Tax Bill

[nonniey]

The GOP’s big tax-cut gamble appears to be paying dividends

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2018/02/01/the-gops-big-tax-cut-gamble-appears-to-be-paying-dividends/?utm_term=.6b0985d12eb4

 

     A month ago Republicans passed what was, according to some measures, the most unpopular bill in decades: their tax plan. Today, it’s looking more and more as if that was a risk well worth taking........Unlike other polls, for instance, Monmouth’s question about the tax plan doesn’t tie it to Republicans or to Trump. That suggests partisanship and Trump fatigue may have depressed support while it was the subject of intense debate, and that people might warm to it as they judge it more on its merits.

     And speaking of those merits, there’s something important about all these polls that we need to keep in mind: People still don’t seem to recognize how the tax cuts will benefit them personally. Polls have routinely shown more people expect to see their taxes increase rather than decrease, but that’s simply not what will happen......Republicans seem to be counting on Americans seeing that extra money in order for the law to become even more popular. Which isn’t a bad bet. If people are expecting their taxes to go up (36 percent) or even stay the same (32 percent) and taxes go down, that should be a pleasant surprise and could fuel more support for the bill......

[visionary]

 

 

 

[nonniey]

Yeah, that was a stupid tweet. As for the teacher being pleasantly surprised she is probably one of those that were convinced their taxes were going up (heck how many in this forum thought the same??).

[LadySkinsFan]

$1.50 a week more in the paycheck? Methinks that her tweet was sarcasm. 

 

I certainly don't want the Social Security that I paid into the system for 50 years cut to pay down the $1.5 trillion added deficit.

 

Anyone supporting this **** bill is a fool. 

 

And remember, a fool and his money are soon parted.

Edited February 4, 2018 by LadySkinsFan

[Cooked Crack]

1 minute ago, nonniey said:

Yeah, that was a stupid tweet. As for the teacher being pleasantly surprised she is probably one of those that were convinced their taxes were going up (heck how many in this forum thought the same??).

Now she's rolling in the dough. I'm sure she'll still be excited about that 1.50 when Paul Ryan and the gang talk about tackling government benefits due to increases in defecits.

[nonniey]

12 minutes ago, LadySkinsFan said:

$1.50 a week more in the paycheck? Methinks that her tweet was sarcasm. 

 

I certainly don't want the Social Security that I paid into the system for 50 years cut to pay down the $1.5 trillion added deficit.

 

Anyone supporting this **** bill is a fool. 

 

And remember, a fool and his money are soon parted.

Question do you still think your taxes are going up under this bill? Just curious. 

[LadySkinsFan]

They will get around to taxing Social Security checks sooner rather than later, so yes, I think my Federal taxes will go up at some point. After all, Social Security and Medicare are the next big target on their horizon. 

 

Right now I don't have to pay. And I am moving to Texas so no state income taxes.

 

I have worked since I was 16, am 66 now and because of a stroke can't work. So yes, color me extremely pissed.

[Hersh]

1 hour ago, nonniey said:

The GOP’s big tax-cut gamble appears to be paying dividends

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2018/02/01/the-gops-big-tax-cut-gamble-appears-to-be-paying-dividends/?utm_term=.6b0985d12eb4

 

     A month ago Republicans passed what was, according to some measures, the most unpopular bill in decades: their tax plan. Today, it’s looking more and more as if that was a risk well worth taking........Unlike other polls, for instance, Monmouth’s question about the tax plan doesn’t tie it to Republicans or to Trump. That suggests partisanship and Trump fatigue may have depressed support while it was the subject of intense debate, and that people might warm to it as they judge it more on its merits.

     And speaking of those merits, there’s something important about all these polls that we need to keep in mind: People still don’t seem to recognize how the tax cuts will benefit them personally. Polls have routinely shown more people expect to see their taxes increase rather than decrease, but that’s simply not what will happen......Republicans seem to be counting on Americans seeing that extra money in order for the law to become even more popular. Which isn’t a bad bet. If people are expecting their taxes to go up (36 percent) or even stay the same (32 percent) and taxes go down, that should be a pleasant surprise and could fuel more support for the bill......

 

Well in that case, it wasn't utterly stupid to pass a giant tax cut in the middle of a relatively strong economic period. Just kidding. Ultimately a tax cut is always going to be enjoyed when people get that first bit of extra money in a vacuum. Of course all the negative impacts of this bill will be felt down the road as things like infrastructure doesn't get paid for and the deficit/debt balloon. I mean, any guesses what it's going to take to get remotely close to a balanced budget let alone pay down debt, spend another 3-4 trillion required for infrastructure and cover entitlement program costs. 

