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The Bruce Allen/GM Thread

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48 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN '74 said:

 

Gruden did look uncomfortable. But I don't care, he's paid millions to have a pair of balls and deal with it. Gruden loved Foster pre draft, and even said Foster was his favourite combine interview. At that stage, most of the world knew Foster was a ****ing mentalist. Not that I can justify Fosters actions, the facts will come out soon enough.

 

But Gruden isn't a child. He's an NFL HC. Man management and dealing with the press isn't difficult in his role. He could have cut them off at the knees straight off.

 

But he didn't....and squirmed like hell for over ten minutes. Self inflicted. 

I read this in Bruce Allen’s voice...

 

Bruce Allen is probably paid more than Gruden to be a colossal failure.  I’m not sure how much the head coach makes has to do with anything.

 

When an FO makes a move like this, they need to answer for it. Not the head coach.  The head coach has probably one of the biggest games of both his and Bruce’s career coming up on Monday night.  God forbid Gruden not go up and stonewall the press and rile them up even more.

 

Of all the crap I’ve read here about this, I think this might be the only time I’ve seen anyone think it was the head coaches job to field these questions.

Edited by BatteredFanSyndrome
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4 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I read this in Bruce Allen’s voice...

 

Bruce Allen is probably paid more than Gruden to be a colossal failure.  I’m not sure how much the head coach makes has to do with anything.

 

When an FO makes a move like this, they need to answer for it. Not the head coach.  The head coach has probably one of the biggest games of both his and Bruce’s career coming up on Monday night.  God forbid Gruden not go up and stonewall the press and rile them up even more.

 

Of all the crap I’ve read here about this, I think this might be the only time I’ve seen anyone think it was the head coaches job to field these questions.

 

 

 

 

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23 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I read this in Bruce Allen’s voice...

 

Bruce Allen is probably paid more than Gruden to be a colossal failure.  I’m not sure how much the head coach makes has to do with anything.

 

When an FO makes a move like this, they need to answer for it. Not the head coach.  The head coach has probably one of the biggest games of both his and Bruce’s career coming up on Monday night.  God forbid Gruden not go up and stonewall the press and rile them up even more.

 

Of all the crap I’ve read here about this, I think this might be the only time I’ve seen anyone think it was the head coaches job to field these questions.

Not to mention Bruce has overseen the following QB debacles --

 

McNabb

 

RG3. Can't blame him for his injury, but he gets penalized for entitling him and telling prospective coaches they had to play him. Even if one disagrees with that, in the end, he whiffed on a big trade for a franchise QB. That's not debatable. 

 

Cousins. Should have been a gift to Bruce -- made missing on RG3 tolerable. Instead, Bruce insults him in more ways than one. 

 

Smith. I like Smith, but felt the smart move was to draft a QB and roll with Colt. You could then stack the team for 3-4 years while you had very little cap money allocated to the QB position. Instead, we have a QB with a career-threatening injury and a 50 million dollar cap hit (yet another thing to scare coaches away if a change is made). Also, it's clear Bruce made this move before asking his coach what he thought of it.

 

Two debacles like this would get you fired pretty much anywhere else. Bruce has four. And that's just at the QB position. 

Edited by Hooper
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The incompetence of this organization is truly staggering sometimes. The guy in charge refuses to face the media for the stupidity of his decisions. Instead he sends out a team legend to take the heat. Unbelievable in all honesty.

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2 hours ago, Riggo-toni said:

I like Boswell, but fans aren't turning away in droves because we have signed/claimed questionable characters; we are abandoning the team because they have sucked, and will continue to suck, for so long.

And they suck because our owner doesn't know how to set up a proper front office structure, a shortcoming infinitely magnified by his utter inability to recognize talent, compounded by his propensity to favor familiarity over competence.

To me, it's a two-fold problem. A successful team will have a good following regardless of who they sign. A team that is not successful, but neither does it push away it's fans with horrible PR will maintain a decent following as well. For that second part, consider Cleveland. I don't get to watch many of their games, but in each one I see, I NEVER see the stadium as empty as ours is. Cleveland is a lovable loser, the type that's really hard to hate. The Redskins have managed to be losers AND be hated for its personality.

