivers aside from Mclaurin are vastly over rated.

 

I would say:

 

#1 and #2 is Mclaurin plus a FA, in either order.

 

#3 and below, complete open competition including another offseason addition we have via free agency or the draft.

[method man]

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2021/01/28/report-raiders-receiver-nelson-agholor-told-teammates-they-sucked-after-loss-to-dolphins/amp/
 

like this from Agholor. Little Swearingerish but still

[skinny21]

52 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

I think pretty much all of our receivers aside from Mclaurin are vastly over rated.

 

I would say:

 

#1 and #2 is Mclaurin plus a FA, in either order.

 

#3 and below, complete open competition including another offseason addition we have via free agency or the draft.

At minimum, I think we need a pretty good slot receiver.  Harmon, Cam Sims, AGG and Wright competing to play opposite McLaurin is far from ideal, but at least it’s a deep competition of younger guys.  I also think having McKissick (and Gibson) out of the backfield and Thomas running routes softens that situation a fair bit.  We can always motion Thomas or a back out wide with our new receiver playing in the slot (essentially allowing us to play a slot receiver even when we only have 2 receivers on the field).  Or one of the above guys can play a big slot role - giving them an edge to getting off the LOS.

All of that said, would love to add a high level starter opposite McLaurin that can provide insurance in case of injury (to Terry), along with a slot player (2 may be ideal).

[KDawg]

48 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

At minimum, I think we need a pretty good slot receiver.  Harmon, Cam Sims, AGG and Wright competing to play opposite McLaurin is far from ideal, but at least it’s a deep competition of younger guys.  I also think having McKissick (and Gibson) out of the backfield and Thomas running routes softens that situation a fair bit.  We can always motion Thomas or a back out wide with our new receiver playing in the slot (essentially allowing us to play a slot receiver even when we only have 2 receivers on the field).  Or one of the above guys can play a big slot role - giving them an edge to getting off the LOS.

All of that said, would love to add a high level starter opposite McLaurin that can provide insurance in case of injury (to Terry), along with a slot player (2 may be ideal).

 

I think an every down back alleviates and disguises the weakness even more.

 

Allowing Gibson and McKissick to be multi faceted in the slot and via jet motions getting some totes and allowing them to run some routes maximizes their value and still leaves us with a running threat in the backfield. I am big time on the Najee train but I'm not even insinuating it has to be him. We just need a dude that can carry the rock.

 

That hides a significant weakness. In that case we'd only really need one receiver, not two, and if Harmon comes back strong we are in excellent shape. 

 

Pass catcher wise that leaves us with:

 

McLaurin

Harmon

McKissick

Gibson

Thomas

Rookie/FA

Cam Sims

 

That's a decent group.

 

If Gibson is the primary back then 1) You have to wonder what we'd do if there is an injury. In this case getting an Etienne/Felton/Borghi type would also work because it allows you to continue using the backs in the receiving game even with injuries and 2) You are going to get him a lot of touches carrying the ball and you don't want to put too much tread on those tires.

 

You can circumvent Gibson touches a bit by getting Samuel, who had 41 carries as a receiver this year. He could have 50-65 carries from that role for us and take some wear and tear off Gibson that way, too.

 

Ideally I'd get a bellcow AND Samuel and let Gibson cook in whatever kitchen allows him to hit homeruns to the tune of 15-20 touches a game. 

Edited January 29, 2021 by KDawg

[actorguy1]

Posted this in the Free Agency thread as well

 

https://markbullock.substack.com/p/free-agent-profile-wr-curtis-samuel?r=fd8sn&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web&utm_source=copy

 

Free Agent Profile: WR Curtis Samuel

The team drafted Antonio Gibson, a receiver in college that Turner is developing into a running back, in the third round last season. Washington also signed J.D. McKissic, another positionless player that played both running back and wide receiver in college, as a free agent last offseason. Steven Sims Jr. is another player in that mold, though he’s more suited to being a slot receiver with the occasional hand-off on jet sweeps and such. While Samuel could be seen as an upgrade over some or perhaps all of those three, he would prove significantly more costly for a role that Washington already has three players for.

[skinny21]

1 minute ago, KDawg said:

 

I think an every down back alleviates and disguises the weakness even more.

 

Allowing Gibson and McKissick to be multi faceted in the slot and via jet motions getting some totes and allowing them to run some routes maximizes their value and still leaves us with a running threat in the backfield. I am big time on the Najee train but I'm not even insinuating it has to be him. We just need a dude that can carry the rock.

 

That hides a significant weakness. In that case we'd only really need one receiver, not two, and if Harmon comes back strong we are in excellent shape. 

 

Pass catcher wise that leaves us with:

 

McLaurin

Harmon

McKissick

Gibson

Thomas

Rookie/FA

Cam Sims

 

That's a decent group.

