2018 Free Agency Database - (Signed: WILLIAMS - McPhee - Scandrick - P-Rich) - (Lauvao, Bergstrom, Nsehke, Taylor, Z. Brown and Quick re-signed)

[Est.1974]

Bruce is clearly waiting to scour the cuts market. I think if the Broncos released CJ Anderson in a cap related move, they ain't paying him 4.5mil, I reckon we'd bring him in for talks.

 

 

[wilco_holland]

4 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN '74 said:

Bruce is clearly waiting to scour the cuts market. I think if the Broncos released CJ Anderson in a cap related move, they ain't paying him 4.5mil, I reckon we'd bring him in for talks.

 

 

 

In general I like that because you can first give rookies a shot. Mini camp, traings camp and first pre season games tell you what you have. If some might struggle then you can always try to pick-up a veteran that gets cut. 

[Unbias]

1 hour ago, clskinsfan said:

 

You have to also take into  account the people that have signed with other teams. That is part of the game. You simply cant pay everyone to stay. It looks A LOT different when you realize the following players are still playing in the NFL Add these in and we dont suck at drafting AT ALL. IMO we have been damn good at it. Especially when the average NFL career is 3.3 years!

 

2016: Cravens, Sudfeld and Fuller

2015: Jones, Kouandijio

2014: Murphy, Long, Breeland and Grant

2013: Amerson, Rambo?

2012: LeRibuis, Cousins, Morris, Compton

2011: Helu, Paul

2010: Riley?

 

Well, okay. Then the only way to evaluate the team is to compare their #of draft picks (or %) that are still in the league compared to all the other teams. 

 

I'm not doing that work, but if you are using that logic to defend the drafting then you should also put it in a meaningful context. 

 

I'd add logically teams that have many NFL players on other teams probably have gone through a few regime changes where the previous players no longer fit the new schemes. It would also suggest that certain teams are better at drafting 'journeymen' than franchise guys. Either way, understanding what other teams have done is a key to making any conclusions. 

[dcdiscokid]

11 minutes ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

At first I thought we were building through the draft, but now it seems like we're sending away more of our draft picks than we're gaining.

This offseason alone, we lost at least 7 of our draft picks through trade or FA.

But their positions are being filled with other draft picks, once a good player reaches FA they are no longer cheap so you want to be in the position to plug a cheap just as good player in. That's building through the draft.

[Est.1974]

As well as the cuts market, I could still see Logan as a fallback option at DT down the line. Unless there is some kind of medical issue going on, seems to me like his market value is tanking. I understand he isn't at the level of Hankins, but we aren't paying 9/10 mil per year deals and as time lapses I'd wager Logan is heading for half that kind of money at best.

 

Its getting to the point of shutting down FA to focus on the draft, then Hoover around the gaps thereafter. Must admit though I'd like one more FA move pre draft.

[Malapropismic Depository]

8 minutes ago, dcdiscokid said:

But their positions are being filled with other draft picks, once a good player reaches FA they are no longer cheap so you want to be in the position to plug a cheap just as good player in. That's building through the draft.

 

So, is the idea to attain a team, and win with, a majority of players still on their rookie contract ?

[MisterPinstripe]

7 minutes ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

 

So, is the idea to attain a team, and win with, a majority of players still on their rookie contract ?

Thats basically what you have to do with the salary cap. You pay the really good players and keep them around with large contracts and you replace the average or just good players with guys you drafted and keep cycling through that way.

[Unbias]

3 minutes ago, wilco_holland said:

 

In general I like that because you can first give rookies a shot. Mini camp, traings camp and first pre season games tell you what you have. If some might struggle then you can always try to pick-up a veteran that gets cut. 

 

I think that's kind of backwards. IMHO teams shouldn't count on production from their rookies. They should fill the roster with vets then with each rookie have a development plan. If a particular rookie makes it into a starting role that's great, but it should never be the plan. 

 

My thoughts on this are fairly simple. Think of a typical draft eligible players schedule. It probably looks something like this: 

 

Summer of 2017 - Train for season, but also relax

Fall of 2017 - School and season starts. Putting in 50+ hour weeks and it's physically demanding. 