 

What is their to like? I grew up watching Gibbs 2, Zorn, and then Shanahan. I'm having a really hard time figuring out why I love the Redskins. I haven't seen many years where the team has at least had more wins than losses. Now there's not one single person on the team that I am truly a fan of, and there are many people in the organization who I truly detest. Piling on more players that are easy to dislike? It'll take a lot to drive me away, but I can absolutely understand people dropping their fandom with another straw on the camel's back.

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9 hours ago, Hooper said:

Not to mention Bruce has overseen the following QB debacles --

 

McNabb

 

RG3. Can't blame him for his injury, but he gets penalized for entitling him and telling prospective coaches they had to play him. Even if one disagrees with that, in the end, he whiffed on a big trade for a franchise QB. That's not debatable. 

 

Cousins. Should have been a gift to Bruce -- made missing on RG3 tolerable. Instead, Bruce insults him in more ways than one. 

 

Smith. I like Smith, but felt the smart move was to draft a QB and roll with Colt. You could then stack the team for 3-4 years while you had very little cap money allocated to the QB position. Instead, we have a QB with a career-threatening injury and a 50 million dollar cap hit (yet another thing to scare coaches away if a change is made). Also, it's clear Bruce made this move before asking his coach what he thought of it.

 

Two debacles like this would get you fired pretty much anywhere else. Bruce has four. And that's just at the QB position. 

He should be fired for the Smith debacle alone.

 

Mccoy isn't a long term answer.  If he was starting QB material, he would've been a starter already.

 

The Skins are going into 2019 ****ed at the QB position.  Even if Alex Smith can eventually come back, it will probably be late 2019 at the earliest.  I seriously doubt he will be the same QB and it will not shock me, to see him not play again.  Colt will be the main guy in 2019 but we won't be winning many games.

 

Skins aren't going to be one of the attractive jobs.  Maybe we hire a Jim Zorn for 2019 and we suck and end up with a Top 3 pick in 2020. One done with Zorn 2 and a new coach and new QB for 2020.

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10 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

 

Of all the crap I’ve read here about this, I think this might be the only time I’ve seen anyone think it was the head coaches job to field these questions.

 

Oh please, save the melodramatics. Gruden is in a senior position of responsibility in his own right. Who gives a toss if he gets put under the heat. 

 

I don't disagree at all with he slating Bruce Allen is getting, but can we put the bubble wrap away and let Gruden show us what he's got.

 

My interpretation is simply that Gruden didn't handle that situation well. I think we all know Gruden isn't exactly great under pressure or in situations of flux. 

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15 hours ago, clskinsfan said:

The incompetence of this organization is truly staggering sometimes. The guy in charge refuses to face the media for the stupidity of his decisions. Instead he sends out a team legend to take the heat. Unbelievable in all honesty.

Incompetents have no balls, they hire incompetents, they are not accountable and always throw their own crew  legends under the bus. 🤢 :stop:

 

Albert-Einstein-Insanity.jpg?resize=320,

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13 hours ago, Hooper said:

Not to mention Bruce has overseen the following QB debacles --

 

McNabb

 

RG3. Can't blame him for his injury, but he gets penalized for entitling him and telling prospective coaches they had to play him. Even if one disagrees with that, in the end, he whiffed on a big trade for a franchise QB. That's not debatable. 

 

Cousins. Should have been a gift to Bruce -- made missing on RG3 tolerable. Instead, Bruce insults him in more ways than one. 

 

Smith. I like Smith, but felt the smart move was to draft a QB and roll with Colt. You could then stack the team for 3-4 years while you had very little cap money allocated to the QB position. Instead, we have a QB with a career-threatening injury and a 50 million dollar cap hit (yet another thing to scare coaches away if a change is made). Also, it's clear Bruce made this move before asking his coach what he thought of it.

 

Two debacles like this would get you fired pretty much anywhere else. Bruce has four. And that's just at the QB position. 

But all this would take smart planning and being able to evaluate the right talent for your team, something only a GM would know. Bruce Allen knows nothing about that, he's a waste of money and space.

