Tax Bill

[twa]

I commend ya'll for your contributions to slow the rise in the deficit.

 

perhaps a liberal tea party is needed? 

[Cooked Crack]

3 hours ago, tshile said:

I can’t wait for certain family members to do their taxes. I’ve been waiting damn near a year to remind them of that “extra money” in their checks they were bragging about. 

Probably won't bring it up or find a way to blame Democrats.

[Larry]

41 minutes ago, Cooked Crack said:

Probably won't bring it up or find a way to blame Democrats.

 

And, when the House Dems propose reducing the deficit by repealing Trump's tax cuts, the GOP will loudly yell that the Dems are trying to raise your family's taxes. And they will believe it. 

[JCB]

In short: just like the last 40 years. Papa Bush had it sussed in the 1980 primary.

[HOF44]

My damn state taxes take up way over the 10k SALT limit.  **** Trump! **** the Republicans.  If it was going to starving or homeless or people needing medical care that can’t afford it, or hell even infrastructure.  But screw funding all these corporate stock by backs and putting the country in even more massive debt.  Which they will soon be screaming from the rooftops that the poor and SS recipients and Medicare are bankrupting the nation.   The party of fiscal conservatism my ass!!!! Just **** them all!!!

[TheGreatBuzz]

14 minutes ago, HOF44 said:

My damn state taxes take up way over the 10k SALT limit.  **** Trump! **** the Republicans.  If it was going to starving or homeless or people needing medical care that can’t afford it, or hell even infrastructure.  But screw funding all these corporate stock by backs and putting the country in even more massive debt.  Which they will soon be screaming from the rooftops that the poor and SS recipients and Medicare are bankrupting the nation.   The party of fiscal conservatism my ass!!!! Just **** them all!!!

Not sure if you heard but it's infrastructure week.

[HOF44]

2 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

Not sure if you heard but it's infrastructure week.

Don’t even get me started!!!  LOL

[LadySkinsFan]

Sorry to hear HOF 44. I don't know how it's going to affect me yet, not something I want to think about. Moving to Texas is a part of this too.

 

I think we are going to hear lots of screaming before it's over.

Edited December 3, 2018 by LadySkinsFan

[HOF44]

I’m gonna have to sell 3 or 4 bottles of bourbon to cover this.  Damn!!

[nonniey]

20 hours ago, HOF44 said:

My damn state taxes take up way over the 10k SALT limit.  **** Trump! **** the Republicans.  If it was going to starving or homeless or people needing medical care that can’t afford it, or hell even infrastructure.  But screw funding all these corporate stock by backs and putting the country in even more massive debt.  Which they will soon be screaming from the rooftops that the poor and SS recipients and Medicare are bankrupting the nation.   The party of fiscal conservatism my ass!!!! Just **** them all!!!

So you are mad at Trump because your state taxes are too high?

[HOF44]

Just now, nonniey said:

So you are mad at Trump because your state taxes are too high?

No I am pissed because now I'm paying tax on the same money twice.  Your state tax should be deductible from you gross income.   

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

39 minutes ago, nonniey said:

So you are mad at Trump because your state taxes are too high?

He's mad at the GOP because they made a budget decision to gift a trillion dollars to the people who need it least at the expense of everyone else and he's frustrated at the willful ignorance of people who intentionally remain unconcerned of this basic fact.

[tshile]

I don’t mind the salt tax cap necessarily. I understand the logic. Higher state taxes should in theory mean higher level of services from the state or city/town/county. Why should that be exempted from your federal taxes? 

 

What irritates me is the people who don’t understand basic math and argue with the rest of us that do. 

 

My personal test for whether someone is worth discussing taxes with, is to figure out if they understand the difference between a tax credit and a tax deduction. If they don’t understand that there’s no point in having the discussion. 

 

In my experience most people don’t understand the difference. 

[tshile]

Just clarification on my opinion on SALT...

 

I don't know how I feel about real estate taxes being a part of that. That's because i live in one of the richest counties in the country and our property values are super high. I haven't finished my new house (get the CO this week I think...) but based on my rough guess my taxes will be about 8k a year. It could go as high as 10k, and if the county really drops the ball appraisal wise maybe as low as 5. I'm guessing about 8k though. So i've pretty much used up my 10k SALT tax exemption and I have only looked at real estate taxes.

 

So the fact that it is purely driven by where I live, and not necessarily anything else (We have a volunteer fire department, small sheriff and police force that benefit in crime statistics because of where they are, not because they're doing an incredible job. our schools are good enough but hardly excellent. Outside of our proximity to DC, I'm struggling to find where the value is in the amount of real estate taxes I pay)

 

 

But when a county has the best school system in the country and they tax their residents for it, why should that be exempt at the federal level? You're getting something for your tax money. You're paying to have that thing. Why does that absolve you of a responsibility but not others?