 

If Gibson is the primary back then 1) You have to wonder what we'd do if there is an injury. In this case getting an Etienne/Felton/Borghi type would also work because it allows you to continue using the backs in the receiving game even with injuries and 2) You are going to get him a lot of touches carrying the ball and you don't want to put too much tread on those tires.

I’m generally leery of using early picks on backs, but I’m right there with you that a good one both opens up more options for us, and takes away the concern of Gibson taking on a heavy load.  Saw a mention of him wanting to slim down a bit for next season, which I think is great for his ability to be used more as a weapon/gadget, and puts more onus on the team to land a bell cow type.  I’m very curious to see if Turner focuses on Gibson’s receiving ability (splitting him wide, as opposed to ‘just’ as a receiving back).  Would take even more pressure off our wr group.  I think it’s going to take a lot of work though as 1) he would still be working be working on his running back craft (pass pro in particular) and 2) he just hasn’t had much experience as a receiver. 

[kingdaddy]

22 hours ago, KDawg said:

He doesn’t have reliable hands. He didn’t at the end of 2019, either. He is electric and can make plays but he doesn’t have the hands you need in a guy in the big moments. It’s been how I’ve viewed him for years. And how he is.

I wish I could disagree but I can't...had high expectations for him as a WR an PR and he had a poor season with both. We're gonna need a PR next season....Simms Jr. did have the nice TD catch in the playoff game so maybe he builds on that. You know, Nelson Agholar was awful in Philly for a stretch, dropping everything that came his way. He probly even dropped his paycheck. Then he went to Oakland and had a solid season. Maybe Simms figures it out?

[PartyPosse]

14 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

I wish I could disagree but I can't...had high expectations for him as a WR an PR and he had a poor season with both. We're gonna need a PR next season....Simms Jr. did have the nice TD catch in the playoff game so maybe he builds on that. You know, Nelson Agholar was awful in Philly for a stretch, dropping everything that came his way. He probly even dropped his paycheck. Then he went to Oakland and had a solid season. Maybe Simms figures it out?

Sims ( Both of them) were undrafted and never expected to amount to much. Nelson is a former first round pick. I know draft position doesn't mean squat after they play but there's a reason one of the guys went in the top 25 and the others didn't go in the first 260 or so.

[carex]

5 hours ago, KDawg said:

 

I think an every down back alleviates and disguises the weakness even more.

 

Allowing Gibson and McKissick to be multi faceted in the slot and via jet motions getting some totes and allowing them to run some routes maximizes their value and still leaves us with a running threat in the backfield. I am big time on the Najee train but I'm not even insinuating it has to be him. We just need a dude that can carry the rock.

 

That hides a significant weakness. In that case we'd only really need one receiver, not two, and if Harmon comes back strong we are in excellent shape. 

 

Pass catcher wise that leaves us with:

 

McLaurin

Harmon

McKissick

Gibson

Thomas

Rookie/FA

Cam Sims

 

That's a decent group.

 

If Gibson is the primary back then 1) You have to wonder what we'd do if there is an injury. In this case getting an Etienne/Felton/Borghi type would also work because it allows you to continue using the backs in the receiving game even with injuries and 2) You are going to get him a lot of touches carrying the ball and you don't want to put too much tread on those tires.

 

You can circumvent Gibson touches a bit by getting Samuel, who had 41 carries as a receiver this year. He could have 50-65 carries from that role for us and take some wear and tear off Gibson that way, too.

 

Ideally I'd get a bellcow AND Samuel and let Gibson cook in whatever kitchen allows him to hit homeruns to the tune of 15-20 touches a game. 

 

everything I've heard says we want Gibson to be our Christian Macaffrey.  And he's treated as an every down back, isn't he?

[HigSkin]

NFL rumors have us targeting Curtis Samuel when FA begins.  They also have SF targeting Darby.  

 

What is it with SF always in our business?

[mhd24]

24 minutes ago, HigSkin said:

NFL rumors have us targeting Curtis Samuel when FA begins.  They also have SF targeting Darby.  

 

What is it with SF always in our business?

 

 

SF first needs to resign Trent.  He's not taking any discounts that for sure.

[KDawg]

5 hours ago, carex said:

 

everything I've heard says we want Gibson to be our Christian Macaffrey.  And he's treated as an every down back, isn't he?

He is.

 

I think Gibson can do it just fine if he stays healthy. And I think he’d be good. But I wouldn’t use him that way.

[Malapropismic Depository]

Anyone up for the idea of a 2021 thread about receivers ?

[CobraCommander]

50 minutes ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

Anyone up for the idea of a 2021 thread about receivers ?

Yes. This thread is a curse.

[Koolblue13]

6 hours ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

Anyone up for the idea of a 2021 thread about receivers ?

Please help this one die.