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6 hours ago, UK SKINS FAN '74 said:

 

Oh please, save the melodramatics. Gruden is in a senior position of responsibility in his own right. Who gives a toss if he gets put under the heat. 

 

I don't disagree at all with he slating Bruce Allen is getting, but can we put the bubble wrap away and let Gruden show us what he's got.

 

My interpretation is simply that Gruden didn't handle that situation well. I think we all know Gruden isn't exactly great under pressure or in situations of flux. 

Nobody in the entire organization has handled the situation well but that’s really besides the point.  It’s just another glimpse into the ****show that is Ashburn.

 

I think it’s rather obvious why you think it’s up to Jay to talk about it and it’s emotional, not rational.  Shocker.

Edited by BatteredFanSyndrome
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53 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Nobody in the entire organization has handled the situation well

That is so true.

 

Which gives more and more the impression that they didn't expected anything that camed after. Some here thought it was a good idea and that the statement (that was not read a second time, proof being the mispelling in Doug Williams' name) before published would be enough and that it wouldn't go much further.

 

Then you have the HC that is being forced to answer those questions, because nobody did prior to it.

Then you have players that say they weren't asked about...

Then you got Doug Williams coming out with an even worse explanation.

Then you have Doug Williams having to apologizes for his previous explanation.

 

Sure, they had it all covered and buckled up before claiming Reuben Foster.

 

They've handled this so professionally, that when I read the news about Kareem Hunt, I thought we were about to sign him. Even NBC Sports put the Kareem Hunt history as Redskins related, because that's in the section.

 

That whole stupid mess should have never, ever happened. They should have handled it way better. They wanted to make a claim on Foster? OK, I can understand that, but the misjudgment and the lack of preparation behind it is inexcusable.Now I'm hoping that those minority owners are looking for ways to get rid of Snyder and forced him to sell. I could even spend a few euros here and there to get rid of him and Bruce Allen.

 

Thats--Enough-o03yrd.jpg

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Just read an Athletic article (paid subscription so I can't link it here) from Mike Lombardi who worked with Bruce with the Raiders.  In the article, he said Bruce was never included in ANY draft or personnel decision with the Raiders -- he was strictly a player contract guy.  Then the rest of the article basically suggests that Bruce is out of his depth and part of a culture that thinks they are smarter than the rest of the league in spite of the losing.  And they have no idea about how to build a team and foster a winning culture.  He said working with Bill Walsh, Walsh would say something along the lines that only 8 teams in the NFL in a given year give or take can avoid dysfunction-distraction so they have to outwork the 7 other teams who have mastered that art.

 

 

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Just read an Athletic article (paid subscription so I can't link it here) from Mike Lombardi who worked with Bruce with the Raiders.  In the article, he said Bruce was never included in ANY draft or personnel decision with the Raiders -- he was strictly a player contract guy.  Then the rest of the article basically suggests that Bruce is out of his depth and part of a culture that thinks they are smarter than the rest of the league in spite of the losing.  And they have no idea about how to build a team and foster a winning culture.  He said working with Bill Walsh, Walsh would say something along the lines that only 8 teams in the NFL in a given year give or take can avoid dysfunction-distraction so they have to outwork the 7 other teams who have mastered that art.

 

 

Lombardi is a total fraud in many ways -- check out his track record as a personnel guy -- but he has been consistent in his killing of Bruce.

 

He was a terrible hire. Basically Vinny 2.0. Snyder is just as involved as ever. It's been 20 years of misery and our owner has yet to hire or even really pursue a strong GM. He just wants people with no other real options that won't stand up to him. There's a reason nothing really ever changes, folks. 

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At this point let's bring in Tim Tebow and Colin Kapernick and let them battle for the 3rd QB spot.  Should help us win even more off the field coverage.

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9 hours ago, Hooper said:

Lombardi is a total fraud in many ways -- check out his track record as a personnel guy -- but he has been consistent in his killing of Bruce.

 

He was a terrible hire. Basically Vinny 2.0. Snyder is just as involved as ever. It's been 20 years of misery and our owner has yet to hire or even really pursue a strong GM. He just wants people with no other real options that won't stand up to him. There's a reason nothing really ever changes, folks. 

