NoCalMike Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 (edited) This is the game they play. Throw the crumbs, let the masses squabble over them, meanwhile the wealthy just got a more wealthy and percentage-wise, their revenue, benefits, and wealth just went up a hell of a lot more. Simple math says this tax bill doesn't work in the long run. I don't think most Dems ever said no one would see a tax cut in the middle class, it was more a philosophical question about what the trade off was for making that happen. Contrast that with the GOP who is banking on the masses not being able to see the forest through the trees and instead scream to the rooftops "I GOT $50 MORE ON MY CHECK!!!" That is how the scam works every time with trickle down economics. You already see Paul Ryan pressing immediately for entitlement reform. Why? Well for one, he is an Ayn Rand disciple, but also because continuing to give these massive cuts to the wealthiest Americans means the benefits and programs for everyone else need to be cut or go away completely in order to balance the books. Edited February 12, 2018 by NoCalMike 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 17 minutes ago, MartinC said: That rather depends what happens to inflation. A combination of large tax cuts and increased public spending in an already hot economy with a very tight labor market (unemployment now at 4%) is, to say the least, not a conventional approach! If inflation kicks in and prices start to rise those relatively small tax gains for lower and middle earners will soon get eaten up. And if there was no tax cut and inflation kicked in? But we didn't have that worry with the recovery ,right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinC Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 13 minutes ago, twa said: And if there was no tax cut and inflation kicked in? But we didn't have that worry with the recovery ,right? Without a tax cut AND big increases in public spending there would be far less chance that inflation would kick in. And no during the recovery we didn't have that worry because there was slack in the economy - higher unemployment and excess manufacturing capacity. Conventional macroeconomics encourages increased public spending and tax cuts in a recession - but not when you pretty much have full employment and not much slack in terms of increased domestic manufacturing capacity. In other (related) news the US trade deficit rose by 12% in 2017. MAGA and all that ... https://www.marke****ch.com/story/us-trade-deficit-in-trumps-first-year-soars-to-9-year-high-of-566-billion-2018-02-06 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 15 minutes ago, MartinC said: Without a tax cut AND big increases in public spending there would be far less chance that inflation would kick in. So you are saying we should have passed the House spending bill that the Dems in the senate wouldn't pass? I agree that would have been less risky and far lower impact on deficit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearrock Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2018/02/12/white-house-budget-proposes-increase-to-defense-spending-and-major-cuts-to-safety-net-programs-but-federal-deficit-would-remain/?hpid=hp_no-name_no-name%3Apage%2Fbreaking-news-bar&utm_term=.b30e199ff03b Quote [White House Budget] also calls for major spending reductions in Medicare, Medicaid, food stamps and other social programs, reductions that have long been targeted by conservatives. But even with these reductions, which combine for more than $3 trillion in cuts over 10 years, it would not bring the budget into balance because of tax revenue lost to the recent tax cut and higher spending on other programs. Hmm, so 1.5 trillion in tax cuts over 10 years, vast majority of which goes to the top earners and corporations. 3 trillion in spending cuts over 10 years, which are paid for by cuts to social programs (cuts to social programs would actually be more than 3 trillion because we have net spending cuts after factoring in defense spending increase). And still no balanced budget. Yeah, GOP still has some ways to go before they can turn this tax bill into a positive. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 5 minutes ago, bearrock said: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2018/02/12/white-house-budget-proposes-increase-to-defense-spending-and-major-cuts-to-safety-net-programs-but-federal-deficit-would-remain/?hpid=hp_no-name_no-name%3Apage%2Fbreaking-news-bar&utm_term=.b30e199ff03b Hmm, so 1.5 trillion in tax cuts over 10 years, vast majority of which goes to the top earners and corporations. 3 trillion in spending cuts over 10 years, which are paid for by cuts to social programs (cuts to social programs would actually be more than 3 trillion because we have net spending cuts after factoring in defense spending increase). And still no balanced budget. Yeah, GOP still has some ways to go before they can turn this tax bill into a positive. But my paycheck went up $25/month! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradeTheBeal! Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 2 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said: But my paycheck went up $25/month! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinC Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 19 minutes ago, twa said: So you are saying we should have passed the House spending bill that the Dems in the senate wouldn't pass? I agree that would have been less risky and far lower impact on deficit. I think both sides are playing politics rather than doing their jobs and thinking about appropriate economic strategy for the current position of the US economy. Its less an economic strategy we have and more a round of horse trading about who gets funding for whatever special interest they have. Now the GOP have majorities in both Houses and the White House. Its incumbent on them to bring forward sensible economic policy which can be debated and negotiated with the Dems working for changes they might want to secure votes needed to pass. So horse trading is built into the process, but its the GOP right now who define from where that starts. For a party that supposed to be about fiscal responsibility, small Government and reducing the deficit the plans they brought forward were bizzare (unless you view them as a kick back to large corporate donors and sound bites to sell to their base as we approach the 2018 midterms of course ...) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoCalMike Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 The GOP is putting into place their plan. Tax cuts and gov't spending cuts (besides Military, which usually gets increased). Bleed the gov't of revenue and then turn around and start gutting. The GOP plan is an easy sell on the surface. "Keep more of your money, shrink the bloated Gov't" It's extremely easy for the common man to be on board with that message in theory, which is why people tend to fall for it over and over. It's once you get into the details of what is being cut and/or how the gov't programs intertwine in every day life often out of necessity when the issue becomes much more gray. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Genius Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 (edited) Again, all one has to do is look at Kansas. That's exactly the GOP economics game plan. Edited February 12, 2018 by The Evil Genius 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hersh Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 6 minutes ago, The Evil Genius said: Again, all one has to do is look at Kansas. That's exactly the GOP economics game plan. I've never really thought that as a country we were in trouble. That's changed in the last two months. Between this insane fiscal policy, the pending trade wars, the ****ing over the poor and middle class and the gutting of regulations and consumer protections I think we are in serious long term trouble as a country. Throw in there the mess with immigration including attempts to slash legal immigration...I've never seen us move in such a wrong/dumb direction. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan T. Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 3 hours ago, TryTheBeal! said: Why is Keanu Reeve giving Trump a back rub? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spjunkies Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 13 minutes ago, Dan T. said: Why is Keanu Reeve giving Trump a back rub? Oh snap, I thought that was Eddie Vedder!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Genius Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 (edited) Speaking of taxes...getting crazy fed and state refund this year. Both incredibly grateful and mad (at myself for poor withholdings). I can take solace that this will be the last refund I see in many years with the new 10k limit in SALT deductions. ? Had a little over 2x that amount in 2017 SALT deductions. Edited February 12, 2018 by The Evil Genius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinC Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 Here we go. Trumps 2019 budget expected to include $1.7 trillion dollars of entitlement cuts (including medicare). http://www.redskins.com/news/article-1/Still-Rehabbing-Chris-Thompson-Optimistic-Hell-Return-To-Last-Years-Form/2fba23d3-26eb-43d0-a195-285fdb8616ec Meanwhile the amount spent by corporations who benefit from the massive corporate tax cuts is massively going on share buy backs not extra money to employees - just as anyone who was half awake and being remotely realistic knew would be the case. Also look for a big spike in M&A activity as companies use funds they are bringing back into the US not to invest in new ideas or plant but to buy competitors or vehicles to enter new markets. M&A activity tends to cost jobs not grow them and it can make balance sheets look better but does little to boost GDP. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hersh Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, MartinC said: Here we go. Trumps 2019 budget expected to include $1.7 trillion dollars of entitlement cuts (including medicare). http://www.redskins.com/news/article-1/Still-Rehabbing-Chris-Thompson-Optimistic-Hell-Return-To-Last-Years-Form/2fba23d3-26eb-43d0-a195-285fdb8616ec Meanwhile the amount spent by corporations who benefit from the massive corporate tax cuts is massively going on share buy backs not extra money to employees - just as anyone who was half awake and being remotely realistic knew would be the case. Also look for a big spike in M&A activity as companies use funds they are bringing back into the US not to invest in new ideas or plant but to buy competitors or vehicles to enter new markets. M&A activity tends to cost jobs not grow them and it can make balance sheets look better but does little to boost GDP. I'm not sure that was the link you meant to put in this post. Edited February 13, 2018 by Hersh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinC Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 8 minutes ago, Hersh said: I'm not sure that was the link you meant to put in this post. Good spot! (Though that story IS more uplifting). Try this one. https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/12/trump-budget-calls-for-renewed-effort-to-gut-obamacare.html https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/12/trump-budget-will-call-for-2-percent-reductions-in-discretionary-spending-after-2019.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hersh Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 1 hour ago, MartinC said: Good spot! (Though that story IS more uplifting). Try this one. https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/12/trump-budget-calls-for-renewed-effort-to-gut-obamacare.html https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/12/trump-budget-will-call-for-2-percent-reductions-in-discretionary-spending-after-2019.html Do you think Trump even knows what's in the budget? I don't think he has any idea other than what he gets for the wall. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinC Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 20 minutes ago, Hersh said: Do you think Trump even knows what's in the budget? I don't think he has any idea other than what he gets for the wall. I doubt he has any idea (or interest) about the detail - at best he’s read a one page summary, or more likely had someone read it to him. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LD0506 Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 11 hours ago, MartinC said: I doubt he has any idea (or interest) about the detail - at best he’s read a one page summary, or more likely had someone read it to him. Or Kelly and Kellyanne just acted it out for him with shadow puppets............ 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 12 hours ago, MartinC said: I doubt he has any idea (or interest) about the detail - at best he’s read a one page summary, or more likely had someone read it to him. I suspect he has inkling of all the pork being sliced off just for him. The rest of it... he doesn't give a damn about. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradeTheBeal! Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 On 2/11/2018 at 11:33 PM, nonniey said: I think the only states that are considering this are the three west coast states. https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/14/trump-reportedly-endorses-25-cent-hike-in-gas-tax.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nonniey Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 2 hours ago, TryTheBeal! said: https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/14/trump-reportedly-endorses-25-cent-hike-in-gas-tax.html Yep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadySkinsFan Posted February 14, 2018 Author Share Posted February 14, 2018 (edited) No new taxes? Except he didn't say that. And how much will he siphon off for his ****ing wall? That's infrastructure, right? Edited February 14, 2018 by LadySkinsFan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cooked Crack Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 2 hours ago, TryTheBeal! said: https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/14/trump-reportedly-endorses-25-cent-hike-in-gas-tax.html Watch him come out and deny he said that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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