Dec to Jan - Bowl season (lead up and the games)

January 2018 - Shrine Game/Senior bowl/Combine Training

February to March 2018 - Training for and participation in the Combine

March to April 2018 - Predraft visits/interviews and finally the draft

May 2018 - OTAs and the rookie NFLPA Rookie Symposium (along with them still being in school)

June 2018 - More OTAs and the players have a slight window (aside from potentially working on exams)

July 2018 - Training Camps start - full team

August 2018 - Preseason games begin

September to December 2018 - Regular season

February to June 2019 - This is the first time a rookie really has anytime to catch their breath after being on a full sprint for over a year.  

 

I'm in awe every time a rookie has a breakout season. They are going through a gauntlet of change in a short period of time while the playing field has drastically changed in terms of what is demanded physically and mentally. When people talk about players hitting the 'rookie wall' it has more to do with the crazy schedule that led up to the NFL season, not the season itself. 

[Unbias]

8 minutes ago, MisterPinstripe said:

Thats basically what you have to do with the salary cap. You pay the really good players and keep them around with large contracts and you replace the average or just good players with guys you drafted and keep cycling through that way.

 

I think the world has somewhat changed a bit. Free agency is becoming extremely important. Teams have to hit in the draft AND free agency to be able to win now. Eagles are the most recent example, but the Patriots have always been active in free agency as well. Here's what they added in the 2017 season: 

 

Signed RFA RB Mike Gillislee from the Buffalo Bills.

Re-signed unrestricted free agent DL Alan Branch and restricted free agent OL Cameron Fleming.

Re-signed LB Dont'a Hightower.

Signed RB Rex Burkhead as an unrestricted free agent from the Cincinnati Bengals.

Acquired WR Brandin Cooks in a trade with the New Orleans Saints, and DL Kony Ealy in a trade with the Carolina Panthers.

Signed CB Stephon Gilmore as an unrestricted free agent (Buffalo Bills).

Acquired TE Dwayne Allen in a trade with the Indianapolis Colts in exchange for an undisclosed draft selection. 

 

Many of those would be considered 'McPhee' type transactions, but they retained two good defenders, signed a high priced FA (Gilmore) and brought in Cooks via trade. 

 

Before winning free agency was like getting the kiss of death because it would mess with chemistry while hurting your future cap situation. In today's NFL where management rarely has that long of a leash, contracts can be gotten out of easily and the cap keeps going up you can't be passive in March. Even your traditional 'build through the draft' teams like the Packers and Steelers have had to adjust their models. Both have done more cutting and signing of FAs than I can traditionally remember. 

[wilco_holland]

24 minutes ago, Unbias said:

 

I think that's kind of backwards. IMHO teams shouldn't count on production from their rookies. They should fill the roster with vets then with each rookie have a development plan. If a particular rookie makes it into a starting role that's great, but it should never be the plan. 

 

I think that we are not looking at starters. Guys you bring in now will be depth. If you look it's raining one year FA deals. Just like we did with McPhee. 

 

So my point is that you can see what you have after the draft. Are there players that can fill a depth spot. If not, which team might cut a veteran that could fill that spot. 

 

I think you need to have the starting spots locked up before the draft. Then add young guys and see how they do. If you stack roster with bunch of 1 year deal vets then it will cost young players snaps...and gives you less time to see if they are good enough. That one year deal vet is not your long term plan, that are the cheap young guys. If they fail to provide depth you can always bring in a vet. Isn't that what happens with Mason Foster? We had lot of young ILB's but they kinda where meh, Bears cut Foster early in season or late in pre-season (don't remember it right) and we picked him up. 

------

I think Eagles and Patriots might be a little bad example in this case. Eagles did the same as what the Seahawks did and what the Rams are doing now. They have a good cheap rookie QB and that gives them room to spend a lot of cap on vets. We are not in that position. 

 

Patriots are masters in finding players that teams value low, but they value high. I don't remember any other team that is able to find so many cut or burried on depth chart players and turn them into stars. Thats a rare talent. 

 

I think there are many ways teams can achieve success in the NFL. That's also what the league shows us. You just need a great QB and use your resources smart, both in FA and in the draft. Some might lean more on FA, some more on the draft. Both can work and win. 

[bobandweave]

49 minutes ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

At first I thought we were building through the draft, but now it seems like we're sending away more of our draft picks than we're gaining.

This offseason alone, we lost at least 7 of our draft picks through trade or FA.

 

Yup and that should give everyone pause as to the belief that the 2015 draft class will be re-signed.