 

I may be getting my PTSD-blocked history wrong here, but after we lost to the 0-19 Lions, I think Snyder got drunk, called up Shanny, met with him, and hired him.  While I know Vinny had just gotten the boot, I had this notion that Shanahan wanted Allen there.  Then Shanahan and Allen would split decisions down the middle since Shanny was HC and VP of the Redskins.  Once Shanny burned his bridges (rightfully so), Bruce became *THE* guy.  Egotistical tendencies explain the rest.

 

5 hours ago, MediocreGymnast said:

At this point let's bring in Tim Tebow and Colin Kapernick and let them battle for the 3rd QB spot.  Should help us win even more off the field coverage.

 

(First, I know you're joking)

 

See, here's what my quandary is with them.  They knew, KNEW!, that Foster was going to be a really black mark for a team whose very name is controversial.  Why do that?  Maybe he signs with us officially pending his investigation/potential trial/history of injuries.  And then, after promising that he's changed multiple times to the press, he hits a woman, he gets arrested, and we're like "OOOOH!  THAT GUY!"  Stupid from every angle.

 

But sitting out there with our broken quarterback likely never coming back is the quarterback who took Smith's job.  Why?  Because he kneels.  Backlash from other people?  Sure.  But at least there would be a MASSIVE segment of the fanbase that would see that as a potential form of leadership.  Oh, and he didn't have any charges and was on no exempt list.  That, potentially, could be the response that leaves us with a much better quarterback, one that has been working out forever, and one that the country, or at least a huge swath of it, could see as some sort of social conscience by the team.

Ugh.  This stuff makes my head spin

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I honestly have no idea what it would take for Snyder to turn on Brucie.

He's already packaged enough bad deals to warrant expulsion from the team, and has been a major part of this team being a joke in the league.

 

So, what would it take?  Awhile back, I wanted to do a thread similar to the one I did on Jim Haslett, with a poll, thinking maybe after a few months there would be enough negative in it that somehow it would reach Snyder or the media in some way, but mods would have probably not liked the idea of 2 Bruce Allen threads on here. But I think everyone is in agreement, something has to be done.

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18 minutes ago, skins island connection said:

I honestly have no idea what it would take for Snyder to turn on Brucie.

He's already packaged enough bad deals to warrant expulsion from the team, and has been a major part of this team being a joke in the league.

 

So, what would it take?  Awhile back, I wanted to do a thread similar to the one I did on Jim Haslett, with a poll, thinking maybe after a few months there would be enough negative in it that somehow it would reach Snyder or the media in some way, but mods would have probably not liked the idea of 2 Bruce Allen threads on here. But I think everyone is in agreement, something has to be done.

 

Can a poll be added to this thread or too late?  Never done a poll here.  But that would be interesting,  I gather from this and other threads that Allen would get at least 5 votes but be interesting to see if he'd get anything beyond it.   Sometimes depends on how its phrased as for it being on topic for the higher ups if we can get it to their attention. 

 

Does having Bruce Allen as Team President make you have more or less faith in the direction if this franchise?

 

A. Much More Faith

B. More Faith

C. Less Faith

D. Much Less Faith

Edited by Skinsinparadise

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On 12/1/2018 at 2:53 AM, Rdskns2000 said:

He should be fired for the Smith debacle alone.

 

Mccoy isn't a long term answer.  If he was starting QB material, he would've been a starter already.

 

The Skins are going into 2019 ****ed at the QB position.  Even if Alex Smith can eventually come back, it will probably be late 2019 at the earliest.  I seriously doubt he will be the same QB and it will not shock me, to see him not play again.  Colt will be the main guy in 2019 but we won't be winning many games.

 

Skins aren't going to be one of the attractive jobs.  Maybe we hire a Jim Zorn for 2019 and we suck and end up with a Top 3 pick in 2020. One done with Zorn 2 and a new coach and new QB for 2020.

 

I can hear "but the Redskins won when Smith was at QB, the losing started once he got hurt" argument already peculating in some people's head already. They will continue to maintain trading for a broken down QB was the smart move. 

