Tax Bill

[LadySkinsFan]

No, they won't cut in 2017. They will wait until 2018. This is Ryan's wet dream, to cut Social Security and Medicare. 

[LadySkinsFan]

Here is another result of the tax bill and it's supposed job creation myth.

 

AT&T, after touting the tax bill, Trump, and Republicans, is starting to lay off/fire workers. A bunch in Southern states and Texas. Also they own DirecTV and are trying to buy Time Warner.

 

https://www.yahoo.com/news/t-announces-thousands-layoffs-firings-205347737.html

 

[Popeman38]

On 12/24/2017 at 11:10 PM, LadySkinsFan said:

Here is another result of the tax bill and it's supposed job creation myth.

 

AT&T, after touting the tax bill, Trump, and Republicans, is starting to lay off/fire workers. A bunch in Southern states and Texas. Also they own DirecTV and are trying to buy Time Warner.

 

https://www.yahoo.com/news/t-announces-thousands-layoffs-firings-205347737.html

 

This is wrong.  These job cuts had been planned well in advance of the tax bill being signed.  Anyone who works in telecom knows there are planned RIFs throughout the  year.  AT&T announced planned cuts in 2018 back in September.  Hell, the article you link says that the layoffs were communicated to the affected employees on 12/16.  In most of these layoffs, the company pays you a predetermined amount (where I work it is 2 weeks for every year of service, capped at 26 weeks).  There will likely be job cuts at AT&T every few months throughout 2018, just like at Verizon, and just like at CenturyLink.  It's part of the business, unfortunately.  

[Weganator]

 

Good news! Looks like they will be permanent cuts after all. Unless all of the complaints about it "only being 10 years"  now are grandstanding and not because they couldn't get the 9 more votes at that duration.

[No Excuses]

7 minutes ago, Weganator said:

 

Good news! Looks like they will be permanent cuts after all. Unless all of the complaints about it "only being 10 years"  now are grandstanding and not because they couldn't get the 9 more votes at that duration.

 

I am fairly certain they can't legislate this the way Ted Cruz is pretending. The middle class tax cuts weren't permanent for budgetary reasons. You can't go back and wave a magic pixie wand and make them permanent without seriously disrupting the math behind the overall tax cut.

Edited December 27, 2017 by No Excuses

[Burgold]

39 minutes ago, No Excuses said:

 

I am fairly certain they can't legislate this the way Ted Cruz is pretending. The middle class tax cuts weren't permanent for budgetary reasons. You can't go back and wave a magic pixie wand and make them permanent without seriously disrupting the math behind the overall tax cut.

Not to mention, one of the problems was that it was a payoff for the wealthy. The biggest problem was that it was tax reform, but a a tax cut which was designed to massively increase both the deficit and the debt while doing almost nothing to encourage growth or future prosperity. The GOP scheme is nothing but a short term money grab.

4 hours ago, Popeman38 said:

This is wrong.  These job cuts had been planned well in advance of the tax bill being signed.  Anyone who works in telecom knows there are planned RIFs throughout the  year.  AT&T announced planned cuts in 2018 back in September.  Hell, the article you link says that the layoffs were communicated to the affected employees on 12/16.  In most of these layoffs, the company pays you a predetermined amount (where I work it is 2 weeks for every year of service, capped at 26 weeks).  There will likely be job cuts at AT&T every few months throughout 2018, just like at Verizon, and just like at CenturyLink.  It's part of the business, unfortunately.  

This is true. On the other hand, the tax bill did nothing to make them change their mind, halt or delay their plans, or institute any kind of turnaround.

[The Evil Genius]

What is the purpose of the GOP capping SALT deductions at 10k?

[Weganator]

44 minutes ago, No Excuses said:

 

I am fairly certain they can't legislate this the way Ted Cruz is pretending. The middle class tax cuts weren't permanent for budgetary reasons. You can't go back and wave a magic pixie wand and make them permanent without seriously disrupting the math behind the overall tax cut.

It was because legislation that cbo'd at more than 1.5T needed 60 votes. Expiring at 10 yrs met that.

 

I don't know how rules would apply with it being a separate piece of legislation, but it only takes 9 Dems crossing the aisle to do that at worst. And with how it's being bemoaned by them it would be interesting to watch them put their foots in their mouths by voting against it.

[Weganator]

6 minutes ago, The Evil Genius said:

What is the purpose of the GOP capping SALT deductions at 10k?

Increases the cost of government on those receiving the government. Increasing the price of a good / service reduces demand.

 

Put another way, unless the policies those states have in place make tax payers lives better by a good enough margin to justify the cost, citizens will demand change or move.

Edited December 27, 2017 by Weganator

[No Excuses]

40 minutes ago, Weganator said:

It was because legislation that cbo'd at more than 1.5T needed 60 votes. Expiring at 10 yrs met that.

 

I don't know how rules would apply with it being a separate piece of legislation, but it only takes 9 Dems crossing the aisle to do that at worst. And with how it's being bemoaned by them it would be interesting to watch them put their foots in their mouths by voting against it.

 

This makes no sense.

 

I am almost sure they can't just bring this individual legislation forward without seriously altering other parts of the tax code. There is no magic pixie wand that allows middle class tax cuts to be permanent without alterations to the rest of the tax code.

 

What you are talking about is rewriting the GOP tax plan that was just passed.

 

At which point, one has to ask, what the **** was stopping them from doing this in the first place. The clear answer is that the intention of this tax code was not a tax break for the middle class.

