Tax Bill

[DogofWar1]

Dems won't do payback, at least not in the fashion described above.  Rather Dems will try to re-implement gutted programs and removed tax credits, while trying to raise taxes on the rich who made out like bandits.

 

Naturally both of those will be strongly opposed because 1) OMG THE DEBT, and 2) OMG you want to raise taxes on the job creators!?

 

Double points if we're in a recession, and Triple points as to issue 2, since they'll double down hard on the job creator label to protect the money of the wealthy throughout a recession.

[LadySkinsFan]

All I can say is that I am glad I am near the end of my life. I can't stress enough how much I hate the Republicans.

[Predicto]

17 minutes ago, tshile said:

Gov't should spend and lower taxes (accumulate debt) during bad times and pay down debt and raise revenue (higher taxes) to invest in the country during good times.

 

Think back to the Obama years and the Republican platofmr (austerity, "belt tightening" )

 

They're as wrong as you can be on government spending, debt and taxes as one could possibly be.

 

Some of them because they're shills for rich people. Others because they're stupid.

 

They think the government should run like a household even though the only similarity is they both use the terms budget, debt, and investing.

 

 

The name John Maynard Keynes is absolute poison to conservatives, even though he is by far the greatest economist who ever lived and his principles have been proven and reproven, over and over.   

[The Sisko]

55 minutes ago, Larry said:

 

Or because they realize that "I'll match your cuts that harm Americans with more cuts that harm Americans" is nothing more than doing what the Republicans want, but allowing them to blame Democrats for it.  

 

If you’re going to play the game, you’ve got to be smart about it. The GOP only needs a vote or two to squeak it through or, more likely they’ll have the votes and will want it for political cover, as you describe. However, for the Dems, the party would officially condemn the cuts while a few rogue elements, AKA sacrificial lambs from red states that probably weren’t going to win re-election anyway, break with the party to try to get re-elected.

 

Even if they do get blamed, Cletus wasn’t going to vote for the Dems anyway and they will have helped depopulate areas that don’t and will never support them. If you can’t change the gerrymandered map, make their base move into areas not planned for in the gerrymandering. More importantly, it should SHOW them they’re the welfare queens they’re always whining about, both the deadbeats and the rural well off who will be just as deprived if their local Piggly Wiggly and hospital go under. Maybe then they’ll think more carefully about the idea that we’re all in it together. However even if as I expect, they don’t figure it out, I just want to see them suffer because they richly deserve it. The political stuff is just icing on the cake.

Edited December 16, 2017 by The Sisko

[visionary]

 

 

 

 

 

[LD0506]

Christ on a crutch Susan, how ****ing gullible ARE you??!? I swear you could kidnap her by telegram...................

[Larry]

Just trying to figure out what kind of deal there could be, that they can't just put in the bill, before she votes for it. 

 

I assume its possible that it's not some kind of crooked. But that's where my mind goes. 

[Bozo the kKklown]

Quote

WASHINGTON, D.C. / GENEVA (15 December 2017) – The United States, one of the world’s richest nations and the “land of opportunity”, is fast becoming a champion of inequality, according to the United Nations Special Rapporteur on extreme poverty and human rights, Philip Alston.

Entrenched poverty will be made far worse by policies being proposed by the Trump Administration, warned Philip Alston in a statement after a two-week fact-finding mission to California, Alabama, Georgia, West Virginia and Washington, D.C., as well as Puerto Rico.

“The American Dream is rapidly becoming the American Illusion, as the United States now has the lowest rate of social mobility of any of the rich countries,” said the independent human rights expert appointed by the UN Human Rights Council to look at poverty and human rights in countries around the world.

 

“American exceptionalism was a constant theme in my conversations.  But instead of realizing its founders’ admirable commitments, today’s United States has proved itself to be exceptional in far more problematic ways that are shockingly at odds with its immense wealth and its founding commitment to human rights.

 

“There is no other developed country where so many voters are disenfranchised and where so few poor voters even care to go to the polls, and where ordinary voters ultimately have so little impact on political outcomes. There are no other developed countries in which so many citizens are behind bars.”

The Special Rapporteur continued: “I have been struck by the extent to which caricatured narratives about the purported innate differences between rich and poor have been sold to the electorate by some politicians and media, and have been allowed to define the debate.