[LD0506]

Arrogance, blind unfettered arrogance, that's all they've ever needed

[twa]

39 minutes ago, LadySkinsFan said:

They will get around to taxing Social Security checks sooner rather than later, so yes, I think my Federal taxes will go up at some point. After all, Social Security and Medicare are the next big target on their horizon. 

 

Right now I don't have to pay. And I am moving to Texas so no state income taxes.

 

I have worked since I was 16, am 66 now and because of a stroke can't work. So yes, color me extremely pissed.

 

What makes you think that?

Retirement accounts and such would be targeted first.(and about as popular)

Trimming benefits or changing qualifications would occur first.

 

cutting the fat is needed, but not politically acceptable.

 

add

not sure of your situation but this might help

https://smartasset.com/retirement/is-social-security-income-taxable

 

the tax games never end.

Edited February 4, 2018 by twa

[tshile]

3 hours ago, nonniey said:

The GOP’s big tax-cut gamble appears to be paying dividends

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2018/02/01/the-gops-big-tax-cut-gamble-appears-to-be-paying-dividends/?utm_term=.6b0985d12eb4

 

That's great.

Meanwhile we're approaching the debt ceiling faster than expected because revenue is down and the cdc has begun shutting down operations overseas to detect, treat, and stop outbreaks before someone gets on a plane and comes here. They're losing inroads with local areas, training, and Infrastructure that took years and a lot of money to build up. 

 

All for a plan that requires steady 3% growth to break even, something we've not seen in quite a while.

 

Run by a group with no real plan to wisely cut spending.

 

Extra money in a pay check might fool the dumb ones, but the rest of us are paying attention to the bigger picture.

2 hours ago, Hersh said:

Well in that case, it wasn't utterly stupid to pass a giant tax cut in the middle of a relatively strong economic period.

This is what irritates me the most. I dont know that it was strong but it was certainly stable and on track.

 

Fiscally responsible people would see this as a great time to pay down debt so the next crisis can be handled.

 

Most people who claim to be conservatives appear to be frauds.

[Hersh]

7 minutes ago, tshile said:

 

That's great.

Meanwhile we're approaching the debt ceiling faster than expected because revenue is down and the cdc has begun shutting down operations overseas to detect, treat, and stop outbreaks before someone gets on a plane and comes here. They're losing inroads with local areas, training, and Infrastructure that took years and a lot of money to build up. 

 

All for a plan that requires steady 3% growth to break even, something we've not seen in quite a while.

 

Run by a group with no real plan to wisely cut spending.

 

Extra money in a pay check might fool the dumb ones, but the rest of us are paying attention to the bigger picture.

This is what irritates me the most. I dont know that it was strong but it was certainly stable and on track.

 

Fiscally responsible people would see this as a great time to pay down debt so the next crisis can be handled.

 

Most people who claim to be conservatives appear to be frauds.

 

A revenue neutral business tax reform bill and deciding to spend an additional $200 billion a year to rebuild this country...nah, let's give the rich giant tax cuts. 

[bearrock]

I do think @nonniey has a good point in that some of the opposition to the tax cut oversold the negative impact.  There was lot to accurately criticize the tax cut for and criticizing it based on false claims was wrong, both politically and morally.

 

The problem that I see for the GOP is two folds.  One, the benefit from the tax cut that lot of the average Americans see may be too paltry to make that much of a difference.  Their opinion of the tax cut may improve from really bad to something a bit better, but I think lot of Americans still see the fundamental issue with the tax cut being that it is too top heavy.

 

Second, improved opinion of the tax cut isn't really going to save the president or GOP from a likely mid term shellacking.  It's not like the tax cut dragged down a popular president or a popular party.  Even before the tax cut, the approval rating was bad and they were getting beat in previously uncompetitive local races.  

[tshile]

28 minutes ago, bearrock said:

I do think @nonniey has a good point in that some of the opposition to the tax cut oversold the negative impact. 

 

When you look at an individual's tax burden, sure.

 

But when you zoom out to the level of funding the government and then cutting the knees out of the affordable care act, it wasn't oversold at all.

 

Selling this tax bill based on paychecks is a joke, and it's exactly what the gop wants you to look at because the rest of the picture is very ugly.

 

They have no plan to cut spending, no plan to make aca better or replace it with something better, the only economic stimulus they seem to be trying to provide is by cutting taxes and regulations, and nothing has been done to significantly invest in an aging infrastructure.

 

Sorry, it wasn't oversold if you were paying attention to more than just your own paycheck.

