Tax Bill

[nonniey]

14 minutes ago, The Evil Genius said:

 

What are you talking about? I'm talking about the new 10k cap for SALT deductions that the GOP will institute for the Federal tax return.

 

If the idea is that they should be limited, why is it the same limit for both individuals and joint returns? Shouldnt it really be tied to the # of filers on a return? Otherwise, it's punitive for 2 income families. It is, like I said, not a tax cut for a lot us, as some would like to believe.

I agree with you on this. In almost every aspect rates/deductions etc get double or more when filed as joint vice single filers. Joint returns should be at least 20K imo or single returns 5K. One or the other.

[HOF44]

Also the Rep mantra has always been income should not be taxed twice.  It’s  like bizzaro world.  Tax all you want and be damned the deficits we are the Republicans!!  WTF??

[bearrock]

2 hours ago, Weganator said:

 

Good news! Looks like they will be permanent cuts after all. Unless all of the complaints about it "only being 10 years"  now are grandstanding and not because they couldn't get the 9 more votes at that duration.

So the GOP is ok with ballooning the deficit if its for the right reasons?  Where was that stance during the grand bargain? (Which would have been deficit neutral I think?)

 

Well, I wonder if GOP thinks social safety net programs are at least as worthy as a tax cut.

 

How about a deal?  No reduction in social programs in exchange for making individual tax cuts permanent.

 

Also, why do we give salt deductions?  Maybe because liberal blue states with high salt give money to the federal government while most of red states with low salt are net takers?  

Edited December 27, 2017 by bearrock

[LadySkinsFan]

Republicans used to argue that paying taxes on the same income was anathema. No, not so much and not sacrosanct. Well, only 10k.

[tshile]

30 minutes ago, bearrock said:

Also, why do we give salt deductions?

I think this question is actually worth exploring in more depth.

 

I don't think it'll change my opinion that salt should be uncapped or have a very high cap - like say, 75k... but I think there's a worthy argument that salt deductions is diverting money from the federal government and maybe that's not fair/good/etc

 

If California uses a state tax to protect the western brown cricket, then X% is reduced from the federal revenue stream. Is that fair to someone on Montana that California's love for the western brown cricket has burdened the federal tax revenue stream?

 

maybe we shouldn't allow deductions for real estate taxes. Maybe it would be good to discourage highly expensive areas and cause growth to move outside those areas.

 

Not saying I think those, they're just some random ideas on salt tax deductions without having put a lot of thought into it.

[HOF44]

18 minutes ago, tshile said:

I think this question is actually worth exploring in more depth.

 

I don't think it'll change my opinion that salt should be uncapped or have a very high cap - like say, 75k... but I think there's a worthy argument that salt deductions is diverting money from the federal government and maybe that's not fair/good/etc

 

If California uses a state tax to protect the western brown cricket, then X% is reduced from the federal revenue stream. Is that fair to someone on Montana that California's love for the western brown cricket has burdened the federal tax revenue stream?

.

If you go down that path let’s say Montana is given more in federal dollars than they pay.  Should California 

have to fund them because they don’t raise enough revenue themselves?  Complicated issue with a lot of facets. 

Edited December 28, 2017 by HOF44

[tshile]

19 minutes ago, HOF44 said:

If you go down that path let’s say Montana is given more in federal dollars than they pay.  Should California 

have to fund them because they don’t raise enough revenue themselves?  Complicated issue with a lot of facets. 

Definitely.

 

Why federal tax dollars go where is certainly an interesting aspect of it.

 

I'm all about States rights/control, and not in the racist/slavery way.

 

If California gave less to other states maybe they can lower their state taxes and lower the amount double taxed

Edited December 28, 2017 by tshile

[twa]

1 hour ago, LadySkinsFan said:

Of course it's punative. \

 

Why not progressive?

If my wife was bringing in money I'd expect to pay more.

[bearrock]

6 minutes ago, tshile said:

Definitely.

 

Why federal tax dollars go where is certainly an interesting aspect of it.

 

I'm all about States rights/control, and not in the racist/slavery way.