 

I hate this team so much. I have missed one game in 43 years, I may not watch tonight. This whole debacle with Bruce hiding under the bed as he trots out a coach who should be game planning and a guy under him who proceeded to make a stupid, insensitive, comment is kind of the last straw for me.    

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On 11/30/2018 at 6:01 PM, clskinsfan said:

The incompetence of this organization is truly staggering sometimes. The guy in charge refuses to face the media for the stupidity of his decisions. Instead he sends out a team legend to take the heat. Unbelievable in all honesty.

 

After watching the consistent failure of this organization for almost 20 years it's not "staggering" to me at all.  It's just what they are.  It's embarrassing for sure, but as long as the people at top are satisfied with the bottom line I don't see much changing.  Bruce is a gutless, no-spine-having politician of the highest order.  So him and Dan using a Redskins legend like Doug the way they are is no surprise.  Again, it's just what they are,....it's just what they do.  

Edited by Probos
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Ahhhh, love the 'lovefest' for Bruce.

I remember when he was hired and folks like Richard 'Doc' Walker going gaga over the Skins hiring someone that knows the Redskins tradition and who will bring back memories of yesteryears.  The problem is actually Daniel Snyder trying to do stuff that will get him loved... embrace the 'Heel' that you are. Don't be blackmailed in sticking with bad choices.  Bruce Allen is not George Allen. He will NEVER be. 

 

Daniel Snyder should stop trying to recreate a bygone era. 

 

You either run this as a business or you run it with sentiments (as a hobby). You can't do both.  Straddling both worlds is not working. 

 

They accuse you of not having patience with coaches then you stick with a coach who is not meant to be a head coach.  You allowed him to make decisions on who his coordinators are knowing fully well that he doesn't have the skillset to make such decisions. 

 

There's ZERO accountability because you are afraid to make decisions that will enforce the stereotype (perception) people have of you. Gruden is a horrible coach. Bruce is an even more horrible GM. Sticking by both of them just because you don't want to be called meddlesome is an even much more horrible decision. 

 

You are actually now old enough not to care what people think of you. If bad decisions are being made, it might as well come from you. 

 

As the Skins finish another mediocre season. You better clean house. Fire all the fireables. I will start with this Monday Night.  

If Gruden loses this game, he should not make the team bus. 

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On 11/30/2018 at 7:04 PM, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

If I had any faith in the leadership of Roger Goddell, I could see the NFL taking action. They are a total ****-show right now so unfortunately, something like this is nothing but a pipe dream.

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6 minutes ago, bird_1972 said:

 

If I had any faith in the leadership of Roger Goddell, I could see the NFL taking action. They are a total ****-show right now so unfortunately, something like this is nothing but a pipe dream.

 

 

It was presented by some of the guys on the radio... Brian Lafemina had no reason to make a career change, the NFL may already have decided to get involved.  

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7 minutes ago, OVCChairman said:

 

 

It was presented by some of the guys on the radio... Brian Lafemina had no reason to make a career change, the NFL may already have decided to get involved.  

 

Planting a guy to assist with marketing is a whole lot different than doing what MLB did with the Dodgers. 

 

I'm not even sure what the league's recourse is if they see a failing franchise and want to "rescue" it from a bad owner like Snyder. 

 

Furthermore, I'm not sure the NFL has something like this even on their radar screen. After all, they made the bone headed decision to let two teams relocate to LA in the same year. How is that working out for the Chargers?

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Bruce Allen should have been fired 4-5 year ago.  If he wasnt fired then, I struggle to see Snyder ever firing him.  Everything he seems to do just seems to be ignored by Snyder, who also has shown by it that he doesnt care about the performance of his franchise.  The only real way I can see it happening is if there is a big enough scandal, where Snyder needs a scapegoat, and then I can see him easily tossing Allen to the wolves.

 

Of course the problem then is we would still have Dan Snyder.  I think the only real hope is attendance and interest gets so bad, it becomes obvious to Snyder that ever year he owns the team its value is going to go down even more, so its in his best interest to sell it now before it gets worse.

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