 

Education might be a bad example due to Federal funding, so maybe we should talk about trash pickup? Why should taxes that buy you trash service you otherwise don't pay for be exempt? 

 

So the idea of there being a baseline of SALT taxes below which you shouldn't be taxed twice, but above which you're not longer exempt because you've voted in improvements to your area that justify the money, makes complete sense to me.

 

I don't know that 10K is the right number and I don't know that real estate should count (again, I'm essentially at the SALT cap and we haven't even discussed income, property tax, fees on things like registrations, etc.) 

 

I'm losing a **** ton in deductions because of this cap. Somewhere around 30-40k. I received a rate deduction. I get to claim some child stuff I couldn't before because caps were raised there. My napkin math says i'll likely owe a bit more than I would have but it'll be close. I guess I'll find out in a month what the correct answer is... (edit: year and month, since my taxes are all screwed up this year... didn't own a house, etc. lived in a rental while building a house. wife on maternity leave. so my taxes this year will be completely out of whack...)

 

 

edit: The counter to my view would be: So raise your taxes to pay for nicer things so your residents money that was sent to the federal government for taxes, is diverted to your local government to be directly controlled and overseen by you and your fellow residents. 

 

Republicans don't want that though they want big overlord federal government.  

Edited December 3, 2018 by tshile

[The Evil Genius]

We pay $9k easily for property tax and I don't live in SF (rather the cheaper East Bay). That amount will go up 2% maximum every year. So yeah, I get ****ed with this. The SALT cap of 10k should have been at least per person (doubled for joint filing). 

 

But it is easy to see the punitive nature of this tax "cut" though. It explicitly attacks blue state populations. And the GOP wasn't bashful about that.

Edited December 3, 2018 by The Evil Genius

[The Evil Genius]

 

I do wonder under the current tax schedule if home ownership is really worthwhile anymore.

[tshile]

9 minutes ago, The Evil Genius said:

But it is easy to see the punitive nature of this tax "cut" though. It explicitly attacks blue state populations. And the GOP wasn't bashful about that.

 

Yup. You can see the correlation. 

 

Higher taxes and more services to take care of a much larger population (and deal with how problems compound)

 

its ok their president is destroying their farm communities so they’ll be living in our blue areas using our services soon enough. 

Edited December 3, 2018 by tshile

[LadySkinsFan]

For me, as a retiree, I don't want the hassle of upkeep, maintenance, and taxes.

 

I am happily living in my new apartment, pay my rent each month, and enjoy life. If I have a problem, I call maintenance. 

 

Plus it's really quiet here, lots of rules for civility in the complex. The only thing I miss is that I can't grill on my patio.

[tshile]

7 minutes ago, The Evil Genius said:

 

I do wonder under the current tax schedule if home ownership is really worthwhile anymore.

 

Why, because they capped the tax deduction? 

 

I would think if you’re looking at the bigger picture it’s rather silly for that to be the tipping point of it being worth it. 

 

I think the same factors matter. How long you stay, buying at what part of the market, condition and direction of overall economy, condition of house vs your skills in repairing things, etc. 

 

if your taxes are that high I imagine growth and demand are a big part of your picture and are expected to continue and should outweigh it. 

 

Also the tax policy could change. Again. 

[LD0506]

[twa]

Wonder what those CEO's tax bills are?

[Larry]

47 minutes ago, twa said:

Wonder what those CEO's tax bills are?

 

Well, based on Mitt Romney's, some of them may have been paying a 4% tax rate. 

 

Although, granted, that was before the GOP cut their taxes. 

[PeterMP]

On 12/3/2018 at 3:29 PM, The Evil Genius said:

 

I do wonder under the current tax schedule if home ownership is really worthwhile anymore.

 

In terms of economics, I'm not sure it really makes sense at all.  Long term, real estate doesn't tend to appreciate more than inflation.  You get a hedge on inflation and a little bit of a break on your taxes, but that has to be partly offset by the costs of home ownership.  If you took the down payment and put it in stocks, you'll get a better return (over long period of times) and pay the lower capital gains tax rate on your earnings.

 

I've never seen anybody do the math (and partly, it will depend on where you live), but I wouldn't be surprised if financially it was ever more than a break even point (it does probably add fiscal discipline to people to put the money in every month so that might end up being a benefit).

[Larry]

I do think that for my parent's generation, home ownership was absolutely the path to retirement prosperity. 

 

Part of me also wonders if part of the advantage of that, over other investments, is because in most cases, it is the only investment that is leveraged. 

 

(But then, you also have to factor in the amount of interest paid, over 50 years). 

[Cooked Crack]

Just started on my taxes and it's looking like I'll owe at least a grand. Usually I'd end up getting money back federally and owing the state. Now I owe both. Way to go, Trump.