 

If California gave less to other states maybe they can lower their state taxes and lower the amount double taxed

I think your initial question is fair, what does SALT deduction accomplish and does it do it well.  My frustration was more born out of the transparent targetting by the GOP of blue states, but it was poorly worded.

[Larry]

5 hours ago, bearrock said:

So the GOP is ok with ballooning the deficit if its for the right reasons?

 

You new around here?  

5 hours ago, bearrock said:

Well, I wonder if GOP thinks social safety net programs are at least as worthy as a tax cut.

 

Thanks.  You answered the question.  

[visionary]

 

[LadySkinsFan]

Rubio is a loon right along with the rest of them. Easily bought apparently.

[NoCalMike]

There needs to be a GOP version of "Kids Say the Darndest Things" that features an audio/video reel of instances where the GOP accidentally tell the truth about their legislation.

[No Excuses]

Jellyfish Rubio is maybe the most worthless person in Congress.

 

Literally everyone* who has followed this scam from the start knows that the intention of this tax bill was a transfer of wealth to corporations and corporate executives. 

 

*excludes people like nonniey who still want to tell us that this tax bill is somehow crafted to help the middle class.

[NoCalMike]

Rubio quote edited for accuracy, "This Tax Bill does everything for the wealthy & corporations the opposition party said it would, that all of us denied it would"

[The Evil Genius]

The GOP tax bill is the real life version of the underwear gnomes profit scheme in South Park.

 

Phase 2 is just blank...

 

 

[LadySkinsFan]

Phase 2 is obliterating the social safety net.  It will be interesting to see how soon Ryan introduces legislation to gut the very programs that he benefited from. 

 

May they all rot in the Hell they supposedly believe in. 

 

WWJD?  Not this.

[tshile]

Rubio does this dumb stuff all the time

 

Before a bill he takes a principled stance, then vote for it anyway

After the bill he talks about the bad things

 

Push come to shove he falls in line when told.

 

He has no spine and is phony.

 

[No Excuses]

5 minutes ago, tshile said:

Rubio does this dumb stuff all the time

 

Before a bill he takes a principled stance, then vote for it anyway

After the bill he talks about the bad things

 

Push come to shove he falls in line when told.

 

He has no spine and is phony.

 

 

He absolutely roasted Rex Tillerson during his confirmation hearing.

 

And then voted for him anyways.

 

The only thing I have enjoyed about Trump entering politics is how he depantsted Rubio. 

Edited December 29, 2017 by No Excuses

[LD0506]

[killerbee99]

Moron.......

[visionary]

 

[The Evil Genius]

Looks like states are looking at changing the way SALT are collected. One idea in California that is being floated right now is for the state to setup a charity find and have taxpayers elect to send money above 10k to it. This making all SALT tax deductible since donations do not get capped.

 

https://www.curbed.com/platform/amp/2018/1/5/16855682/california-trump-salt-deduction-cap

[nonniey]

4 minutes ago, The Evil Genius said:

Looks like states are looking at changing the way SALT are collected. One idea in California that is being floated right now is for the state to setup a charity find and have taxpayers elect to send money above 10k to it. This making all SALT tax deductible since donations do not get capped.

 

https://www.curbed.com/platform/amp/2018/1/5/16855682/california-trump-salt-deduction-cap

Well I think they may not be able to limit which charity the money goes to from their citizens (if they do it would be easy to prove in court it is really a tax).  

Edited January 6, 2018 by nonniey

[Larry]

1 hour ago, nonniey said:

Well I think they may not be able to limit which charity the money goes to from their citizens (if they do it would be easy to prove in court it is really a tax).  

 

Heck with there only being one "charity", the fact that it's mandatory makes it a tax. 

 

However, a possible idea to run past the lawyers:

 

Let's say that Predicto owes California $25,000 in taxes. 

 

What happens if California sets up California Charity, and makes any money donated a100% tax credit?

 

Now, Predicto can pay $25,000 to the California IRS. (And $10,000 of it will be deductible). 

 

OR, he can pay $15,000 to California Charity. (And take a $15,000 federal deduction for charitable contribution).  AND a $15,000 California tax credit, reducing his California taxes to $10,000 (fully deductible on his fed taxes).