 

Don't believe what you hear, believe what you see. Believe what you know. Don't believe what they tell you.

 

They tell you that draft picks matter, they trade everyone away they draft. So which is it? That's Bruce Allen for you. 

52 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN '74 said:

Bruce is clearly waiting to scour the cuts market. I think if the Broncos released CJ Anderson in a cap related move, they ain't paying him 4.5mil, I reckon we'd bring him in for talks.

 

 

 

So why not Demarco Murray instead someone who was cut and is a better RB then CJ then? I've mentioned him here before because he is a good committee back these days. That's all they need with Chris Thompson here. They aren't drafting a RB and giving him 20+ carries a game, that's not what they need. Which is why using the first pick on a RB makes no sense to me. Sign Demarco for a year, he and CT would be a good combination and better then Murray and Derrick were last year. 

[HigSkin]

1 hour ago, UK SKINS FAN '74 said:

Bruce is clearly waiting to scour the cuts market. I think if the Broncos released CJ Anderson in a cap related move, they ain't paying him 4.5mil, I reckon we'd bring him in for talks.

 

 

 

We actually got Norman and DJax that way too.  Not sure it happens again but there is some opp to find starter guys in the middle to end of FA.  :-)

[bobandweave]

34 minutes ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

 

So, is the idea to attain a team, and win with, a majority of players still on their rookie contract ?

 

26 minutes ago, MisterPinstripe said:

Thats basically what you have to do with the salary cap. You pay the really good players and keep them around with large contracts and you replace the average or just good players with guys you drafted and keep cycling through that way.

 

The answer to this is this is what good teams are doing with the QB position these days. They get a rookie QB on his rookie deal, on built up teams, and that gives them a three-four year window to win it all or at least compete. Once that window passes the QB gets paid big bucks and the teams out of the hunt. Been this way at that position for the past 5 years and will continue the way these QB deals are going. So don't need a team full of rookie deals, need the QB on that rookie deal

[Mr.Will]

6 minutes ago, bobandweave said:

 

 

The answer to this is this is what good teams are doing with the QB position these days. They get a rookie QB on his rookie deal, on built up teams, and that gives them a three-four year window to win it all or at least compete. Once that window passes the QB gets paid big bucks and the teams out of the hunt. Been this way at that position for the past 5 years and will continue the way these QB deals are going. So don't need a team full of rookie deals, need the QB on that rookie deal

And your statement is just about spot on..a few other teams get lucky from time to time but for the rest of the competing pack it’s definitely been a reoccurring recipe 

[oraphus]

1 hour ago, Unbias said:

 

I think the world has somewhat changed a bit. Free agency is becoming extremely important. Teams have to hit in the draft AND free agency to be able to win now. Eagles are the most recent example, but the Patriots have always been active in free agency as well. Here's what they added in the 2017 season: 

 

Signed RFA RB Mike Gillislee from the Buffalo Bills.

Re-signed unrestricted free agent DL Alan Branch and restricted free agent OL Cameron Fleming.

Re-signed LB Dont'a Hightower.

Signed RB Rex Burkhead as an unrestricted free agent from the Cincinnati Bengals.

Acquired WR Brandin Cooks in a trade with the New Orleans Saints, and DL Kony Ealy in a trade with the Carolina Panthers.

Signed CB Stephon Gilmore as an unrestricted free agent (Buffalo Bills).

Acquired TE Dwayne Allen in a trade with the Indianapolis Colts in exchange for an undisclosed draft selection. 

 

The funny part is that if you grade their FA signing, i would call it subpar at best:

 

Signed RFA RB Mike Gillislee from the Buffalo Bills - bust

Re-signed unrestricted free agent DL Alan Branch and restricted free agent OL Cameron Fleming - below avg

Re-signed LB Dont'a Hightower. - i wont count resigning since they know this player well.

Signed RB Rex Burkhead as an unrestricted free agent from the Cincinnati Bengals - average

Acquired WR Brandin Cooks in a trade with the New Orleans Saints, and DL Kony Ealy in a trade with the Carolina Panthers - Cooks was a let down, DL was bad all year

Signed CB Stephon Gilmore as an unrestricted free agent (Buffalo Bills) -significantly underperformed

Acquired TE Dwayne Allen in a trade with the Indianapolis Colts in exchange for an undisclosed draft selection. - bust

 

Majority of the above acquisitions has little impact on them being in the superbowl.