 

The rich are industrious, entrepreneurial, patriotic and the drivers of economic success. The poor are wasters, losers and scammers.

http://www.ohchr.org/EN/NewsEvents/Pages/DisplayNews.aspx?NewsID=22546&LangID=E

[NoCalMike]

I've always looked at moving out America as alarmist hyperbole, but I find myself flirting with the idea of at least looking into my options just in case.  I am just shy of 40, married, with two young daughters.  I am holding out hope that because of the rapidly changing demographics, this nonsense is going to come to an end soon, but I fear there will new ways to cheat the system to make sure the system stays rigged despite growing public opposition.  Exactly where would I move? I have no idea as like I said I've never even been one to look into such things. 

 

And honestly, as much as I see the trends heading the wrong way, I don't think I will feel the brunt of them in my lifetime. If I love another 30-40 years I think I will make it to my deathbed ok, but this is more about setting up my children and their children with a better chance to succeed.

[LadySkinsFan]

I fully expect my daughter and myself to feel this next year and beyond, until Democrats once are once again in control to fix this ****.

[twa]

Just now, LadySkinsFan said:

I fully expect my daughter and myself to feel this next year and beyond, until Democrats once are once again in control to fix this ****.

 

The Dems put us here 

[tshile]

Scandinavian countries or central american/caribean is where I'd go.

 

Trade offs between the two.

 

 

[visionary]

 

 

Edited December 17, 2017 by visionary

[LD0506]

Calling this a tax bill is just so................so......... hell, I don't even know what to say, this is beyond insanity. They have admitted themselves that this is not about a tax break for anyone middle or lower, the entire justification and explanation for this is exactly the same as a wishing well, you throw money away and hope that somehow, somewhere you get something out of it. This "logic" appeals to rubes who think frittering their mortgage payment away on Powerball tickets is a good plan, 'cuz "when we hit we pay off the doublewide Lurleen!", but to anyone beyond a second grade math level, it's insane. IMO the sole result is that Wall Street rakes in most of that T+ and pretends that means the economy is working. Their plan is crafted to target functioning states that make theirs look bad in comparison, and shuffle the blame on down the road to someone else but the most anyone can really hope for here is that their neighbors gets royally ****ed and they dodge the bullet, there simply is no other payoff. If you really don't see that the overwhelming majority of cash flow will be OFFshore into the Caymans et. al. instead of luring any back, then sorry to tell you, you're a dumbass.

[skinsmarydu]

17 hours ago, NoCalMike said:

I've always looked at moving out America as alarmist hyperbole, but I find myself flirting with the idea of at least looking into my options just in case.  I am just shy of 40, married, with two young daughters.

I have a British co-worker, former Marine, scars down half of his arm from almost having had it blown off.  He went back for about the last nine months, but he's married to an American, her college apps over there weren't working out, so he came back. 

I asked him why, politically, when things are absolutely more expensive and, well, just flat-out stupid.  He's very liberal, so there's that. 

But then Wednesday morning, he came in & gave me the biggest high-five with a UK-accented "AlaBAMA!"    Just knowing that someone from somewhere else is willing to come here and help make a change (he's got a Ga driver's license and therefore registered to vote ), it gives me just a smidgeon of hope.

[visionary]

 

 

 

Edited December 17, 2017 by visionary

[Isifhan]

Cool bribery is lawful now.

[twa]

20 minutes ago, Isifhan said:

Cool bribery is lawful now.

 

Been lawful for congress critters, certainly was used for ACA

[TheGreatBuzz]

1 hour ago, twa said:

 

Been lawful for congress critters, certainly was used for ACA

This sadly a true statement by TWA (one of few).  Though throwing in the ACA was poor form.  While it is true, the same can be said about pretty much every piece of legislation in the history of forever.

[Hersh]

1 minute ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

This sadly a true statement by TWA (one of few).  Though throwing in the ACA was poor form.  While it is true, the same can be said about pretty much every piece of legislation in the history of forever.

 

One of the biggest differences is that most congressmen would get pork projects for their constituents or something for their state as opposed to what is going on here. 

[TheGreatBuzz]

1 minute ago, Hersh said:

 

One of the biggest differences is that most congressmen would get pork projects for their constituents or something for their state as opposed to what is going on here. 

Doesnt change the fact that it is essentially a bribe.

[visionary]

Getting stuff for constituents is kind of part of the job though.  Getting personal kickbacks definitely isn't.

[Hersh]

Just now, TheGreatBuzz said:

Doesnt change the fact that it is essentially a bribe.

 

It’s a representative government and a rep/Senator doing something for their district/State isn’t a big deal to me. Now doing something for a handful of rich donors is distinct difference to me. Getting rid pork barrel projects was only an optics thing but not really good for government.

[visionary]

 

[LadySkinsFan]

Such lies and bull**** from all these guys.