Edited December 27, 2017 by No Excuses

[LadySkinsFan]

13 minutes ago, The Evil Genius said:

What is the purpose of the GOP capping SALT deductions at 10k?

 

They had to give something to buy Susan Collins' vote, but they couldn't give every dollar of SALT. Ten thousand dollars is a nice round number that was pulled out of the hat.

Edited December 27, 2017 by LadySkinsFan

[The Evil Genius]

5 minutes ago, LadySkinsFan said:

 

They had to give something to buy Susan Collins' vote, but they couldn't give every dollar of SALT. Ten thousand dollars is a nice round number that was pulled out of the hat.

 

But why is it the same cap for individual and joint returns?

Edited December 27, 2017 by The Evil Genius

[LadySkinsFan]

1 minute ago, The Evil Genius said:

 

But why is it the same cap for individual and joint returns?

 

Because...Republicans.

[Weganator]

4 minutes ago, The Evil Genius said:

 

But why is it the same cap for individual and joint returns?

Some states don't differentiate between individual and joint rates because it favors traditional families or some BS. DC follows this, not sure about other states rates.

[The Evil Genius]

6 minutes ago, Weganator said:

Some states don't differentiate between individual and joint rates because it favors traditional families or some BS. DC follows this, not sure about other states rates.

 

What are you talking about? I'm talking about the new 10k cap for SALT deductions that the GOP will institute for the Federal tax return.

 

If the idea is that they should be limited, why is it the same limit for both individuals and joint returns? Shouldnt it really be tied to the # of filers on a return? Otherwise, it's punitive for 2 income families. It is, like I said, not a tax cut for a lot us, as some would like to believe.

Edited December 27, 2017 by The Evil Genius

[Weganator]

3 minutes ago, The Evil Genius said:

 

What are you talking about? I'm talking about the new 10k cap for SALT deductions that the GOP will institute for the Federal tax return.

 

If the idea is that they should be limited, why is it the same limit for both individuals and joint returns? Shouldnt it really be tied to the # of filers on a return? Otherwise, it's punitive for 2 income families. It is, like I said, not a tax cut for a lot us, as some would like to believe.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bankrate.com/finance/taxes/state-taxes-washington-d-c.aspx/amp/

 

DC has the same brackets for individual and joint filers.. it is punitive.

[LadySkinsFan]

Of course it's punative. Give them just enough to think that they have something, but not enough to be really meaningful.

 

I still say that maybe people will see a bit more in their paychecks, but when it comes tax time in 2019 to file the 2018 returns, wanna bet that they'll have to pay more? That's another aspect of the tax scam bill.

[The Evil Genius]

Just now, Weganator said:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bankrate.com/finance/taxes/state-taxes-washington-d-c.aspx/amp/

 

DC has the same brackets for individual and joint filers.. it is punitive.

 

But that does nothing to explain why the GOP wants to cap the SALT deduction at 10k. 

[Weganator]

14 minutes ago, The Evil Genius said:

 

But that does nothing to explain why the GOP wants to cap the SALT deduction at 10k. 

Because not every state has varying rates for individual and joint filers was my point. But yes, the particular number is arbitrary, but at least semi means tested.

 

You need to make 170k in order to pay 10k in CA state taxes. Homeowners there could get pretty shafted since it eats into that number.

Edited December 27, 2017 by Weganator

[The Evil Genius]

Just now, Weganator said:

Because not every state has varying rates for individual and joint filers was my point.

 

But why cap it at all? Especially if you are trying to sell it as tax cuts?

[tshile]

1 hour ago, Weganator said:

 

Good news! Looks like they will be permanent cuts after all. Unless all of the complaints about it "only being 10 years"  now are grandstanding and not because they couldn't get the 9 more votes at that duration.

 

This is advocating for fiscal irresponsibility.

 

You don't get around the issue of paying for the tax cuts (which is why they end in 10 years) by just saying screw having to pay for it.

 

[HOF44]

34 minutes ago, The Evil Genius said:

What is the purpose of the GOP capping SALT deductions at 10k?

My guess is they want a number that will still end up with most people using the standard deduction and be unable to really see any gains by itemizing.  So it looks like it’s doing something but actually does nothing. 

[Weganator]

1 minute ago, The Evil Genius said:

 

But why cap it at all? Especially if you are trying to sell it as tax cuts?

 

Quote

Increases the cost of government on those receiving the government. Increasing the price of a good / service reduces demand.

 

Put another way, unless the policies those states have in place make tax payers lives better by a good enough margin to justify the cost, citizens will demand change or move

 

[TradeTheBeal!]

[tshile]

Just now, The Evil Genius said:

 

But why cap it at all? Especially if you are trying to sell it as tax cuts

 

 

Well, there's the obvious stick it to the wealthy (blue) areas thought.

 

There's also the thought - why should I pay more in taxes to the federal government than you, when your money is going to your state government? You're getting things for that money (at the state level) and I'm not (at the state level.) So you're getting stuff and not paying federal taxes on the money.

 

The obvious counter - get your state politicians to be more creative with their taxes so that money does go to your state instead of the federal government.

 

The thought on capping them isn't necessarily wrong. I don't know that 10k is an appropriate ammount.

 

And just FYI -  the salt tax cap is not good for me personally. I would have expected to itemize 40+k in deductions for my 2018 year (for filing in April 2019.) The way they've crafted this bill I'll be taking a standard deduction. Salt was a huge portion of our deductions.