[Darth Tater]

I don't really think there is an 'insert tab A into slot B' system to developing a team that is good for years.  There are some strategies that do have some examples.  For instance, finding that great QB and re-building around him every three to four years, of course we all know a few counter-examples. An innovative coaching staff perhaps helped by rules changes.  In this day and age, probably the best is to create a system that relies only on 2-3 guys who excel and works well as long as the other guys can consistently do their jobs. A system more dependent on finding multipliers and avoiding dividers than finding adders and avoiding subtracters.  Remember, in a team environment, a multiplier may, in fact, not be the best adder and may actually be a subtracter while the best adder may actually be a divider.

 

-- Another thought

What if Matt Mendenhall had been what most people thought he was in 1981 thru the off-season of 1983 instead of an alcoholic?  Would we have ever heard much about Mann or would he just turned into Tony McGee's replacement?  On the other hand, If Mann had replaced Manley, as per the original concept, maybe Manley becomes the replacement for McGee

 

[HTTRDynasty]

 

 

[UKskins]

1 hour ago, bobandweave said:

 

Yup and that should give everyone pause as to the belief that the 2015 draft class will be re-signed.

 

Don't believe what you hear, believe what you see. Believe what you know. Don't believe what they tell you.

 

They tell you that draft picks matter, they trade everyone away they draft. So which is it? That's Bruce Allen for you. 

 

So why not Demarco Murray instead someone who was cut and is a better RB then CJ then? I've mentioned him here before because he is a good committee back these days. That's all they need with Chris Thompson here. They aren't drafting a RB and giving him 20+ carries a game, that's not what they need. Which is why using the first pick on a RB makes no sense to me. Sign Demarco for a year, he and CT would be a good combination and better then Murray and Derrick were last year. 

 

Nobody is advocating using the first pick on a RB. We won't. There isn't one worth taking. We will almost certainly take one in the second because a washed up DeMarco Murray who has been on par with Matt freaking Jones for 2 of the last 3 seasons is DEFINITELY not the answer.

[clskinsfan]

Did Ya'll see this? What a weird dude Cravens is:

 

 

[clskinsfan]

58 minutes ago, UKskins said:

 

Nobody is advocating using the first pick on a RB. We won't. There isn't one worth taking. We will almost certainly take one in the second because a washed up DeMarco Murray who has been on par with Matt freaking Jones for 2 of the last 3 seasons is DEFINITELY not the answer.

 

Depends how the board falls. And if we can trade down a couple of spots. Guice is a first rounder. I thought Jones was until his interviews were apparently horrific. 

[RabidFan]

Thank Christ he is gone. What a millenial self involved toolbox!!

[Mr.Will]

15 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

Did Ya'll see this? What a weird dude Cravens is:

 

 

Hope Denver has a decent wi-fi signal..all he cared about is his social media profile more than football!!..if he played more than he posts then he’d be All Pro!!..he was such a waste of a roster spot-I rarely ever care bout a player personally,or what they do outside of football(that don’t take from the team)but this kid really pissed me off..as much as we turn players over,I’m super selective on who’s Jersey I’d buy and other than S.Taylor’s,I Almost invested in one for this lil jerk off!!..man I’m soooo glad I waited,I’d be twice as pissed if I had shelled out 250$ and then he pulled this crap!!..have fun in Denver where the thin air might do ya some good,ya Scrub!!!!

[RabidFan]

Id rather have Bacarri Rambo.  Lol

[Mr.Will]

12 minutes ago, RabidFan said:

Id rather have Bacarri Rambo.  Lol

I’d rather have our 2nd and 4th round picks back instead..neither had any thing going for em other than cool sounding names!!..other than that,they were a waste of skin!!!

[Peregrine]

5 hours ago, Califan007 said:

 

That last part in bold shouldn't be overlooked. There's a difference between drafted players no longer being on the team due to underperforming and no longer being on the team because other teams wanted to sign them when given the chance. If anyone wants to view how well the Skins have drafted, they should look at how many players became starters and are still starters in the league.

I dont agree with Califan on everything, but when I do, its about the difference between guys that leave the league 3 years after you draft them, and guys you actually get MORE draft picks for because they are good and other teams want them.  Its completely unfair to just say "X number of guys are left on the roster".