 

And we're just scratching the surface because the gop is doing serious damage to: epa, education, state department, justice department, cdc, hhs, and a number of other departments... by sending them into chaos with new leadership that wants to dismantle the agency they're in charge of (or is too incompetent to lead them), and/or is destroying valuable progress that cost us money and time and we'll have to spend more money and time to just make up for the damage done.

 

All of that is going to cost an amount of money we can't calculate right now. 

 

And some of it is going to cost us something other than money.

 

Edited February 4, 2018 by tshile

[twa]

Just now, tshile said:

 

 

 

All of that is going to cost an amount of money we can't calculate right now. 

 

And some of it is going to cost us something other than money.

 

 

Or it could save us money or other things.

 

Of course if ya just replace it maybe not.

 

Cutting spending can be fun....shall we begin?(or are those other than money costs too high)

[tshile]

2 minutes ago, twa said:

 

Or it could save us money or other things.

 

Of course if ya just replace it maybe not.

 

Cutting spending can be fun....shall we begin?(or are those other than money costs too high)

You're pretty much backing up my point.

 

They will have to cut spending to make it work. They restrained the government with the goal of figuring the rest out later.

 

That's the way stupid people do things.

 

[twa]

Looking at our previous trajectory those doing it differently don't look so bright.

 

Skoal

[nonniey]

2 hours ago, twa said:

 

........

 

Cutting spending can be fun....

How could we know that? I don't seem to recall ever doing that.

[Larry]

3 hours ago, tshile said:

You're pretty much backing up my point.

 

They will have to cut spending to make it work. They restrained the government with the goal of figuring the rest out later.

 

That's the way stupid people do things.

 

 

People keep acting like cutting spending is some unpleasant thing that will reluctantly have to be done, as an unfortunate side effect of this tax cut. 

 

I think its pretty clear that exploding the deficit is an intended consequence of the tax cut. They intend to explode the deficit, and then announce that the only method they will accept, for reducing it, is to cut SS and Medicare. 

[twa]

2 hours ago, nonniey said:

How could we know that? I don't seem to recall ever doing that.

 

Surely you remember the draconian cuts that were made to the rate of growth.

That is like almost the same thing.

[tshile]

7 hours ago, twa said:

Looking at our previous trajectory those doing it differently don't look so bright.

 

Skoal

I'm not surprised you'd try to put dealing with a financial industry and housing market crisis on the same level as tax cuts.

 

[Larry]

1 hour ago, tshile said:

I'm not surprised you'd try to put dealing with a financial industry and housing market crisis on the same level as tax cuts.

 

 

Actually, what he's trying to do is to argue that doubling the federal deficit in a single year makes cutting said deficit in half "look not very bright". 

 

In short, he doesn't care if everybody knows he's a troll. 

Edited February 4, 2018 by Larry

[twa]

how about debt?

https://www.thebalance.com/us-debt-by-president-by-dollar-and-percent-3306296

 

we really need to wait till next year to judge Trumps deficit don't we?

[The Evil Genius]

13 hours ago, nonniey said:

Yeah, that was a stupid tweet. As for the teacher being pleasantly surprised she is probably one of those that were convinced their taxes were going up (heck how many in this forum thought the same??).

 

13 hours ago, nonniey said:

Question do you still think your taxes are going up under this bill? Just curious. 

 

We will be losing $10k+ in SALT deductions. So yeah, they are going up and that amount is more than getting $100 a month extra.

 

Anyone from a "high" state income tax state that owns property too in probably in a similar boat as us.

 

 

Edited February 4, 2018 by The Evil Genius

[tshile]

31 minutes ago, twa said:

how about debt?

https://www.thebalance.com/us-debt-by-president-by-dollar-and-percent-3306296

 

we really need to wait till next year to judge Trumps deficit don't we?

So you're going to compare 8 years of dealing with a financial and housing crisis with global impacts, to taking over an economy with solid Gdp growth and low unemployment?

 

Are you also going to continue to ignore revenue shortfalls currently in place?

 

The problem with your arguments is that your audience isn't dumb enough to accept them. Your arguments require ignoring context and the big picture, to accept.

32 minutes ago, The Evil Genius said:

 

 

We will be losing $10k+ in SALT deductions. So yeah, they are going up and that amount is more than getting $100 a month extra.

 

Anyone from a "high" state income tax state that owns property too in probably in a similar boat as us.

 

 

 

Yup.

 

I am dying to hear the incredibly basic tax-calculator crowd tell me different though. 

 

Anyone who's knowledgeable at least on their own taxes understands how dumb their argument is.